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Posted - 2003.07.20 05:25:00 -
[1]
Main point; Megacyte NPC price must come into line with PC prices or the ore will simply dissapear. Currently megacyte (bistot) is so far out in space that mining omber and kernite is more profitable, due to a failing in the closed mineral system in regard to megacyte (and only mega)
Currently roids respawn when mineral is either sold to NPC's or is destroyed (ie ships blown up). Also new mineral is added to the game when each new account is activated, as I understand it.
Bistot (mega)has been dissapearing from any system within about 20 to 30 jumps of a station. This is decreasing the profitablity of mining it to the extent it is no longer sold to NPCs and corporations are mostly mining it for the purpose of internal production (some very large mining corps are the exception) . The NPC price is nearly 2000isk lower than what real PC's are paying for it, and even at very high PC prices supply is very limited. Small corporations are not able to mine for mega to produce the goods that the market requires in a competitive fashion due to needing MANY ships to ferry bistot from very distant places and buyable supply being so tight as to be unable to produce large items with it consitently. Bistot is not being recycled back into space to be mined and it is the SOLE source of mega in the galaxy for all practical purposes now. I personally would like to grow as a miner (my profession) but I find its a dead end at kernite in terms of profitablity and only 2-3 ships online at most times.
In essence either supply has to be brought up in some fashion or demand has to go down. Here are some possible ways to acheive this.
1. Raise the NPC price so that folks will sell to npcs again and the ore will recycle and respawn.(I do not favor this one)
2. Develop a vastly inferior secondary source for mega and zyd much in the fashion you can get nox from Pyro. Any ore above omber and kernite could have a tiny bit of Zyd or mega added to it if it was done in the proper proportion. Heb and Hemo, could be used if the designers wanted mega availible in empire space and gniess and dark ocher used if the design team wants it outside of empire space. I strongly favor this option. Goal MUST be to bring npc prices in line with real prices or the ore containing the zyd and mega would simply dissapear as well.I strongly favor this one as it may begin to make sence to progress to better ores as a smaller mining company again.
Arknor is gone, bistot is now the sole source of Mega, its dissapearing too. The system is failing in regard to this mineral it needs some adjustment.
Does anyone else have any notions of how to get Megacyte recycling in this closed system as it should be?
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Vidar Kentoran
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Posted - 2003.07.20 05:35:00 -
[2]
I don't agree. Just because it's hard for you or some other people to get mega, doesn't mean anything is failing.
It's not _supposed_ to be easy, and the scarcity of mega doesn't seem to be affecting people's ability to sell ships for peanuts.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.07.20 05:42:00 -
[3]
Shut up Vidar and hand me over your megacyte, thanks. <3
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.07.20 05:45:00 -
[4]
There is a vastly inferior method of obtaining meg/zyd: recyling
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Ctaesis
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Posted - 2003.07.20 05:53:00 -
[5]
Many things are broken in EVE, but this is not one of them. Small corps can't mine bistot profitably while large corps can? I think that's not broken at all.
There used to be an ore in game "Spodumain" which has trace quantities of megacyte.
Furthermore, certain types of npc pirate loot has megacyte, so you can "farm npcs for mega".
________________
"Warp to Desktop" -- American PCGamer
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Jojin
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Posted - 2003.07.20 05:58:00 -
[6]
The items you have pointed out seem to be personal issues of frustration and not flaws within the system.
If you are unable to find a specific type of mineral to mine for profit, then just find another. This alternative mineral may not seem to be as profitable, but from a time (to find) and transport perspective it may actually be more profitable.
The NPC prices for minerals were setup to ensure there would always be a way to generate money; a safety net for play. Players are the ones who should be responsible for creating the supply and demand, which is what is occurring.
From my perspective, it seems the system is operating as it should in regards to mineral supply and demand. (Not considering the respawning û if it is flawed).
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Madame Papillon
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Posted - 2003.07.20 05:59:00 -
[7]
The fact that ship pricing is low really has nothing to do with the availability of Megacyte bearing ores. That is purely a feature of the game's player based economy. Which in my opinion will never work the way CCP might hope. (And yes one of my two majors in a Bachelor of Arts degree was in Economics!)
But there is a problem with ore spawns lately. Last week my Corp was mining in a 0.0 system for Bistot and the roids would barely yield 5-10 units each. Today we were mining for lesser ores like Jaspet and Kernite, in a 0.3 system, and were barely getting more than 30-40 units of ore per asteroid.
Now it's never been perfectly clear to me how the asteroids respawn. I'm not certain if thier content is limited by the ammount of ore and minerals in players inventories. Or if they just need time after respawn to "mature", or ripen like fruit. If we could get a definate clarification on this point by CCP. We could determine if there is an issue here. (*From the players perspective if there is an issue.)
I had heard that Pann suggested that the "tiny roid" respawn of Bistot was a bug. This is consistant with the way other roids have respawned lately. But I don't have a specific statement to refer to on the matter.
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Ends
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Posted - 2003.07.20 06:02:00 -
[8]
That is the main point, every other mineral is being recycled, mega is not due mainly to the disparity between npc price and real value. Thus its not resapawning its just dissapearing. Just like Arknor did. One way to get it to respawn is to bring NPC prices in line with the real value of the mineral in some way. Else soon all the Mega (Bistot) will be floating around in ships and it will become so rare as to work some havok on the markets ability to produce goods efficiently as well as squeezing smaller corps even more than they are now.
Edited by: Ends on 20/07/2003 06:04:32
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Crimsonjade
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Posted - 2003.07.20 06:11:00 -
[9]
battleships cost a lot of mega... but as far as i can tell mega is pretty plentiful. the reason it isnt respawing is because the devs stopped respawning it. has nothing to do with the lack of competitive pricing. at least thats what i heard...
No pain, no palm; no thorns, no throne; no gall, no glory; no cross, no crown.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.07.20 06:13:00 -
[10]
Bistot is currently only available in very deep space and very far from a station. They should atleast add a low yeild megacyte asteroid simular to how pyro yeilds nocxium.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Ronyo Dae'Loki
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Posted - 2003.07.20 06:38:00 -
[11]
From what I have heard, the Spodumain disappearing is due to a distrobution bug.
WHY they haven't fixed that yet is beyond me, but we all know there are alot of glaring problems that CCP seems to ignore.
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My salsa makes all the pretty girls want to dance and take off their underpants.
I <3 ( . Y . ) |
StealthNet
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Posted - 2003.07.20 07:56:00 -
[12]
Houston, we have a problem.
A Megathron is being sold at 120 mil. That's half the NPC price, even if making one will use 2.5 K of mega. Every single day prices drop fast. I wonder when megas will be at 60 mil...
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Intruders
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Posted - 2003.07.20 09:10:00 -
[13]
How sure r u ppl when you say that the Devs have stoped respawning mega?
If this holds any truth then it really sux, enouph with the nerfing, maybe we should just give them our money and not play the game so we wont have a burnout soon and continue paying.. that would really make them happy eh?
Every man lives..but not every man dies!
My sig sux |
Harper
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Posted - 2003.07.20 09:49:00 -
[14]
"How sure r u ppl when you say that the Devs have stoped respawning mega?"
Not at all, as every Dev/GM/Polaris you ask gives a different sodding answer.
Pann: "It's a bug!"
Polaris: "Asteroids grow with time!"
GMs: "There's a finite pool!"
(All): "Sorry, we have no information about the asteroid problem"
Ye gods, I wish CCP would do something to sort out their utterly reprehensible communications problems.
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Harper
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Posted - 2003.07.20 09:50:00 -
[15]
Oh, yea .. and bring back Spodumain, it'll solve a lot of problems.
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Callas
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Posted - 2003.07.20 10:07:00 -
[16]
 Quote:
Bistot (mega)has been dissapearing from any system within about 20 to 30 jumps of a station. This is decreasing the profitablity of mining it to the extent it is no longer sold to NPCs and corporations are mostly mining it for the purpose of internal production (some very large mining corps are the exception) .
This makes no sense. The harder it is to get hold of megacyte, the more the seller will charge.
There is no loss of profitability, only loss of volume of trade.
If the volume of megacyte available to a corp through their mining activity is so small that it only covers, or only partially covers, their own useage, then of course as you say they will have no excess megacyte to sell on the market, which leads to a reduction in the volume of trade.
The corp will however at all times charge a price for the megacyte they do sell which properly compensates them for the time spent and risk taken in obtaining the mineral.
Indeed, megacyte has never been anything other than correctly priced in the PC market; correctly priced meaning the seller makes a reasonable profit, once his costs have been taken into account.
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Callas
Edited by: Callas on 20/07/2003 10:11:24
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Intruders
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Posted - 2003.07.20 13:44:00 -
[17]
Harper
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Pann: "It's a bug!"
Polaris: "Asteroids grow with time!"
GMs: "There's a finite pool!"
(All): "Sorry, we have no information about the asteroid problem"
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ROTFL :-)
A) Polaris can come with me and show him everythink there is to know about mining in this game, If I make a mistake I bet all of my possesions to be his.
B) GM says: "There is no finite pool". If I understand what he was trying to say, without revealing much, then the way GM's have aranged spawning/selling of the ore cycles is nothing but a HUGE EXPLOIT that can be run from teams with huge mining capacity (read: large corporations) to freelances and small corporations, and thus to the rest of Eve players.
C) What makes you think they even communicate with themselves? :)
Why CCP stuff should be REALLY carefull especially with information they give to us regarding ore.
Who ever controls the secrets of ore, can make huge bux in Ebay from Eve to double, tripple his salary..
Did anyone catch my drift? :-)
Every man lives..but not every man dies!
My sig sux |
Ends
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Posted - 2003.07.20 13:49:00 -
[18]
Aye any price buyer and seller agree upon is the right price. However due to the fact we are in a artificial market that is closed, ie new ore does not come into the system (except when new players open an account). The system counts on the ore recycling in order to respawn. If there is no motivation for the ore to be sold to NPC's due to the price differental it doen't make it back into the system to respawn. Mineral that doesn't have a portion recycle simply quits spawning (eventually).
As far as the trade volume I agree with all of that, good post: )
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Callas
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Posted - 2003.07.20 13:58:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Aye any price buyer and seller agree upon is the right price.
I think I know what you're trying to say, but what you've actually said is incorrect.
There are without doubt trades where the buyer or seller are ill-informed and offer or accept a price which varies significantly from the rate which provides a reasonable profit; or it might be the seller holds an effective monopoly, in which case the price charged is not the lowest which provides a reasonably profit, but the highest that the richest buyers can afford.
So, by no means are all trades at the correct price.
Quote:
However due to the fact we are in a artificial market that is closed, ie new ore does not come into the system (except when new players open an account). The system counts on the ore recycling in order to respawn. If there is no motivation for the ore to be sold to NPC's due to the price differental it doen't make it back into the system to respawn. Mineral that doesn't have a portion recycle simply quits spawning (eventually).
A similar point was raised in a earlier post; "no NPC manufacturing, no NPC mineral demand!"
This argument is incorrect because NPC mineral demand *already* does not relate in any way to NPC manufacturing. NPC mineral demand is entirely arbitrary.
NPCs can still demand minerals, despite not manufacturing anything. I don't have a problem with this.
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Callas
Edited by: Callas on 20/07/2003 14:00:19
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Intruders
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Posted - 2003.07.20 13:58:00 -
[20]
Very good :)
Which in plain words means, if I (a player) mine the hell out of a system and just keep the ore in my hangar and wont sell it, then, any other corp mining in same area, wont find any of the ores they seek to mine in that specific system, thus I can easily drive them away from the system and keep it all for me.. Who cares if fact. slots or lab. slots are taken, since I can own the "ore slots"? Freeing fact/lab slots? Big deal, I should see you CCP guys try to free the "ore slots" first and foremost.
This can be used as an exploit CCP, what did you actually had in mind when you were planing things this way may I ask?
And thank you for the wonderfull strategy guides and all those helpfull tips you provide us from time to time CCP so we dont get to grope in the dark.. making more time to sort things out..
ROTFL.
Wait..I hear voices from the near future...many voices chanting together.."I want my money back..I want my money back". :)
Edited by: Intruders on 20/07/2003 14:01:10
Every man lives..but not every man dies!
My sig sux |
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