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Sykosys
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Posted - 2003.07.18 15:11:00 -
[1]
Ok there is little to no use for frigs at the moment other than being able to be replaced quickly.
Just up the speed on all frigs. Right now they are somewhat slow. And I am talking base speeds.
Heh this is comming from watching the new trailer. If frigs were that fast than you might see them used by people who have cruisers. Instead of everyone rushing for the biggest baddest ship.
Just a thought and I wasn't sure which forum to post so I picked this one.
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"She'll fly apart sir,"
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Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.07.18 15:51:00 -
[2]
If that, then frigate's speed with ab will be close to cruisers with mwd..... that's unacceptable unless that kind of frigate need same skills for mwd to use, and the price is same as current frigate + mwd price.....
Edited by: Dragon Emperor on 18/07/2003 15:52:45
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Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2003.07.18 16:01:00 -
[3]
Elite frigates will bridge the gap between frigs and cruisers.
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Xane
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Posted - 2003.07.18 16:08:00 -
[4]
But Frigates _are_ that fast as in the trailer, you just need the right configuration.
Navigation skill, Afterburners, etc, all operate on base speed, the higher the base speed the better the multiples on it add up.
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Iece Quaan
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Posted - 2003.07.18 16:15:00 -
[5]
I was under the impression that frigs had the highest base speed of any ship.. isn't the Executioner at 350?
I was planning on making a really fast ship, was gonna go Rifter ( 300 base ) + Navigation and high Min Frig skill..
Edited by: Iece Quaan on 18/07/2003 16:15:47
Edited by: Iece Quaan on 18/07/2003 16:17:34
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Gauguin
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Posted - 2003.07.18 16:37:00 -
[6]
Frigates do have the highest base speed, but even tricked out it ain't nearly fast enough to catch a cruiser fitted out for speed.
Frigates need to have their base speed raised ( I would say about double or triple) and/or there needs to be a SMALL MWD that is only usable by Frigates.
After all, speed is the only advantage a frigate has over the other ships in EVE, and with current speeds that advantage is quite marginal.
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Xane
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Posted - 2003.07.18 16:38:00 -
[7]
The Executioner is 330 I think.
Minmatar Frigates are better, the Rifter is 300 and the Vigil is 310, but they get a speed bonus of 5%/level of Frigate skill.
Navigation adds 5%/level as well. So a Rifter with Navigation 4 and Frigate 4 is running a +40% base speed of 420.
Some low slot modules can raise base speed too, the Basic Overdrive Injector adds another 20m/s each module. I'm not sure if this is done before or after skill bonus is applied.
Afterburners use the base speed _after_ skills and low slot modules have modified them, so, assume an Afterburner gives +30% speed, a unskilled Rifter pilot would be running at 400, whereas a Nav 4 Frig 4 pilot is running at 546, nearly twice the original base speed.
Acceleration Control improves the Afterburner modification, I have basic Afterburners with Acc Con 4 and get +50% each.
Everything accumulates, a Rifter with Nav 4 Frig 4 and both low slots with Injectors gives you 460 base. Acc 4 and both medium slots with Afterburners puts you over 1km/s.
With Afterburner and Fuel Conservation skills, you can actually recover capacitor faster than you lose it even with both Afterburners running.
Actually I think the skill modification is accumulative, i.e. Navigation 4 is more than 20% improvement.
Edited by: Xane on 18/07/2003 16:38:40
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Xane
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Posted - 2003.07.18 16:42:00 -
[8]
Frigates do have the highest base speed, but even tricked out it ain't nearly fast enough to catch a cruiser fitted out for speed.
Debateable, a Cruiser decked out for speed is going to sacrifice modules used for defence or attack, therefore it is weaker versus a pack of Frigates.
Additionally, as more modules are needed to overcome the lower base speed, a Cruiser will be using capacitor to attain that speed, whereas the Frigate are hardly draining theirs, so a prolonged battle is going to be in the Frigate pack's favour.
Admittedly, there is probably a nice balance, but on the whole a Cruiser isn't going to match a Frigate under normal circumstances.
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Xane
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Posted - 2003.07.18 16:45:00 -
[9]
One last point.
The additional problem in raising Frigate base speed is that it will be almost impossible for pirates to catch them at the gates.
Right now I rarely spend more than 12 seconds between warp and jump, a clever and fast pirate might be able to lock and get a shot off, if you reduce that further I'd be invulnerable at gates.
To counter that, the warp drop distance from gates would have to be increased, or the jump distance decreased, and that's not going to please too many Indy pilots :)
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Iece Quaan
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Posted - 2003.07.18 18:16:00 -
[10]
Sweet stuff, Xane, that is exactly what I was planning to do =)
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Gauguin
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Posted - 2003.07.18 18:33:00 -
[11]
"Debateable, a Cruiser decked out for speed is going to sacrifice modules used for defence or attack, therefore it is weaker versus a pack of Frigates."
A cruiser with one MWD can achieve over 1000 m/s. How much equipment space does a frigate captain have to sacrifice to get close to that? Not even considering that a frigate will need much higher speed to get any speed related advantage. So if a group of frigates attack a MWD equipped cruiser only those frigates that sacrificed their offensive/defensive potential for speed will be able to keep up, with predictable results.
"The additional problem in raising Frigate base speed is that it will be almost impossible for pirates to catch them at the gates."
This is probably debatable, but there really is no reason for a pirate to catch combat frigates as they try and make it for the gate. The cargo frigates, on the other hand, are slow enough to lock on and warp-scramble/webbify before they have a chance to jump. And it's the cargo ships that the real pirates need to be concerned with anyway. I really couldn't care less what the PKers concerns are.
Edited by: Gauguin on 18/07/2003 18:34:07
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Trebonius
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Posted - 2003.07.18 20:12:00 -
[12]
"The cargo frigates, on the other hand, are slow enough to lock on and warp-scramble/webbify before they have a chance to jump. And it's the cargo ships that the real pirates need to be concerned with anyway. I really couldn't care less what the PKers concerns are."
Yeah because 20k in omber is a much more tempting pirate target than the 10 million isk in modules some combat frigates have mounted on them. *rolls eyes*
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Gauguin
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Posted - 2003.07.18 21:16:00 -
[13]
"Yeah because 20k in omber is a much more tempting pirate target than the 10 million isk in modules some combat frigates have mounted on them. *rolls eyes*"
Trebonius, if you didn't roll your eyes so much you'd notice that the thread is related to frigates, hence a mention of a cargo frigate. Indies should obviously have a higher priority for a pirate than a cargo frigate like a Probe or an Imicus.
As far as having a 10 mil ISK module on a frigateā do you have on one yours? Is Trebonius a name of your main PC? You know, the one that flies that frigate that's worth 1% of the value of the modules you have mounted on it?...
Edited by: Gauguin on 18/07/2003 21:21:24
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