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Hulemand	Posted - 2005.07.28 20:46:00 - [1] The fastest interceptor goes like 4000 m/s = 14400 km/hour! A battleship goes like 200 m/s = 720 km/hour! That's just slow! A frigging Jumbo 747 goes 800 km/hour! Ships in EVE should be 10, 50 or even 100 times faster!
JoCool	Posted - 2005.07.28 20:48:00 - [2] Oh yeah. 100 times faster speed for all ships!
Shayla Sh'inlux	Posted - 2005.07.28 20:48:00 - [3] Would it make you happy if they would just apply a factor 10 over everything? Distances, gun ranges, speed. It's fine as it is.
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.07.28 20:50:00 - [4] Faster ships across the board would make the game more interesting. ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.07.28 20:53:00 - [5] ANyone forgot about warp technology? Jump gate technology? Thats why EVE ships dont need super speeds. -=-
Kilpelainen	Posted - 2005.07.28 21:24:00 - [6] My Raven goes 3AU/s right now. Thats not so bad? But seriously if it wouldn't be too much ccp could try a patch on test server where all ships would get x10 speed factor or something. Could be intresting.
Quintus Peritus	Posted - 2005.07.28 21:41:00 - [7] Even if some people always bring out the 'it's a game it does not have to be real'-"argument", think about the forces involved when maneuvering ships at high speeds. I don't remember reading any backstory articles mentioning some sort of Star Trek-esque gravity damper, so I guess just floating in a pod does not make you immune to G-forces. An example: an interceptor doing a 10km radius orbit at 3000 (well, I made up some numbers) will suffer from a = v2/r = 3000*3000/10000 = 900m/s2 or roughly 90 G. And having ten times the speed would up the G's by a factor of 100..
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.07.28 21:41:00 - [8] Originally by: Sky Hunter ANyone forgot about warp technology? Jump gate technology? Thats why EVE ships dont need super speeds. I dont like the whole jump system Eve uses...its too obviously engineered to cover weaknesses of the game's design. ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here
El Yatta	Posted - 2005.07.28 21:48:00 - [9] Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Originally by: Sky Hunter ANyone forgot about warp technology? Jump gate technology? Thats why EVE ships dont need super speeds. I dont like the whole jump system Eve uses...its too obviously engineered to cover weaknesses of the game's design. Well, what would you suggest as an alternative? Physically moving at STL speeds between systems, it is not possible to build a coherent galactic civilisation, or even one over a small cluster, like EVE. The only alternative most sci-fi, and theoretical physicists can come up with, is either point-to-point artificial wormholes (gates), or some sort of interconnected wormhole skein, or network, where once in one hole, you can navigate out of any of the connected holes, ie. instantaneous travel. How would either STL travel (years between systems) or instantaneous travel anywhere be good gameplay? ---:::---
Meridius	Posted - 2005.07.28 21:55:00 - [10] Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Originally by: Sky Hunter ANyone forgot about warp technology? Jump gate technology? Thats why EVE ships dont need super speeds. I dont like the whole jump system Eve uses...its too obviously engineered to cover weaknesses of the game's design. Agreed but at this point there isn't a lot they can do about it ________________________________________________________
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.07.28 21:55:00 - [11] Take the current warp drive system and simply expand upon it. Add in a high warp mode for interstellar travel. Makes much more sense technologically that the jumpgate system. Of course is you scrap warp drive entirely, something like Babylon 5's hyperspace would be perfect...but those ships were fast. So have Jumpgates and Jump Drives to get into Hyperspace. And simply fly to the jump gate you would need to use or use the jump drive to open your own exit gate. ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.07.28 21:57:00 - [12] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Originally by: Sky Hunter ANyone forgot about warp technology? Jump gate technology? Thats why EVE ships dont need super speeds. I dont like the whole jump system Eve uses...its too obviously engineered to cover weaknesses of the game's design. Agreed but at this point there isn't a lot they can do about it Yeah There's always hope for Eve: The Real Version tho ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here
Sky Hunter	Posted - 2005.07.28 22:30:00 - [13] Babylon 5 ships traveled weeks between systems. Dont forget Anyways, IMO speed is pretty good in game, and doesnt need change. -=-
Ayms	Posted - 2005.07.28 22:31:00 - [14] I love the STL idea here. Lets see 3au/sec, light covers an au in 8 minutes. Thats 1440 time the speed of light already. And the are 63,000+au to a ly. Thats 5h50m per ly at that speed. Yeah, I want travel to be like training, be back in a week.
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.07.28 22:32:00 - [15] Originally by: Sky Hunter Babylon 5 ships traveled weeks between systems. Dont forget Anyways, IMO speed is pretty good in game, and doesnt need change. Hehe yeah, but the concept is important. ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.07.28 22:33:00 - [16] Originally by: Ayms I love the STL idea here. Lets see 3au/sec, light covers an au in 8 minutes. Thats 1440 time the speed of light already. And the are 63,000+au to a ly. Thats 5h50m per ly at that speed. Yeah, I want travel to be like training, be back in a week. Did you consider that warp drive can be faster? 3 au/s is peanuts. ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here
Anjerrai Meloanis	Posted - 2005.07.28 22:37:00 - [17] It would be pretty cool if the gates were replaced by different versions of the deadspace warp gate things, but they made you warp at like 100au/s or something between systems.. Altho as it was said, the gate system is this way for a reason, albeit not a very cool one hehe... Gameplay issues.. uh.
Lord Aradon	Posted - 2005.07.28 22:45:00 - [18] Originally by: Hulemand The fastest interceptor goes like 4000 m/s = 14400 km/hour! A battleship goes like 200 m/s = 720 km/hour! That's just slow! A frigging Jumbo 747 goes 800 km/hour! Ships in EVE should be 10, 50 or even 100 times faster! ROFLMFAO, i think you better look at mass here my friend, as a Raven is many many times bigger than a jumbo -------------------------------- Free websites
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.07.28 22:48:00 - [19] Originally by: Lord Aradon Originally by: Hulemand The fastest interceptor goes like 4000 m/s = 14400 km/hour! A battleship goes like 200 m/s = 720 km/hour! That's just slow! A frigging Jumbo 747 goes 800 km/hour! Ships in EVE should be 10, 50 or even 100 times faster! ROFLMFAO, i think you better look at mass here my friend, as a Raven is many many times bigger than a jumbo Mass does not affect terminal velocity. Thrust, inertia (because of the energy to stop required), and FUEL do (obviously you cant full burn for hours, but Eve lacks any kind of fuel system). ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here
Lord Aradon	Posted - 2005.07.28 22:59:00 - [20] Edited by: Lord Aradon on 28/07/2005 23:03:21 Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Originally by: Lord Aradon Originally by: Hulemand The fastest interceptor goes like 4000 m/s = 14400 km/hour! A battleship goes like 200 m/s = 720 km/hour! That's just slow! A frigging Jumbo 747 goes 800 km/hour! Ships in EVE should be 10, 50 or even 100 times faster! ROFLMFAO, i think you better look at mass here my friend, as a Raven is many many times bigger than a jumbo Mass does not affect terminal velocity. Thrust, inertia (because of the energy to stop required), and FUEL do (obviously you cant full burn for hours, but Eve lacks any kind of fuel system). It may not affect terminal velocity but a rock will hit terminal velocity faster than a feather and if you knew anything about science you would also know that terminal velocity is the effect of gravity on an item. Let me do the science on you. W = WEIGHT D = DRAG V = VELOCITY r = DENISTY m = MASS A = FRONTAL AREA Cd = DRAG COEFFICIENT So Motion of falling object with air resistence (drag) A = (W -D)/m When drag is equal to weight, acceleration becomes zero. Then: W = D = Cd r V(2)/2 * A Terminal Velocity: V = sqrt(2 W/Cd * r * A) Lower terminal velocity with large area or high drag coefficient. For two objects with the same area and drag coefficient, lower terminal velocity for the lighter object. An object which is falling through the atmosphere is subjected to two external forces. One force is the gravitational force, expressed as the weight of the object. The other force is the air resistance, or drag of the object. The motion of any object can be described by Newton's second law of motion, force F equals mass m times acceleration a: F = m * a which can be solved for the acceleration of the object in terms of the net external force and the mass of the object: a = F / m Weight and drag are forces which are vector quantities. The net external force F is then equal to the difference of the weight W and the drag D F = W - D The acceleration of a falling object then becomes: a = (W - D) / m The drag force depends on the square of the velocity. So as the body accelerates its velocity and the drag increase. It quickly reaches a point where the drag is exactly equal to the weight. When drag is equal to weight, there is no net external force on the object and the object falls at a constant velocity as described by Newton's first law of motion. The constant velocity is called the terminal velocity . We can determine the value of the terminal velocity by doing a little algebra and using the drag equation. Drag depends on a drag coefficient, Cd the air density, r the square of the velocity V and some reference area A of the object: D = Cd * r * V ^2 * A / 2 At terminal velocity, D = W. Solving for the velocity, we obtain the equation V = sqrt ( (2 * W) / (Cd * r * A) ) where sqrt denotes the square root function. Typical values of the drag coefficient are given on a separate slide. The terminal velocity equation tells us that an object with a large cross-sectional area or a high drag coefficient falls slower than an object with a small area or low drag coefficient. A large flat plate falls slower than a small ball with the same weight. If we have two objects with the same area and drag coefficient, like two identically sized spheres, the lighter object falls slower. This seems to contradict the findings of Galileo that all free falling objects fall at the same rate with equal air resistance. But Galileo's principle only applies in a vacuum, where there is NO air resistance and drag is equal to zero. Plus i think you'll find TV is around 120m/ph (200km/ph) and since many rocket propelled items go many times faster than this, how can you even quote TV? I hope we cleared this up. -------------------------------- Free websites
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.07.28 23:03:00 - [21] Edited by: Sobeseki Pawi on 28/07/2005 23:03:49 I may be missing something, but Im pretty sure the only drag in space is gravity. Unless of course you plan to drag race in a star's corona. ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here
Lord Aradon	Posted - 2005.07.28 23:05:00 - [22] I give up, DRAG IS AIR RESISTANCE, THERE IS NO AIR IN SPACE -------------------------------- Free websites
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.07.28 23:05:00 - [23] ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here
Taraniis	Posted - 2005.07.28 23:19:00 - [24] Originally by: Hulemand A battleship goes like 200 m/s = 720 km/hour! That's just slow! A frigging Jumbo 747 goes 800 km/hour! Not wanting to **** completely on your rant here, but since when has a BS been the size of a 747? You will find that BS's are quite HUGE and therefore will travel slowly as the engines try to overcome the inertia of its fat arse
agronomas	Posted - 2005.07.28 23:36:00 - [25] Edited by: agronomas on 28/07/2005 23:36:28 Originally by: Lord Aradon I give up, DRAG IS AIR RESISTANCE, THERE IS NO AIR IN SPACE edit: hehe
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.07.28 23:36:00 - [26] Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Did you consider that warp drive can be faster? 3 au/s is peanuts. Compared to what? Thats 1495.98 times the speed of light, thats warp 11.4 on the original series scale, warp 8.963 on TNG scale. Its a tad less than voyager's cruise speed, right around early TNG Enterprise D's max speed and above the defiant's absolute max rated speed. I'd do Star Wars or B5 comparisons, but neither of them have such a lovely easy to ignore by the writers speeds set in canon. Nevertheless - B5 ships without jump drives are SLOW (Earth Alliance) although the more advanced races (Everyone but Earth Alliance) have jump drives and seem to be reasonably quick. Another thing to note: Jumpgates aren't instantaneous. Star Wars has many inconsistancies regarding speeds - Star Wars vessels are either ludicrously fast or slow depending on which lines you decide to take literally. Proud member of Elite Academy.
Hllaxiu	Posted - 2005.07.28 23:40:00 - [27] Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Mass does not affect terminal velocity. Thrust, inertia (because of the energy to stop required), and FUEL do (obviously you cant full burn for hours, but Eve lacks any kind of fuel system). Its much easier if you accept that Eve is full of aether as we believed space to be filled with in the 19th century and completely ignore newton. However, if we are going to apply newtonian mechanics then I want unlocked max speeds, although I imagine safeties would limit top speeds to something like a 10 second thrust (acceleration is only limiter on a spacecraft). Absolute max sublight speed could be limited by special relativity. Proud member of Elite Academy.
Sobeseki Pawi	Posted - 2005.07.29 00:01:00 - [28] Originally by: Hllaxiu Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi Mass does not affect terminal velocity. Thrust, inertia (because of the energy to stop required), and FUEL do (obviously you cant full burn for hours, but Eve lacks any kind of fuel system). Its much easier if you accept that Eve is full of aether as we believed space to be filled with in the 19th century and completely ignore newton. However, if we are going to apply newtonian mechanics then I want unlocked max speeds, although I imagine safeties would limit top speeds to something like a 10 second thrust (acceleration is only limiter on a spacecraft). Absolute max sublight speed could be limited by special relativity. Fuel is the main limitation for burn length. But with no fuel in Eve... ~Sobe Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.07.29 00:48:00 - [29] Anyone who requests 'more realism' should be imo forced to play Frontier for a week straight, with no save/load, no autopilot and no time acceleration. If after that time they still complain, continue enforced Frontier sessions until desired resolution is achieved >>;
Mr Floppyknickers	Posted - 2005.07.29 00:50:00 - [30] Discalimer: didn't read all of the previous posts, so if these points have been mentioned before just skip it and let me continue on thinking i'm clever, not to mention SASSY! geek warning K, this is just to make a point because I like EVE as is, but what about light speed theory? You know the whole time slows down as you approach the speed of light bit. Traveling between systems in a non warp gate fashion could result in wars being fought and lost, empires rising and falling, corps becoming mega or going completely belly up not to mention your ship may be antiquated everytime you finish a 2 week trip between a set of systems, not to mention regions. You leave one system the mims are still being used as slaves by the amarr, you get to you destniation to find a superior race of space hamsters has conquered all empires and entertain themselves by watching us run on wheels and nibble lil food biscuits. the geek warning has been extended Another idea might be a hyper drive like that used in the "Lost in Space" film. The skill could correspond to the exit vector or something, allowing you to reduce by a bit the area you'll appear in from say the whole system down to 1/3 of it. No guaranteed exact spot of where you enter a system. You may pop out in a large empty stretch or right next to a belt or planet or your enemy. Might make coordinated fleet ops a lil more interesting as your fleet jumps in and is spread out in the entire system and now must link up or be picked apart. sarcasm aftermath of the previous geek front Besides, this is sci-fi they can make up anything they want. If CCP want's to say that all ships come standard with a manajustercarberator that allows travel between systems at 400hexaflatulences a second to result in crossing from one system to the next nearly instantaneously they can. The only problem they'll likely snag in doing such is that some rabid fanboy of a particular show or literal science will whine their tushy off about how it's not like their favorite show or realistic or blah blah blah. Well, one: it's a game about space, and two: since none of us live, not to mention actually having ever visted, space or used advanced technology that can propel things at fantastic speeds or are made unknowable composites and know how such a bucket of parts would or would not behave in a zero G environment, how the hell can you justify what is real or accurate? Breathe deep my purist breathen and let..... it ........ go......... ahhhhh. It's a game, the game is set up the way it is to be fun, remember fun? Soooooo, if you don't like the whole speed issue take a whiteout pen and paint on your monitor by the speed display a couple of zeros and viola! Faster ship! If the gates annoy you then do the following: as you apporach a gate simply raise your right hand so it is vertical and flat and at level with your eyes. Done that? Good, now as you apporach the gate: slowly, and do it slowly or this could hurt, bring your hand toward your eyes until you are no longer annoyed by the terrible sight of the gate which is just a reminder of the terrible farce that is gate travel. Ahh, isn't that better? Darker certainly, but it makes you wanna play peekaboo. In summation I shall leave you with a approximate quote from one of my favorite sci-fi shows. Char1 "Honestly, reading minds? That's crazy, isn't that in the realm of science fiction? Char1's wife "We live on a spaceship dear."

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