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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Yuri Wayfare
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
261
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Posted - 2013.02.18 09:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
First of all, best of luck on your campaign!
I'd like to grill you a bit about this:
Ripard Teg wrote:EVE players -- all EVE players! -- should be encouraged to play in groups but not forced to do so, or punished if they do not wish to do so.
(emphasis mine)
In the Crossing Zebras interview, you mention that solo suicide gankers should have to work "a lot harder" than those who work in groups, owing to EVE being a social game. You state that "every other activity in the game" is a social activity.
I understand and agree that encouraging group activities in EVE is a good thing for the game and its players. However, I'm not sure what you mean by solo players not being punished. Solo players will feel that they are being "punished" if certain activities or reward levels are beyond their grasp (either absolutely impossible or prohibitively effort/ISK-intensive) because they choose to go it alone. The same principle can of course be applied to solo miners, industrialists, mission runners, and so forth.
How do you propose to encourage more social gameplay without punishing solo players? What would constitute punishment as opposed to merely having to work harder?
"Suddenly, trash pickers! HUNDREDS of winos going through your recyclables." -Piugattuk
Be careful what you wish for. |
Yuri Wayfare
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
268
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 19:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Let's not get too hung up on ganking, that was just a convenient example. The same goes for running missions, mining, industry, what have you. I want to get down to the principle. What is punishment for solo play? How do you avoid it? Is it reasonable to have activities which are off-limits to solo players altogether? You seem to suggest "no" but I'm not sure if that's what you really mean.
"Suddenly, trash pickers! HUNDREDS of winos going through your recyclables." -Piugattuk
Be careful what you wish for. |
Yuri Wayfare
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
271
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Posted - 2013.02.19 10:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ripard Teg wrote:Yuri Wayfare wrote:What is punishment for solo play? How do you avoid it? Is it reasonable to have activities which are off-limits to solo players altogether? You seem to suggest "no" but I'm not sure if that's what you really mean. I don't think solo play should be punished, I think group play should be encouraged with higher rewards, higher likelihood of success, and reduced risk. It's a subtle distinction, but important.
Maybe I'm phrasing my question wrong  I understand what you mean by encouraging group play. I'm trying to get you to (roughly) define "punishment". Do you have a concrete example of play which is being punished right now if you do it solo instead of in a group?
"Suddenly, trash pickers! HUNDREDS of winos going through your recyclables." -Piugattuk
Be careful what you wish for. |
Yuri Wayfare
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
274
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 12:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
rodyas wrote:Its hard to consider, a new player, would know so much about EVE already, to exploit some of the leveling irregularities compared to other activities.
You're so full of **** it isn't even funny.
Just because you took years and years to weasel your way out of shooting red crosses doesn't mean everyone in EVE does. Just because you work under the tutelage of a major alliance doesn't mean no-one can fend for themselves. And just because you have a raging hard-on for Ripard doesn't mean you can tell newbies to not talk back.
"Who people in EvE are and the weight of their words?" Seriously dude? Which rat dropped that +75% arrogance mod and can I borrow it sometime?
I regularly see newbies - true newbies - less than three months old trick 2003 characters into combat and win. I've done it myself. Solo. All it takes is a bit of a twisted mind and the patience to read blogs while your skills tick up. A smart and determined newbie is going to be a very dangerous player on very short notice.
Did you apologize to Fawn yet for calling her a liar? Thought not.
"Suddenly, trash pickers! HUNDREDS of winos going through your recyclables." -Piugattuk
Be careful what you wish for. |
Yuri Wayfare
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
276
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 00:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
rodyas wrote:Its probably not a good idea, to bring up my raging hard on, if you aren't gonna offer to help me out with that problem. Blue balls is indeed a medical crisis.
+1 sir, +1 indeed 
rodyas wrote:No reason to get mad at me really. Like I said, you and fawn I believe are CCP dream's characters actually.
You like linear game play, only need a low amount of SP to be effective, and only log into the game to destroy vets.
Nah. The reason I got mad at you is because you dismissed Fawn so off-handedly. It belittles the experience of new players who add meaningful content to the game. Spare them a thought. They tend to grow up into knowledgeable, valuable members of the community.
I do enjoy destroying 'vets', for whatever the hell that even means in this game. But I get my best kicks out of the type of player who convos me after a gank and asks me how he or she can get in on the business. Getting people involved is the best reward.
I don't see how that is linear, but you're welcome to expand on that if you want.
rodyas wrote:Also tutelage is a good word.
Yes it is! My enjoyment of EVE Online has increased significantly since I joined a good corp and received tutelage in the ways of this crazy, weird game of ours. And running in a pack of like-minded sociopaths has also improved my efficiency to no end. It's textbook "encourage social gameplay" really.
But I was a self-taught ninja before that and that sort of gameplay should never be dismissed. I get riled up when people suggest that things like suicide ganking or ninja salvaging (including baiting and ganking) are the preserve of the multi-million skill point +¬lite, picking on the poor newbies. In my experience that is simply not the case.
"Suddenly, trash pickers! HUNDREDS of winos going through your recyclables." -Piugattuk
Be careful what you wish for. |
Yuri Wayfare
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
276
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 01:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
rodyas wrote:Sadly I have become enlightened and no longer see the game SP wise anymore.
But if you read Jester's blog religiously you will see he did talk about how hard it is for new people to catch up SP wise. The SP gain is a very slow one and almost not worth it.
I usually felt the same way. I would prefer for the game to still be complex and not so linear, but the SP gain is very cumbersome.
I don't understand how you jive those utterly opposed ideas. EVE is and remains a revolutionary game in that a low-SP character can take on a high-SP character with a more than fair chance of winning - if said low-SP character is specialized to the task. And even more so if said low-SP char has some friends around.
I'm not experienced in "proper PVP" but it is my understanding that low-SP characters who have specialized into tackle, scouting, ECM or whatnot are considered valued members of the fleet.
rodyas wrote:To be fair, Fawn did ask for a vet to take her on, so shouldn't get so angry at it really.
Yeah. Because seeking out help totally destroys her New Player Experience  Isn't that what EVE should be all about in the first place?
"Suddenly, trash pickers! HUNDREDS of winos going through your recyclables." -Piugattuk
Be careful what you wish for. |
Yuri Wayfare
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
278
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 12:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ripard Teg wrote:Yuri Wayfare wrote:Do you have a concrete example of play which is being punished right now if you do it solo instead of in a group? I'm definining "punish" as the opposite of "reward" here. Take L4 missioning: that is much easier, much less riskier, and more profitable with a second and third ship on the field. The last time I ran missions, three was the sweet spot in fact: that's where you maximized your profit. Two or one was less profitable; you weren't being rewarded as well, ergo you were being "punished" slightly.
Thanks for clearing that up. By that definition though, any reward for group play is a de facto punishment for solo play. You state in your OP that you don't want to punish solo players but you do want to reward groups. I don't see any way to reconcile those positions?
And just to be clear, I don't think they need to reconciled in the first place. I feel that any content should be balanced to provide a low baseline reward for solo play, which scales up exponentially (to a certain ceiling) as more pilots become involved. Solo players are "punished" because they earn less and/or take longer to do so - and I think that's no more than fair.
"Suddenly, trash pickers! HUNDREDS of winos going through your recyclables." -Piugattuk
Be careful what you wish for. |
Yuri Wayfare
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
281
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 16:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ripard, you missed a spot 
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2653650#post2653650
And because you made me wait I have a further question along that line: what is a game mechanic that you would like to see changed so it does not punish solo players as much anymore?
"Suddenly, trash pickers! HUNDREDS of winos going through your recyclables." -Piugattuk
Be careful what you wish for. |
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