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Yangja Isuko
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Posted - 2003.07.21 06:07:00 -
[1]
i know it's a 'cool' feature and gets people some statistics and such, but in reality it's a highly disruptive force to corporate operations in the outer rim.
last night, for example. A pirate force noticed the massive mining operation we were on, as it lit up the outer rim like a christmas tree, took us by surprise and pinned us down without the ability to regroup.
So we called in reinforcements, a large fleet was on it's way. The pirates fled minutes before the fleet arrived, having tracked it's approach through the pilots in space feature.
the pilots in space feature is too disruptive and should imo be canned. it's cool to look at, but it serves no legit purpose.
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Athan
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Posted - 2003.07.21 06:09:00 -
[2]
Seconded.
-Ath
--
http://big.wayland.dk/Lottery.asp - The BIG Lottery |
SISQO
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Posted - 2003.07.21 06:11:00 -
[3]
How about a middle ground solution. Show pilots only work in empire owned space. As its perfectly reasonable that empires know exactly how many pilots are in their systems.
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Askari
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Posted - 2003.07.21 09:03:00 -
[4]
so all the pirates get forced out to 0.0, and now you want to remove one of the functions that allows them to operate in 0.0 space...
Im sorry, but i disagree on this one.
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~= Askari =~
Urza's Factory
http://www.mikeward.uk.com/urzas
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Greeble
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Posted - 2003.07.21 09:04:00 -
[5]
How about making it a skill, such that the better one is at the skill, the further out one can see these concentrations of players in space? Starting with just within one jump of the current system, to pluck a number from thin air.
There could be a companion skill that would allow the user to get detail on who's doing what, maybe. Call it communications tapping or something (although blatantly that doesn't fit in with the communications scifi that Eve uses).
- Greeble
Polaris BugHunter |
Vidar Kentoran
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Posted - 2003.07.21 09:39:00 -
[6]
Why not just turn PvP off? It's already more or less turned off in Empire space, so I mean really...
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Illion
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Posted - 2003.07.21 10:06:00 -
[7]
Turn PvP off..? Are you mad..?
What about pirates and police etc..? You'd remove half the game...!!
Try playing footy without goals...
Ill.
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Endyl
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Posted - 2003.07.21 10:30:00 -
[8]
I do not agree.
You can't just get advantages from the map feature.
Map let you know where blockades are running.
Map let pirates know where you are hanging out.
Now that you know, just have enough defense ships, you still get the advantage of being the one already sitting in the belt and having the defender role and not the attacker.
You can still hire mercenary defensive corps services to help you in this task, so if you want to optimize your own mining operations and have all your members with miners equiped.
Edited by: Endyl on 21/07/2003 10:32:31
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2003.07.21 10:59:00 -
[9]
I agree with the people who disagree :-)
As has just been pointed out, apart from being a really interesting and attractive map-view option it also helps in identifying where potential blockades are where the pirates are sensible enough not to shoot everything on sight. Best way to protect an out of the way mining operation is to take guns and be prepared to leg it. Bistot is no use to you if you try and take that last 32m3 with you to the grave.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Rymar Vortox
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Posted - 2003.07.21 11:19:00 -
[10]
I dissagree, leave it in. I use it.
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Prydeless
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Posted - 2003.07.21 11:40:00 -
[11]
I don't think it should be removed completely.
What I think should happen is that it only shows pilots in systems with stations, but not all stations. If you're in pirate owned regions, you should only be able to see pilots in space/docked in those regions. Same goes for empire owned regions.
I would also like the ability to see the ships destroyed and players podded removed from systems without stations and leave it up to victims to report it themselves through some kind of reporting feature. When they dock at a station they'll be allowed to make a report once everytime their ships are destroyed and/or when they are podded. They could make a false report for any reason if they want to and these reports will be reflected on the map.
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Knaar
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Posted - 2003.07.21 11:47:00 -
[12]
I use it a lot to figure out a good place to mine in empire space. A system with a lot of players in it, is generally a system with very little good ore left. When you're hunting for a nice cluster of kernite roids so you can mine a few hours without having to move, it's great to know that there's no one else around to steal your ore too. Without the feature I'd have to do a lot more flying around wasting my time.
Plus, the fact that pirates can find out where you are in 0.0 space is probably a good thing. I mean, if you're a pirate, you're looking at the possibility of never going into empire space ever again. That pretty much eliminates the chance of any lazy isk getting methods such as trade, high sec mining, and manufacturing for sales. If they can't find kills, being a pirate would really suck.
0.0 space is supposed to be pirate-ridden and dangerous. Mining bistot is supposed to be very difficult to do. I suggest you hire armed gaurd or bring your own cronies next time. I mean, you can't very well eliminate pvp... I know some people don't like pvp, but for gosh sakes stay in empire space if you're one of those people.
Knaar
Director of Trade and Production
Hosokawa Incorporated |
Lithorus
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Posted - 2003.07.21 11:48:00 -
[13]
They could do so you can only see number of pilots in your current constellation and the neighbour constellation. Same with number of stations. These features have really destroyed the exploring proffession and has taking out all fun of exploring.
Since it was added alot of corps were hurt when going out and finding the rare ores while others could just look up number of pirates in the far out regions and just take advantage of other peoples work.
Edited by: Lithorus on 21/07/2003 11:50:32
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Phersephone
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Posted - 2003.07.21 11:49:00 -
[14]
better idea.... why not use the same option to see who is coming towards you???
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Yangja Isuko
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:19:00 -
[15]
you shouldn't be able to KNOW about blockades beforehand by just looking at a map. just like pirates shouldn't be able to know where to hunt from just looking at a map. you all want it easy, but this feature is disrupting corporate life for many. it should be shot and executed.
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Sphalerite
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:28:00 -
[16]
Rather than turning it off or not, why not turn in into something faction based? If you're in good with Sansha's Nation, they'll tell you where the people are in their space. Do some missions for the Caldari State if you want to know if there's a blockade in Obe.
This way, people can still get the information they want, but they have to work for it. It also adds more use for agents.
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Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:45:00 -
[17]
i realize you're annoyed, but -
1) massive mining op in lawless space without proper armed escort?
2) they saw you - you could have seen them. If they took you by surprise, you weren't checking the map.
Really, it sounds like you simply weren't expecting to be attacked. No escort, no lookouts, no scouts, no one checking map, and no plan to run or scatter if discovered. While being bushwhacked sucks, i don't think a failure in planning should equal the removal of a game feature....
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.21 12:54:00 -
[18]
I say it should stay.
It works in the same way for everyone. If you are in a corp running an op, it still works the same as if you were a pirate attmpting to raid that op.
If it only worked for the pirates, then I would see it as unbalancing. But it works for everyone.
In fact, it's more useful for non-pirates, as pirates are generally stationary, whereas everyone else moves around a little, making the map generally useless for hunting.
.
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Greeble
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Posted - 2003.07.21 13:03:00 -
[19]
Another idea I had is for each player to have a setting "broadcast sensor data", which would update this map automatically for the data it shows. Then, when viewing the map, you see the data, along with a "last seen" attribute, so you know how out of date the data is.
You would be able to choose whether to broadcast your sensor data to just friendlies, or all ships, or whoever. It could be attached to a skill, such that the better you are at the skill, the more detail the data goes into.
This, along with the ability to "subscribe" to datastreams from individuals and groups, could create a more concrete scout occupation. You would hire someone to fly to some location, and your map would be automatically updated depending on what's there, or what's going on.
- Greeble
Polaris BugHunter |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.07.21 13:21:00 -
[20]
"Pilots in space", "Ships destroyed", "Pirate and police faction ships destroyed" (et al)
All should be changed in the following fashion:
Such data should only be available for Empire space AND thoe non-empire system with a freindly-faction station present in them (eg sisters of eve systems in pure-blind)
All non-empire systems without a station should have no data at all....
However:
When a Player-built station is errected in a system that station's owner should have the CHOICE whether or not to be connected into the "galactic net".
If they chose to do so than that system will then dislay relevant stats.
If they chose not too then the fact there is a station there, but not updating the Gal-net, should be shown.
What this does:
This adds a level of immersion. There is a "reason" why these stats are known (the local stations keep track of them and update a Galactic Information Network) and there is also a reason why such stats would NOT be known (either no stations to keep track or a station not part of the network).
It also gives the player a measure of choice "add to the gal-net or not" - obviously those of a shadier character may well not want to publicise their presence.
- - - -
The system is easily created from what is currently in game now.
It can be extended so that players would need to subscribe to various "nodes" of the Galactic Net (Sister of EVE, Mordu's Legion and so forth, non-empire space but sovereign to somebody).
Until such a subscription is paid then no data should be available.
Really I would like too see this extended to the EMpire Factions themselves - an Amarr character would get Amarr EMpire information for free, but would have too subscribe for Caldari etc etc etc etc.
Negative sec-status players (below -5) wouldn't have access except via "blackmarket/agent" sources.
And so on and so forth.
I feel this is a much stronger version than what currently exists and offers a lot ore room for immersion and story elements - as well as involving the players via both their normal characters and station builders.
Hiding "what goes on" in empire space from negative-sec players also carries its own value, both for immersion, gameplay (the extension of a need for that info to some pirates) and story.
Those that don't want the information need not pay for it.. those that do will.
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Edited by: Morkt Drak on 21/07/2003 13:21:39
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Matt Black
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Posted - 2003.07.21 13:22:00 -
[21]
I fully agree with Bad Harlequin on this..
If they used the map to know when to escape from your reinforcements, then you could have used the map to escape them in the first place.
I guess you'll be wiser next time, but please don't ask for something that works well currently to run the risk of being bugged to hell by having it changed because someone caught you flat footed.
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Hippey
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Posted - 2003.07.21 13:43:00 -
[22]
Pirates are the only people who extensively use this feature. They use it to figure out where to prey on people.
Bounty hunters get what?
You should not be able to see the ENTIRE WORLD and how many people are in there. If it's a skill, at level 5 of that skill you should be able to scan the region you're in. NO MORE then that.
One argument I heard was that newbies need it to see that the world IS big and that it goes outside of their system. Well I don't believe newbies even know about the map let alone the different filters, until 2-3 days in. If they didn't notice 5000 people on the server when logging in, they're not gonna notice this.
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If you kill them, they will die!
Sport the war, war support
The sport is war, total war
When victory's really a massacre.
The final swing is not a drill
It's how many people I can kill! |
JR BobDobbs
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Posted - 2003.07.21 14:06:00 -
[23]
As much as it pains me to not be able to mouth off against pirates in yet another thread, this features is useful to legitimate pilots as well.
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Gauguin
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Posted - 2003.07.21 14:08:00 -
[24]
If logic can be used for this game than logically there should be a differentiation between the tracking data that is provided by the gates and stations. It could be that the data provided by the gates is ships entering and leaving the system and any activity in the general proximity of the gates. The station data may provide the rest. If the system doesn't have a station then this data is not available.
As to the availability of this data to the player, it should be faction standing based. The ownership of the gates should be decided to see who gets to receive their tracking data (station ownership is already set in-game).
If the gates are CONCORD property, so is the data they provide, with all the consequences to a pirate with a bad CONCORD standing. This is where a "Hacking skill" tree would come in, with nice sub-skills like gate data stream hacking, station data stream hacking, sentry gun hacking, etc.
There just aren't enough features in the game now to make this completely logical.
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Lithorus
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Posted - 2003.07.21 14:29:00 -
[25]
"Rather than turning it off or not, why not turn in into something faction based? If you're in good with Sansha's Nation, they'll tell you where the people are in their space. Do some missions for the Caldari State if you want to know if there's a blockade in Obe."
This is the best idea I've heard by far on thi suobject. Makes the factions actually worth something. So when you hunt in hostile enviroments you really get the feeling that you're in one. The same goes for pirates in empire space.
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Scragg
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Posted - 2003.07.21 15:03:00 -
[26]
That pilots in space feature is very usefull. I would be very bumbed if they took it out.
Say you are looking for a blockade... compare pilot sin space to ships destroyed... it's pretty easy to figure out where the rats are.
There is a lag of a few minutes between what you see and what ships are really in system.
Smart pirates are just going to set scouts out a few systems from their blockade to warn of incomming combatants. The bad guys don't need this feature... only the people trying to avoid them.
Scragg, Tyrell Corporation
Vice-Director Military Operations |
Bad Harlequin
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Posted - 2003.07.21 15:10:00 -
[27]
you know, i think morkt's on to something. It provides a good reason for why that information's there, and i especially like that "galactic net" bit as it allows more player interaction with the universe.
Player stations can choose to be a public node or not.
Further, a deployable Sensor Beacon item could be deployed in space, like sentry guns. So you build your corp station in nowhere and have sensor info there. Then you build sensor nodes in neighboring solar systems to get THAT info... and they could be destroyed, so you build a sentry or two around them...
Private-node stations can grant access to all corp members for the station and all connected sensor nodes only, where public is viewable to all.
Corps could be built on charting and "lighting" trade routes or paths into lawless space!
The mythical hacking skill could be used to gain entry to a corps's private sensor net.
I like it lots :D
You are in a maze of twisty little asteroids, all alike. |
GFLTorque
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Posted - 2003.07.21 15:20:00 -
[28]
I don't agree at all.
You and your potential enemy have access to the same data.
I don't know how you get anymore fair then that.
Can you enemy not also wonder if you have a massive force there killing Pirates? If so he would be foolish to enter that area. Scout, and keep an eye on it, just like your enemy and you will do much better.
My Two Cents,
Respectfully,
Torque
4 out of 3 people have trouble with fractions
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Phersephone
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Posted - 2003.07.21 15:53:00 -
[29]
I think it works fine just the way it is.... When mining in dangerous area's i always check the map every 10 minutes of so to see who is coming my way.... the there option you can use it keep an eye on the local channel... if bad guys turn up then run away..... Every one has assess to the same data. learn to use the map against people the same way the pirates do... if you see a bunch of people coming your way either move or prepair for them... Dropping lots of mine around the jump in points is a good way to discourage visitors :)
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.07.21 15:59:00 -
[30]
"A pirate force noticed the massive mining operation we were on, as it lit up the outer rim like a christmas tree, took us by surprise and pinned us down without the ability to regroup.
So we called in reinforcements, a large fleet was on it's way. (..)"
In other words, you left large number of miners to operate in 0.0 space with little --if any-- protection, knowing perfectly well you can be spotted on the map and that the 0.0 space is full of bored, trapped PC pirates.. and even though you had enough ships at your disposal to provide your miners with escort?..
/boggle
BTW, this map feature isn't useful just for the pirates. Since the filter doesn't show map types, you can never tell exactly what kind of fleet operates in the system, unless you actually go there and check... could be utilized for all kinds of bait-and-club operations or whatever...
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