Nobody uses the Micro or Small shield extenders. Frigates get a medium, and anything cruiser and above uses large.

I think that with the current buffs to active armour tanking, and presumably more on the way, that it is time that shield tankers had an answer to the 1600mm plate, and I'd also like to propose that the lower sized shield extenders be buffed so they might actually be used. The idea is that Frigates use the micro and smalls, cruisers and BCs use the medium, and BS use the large. Here's my suggestions:

Micro Shield Extender II (slightly worse than 200mm plate)
PG/CPU: 1/17
Shield: +550
Sig Radius: +3

Small Shield Extender II (carbon copy of current MSE II, slightly worse than 400mm plate)
PG/CPU: 31/34
Shield: +1050
Sig Radius: +7

Medium Shield Extender II (slight nerf on current LSE II, slightly worse than 800mm plate)
PG/CPU: 160/46
Shield: +2350
Sig Radius: +23

Large Shield Extender II (slightly worse than the 1600mm plate)
PG/CPU: 180/100
Shield: +4700
Sig Radius: +50

Well..no. Active Shield tanking is better than active armor tanking (Ancillary shield booster). So its fair enough that armor buffer tanking is supirior to shield buffer tanking. Also shields have a passive regen, where armor has higher overall resists.

50mm and 100mm plates are useless as well, they need to be made useful/removed along with small extenders.

That large extender buff would be overpowered though.

So, you're perfectly happy with buffs to active armour tanking, but not with buffs to buffer shield tanking? Hypocritical much?

Agreed. Personally I would just remove them. There are already way more sizes of plates than are actually needed.



How so?

So, you're perfectly happy with buffs to active armour tanking, but not with buffs to buffer shield tanking? Hypocritical much?

Add speed penalty to shield extenders. There, balanced.

Please not another lets make shield and armour tanking the same thread!

the smaller plates 20mm and 100mm are indeed very rarely used but the 200mm plates are used in plenty of frig pvp fits.

and yes the small extender is also very rarely used but it is used....but generally most people fit something else instead.

stop trying to make shield and armour the same. For active or buffer. THEY ARE DIFFERENT!

Practically no one uses plates on cruisers

In a bad situation that MSE is just making it so the noob with crap weapons support skills has an easier target to hit lol.

Agreed. Personally I would just remove them. There are already way more sizes of plates than are actually needed.



How so?

So, you're perfectly happy with buffs to active armour tanking, but not with buffs to buffer shield tanking? Hypocritical much?

It's so cute how you people think passive regen is relevant.

But it is.
a Drake can passively tank 200-300 DPS as a pvp fit. But increasing total Shield HP you get more Passive tank... A Drake can already have 100k EHP buffer, with 200-300 Passive tank... How is Passive regen not relevant to the subject?

Post this PvP DRAEK with 100k eHP and 300 eHP/sec passive tank. I need a good laugh, and the only way you're getting anywhere CLOSE to those numbers is by doing something stupid or otherwise fudging things.

a. 2% over on CPU
b. 3% over on PG
c. 99,875 eHP
d. 193 eHP/sec passive regen

You're over on fittings, requiring at least 2 fittings implants (I assume the 2 Genolution implants), and you're short by a looong way on your claims of 300/sec passive regen.

If you fly a drake, you use PG Implants.
Also since i actually use implants you reach past the 100k EHP point. with 200-300 Passive regen.

But the part you seem to forget is that if you made the Large Shield Extender have 4k HP instead of the current 2625 HP. it'll be way too op. The Drake is great as it is.

Hey, if we're going to use implants, then I have a 200k eHP prophecy that would like to have a word, and all that took was a set of slaves and a couple 'noble' implants. How long does it take to regenerate 90,000 eHP at 300/sec? About 5 minutes.

Please note the increase in fittings for the 4k HP LSE. Sure its nice to have a larger shield extender, but your current DRAEK is already over on fitting, and still only barely breaks HALF the eHP of a prophecy. This new XLSE has increased fitting requirements. It's not like I'm trying to just hand out an extra couple thousand eHP to shield ships. You can't even remove 2 LSEs and add one XLSE, because the CPU cost of one XLSE is more than double two LSEs.

If you fly a drake, you use PG Implants.
Also since i actually use implants you reach past the 100k EHP point. with 200-300 Passive regen.

But the part you seem to forget is that if you made the Large Shield Extender have 4k HP instead of the current 2625 HP. it'll be way too op. The Drake is great as it is.

You can't really change the effective sizes of mods like this.

All the fits in eve would break for no good reason.

Theres an argument for a better buffer mod at the top end for shield now that armor has had a significant active buff.

An XL shield extender with double the stats of a large would be the way to do it though.

We would not want to hand over piles of isk to the Micro and Small shield extender T2 BPO holders.

I think that with the current buffs to active armour tanking, and presumably more on the way, that it is time that shield tankers had an answer to the 1600mm plate, and I'd also like to propose that the lower sized shield extenders be buffed so they might actually be used.

Well..no. Active Shield tanking is better than active armor tanking (Ancillary shield booster). So its fair enough that armor buffer tanking is supirior to shield buffer tanking. Also shields have a passive regen, where armor has higher overall resists.

I'd actually be open to this idea if it replace sig radius going to crap. Its not like most of the caldari ships I fly will bring home 1st place finishes from quartermile runs on trackday now anyway.

the reason the largest extenders you can get now is LSE II is because of passive recharge scaling with shield size

Yes, because it matters.

It should usually make up between 5 and 10% of your final active tank. You want to give that up?

edit: Oh whoops we're talking extenders not actual tanking. Yeah my bad.

No, talking pure buffer, it doesn't really end up being significant unless you build the tank around it, which has its own drawbacks. I'll bow out of this.

It's also pretty useless on anything that isn't a Drake (or a Rattlesnake)

Our standard Rokh got 20k EHP in it's shields

Wow, you must have a really **** standard Rokh fit.

Well i wouldn't call it a good buff for active armor tanking. Despite the lower PG need and the from lower speed to higher PG need on armor rigs, the rep amount and extrem long cycle time on the armor reppers stayed the same.

If shield tankers get a x-large shield extender, then I demand a x-large armor repper or at least shorter cycle time and a capless ancillary armor repper. But were would be the difference then to shield tanking I ask?

No you dont need all those things , armor just got a 300% boost to active burst tanking as well as the speed improvements.
Thats a significant lift to small operation active boosting.
Given that was previosley the domain of shield and large ship tanking is the realm of armor. there needs to be improvement in large ship shield buffer tanking to maintain the overall effectiveness of both systems.

Sp despite buffer tanking being meant to be better for armor yet you want an x l extender and deny mods similar to what armor doesn't have an equal to?
Hypocrite

Active armor repping just had its massive boost
Oblivious moron.

Active armor repping just had its massive boost
Oblivious moron.

Active armor repping just had its massive boost
Oblivious moron.

Yes, because it matters.

Just wanted to say that I do infact use 200mm plates on the Punisher, along with a small rep and a nos. Bleeder punisher ftw!

Aye, I use a similar fit on Rifters as well. 800mm plates do get used on some of my cruisers also. The ones that aren't bait tanked anyway.

I checked my Maelstrom fit eariler... 14 hp/sec passive tank. I figured with a passive tank that high, I could take the repper off.

You really don't know how Shield recharge work do you? Every ship got a normal recharge time. Maelstroms being 1875 seconds. To decrease that you need Shield Rechargers or Power Relays, to decrease that time. Or you can use Shield Extenders to make your total shield higher. You get some more sig radius but armor tank lose agility.

God dammit.

I am well aware how passive shield tanking works. Just as I am well aware how completely useless it is if you don't fit for it. Most fights take several minutes for that passive recharge to amount to anywhere close to the extra hit points that an armour tanker would have just had the whole time.

A Drake (with fititng implants) gets about 100,000 EHP and 193/sec passive recharge. To do this it gets only a long point, with 8 slots dedicated to tank and 3 damage mods (standard)

A Prophecy with no implants, can get 132,000 EHP. It has an 8 slot tank, MWD, scram, web, and 3 damage mods. It will take 2 minutes and 45 seconds for the Drake to passively regenerate enough HP to cover the 32k extra hp that the Prophecy has had since the start of the engagement. Oh, that's assuming that the Drake gets peak recharge the whole time. It doesn't.

Oh, and 5 neuts. Did I mention the Prophecy can fit 5 neuts with all that tank? Enough neuting power to drain that Drake's cap dry in under 30 seconds, at which point the Drake has 47,417 EHP and only 87/sec passive recharge. Which leads to the Prophecy killing the Drake every time.

The current Drake can NEVER regenerate enough hp from passive recharge to offset the raw buffer deficit it starts with.

Stuff.

Oh so you're saying being limited to one anc repper that still drains cap is a massive boost? Idiot

Calculate the amount of cap used by a small anc repper ( with chanrges loaded ) to rep 1000hp
Now calculate the amount of cap used by a standard repper to do the same.

Realise you are thick and need to have things explained to you.

Now add all that up to that you buy **** expensive charges and end up with only being able to fit one, so you need a normal repper anyway, because it's reload time is 60 seconds....

Actually there is. Stay out of 12,6KM (Med neut range) since it's only got 1 web you fit one or fly away.

Calculate the amount of cap used by a small anc repper ( with chanrges loaded ) to rep 1000hp
Now calculate the amount of cap used by a standard repper to do the same.

Realise you are thick and need to have things explained to you.

Honestly, its got 4 mids. Fit 2 webs on the Proph. Alternatively, web drones are good for getting into range, and the Proph has a HUGE drone bay. You cannot stay out of range of my Proph. If you engage, you die.

So either you're lacking a MWD or a cap booster, you can wave goodbye either way that Drake is going to fly away if he knows what's up. Neut boats are good, but they need a fleet to function properly.

The prophecy has 4 mids. 2 webs, MWD, scram. if you want to engage, you're going to be inside 17kms for your HAMs to hit. And it doesn't need a cap injector. It can run everything for 10 minutes until it is in range. Once it is in range it doesn't need the MWD, the Drake will be dual-webbed and going nowhere.

Like I said, if you engage, you're going to die.

EDIT: And before you say it, no you can't kite. 5 web drones will slow you down enough that the prophecy is faster, at which point you either warp out VERY fast, or you die. That's if you even notice the drones before its too late. I've only had one guy shoot my drones so far. no one expects web drones, so they get ignored a lot.

[Prophecy, Pvp Bufer]
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II

[empty med slot]
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II

Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Small Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I


Hammerhead II x5
Ogre II x3