| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Leon Ronuken
Lime Inc.
1
   |
Posted - 2013.02.22 15:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
As a new person to Eve, it is not without some trepidation that I post and thereby expose myself to the all-encompassing critiques of the veterans who read and post on these fora.
Last night in Hjortur, during a period of low users, I came upon a belt which had about 12 Retrievers and a few Ventures. Each one of the ships had a ship name beginning with B. All of the ships appeared to be stripping the belt in a systematic manner, and many of the belts in the rest of the system were already completely stripped. None of the ships had a corporate tag. Apart from one person in one other belt in the system at the time, there were no other players in the system. I lingered in the belt observing this operation for several minutes.
This seemed quite odd to me. After a brief chat with another player, we speculated that this might be a "gold farming" operation - in which either bots or persons hired over the internet acquire in-game resources and transform that into real money. In Eve, this would, it seems, be a matter of massive, systematic mining to sell the ore for ISK, buy plex with the ISK, and then sell the plex for real money (at a discount from CCP prices, no doubt). With a large fleet of high capacity mining ships, this doesn't seem all that difficult.
About 5 minutes after departing the system, and on the conclusion of my brief chat with a friend, I returned to the belt to record the names of the ships and submit some kind of report on the activity to CCP. The entire fleet had disappeared, save for 2 mining drones abandoned. A few searches through the belts turned up nothing.
I don't know quite what to make of this, or what to do, so I am opening this event and phenomena up for general discussion. I feel that such uses of the Eve game are not only a violation of the EULA, but also have the potential of degrading the enjoyment and use of the game by *normal* players - though Eve's normal is quite expansive as we all know.
Very interested in the observations and comments of the vets. Thanks.
|
Kate stark
252
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 15:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
sounds normal to me, i do it all the time. turn up to a belt, strip it clean, repeat.
Obvious Goon alt that's never mined a day in his life(!) |
Leon Ronuken
Lime Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 15:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:sounds normal to me, i do it all the time. turn up to a belt, strip it clean, repeat.
Can you run 12 ships at once? And would you have the entire fleet leave the system just because a lone miner showed up and lingered for a couple minutes? |
Kate stark
252
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 15:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Leon Ronuken wrote:Kate stark wrote:sounds normal to me, i do it all the time. turn up to a belt, strip it clean, repeat. Can you run 12 ships at once?
10 seconds per ships is more than enough time for me to drag and drop ore, and restart lasers. so yes, i can.
Obvious Goon alt that's never mined a day in his life(!) |
Abrazzar
891
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 15:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
If they're in a tight ball, you can do something about it with just a few smartbomb fitted battleships.
I mean, it affects you enough to make you post on the forums, so why not scratch the itch?
Mining Overhaul
Nothing changed since 2008. |
Leon Ronuken
Lime Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 15:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:If they're in a tight ball, you can do something about it with just a few smartbomb fitted battleships.
I mean, it affects you enough to make you post on the forums, so why not scratch the itch?
My personal skill and game mechanics familiarity level make this problematic for me at present. However, that was part of my discussion with the friend I mentioned in the OP.
It doesn't affect me per se; if this operation was a gold farming operation it affects the whole community in some way, does it not? |
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 15:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Leon Ronuken wrote:Kate stark wrote:sounds normal to me, i do it all the time. turn up to a belt, strip it clean, repeat. Can you run 12 ships at once? And would you have the entire fleet leave the system just because a lone miner showed up and lingered for a couple minutes?
Multi-boxing is allowed, Botting is not.
If I were to multi-Box I would name all of my slave alts the same with a unique serial number. They would all get Officer Detonation Collars to. Have to keep them slaves in line.
|
Whitehound
931
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 15:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
One can warp an entire fleet with a single command.
Many players then mine ore to pay for their next PLEX. It is often enough to run a second account. Some players then cannot get enough and create more and more accounts, which they use to buy PLEX for further accounts, and so on.
There is a player in the system Agal, who has managed to do this with something like 100 ice-mining ships. Yes, that is 100 accounts for one player ... 
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade
The East India Co.
1067
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 15:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'm still not sure what this has to do with an ill-enunciated yellow cartoon bird.
The Margin Trading Scam: If you fell for it, it's your own damned fault.
Malcanis for CSM 8
Eve Online: The full-contact sport for your brain. |
Leon Ronuken
Lime Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 15:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:I'm still not sure what this has to do with an ill-enunciated yellow cartoon bird.
What do you have against Sylvester ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Taw_a_Putty_Tat
|
Whitehound
931
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:I'm still not sure what this has to do with an ill-enunciated yellow cartoon bird.
Birds sing and snitches snitch.
Which reminds me... One can win a PLEX for a successful report on a bot aka "PLEX for snitches".
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Azami Nevinyrall
Carbon Circle
Tactical Narcotics Team
696
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Fly to belt with 1 catalyst per barge, salvage wrecks, instant profits from someone else botting!
Apperently I'm on twitter now...
@AzamiNevinyrall |
Leon Ronuken
Lime Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:One can warp an entire fleet with a single command. Many players then mine ore to pay for their next PLEX. It is often enough to run a second account. Some players then cannot get enough and create more and more accounts, which they use to buy PLEX for further accounts, and so on. There is a player in the system Agal, who has managed to do this with something like 100 ice-mining ships. Yes, that is 100 accounts for one player ...
This seems like the most likely explanation. However, the part that probably confused me the most was why the fleet disappeared a few minutes after I showed up. If the player was doing nothing counter-EULA, then why the flight? Not ruling out coinkydinky end of session, but the belt was still half full when I returned.
Conclusion thus far : nothing to get in a twist about.
Further question : Best way to tell if some sort of operation is bot-driven, or not?
|
Wodensun
ZeroSec
55
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
He might have been using ISKboxer and simply have been multiboxing most of us run more then one client at the same time this however does not make us bots nor does it mean that were gold farming
Also.. WoW is > that way. |
Azami Nevinyrall
Carbon Circle
Tactical Narcotics Team
696
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
The best way to tell if someone is botting?
You gank them, watch their POD, if it stays around for a bit, warp to and from station in said POD. Then there's a good chance they're botting.....or just plain ********!
Apperently I'm on twitter now...
@AzamiNevinyrall |
Whitehound
931
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
Leon Ronuken wrote:Further question : Best way to tell if some sort of operation is bot-driven, or not?
If it is done excessively like 23/7 and when the ships repeatedly show a failing behaviour, which you just would not expect any human player to do. For example, when the same ship warps to the same spot again and again, but does nothing else (i.e. the asteroids are out of reach). A human player will eventually stop and recognize the mistake whereas a bot might not and thus hangs itself in a loop.
Other than this is it practically impossible for a normal player to tell a smart bot apart from a stupid and boring play style.
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Mhax Arthie
Pagan INC
43
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Personally Im against of the mindless gank, but in my cards.. this is boting. The fact that CCP is allowing this, is sad. Is why I'm "neutral" with James. I hate when they gank a lonely miner, but I'm 100% for it when they gank a real bot. It really **** me off seeing that CCP is allowing this massive multi boxing just for money.. like a single person who is allowed to control a 100 account just because this means 100 plex sold.
So here is the question.. let ease on the rules and ban multi boxing, or FFA and let ease on ganking anybody.. no matter if is a single account or not. I vote for banning multi boxing, also banning Jita spam :/ |
Emma d'Acques
Vault Asset Management
24
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Leon,
It could be that you saw a player with just too much time on his hands and/or RL money to burn/ISK to burn.
Not all such operations are necessarily bots, it could very well have been a legitimate player.
If you suspect botting is involved, the best thing you can do is linger a while, observe them, and note down any warp-outs/warp-ins.
If the timing is always "perfect", or near-perfect, then that is good indicator of a bot.
Another thing you can try, is what Azami Neinyrall suggested, suicide gank them, return to the belt, and watch the pod's behaviour.
If the pod continues to warp in and out, on a somewhat fixed schedule, then you are dealing with a bot, and you should report them as such.
You could also try and get the attention of one (or all) of the pilots via private conversation and/or local chat.
And if all else fails, bump them, keep bumping them, and if there is somebody behind the keyboard, they WILL get angry with you, and ask you to stop bumping them.
As an aside, bumping miners can be a lot of fun too :)
I'm not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example. |
Leon Ronuken
Lime Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
Emma d'Acques wrote:Leon,
As an aside, bumping miners can be a lot of fun too :)
Like.
Even though that's what I am ;)
Thanks for the comprehensive answer ;)
|
Mire Stoude
Antelope with Night Vision Goggles
109
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
What you saw were ghost mining barges. |
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
R O G U E
239
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
Leon Ronuken wrote:Kate stark wrote:sounds normal to me, i do it all the time. turn up to a belt, strip it clean, repeat. Can you run 12 ships at once? And would you have the entire fleet leave the system just because a lone miner showed up and lingered for a couple minutes?
you would be supprised how many miners own a rediculus number of accounts and run them all at the same time. |
Leon Ronuken
Lime Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:45:00 -
[22] - Quote
Mire Stoude wrote: ghost mining barges
Not familiar with the lingetty?
|
Leon Ronuken
Lime Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:46:00 -
[23] - Quote
ITTigerClawIK wrote:Leon Ronuken wrote:Kate stark wrote:sounds normal to me, i do it all the time. turn up to a belt, strip it clean, repeat. Can you run 12 ships at once? And would you have the entire fleet leave the system just because a lone miner showed up and lingered for a couple minutes? you would be supprised how many miners own a rediculus number of accounts and run them all at the same time.
No one has yet speculated on the second point : why did they all depart so suddenly?
|
Doddy
Dark-Rising
835
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:48:00 -
[24] - Quote
Leon Ronuken wrote:Kate stark wrote:sounds normal to me, i do it all the time. turn up to a belt, strip it clean, repeat. Can you run 12 ships at once? And would you have the entire fleet leave the system just because a lone miner showed up and lingered for a couple minutes?
Hate to tell you this but there are people playing eve right now running 20 odd mining accounts doing ice with no bot help whatsoever. What you saw probably was a bot, but it could have been one of these individuals, or 2 of them working together ( i know of a two brother team who run 25 accounts mining from 3 machines). Ore requires more work so the number of accounts manageable is less but its still pretty simple.
|
Doddy
Dark-Rising
835
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
Leon Ronuken wrote:ITTigerClawIK wrote:Leon Ronuken wrote:Kate stark wrote:sounds normal to me, i do it all the time. turn up to a belt, strip it clean, repeat. Can you run 12 ships at once? And would you have the entire fleet leave the system just because a lone miner showed up and lingered for a couple minutes? you would be supprised how many miners own a rediculus number of accounts and run them all at the same time. No one has yet speculated on the second point : why did they all depart so suddenly?
It was dinner time? |
Emma d'Acques
Vault Asset Management
25
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
Leon,
If you would be a multiboxer, running 20 mining ships, and you see a combat ship turn up in your belt, lingering for a while, you'd be thinking (most likely) that this is someone checking you out, and checking what the optimal location would be to gank you to oblivion (and back again).
I would personally be thinking this, after which I would simply warp out, and wait untill you leave local.
As this is EvE, suicide ganking is a practice a lot of pilots have gotten into, and it's just not worth the risk as a miner to just keep mining the same belt.
I'm not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example. |
luZk
x13
Whores in space
132
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:55:00 -
[27] - Quote
Anyone not replying in local is a bot and should be killed. |
Kate stark
252
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 16:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
luZk wrote:Anyone not replying in local is a bot.
simply not true.
Obvious Goon alt that's never mined a day in his life(!) |
luZk
x13
Whores in space
133
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 17:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
Kate stark wrote:luZk wrote:Anyone not replying in local is a bot. simply not true.
Your right, some of the better bots do reply in local but it's usually nonsense so it's easy to spot and they should be killed too. |
Leon Ronuken
Lime Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 17:47:00 -
[30] - Quote
Doddy wrote:
Hate to tell you this . . .
Unclear why telling the thread or me this is something you hate to do. This is an info-seeking thread, not a whine or complain thread. Even if it were bots, if the vets don't give a rip then I probably won't either.
I think the bumping mining ships is an excellent idea . . . a bot wouldn't respond to that. The community could even have a systematic search and response to the botters using techniques that include this.
|
Leon Ronuken
Lime Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 17:49:00 -
[31] - Quote
Emma d'Acques wrote:Leon,
If you would be a multiboxer, running 20 mining ships, and you see a combat ship turn up in your belt, lingering for a while, you'd be thinking (most likely) that this is someone checking you out, and checking what the optimal location would be to gank you to oblivion (and back again).
I was in a proc. I agree with your analysis if I had been in a combat ship, but in this case I presented as a regular miner which, as it turns out, I am.
Incidently Hjortur seems to be a prime location for this activity. It is a Mega-Belt system (many belts) but they are nearly always cleaned out or depleted very early in the Eve-Day. |
Emma d'Acques
Vault Asset Management
27
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 17:50:00 -
[32] - Quote
Leon,
There's already someone RP'ing his way through Miner Bumping.
I present you the following link.
Don't know if James315 is still active though, haven't been on much in the past weeks.
I'm not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example. |
destiny2
Abh Empire
Unclaimed.
123
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 17:51:00 -
[33] - Quote
Leon Ronuken wrote:Kate stark wrote:sounds normal to me, i do it all the time. turn up to a belt, strip it clean, repeat. Can you run 12 ships at once? And would you have the entire fleet leave the system just because a lone miner showed up and lingered for a couple minutes?
their some people who run 24 mining ships at once, altho being in a null alliance null mining is more porfatable then highsec ores. and a hell of alot safer too. |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
2400
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 17:59:00 -
[34] - Quote
Using the word 'Gold Farming' in an EvE forum makes me wanna troll you so bad you wont post right for a week.
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Klymer
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
143
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 18:05:00 -
[35] - Quote
posting in a stealth ban multiboxing thread
|
Google Voices
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
55
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 20:15:00 -
[36] - Quote
Leon Ronuken wrote:Kate stark wrote:sounds normal to me, i do it all the time. turn up to a belt, strip it clean, repeat. Can you run 12 ships at once? And would you have the entire fleet leave the system just because a lone miner showed up and lingered for a couple minutes?
It's called Isboxer....it's all the rage for the serious isk grinder.....
"Fozzie could not comment on when this issue would be resolved and stated that GÇ£one day Veritas will come up to me and say GÇÿhey I fixed off-grid boostingGÇÖGÇ¥, but he had no idea on a potential timeframe for this sort of miracle." |
Ashterothi
Aideron Robotics
160
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 20:21:00 -
[37] - Quote
If they talked to you, they probably are not gold farmers. Most people who sell isk use bots.
Aideron Robotics is hiring for the Gallente Federation war effort! https://www.aideronrobotics.com/wiki/Applying |
Jason Xado
Xado Industries
64
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 20:31:00 -
[38] - Quote
Please do not confuse multiboxing with botting, or in this case "Gold Farming". Thanks. |
Ohanka
227
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 20:34:00 -
[39] - Quote
Leon Ronuken wrote:Kate stark wrote:sounds normal to me, i do it all the time. turn up to a belt, strip it clean, repeat. Can you run 12 ships at once? And would you have the entire fleet leave the system just because a lone miner showed up and lingered for a couple minutes?
You must be new around here.
North Korea is Best Korea |
highonpop
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
470
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 20:36:00 -
[40] - Quote
This may have been answered:
It was a guy multi-boxing with a bot. CCP will allow bots that replicate a USER COMMAND across multiple clients. It will not allow a bot that replicates a programmed command.
IE
If the bot requires constant user interaction and just mimics the user, its ok.
If the bot is capable of running the clients with no user interaction.. its not ok.
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Very%20best%20of%20Makalu%20Zarya
The best advice I can give any Eve player, new or old, is to never ever ever read the general discussion subforum. It is a cancer on this game and should just be deleted. |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC
StructureDamage
450
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 20:43:00 -
[41] - Quote
Leon Ronuken wrote:No one has yet speculated on the second point : why did they all depart so suddenly?
A couple of reasons spring to mind:
1) the fleet was Retrievers, which have jetcan-sized ore holds. Generally, the best way to mine with a Retriever is to pick a station system and warp to station when the holds are full, empty them and warp back. Given identically fitted Retrievers and identically- or nearly-identically-skilled toons, the holds will fill at the same rate and the fleet will all warp at the same time in response to a fleet warp command. The Ventures were probably newer toons that warped with the Retrievers for the sake of simplicity.
2) gankers and bumpers are known to warp scouts into belts in mining ships so they won't arouse suspicion. If you warped in in a barge and lingered, without starting to mine yourself, the guy might have decided that discretion was the better part of valor and docked everyone up.
Both of these are entirely possible within the EVE EULA.
Malcanis, Ripard Teg, and Trebor Daehdoow for CSM 8
(I have three accounts, so why not?) |
Leon Ronuken
Lime Inc.
2
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 23:42:00 -
[42] - Quote
Ohanka wrote:Leon Ronuken wrote:Kate stark wrote:sounds normal to me, i do it all the time. turn up to a belt, strip it clean, repeat. Can you run 12 ships at once? And would you have the entire fleet leave the system just because a lone miner showed up and lingered for a couple minutes? You must be new around here.
Of course that should have been evident from the initial post. Yes.
|
Leon Ronuken
Lime Inc.
2
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 23:44:00 -
[43] - Quote
Jason Xado wrote:Please do not confuse multiboxing with botting, or in this case "Gold Farming". Thanks.
Gold Farming is a relatively well known phenomenon in the MMOG genre, and generally a problem depending on how the game is designed to handle it. So its not my word; didn't know how else to describe the possibility presented by what I saw.
|
Leon Ronuken
Lime Inc.
2
|
Posted - 2013.02.23 04:11:00 -
[44] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Leon Ronuken wrote:No one has yet speculated on the second point : why did they all depart so suddenly?
A couple of reasons spring to mind: 1) the fleet was Retrievers, which have jetcan-sized ore holds. Generally, the best way to mine with a Retriever is to pick a station system and warp to station when the holds are full, empty them and warp back. Given identically fitted Retrievers and identically- or nearly-identically-skilled toons, the holds will fill at the same rate and the fleet will all warp at the same time in response to a fleet warp command. The Ventures were probably newer toons that warped with the Retrievers for the sake of simplicity. 2) gankers and bumpers are known to warp scouts into belts in mining ships so they won't arouse suspicion. If you warped in in a barge and lingered, without starting to mine yourself, the guy might have decided that discretion was the better part of valor and docked everyone up. Both of these are entirely possible within the EVE EULA.
Excellent post.
|
Doddy
Dark-Rising
838
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 20:23:00 -
[45] - Quote
Leon Ronuken wrote:Doddy wrote:
Hate to tell you this . . .
Unclear why telling the thread or me this is something you hate to do.
Because its kind of embarassing to play a game that attracts such individuals.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 :: [one page] |