| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jongon
   |
Posted - 2005.08.06 09:22:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Jongon on 06/08/2005 09:22:43
I read in another thread that once an outpost is built, it can never be destroyed. WTF is my first response.
If an outpost can never be destroyed, EVE is going to become littered with them, we are also going to see them being put up in every decent area around EVE, noone is going to need to fight as everyone will have their own spot and on top of everything, even if someone does decide they want to blow one up, they cant, all they can do is capture it and unless they decide to MOVE in permanently, the original owner will just capture it back.
This looks like a step in the wrong direction to me, i thought this was supposed to be a decent pvp game but with mechanics like this i fear its taking a step closer to the likes of DAOC or WOW.
We have fights where dying actually means losing what you have, lets not tone it down on a large level by making them PERMANENT once built.
|
Doc Brown
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 09:26:00 -
[2]
They are capturable, who ever controls the most POS's in the system controls the Outpost.
Take out the POS, get the outpost. Let the POS's run out of fuel, get the POS.
_________________________________________________
There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations. |
Elektra Storm
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 09:28:00 -
[3]
They can be captured, they wont litter systems as currently there can be only one per star system, and you need soverenty i.e. a POS.
|
sonofollo
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 09:28:00 -
[4]
well its 0.0 zones POS can be built in low sec - outposts will be 0.0 land only they are part stations basically. They cost a lot and even if you get 2 or 3 per system and 30-40 ove an alliance area it will lead to much more close combat in 0.0 land allowing alliances to be more involved.
With dreads bouncing around probbaly a good idea - and as the player base expands it will bucnh up alliances in the small zones that are basically unused mostly now.
Good all round and it opens up low sec and 0.0 trading markets to.
|
mahhy
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 09:29:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Jongon
all they can do is capture it and unless they decide to MOVE in permanently, the original owner will just capture it back.
This looks like a step in the wrong direction to me
I kind of agree actually. But I can see the point in making them indestructible as well.
What I'd personally hope to see is something in between the two. Once a Outpost is captured there is no delay in taking all the corp hangars, personal hangars, etc. That way theres at least some risk for the owning Alliance that if they allow their Outpost to be captured, all their assets in that POS will be gone.
|
sonofollo
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 09:33:00 -
[6]
lol i remember in the FIX - MASS war MASS wanted access to the FAT station assets lol.
That said in terms of outposts as opposed to the player conquerouble stations that assets could be accessible to the conquerouring corp or alliance.
|
Jongon
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 09:36:00 -
[7]
I know they can be captured, but i hear they cant be destroyed.
You should be able to totally destroy one, first by destroying all POS in the system and then the outpost should be up for attack and capture or COMPLETE DESTRUCTION.
|
sonofollo
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 09:38:00 -
[8]
well to build one costs 35B (corp or allaince exercise) so they are mini conquerouble stations with racial roles.
1 per system ensures they are indestructable and if another alliance gains all theri POS then system soverengcy is transferred.
CCP wanted to populate 0.0 and to have such big assets destroyable is the wrong idea so therefore leave it as it is. Its totally acceptible as is - POS are destructable leave it at that .
|
mahhy
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 09:40:00 -
[9]
Originally by: sonofollo
lol i remember in the FIX - MASS war MASS wanted access to the FAT station assets lol.
That said in terms of outposts as opposed to the player conquerouble stations that assets could be accessible to the conquerouring corp or alliance.
What? Don't know who the heck you're talking about but I can't think of a single MASS member that had any assets in the FAT station. I would guess you're tihnking of a different corp, not that it matters.
My point is that PCS/Outposts (same thing, really) are too easy to "not worry about". I'm not even 100% sure its possible to "take" the enemy corp hangars in a PCS (I've only ever shot at them, I don't have any access to control the thing once we own it, etc). That makes the original owners less likely to really try to defend their base. They can come back in a few days, or a week, and work at it then.
Make it so PCS/Outposts, once conquered immediately give up all their assests to the controlling corp. It'll encourage the original owners to stay close by, adding yet another incentive to Alliances to claim smaller chunks of space.
|
Ithildin
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 09:52:00 -
[10]
The reason the player consrtuctible stations cannot be destroyed is to protect assets inside. A secondary reason is that you can't place sentries around said station - it doesn't have all the nifty defences a POS does.
Which game was it that people left because of "naked runs" and thieves stealing house keys (houses cost a fourtune and then some ***** comes along and steals the key)?
Also, having loads of inaccesible assets in a station makes for excellent catalyst for war and conflict. EVE isn't about destruction vs construction, it's about conflict. If you device game mechanics which allows a group of players to end conflicts by presenting an absolute iron curtain over precious areas in EVE, then all we'll see is a handful of players in empire and none in 0.0. 0.0 is where all the real combat brews, and removing all reason for going out there and claim/reclaim assets is essentially basic stupidity.
If you want to blow up assets, then by all means go attack a Starbase. After all, you're going to have to in order to have a chance of taking a shot at the station in the first place.
--
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please.
Josameto III - Moon 1 |
|
|
Sobeseki Pawi
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 09:56:00 -
[11]
Let me put up 12 sentry guns and a perimeter shield and you can shoot at it all day for all I care.
~Sobe
Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss
Combat Pilot and looking for a corp? Check AGSYN out here |
Rawthorm
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 11:36:00 -
[12]
IMO they need to release weapon platform then make the stations destroyable.
I love eve for the fact that it does not try to bubble wrap the player and protect them from a good spanking, and yet now players get an invincible asset in 0.0 no less!
They NEED to be destroyable (hell not like its easy. Look how long the shields last...now imagine doing the same to the armour and hull? You'd need a huge fleet to take it in one day so its not like its an easy task.)
|
Jongon
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 13:00:00 -
[13]
Yes like i said, 1 giant step further to EVE turning into just another cookie clutter mmorpg.
|
Karoth Tyu
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 13:18:00 -
[14]
Considering they cost about 30 billion isk (conservatively) to build and require huge amounts of multi-corp coordination to establish, I wouldn't necessarily be expecting to see these outposts all over the place like you imagine.
|
Rawthorm
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 13:43:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Karoth Tyu
Considering they cost about 30 billion isk (conservatively) to build and require huge amounts of multi-corp coordination to establish, I wouldn't necessarily be expecting to see these outposts all over the place like you imagine.
No, but the number will build up over time as they cant be removed :p
I think atm the problem lies in the game removing a dockable structure.
If you notice an outpost only completes after downtime as the game is incapable of adding dockable objects live.
I think the same is true about their removal but then all CCP needs to do is make it so once you kill the station it remains in place and on fire and denies all docking requests until downtime when it is removed and some station ruins get left in its place.
|
Keta Min
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 13:52:00 -
[16]
while total destruction is desirable sometimes, conquering the outpost still means a 35b loss (or whatever the cost is) to your target if they can't reclaim it.
|
Karoth Tyu
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 14:16:00 -
[17]
I personally hope that outposts are everywhere in the next few months. It might give rise to what 0.0 was really supposed to be about: Solar system or constellation-sized pocket kingdoms in the hands of small corps or groups of corps, instead of massive multi-region alliances that have 4000 members but only 30 online at any given time.
Outposts are actually something that should have been in the game during release. Adding them now is probably too little too late in the effort to get people out of empire space.
|
Larno
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 14:56:00 -
[18]
No, outposts will not popup everywhere over time. Why? Because If I build an outpost in a system with 20+ belts of Merc/Ark/Bist/Crok then I definately ain't gonna need a second refining oupost!! Also, if you've ever been there you will realise that well over 75% of 0.0 space is total crap, and almost pointless. Noone is going to build a refining outpost in a system that does not have at least 10+ belts of the forementioned minerals.
Each region has 2 or 3 pockets of decent ore. Take Feythabolis for example. There are 3 main pockets. DB1R-4 is one, GHZ-SJ is another, and finally D4-2XN area is another (large pocket). Of course there is still decent ore (ark) in other areas, e.g. VNGJ-U (I think), but noone is going to build an outpost there, as there are a) better places and b) its too close to other areas, where potential enemies lie.
Infact, I would go as far as to say that an alliance would not build more than 3-4 outposts in it's entire claimed area simply because there is no need! An outposts costs 30-35 bil, and a hell of a lot of manpower to setup, you would not build more unless the existing ones are not sufficient. As long as you have everything you need in 3-4 systems then the only reason to claim other areas is to stop potential hostiles trying to setup there.
Finally, the main reason why the universe won't be 'littered' with outposts, is because it is *MUCH* easier to steal others than it is to build your own. If you put this into perspective, you could afford 30-35bil worth of ships to make it worthwhile to steal one instead of building you're own. In terms of insured ships, thats what, 45 dreads, plus 300 battleships?
The only exception to this I can think of, is if a new alliance 'spawned' with no PvP power, and they only way they would acquire an outpost is by building one themselves.
----------
"Whining gets you stuff, that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed." |
Stormfront
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 15:01:00 -
[19]
The whole POS/NPC/Sovreignty thing is bugged. We are just beta testing it at the moment in Tranquility. I would recommend you not taking ANYTHING for granted.
|
MaiLina KaTar
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 16:10:00 -
[20]
Originally by: "OP"
noone is going to need to fight as everyone will have their own spot and on top of everything, even if someone does decide they want to blow one up, they cant, all they can do is capture it and unless they decide to MOVE in permanently, the original owner will just capture it back.
If "they" don't want to move in permanently, why attack?
Mai's Idealog |
|
|
mahhy
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 17:26:00 -
[21]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
If "they" don't want to move in permanently, why attack?
Fun? Politics? Grudges? "Just cause"? 
|
Jeaila Brightstar
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 17:57:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Larno
No, outposts will not popup everywhere over time. Why? Because If I build an outpost in a system with 20+ belts of Merc/Ark/Bist/Crok then I definately ain't gonna need a second refining oupost!! Also, if you've ever been there you will realise that well over 75% of 0.0 space is total crap, and almost pointless. Noone is going to build a refining outpost in a system that does not have at least 10+ belts of the forementioned minerals.
What's going the be the deciding factor of outpost location will likely be the number of moons available to put up stations. If you an find a 4-5 moon system, you can fairly cheaply place heavily defended POS at each moon without going bankrupt from fuel costs. I would say a system with the proper ice fields for that type of control tower as well would be optimal.
|
Wild Rho
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 19:17:00 -
[23]
Can more than one outpost be built in a system?
|
Kai Lae
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 21:45:00 -
[24]
No.
|
Kinderschokolade
|
Posted - 2005.08.06 22:52:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Kinderschokolade on 06/08/2005 22:53:01
Well with all those POS bugs I wouldnŠt even think about building an outpost. You cannot defend it, because the POSs are a piece of bugged crap and I am 100% sure, that those outposts will be bugged to no end also.
DonŠt waste you money on them.
|
Ticondrius
|
Posted - 2005.08.07 00:15:00 -
[26]
My question is, if all soveriegnty is lost, who then controls the station? If the attackers leave after popping all the POS int he system, the station becames just like a normal conquerable, with the exception that an enemy raising just one POS and claimining soveriegnty automatically takes the outpost?
"If I'm brutally honest and it offends you, that's not my fault." |
The Enslaver
|
Posted - 2005.08.07 00:18:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Doc Brown
They are capturable, who ever controls the most POS's in the system controls the Outpost.
Take out the POS, get the outpost. Let the POS's run out of fuel, get the POS.
Nope.
They function in the same way as a PCS does now - if it is owned by a faction that does not have sovereignty, it becomes capturable, etc.
--------
FireFoxx80: If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU. |
pringprang
|
Posted - 2005.08.07 01:38:00 -
[28]
Outposts need to be indestructible because they give people a reason to be in 0.0 and something to fight over. 3 PCSes are not enough to support a decent population in most of the regions. Outposts allow groups of players to finally add their own mark to the space they call their home. Being able to build something permanent in your small corner of the game is huge. It gives people a reason to live down in 0.0 and it gives them more reasons to fight for it.
Pvp is not offensive only. You can't build a game where people get better and better at destroying things but nothing ever changes defensively. An outpost gives players a spot to refit and rearm, a place to build ships and ammo, and a place to organize a defensive fleet. Making it indestructable ensures that the biggest group of people flying around on any given day can't destroy the huge investment of another large group. I can gather up 80 friends and go have a blast, destroy a pos or two, and capture an outpost but unless I'm absolutely commited to keeping it and making use of it the outpost will still be there when I get bored.
Outposts are bigger and better than freighters, dreads, and the pvp timer. The best part of this patch is that it finally allows players to affect the space they play in and make their mark on the eve universe.
|
theRaptor
|
Posted - 2005.08.07 01:54:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Rawthorm
IMO they need to release weapon platform then make the stations destroyable.
I love eve for the fact that it does not try to bubble wrap the player and protect them from a good spanking, and yet now players get an invincible asset in 0.0 no less!
They NEED to be destroyable (hell not like its easy. Look how long the shields last...now imagine doing the same to the armour and hull? You'd need a huge fleet to take it in one day so its not like its an easy task.)
They are called POS for ****s sake.
Outposts are capturable. No one wants to blow up capturable stations. If you have the ability to destroy a outpost you can just capture it and prevent any other corp/alliance docking. They have to be actively defended constantly. They arent POS with uber sentries protecting them. One of the current problems with 0.0 is that some regions aren't worth using because its twenty jumps to a decent station.
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
-- Ancient "Dirt" Religious figure. |
The Enslaver
|
Posted - 2005.08.07 02:08:00 -
[30]
Originally by: theRaptor
Outposts are capturable. No one wants to blow up capturable stations. If you have the ability to destroy a outpost you can just capture it and prevent any other corp/alliance docking. They have to be actively defended constantly. They arent POS with uber sentries protecting them. One of the current problems with 0.0 is that some regions aren't worth using because its twenty jumps to a decent station.
Quoted for truth.
--------
FireFoxx80: If you think you can do a better job, go find yourself a datacentre to host a box, get a copy of Visual Studio, and STFU. |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |