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Ranking morally questionable activities

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Complex Potential Blackstar Privateer Consortium Enigma Project 209	Posted - 2013.02.18 14:46:00 - [1] - Quote Eve allows for us to do some pretty evil things to each other which is what makes it fun. I'm interested to know how these things compare with each other in different people's eyes. First off I want to get a list of all the nasty stuff that's possible and then I'd like to attempt to rank them from least to most despicable. Here's my starter for ten (I know, there's 11) ranked from least to most despicable in my eyes: Pirating and honouring ransoms Gate camping Hot dropping High sec ganking Clever scams Can flipping Pirating and not honouring ransoms AWOXing Scamming by spamming local in tade hubs Stealing from corp/corp mates Blowing up corp mates I'm sure I've missed a bunch. Please add more and put them in your personal order if you feel brave enough to stick your head over the parapet.
Wescro Tash-Murkon Amalgamated Security 248	Posted - 2013.02.18 14:52:00 - [2] - Quote You forgot badposting on the forums. That would be at the very bottom of your list. James 315-á-áis the only pro-sandbox candidate running for CSM 8. Resist the theme-park invasion from dying MMOs like WoW! Keep the only sandbox MMO alive! Vote 315 4 CSM8!!!
Complex Potential Blackstar Privateer Consortium Enigma Project 209	Posted - 2013.02.18 14:58:00 - [3] - Quote Wescro wrote: You forgot badposting on the forums. That would be at the very bottom of your list. Such a shame the first reply had to be from you. Just trying to generate a bit of interesting discussion in c&p, sorry if that has offended you somehow.
Jint Hikaru OffWorld Exploration Inc 476	Posted - 2013.02.18 15:07:00 - [4] - Quote isnt 'AWOXing' the same as 'Blowing up corp mates' ? There you go, your list is now a much more pleasing 10 items. Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Complex Potential Blackstar Privateer Consortium Enigma Project 209	Posted - 2013.02.18 15:10:00 - [5] - Quote Jint Hikaru wrote: isnt 'AWOXing' the same as 'Blowing up corp mates' ? There you go, your list is now a much more pleasing 10 items. Actually, I'd say AWOXing is the act of joining a corp with the intention of causing havok whereas blowing up corp mates is someone who just randomly decides to turn on their buddies.
Signal11th The Retirement Club 900	Posted - 2013.02.18 16:00:00 - [6] - Quote Complex Potential wrote: Eve allows for us to do some pretty evil things to each other which is what makes it fun. I'm interested to know how these things compare with each other in different people's eyes. First off I want to get a list of all the nasty stuff that's possible and then I'd like to attempt to rank them from least to most despicable. Here's my starter for ten (I know, there's 11) ranked from least to most despicable in my eyes: Pirating and honouring ransoms Gate camping Hot dropping High sec ganking Clever scams Can flipping Pirating and not honouring ransoms AWOXing Scamming by spamming local in tade hubs Stealing from corp/corp mates Blowing up corp mates I'm sure I've missed a bunch. Please add more and put them in your personal order if you feel brave enough to stick your head over the parapet. it's a game there are no "morally questionable" actions because in reality it doesn't mean anything unless you some sad sack who's gets personally offended by foolish and getting scammed,blown up or somethign else that doesn;t actually matter. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster.
Sienna Washburne Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2013.02.18 16:04:00 - [7] - Quote Here's your list, re-ordered from my own point of view. 1 being the most despicable, 10 the least. 10. Pirating and honouring ransoms 9. Pirating and not honouring ransoms 8. Can flipping 7. Scamming by spamming local in tade hubs 6. Clever scams 5. Hot dropping 4. AWOXing 3. Stealing from corp/corp mates 2. High sec ganking 1. Gate camping The separation is added because I consider only the top 4 to be despicable activities at all. And if I'm being completely honest, only high sec ganking and gate camping would make my list if I were constructing one myself. In my opinion, 90%+ of AWOXing can be avoided by doing a little homework and due diligence. If a corp's recruiter is stupid enough to allow these people into the corp in the first place, it's their own damn fault and they deserve what they get. Pretty much the same thing with scams, especially the ones in local. Learn to read. Gate campers are the lowest form of scum. It's a stupid game mechanic to even be allowed in the first place. With all the tools available to bubble and interrupt warps, gate camping just makes for lazy game play. It's the equivalent of a bunch of 6th graders waiting around the corner to gang jump a 3rd grader for his lunch money. With the exception of the minerbumpers, who are doing God's work by eradicating AFKers, high sec gankers generally have the skill level of pocket lint. This must be what gate campers do when they're even more bored.
Complex Potential Blackstar Privateer Consortium Enigma Project 209	Posted - 2013.02.18 16:24:00 - [8] - Quote Signal11th wrote: it's a game there are no "morally questionable" actions because in reality it doesn't mean anything unless you some sad sack who's gets personally offended by being foolish/greedy and getting scammed,blown up or something else that doesn't actually matter. For the most part I'd agree, but with Eve more than any other game, the ships you fly and the ISK in your wallet all represent valuable personal commodities, ie time and/or real money. I've never gotten to the point where I got steaming mad about a loss but I can see how having someone you've known for years and trusted who suddenly stabs you in the back could be a bitter pill to swallow, especially if that person walked away with assets it had taken you years to accumulate. Game or not, if I've invested hundreds of hours into something, I'm gonna care about it.
Joran Dravius Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 63	Posted - 2013.02.18 18:09:00 - [9] - Quote Complex Potential wrote: Eve allows for us to do some pretty evil things to each other which is what makes it fun. I'm interested to know how these things compare with each other in different people's eyes. First off I want to get a list of all the nasty stuff that's possible and then I'd like to attempt to rank them from least to most despicable. Here's my starter for ten (I know, there's 11) ranked from least to most despicable in my eyes: 10: Pirating and honouring ransoms 9: Gate camping 2: Hot dropping 7: High sec ganking 8: Clever scams 6: Can flipping 1: Pirating and not honouring ransoms 5: Scamming by spamming local in tade hubs 3: Stealing from corp/corp mates 4: Blowing up corp mates I'm sure I've missed a bunch. Please add more and put them in your personal order if you feel brave enough to stick your head over the parapet. Added my own numbers. Lower is more despicable. Deleted the redundant one. I picked not honoring ransoms as #1 because the others only hurt one person or corp. Not honoring ransoms hurts every pirate in Eve.
Bedlin Caldari Organizational Logistics Department 22	Posted - 2013.02.18 18:12:00 - [10] - Quote 10. Pirating and honouring ransoms 9. Can flipping 8. Gate camping 7. Clever scams 6. High sec ganking 5. Hot dropping 4. Pirating and not honouring ransoms 3. Scamming by spamming local in trade hubs (Any mass spamming not just scams should be punishable by ship'splosion!) 2. Stealing from corp/corp mates 1. Blowing up corp mates Here is the priority from 10 being not offensive to 1 being Federation loyalist hippy or minmatar craftsmanship. Could not find a formal definition for AWOXing that was not already covered in your list as something else. By the way I also do not consider anything 6 and up as being aberrant behavior. 5 falls under the "the most honorable thing in war is victory" position. 1-4 though are pretty low, honestly when I was pirating we generally didn't ask for ransoms but if we had I am sure we would have honored them.
Complex Potential Blackstar Privateer Consortium Enigma Project 209	Posted - 2013.02.18 18:20:00 - [11] - Quote Joran Dravius wrote: Complex Potential wrote: Eve allows for us to do some pretty evil things to each other which is what makes it fun. I'm interested to know how these things compare with each other in different people's eyes. First off I want to get a list of all the nasty stuff that's possible and then I'd like to attempt to rank them from least to most despicable. Here's my starter for ten (I know, there's 11) ranked from least to most despicable in my eyes: 10: Pirating and honouring ransoms 9: Gate camping 2: Hot dropping 7: High sec ganking 8: Clever scams 6: Can flipping 1: Pirating and not honouring ransoms 5: Scamming by spamming local in tade hubs 3: Stealing from corp/corp mates 4: Blowing up corp mates I'm sure I've missed a bunch. Please add more and put them in your personal order if you feel brave enough to stick your head over the parapet. Added my own numbers. Lower is more despicable. Deleted the redundant one. I picked not honoring ransoms as #1 because the others only hurt one person or corp. Not honoring ransoms hurts every pirate in Eve. That's an interesting list. So you would really be more upset of you caught a corp mate hot dropping someone than if they blew you up?
Eugene Kerner TunDraGon 598	Posted - 2013.02.18 20:22:00 - [12] - Quote 1. Molesting Asteroids 2. Bad, uncreative and insulting smacktalk 3. Bad forum posting 4. Using warp core stabs 5. Flying Ventures...seriously they do not even give a wreck that could be salvaged 6. AFK Freighter Piloting 7. AFK Mining 8. Molesting Asteroids 9. Drawing paralells between EvE and RL 10. Being blue to half of New Eden "Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
Yuri Wayfare Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service 268	Posted - 2013.02.18 20:43:00 - [13] - Quote Nobody mentioned ninja salvaging? "Suddenly, trash pickers! HUNDREDS of winos going through your recyclables." -Piugattuk Be careful what you wish for.
Sabriz Adoudel Resurgent Threat 15	Posted - 2013.02.18 20:50:00 - [14] - Quote 2. AFK mining or other forms of botting 1. Using other exploits.
Takseen University of Caille Gallente Federation 238	Posted - 2013.02.18 21:22:00 - [15] - Quote Not Morally questionable Pirating and honouring ransoms Gate camping Hot dropping High sec ganking Morally questionable, from least bad to most bad Can flipping Scamming by spamming local in tade hubs Clever scams Pirating and not honouring ransoms Stealing from corp/corp mates Blowing up corp mates
Takseen University of Caille Gallente Federation 238	Posted - 2013.02.18 21:27:00 - [16] - Quote Bedlin wrote: 1-4 though are pretty low, honestly when I was pirating we generally didn't ask for ransoms but if we had I am sure we would have honored them. I took it to mean the pirates offer a ransom, take the money then kill the victim anyway. Not just pirates who don't offer a ransom in the first place.
Tah'ris Khlador Space Ghosts. Break-A-Wish Foundation 579	Posted - 2013.02.18 21:49:00 - [17] - Quote Apparently I am guilty of the four worst sins on this list. Somebody spank me. I'm Denzel Washington.
Liang Nuren Heretic Army Atrocitas 3076	Posted - 2013.02.18 21:56:00 - [18] - Quote What I learned from this thread is that I have extremely flexible morals in Eve. -Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
Takseen University of Caille Gallente Federation 238	Posted - 2013.02.18 21:56:00 - [19] - Quote Sienna Washburne wrote: In my opinion, 90%+ of AWOXing can be avoided by doing a little homework and due diligence. If a corp's recruiter is stupid enough to allow these people into the corp in the first place, it's their own damn fault and they deserve what they get. Pretty much the same thing with scams, especially the ones in local. Learn to read. Sounds a lot like victim blaming to me. "She should have known that guy would start beating her before she agreed to date him". Seems like requiring corp recruiters be psychic is not a good situation. Sienna Washburne wrote: Gate campers are the lowest form of scum. It's a stupid game mechanic to even be allowed in the first place. With all the tools available to bubble and interrupt warps, gate camping just makes for lazy game play. It's the equivalent of a bunch of 6th graders waiting around the corner to gang jump a 3rd grader for his lunch money. I wasn't aware bubbles and interdiction spheres had been enabled in lowsec.
Bedlin Caldari Organizational Logistics Department 22	Posted - 2013.02.18 22:33:00 - [20] - Quote Gate camping is an artifact of the way the game is designed. It's akin to bank robbing, because it's where the money is. You camp the gates because you know its where the ships will be, you can't station camp reliably because of their mechanics but with a big enough and coordinated group you can camp both sides of one gate and spy on a few other gates. If everyone was required to path through each one of the asteroid belts when they go through a system we would camp those, but that is just not how it is designed.
Alana Charen-Teng Tash-Murkon Amalgamated Security 257	Posted - 2013.02.18 22:40:00 - [21] - Quote I'd say the worst offense on your list should be: Throwing a hissy fit and making RL threats after suffering any of the above-mentioned things.
Theodoric Darkwind PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore 228	Posted - 2013.02.18 23:04:00 - [22] - Quote Complex Potential wrote: Eve allows for us to do some pretty evil things to each other which is what makes it fun. I'm interested to know how these things compare with each other in different people's eyes. First off I want to get a list of all the nasty stuff that's possible and then I'd like to attempt to rank them from least to most despicable. Here's my starter for ten ranked from least to most despicable in my eyes: Pirating and honouring ransoms Gate camping Hot dropping High sec ganking Clever scams Can flipping Pirating and not honouring ransoms Scamming by spamming local in tade hubs Stealing from corp/corp mates Blowing up corp mates I'm sure I've missed a bunch. Please add more and put them in your personal order if you feel brave enough to stick your head over the parapet. None of this is particularly objectionable, its all acceptable gameplay supported within the game mechanics, none of these activities you listed detract from the EVE experience. Here is my list of objectionable activities that I think actually do detract from the game (in no particular order) Botting RMT (other than PLEX) RL attacks through the gaming press Account Theft Hacking into corp/alliance websites (without using an in-game spy to infiltrate) DDoS attacks on corp/alliance websites and/or voice comms
Takseen University of Caille Gallente Federation 240	Posted - 2013.02.18 23:28:00 - [23] - Quote Theodoric Darkwind wrote: Hacking into corp/alliance websites (without using an in-game spy to infiltrate) What an odd distinction to make.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 2783	Posted - 2013.02.18 23:37:00 - [24] - Quote I don't consider any sort of PVP in low/null to be "morally questionable". Simply being in a place where people can arbitrarily shoot you means you consent to the possibility of violence. There's even a little popup. For something to be morally questionable in Eve, I would suggest that it has to happen in a way that the victim doesn't understand what could happen until it's too late. This leaves a rather short list: 5) Suicide ganking: While this is probably the most blatantly "bad guy" thing you can do, it has nothing to do with tricking your victim into doing something before you kill them. So while it's the only offense that will get you concorded, it doesn't require gaining and betraying trust. 4) Scamming: A fool and his money are soon parted. This doesn't require much trust to accomplish and it doesn't take much intelligence to avoid, so I'm ranking this just below ganking. 3) Not honoring ransoms: Yeah you lied, but then they blundered into whatever situation led to them being ransomed. 2) Corp theft: Now we're into the good stuff. You spend days, sometimes months gaining someone's trust to get access to the valuables and cash they have. And then, when the time is right, you utterly betray them and take everything that isn't nailed down. 1) Awox: Sometimes this is easy to avoid, other times it's impossible to see coming. Not only are you betraying trust, you're shaking someone's confidence in the entire recruitment process and making them paranoid about every recruit they have. Bonus: Being stupid. If you've fallen for any of the above when there was any indication that it was going to happen, I find that morally reprehensible. I'm embarrassed to be a member of the same species as some of these individuals...people incapable of learning and adapting in a harsh and unforgiving environment. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks 2783	Posted - 2013.02.18 23:38:00 - [25] - Quote Takseen wrote: Theodoric Darkwind wrote: Hacking into corp/alliance websites (without using an in-game spy to infiltrate) What an odd distinction to make. Hacking and infiltration are two different things. One is using some possibly-illegal means to gain entry to a computer system. The other is simply getting someone to given you the password. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Alana Charen-Teng Tash-Murkon Amalgamated Security 258	Posted - 2013.02.19 00:27:00 - [26] - Quote FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: I don't consider any sort of PVP in low/null to be "morally questionable". Simply being in a place where people can arbitrarily shoot you means you consent to the possibility of violence. People can arbitrarily shoot you in highsec, as well. The only difference is that it comes with the certainty of the aggressor's ship loss. Your argument extends beyond lowsec/zerosec, and encompasses all of New Eden.
Takseen University of Caille Gallente Federation 247	Posted - 2013.02.19 13:55:00 - [27] - Quote FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote: 1) Awox: Sometimes this is easy to avoid, other times it's impossible to see coming. Not only are you betraying trust, you're shaking someone's confidence in the entire recruitment process and making them paranoid about every recruit they have. Why I put this on the top of my list too.
Solomar Espersei Quality Assurance The Marmite Collective 340	Posted - 2013.02.19 14:11:00 - [28] - Quote Morals. LOL. People really have those? Quality Assurance
Haedonism Bot Revolutionary Front New Creation Collective 191	Posted - 2013.02.19 14:14:00 - [29] - Quote 7. Placing bounties on me (PLEASE don't do this, I hate it SO MUCH!!!) 6. RMT 5. Botting 4. Using out-of-game-context tools to carry out in-game conflicts (hacking). 3. Account theft 2. Teaching new players to be risk averse cowards (example - "you should spend a few months in highsec running missions and training your skills before you try PvP, Johnny McNewguy") 1. Theory666 Join the Revolutionary Front and liberate New Eden from it's stuff.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen Lords.Of.Midnight 51	Posted - 2013.02.19 20:13:00 - [30] - Quote Don't forget war-dec'ing hisec carebear industrial & PVE corps for...erm...non-consensual pvp training... http://evedarklord.blogspot.ca
Frank Doberman The Free Republic of OTF2 2	Posted - 2013.02.21 02:04:00 - [31] - Quote 1. Mining err............ 2. flying a Drake/Raven?
Complex Potential Blackstar Privateer Consortium Enigma Project 211	Posted - 2013.02.21 08:10:00 - [32] - Quote Frank Doberman wrote: 1. Mining err............ 2. flying a Drake/Raven? How about mining in a drake or a raven?
Eugene Kerner TunDraGon 606	Posted - 2013.02.21 09:00:00 - [33] - Quote Complex Potential wrote: Frank Doberman wrote: 1. Mining err............ 2. flying a Drake/Raven? How about mining in a drake or a raven? Mining in a Raven for a Drake? "Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012
Aracimia Wolfe Brave Newbies Inc. 221	Posted - 2013.02.21 12:57:00 - [34] - Quote Eugene Kerner wrote: Complex Potential wrote: Frank Doberman wrote: 1. Mining err............ 2. flying a Drake/Raven? How about mining in a drake or a raven? Mining in a Raven for a Drake? Mining in a drake for a Raven. Malcanis for CSM 8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717 \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ m8m8m8m8m8m8m8 o7
Yuri Wayfare Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service 274	Posted - 2013.02.21 14:16:00 - [35] - Quote Takseen wrote: Sounds a lot like victim blaming to me. "She should have known that guy would start beating her before she agreed to date him". "Drawing strained comparisons between real-world atrocities and in-game behavior" is somewhere near the top of my list. It both exaggerates the in-game behavior and belittles the real-life victims. Bravo. "Suddenly, trash pickers! HUNDREDS of winos going through your recyclables." -Piugattuk Be careful what you wish for.
Ra Jackson BLOOM. Verge of Collapse 154	Posted - 2013.02.21 14:38:00 - [36] - Quote 1. Harassing noobs. 2. Metagaming shenanigans like account hacking, RMT, botting etc.
Buhhdust Princess Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships. 466	Posted - 2013.02.21 15:07:00 - [37] - Quote 1. Being Nice 2. Not Stealing ISK 3. Being Nice 4. Treating people like humans, even though they clearly are idiots.
Ristlin Wakefield Wanderers of the Eternal Darkness Eternal Pretorian Alliance 295	Posted - 2013.02.21 15:26:00 - [38] - Quote Buhhdust Princess wrote: 1. Being Nice 2. Not Stealing ISK 3. Being Nice 4. Treating people like humans, even though they clearly are idiots. I'm nice to everyone in EVE! Just yesterday I noticed an old enemy had logged on, so I opened a conversation and wished him well. I enjoy being nice! I have a lover, her name is EVE. I see her every night and all she asks in return is that I have a pilot's license.
Frank Doberman The Free Republic of OTF2 2	Posted - 2013.02.22 02:09:00 - [39] - Quote Complex Potential wrote: Frank Doberman wrote: 1. Mining err............ 2. flying a Drake/Raven? How about mining in a drake or a raven? Oh now that's just sick! How come CCCP haven't banned you yet when you've got a mind which can come up with stuff like that? Oh god! the mental image....... If anyone actually has a screenshot of the above, please, please keep it to yourself.
Amyclas Amatin EVE University Ivy League 7	Posted - 2013.02.22 05:08:00 - [40] - Quote NBSI is the end of the law. Besides that... I would think it morally wrong to: Betray Corpsmates Betray the alliance Betray Blues, (unless the Corps or Alliance asks me to.) Violate the EULA To wreck mayhem on others you generally need honor among thieves within the group. No matter what atrocities you do to outsiders, you should have a clear line that you don't cross for friends. Anything else goes.
Takseen University of Caille Gallente Federation 266	Posted - 2013.02.22 17:19:00 - [41] - Quote Yuri Wayfare wrote: Takseen wrote: Sounds a lot like victim blaming to me. "She should have known that guy would start beating her before she agreed to date him". "Drawing strained comparisons between real-world atrocities and in-game behavior" is somewhere near the top of my list. It both exaggerates the in-game behavior and belittles the real-life victims. Bravo. I'm not comparing the acts or their severity, just that the similar lines used. I quote Quote: 90%+ of AWOXing can be avoided by doing a little homework and due diligence. If a corp's recruiter is stupid enough to allow these people into the corp in the first place, it's their own damn fault and they deserve what they get. That's pretty basic victim blaming.
Big Gord 24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2013.02.22 17:53:00 - [42] - Quote Gate camps, high sec ganking, and pirating I think are the least despicable ones in that they are honest. They are there to blow you up, plain and simple. No need to lie, scam or deceive. An example is the United. They seem to get a bad rap, but you probably can't find more honest players in the game. You see them, prepare to blow up. Scamming, AWOXing, etc I would see as more despicable as they require dishonesty. In the end, this is just a video game, so it really doesn't matter.
Psychotic Monk The Skunkworks 755	Posted - 2013.02.23 03:51:00 - [43] - Quote Takseen wrote: That's pretty basic victim blaming. That`d be an interesting point if this were something like real life crime, but actually it`s like the victor in a game of chess blaming the loser for playing badly. It may or may not be incorrect, but it isn`t wrong. Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement. Have a blog, if you care.

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