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Ange'l
Black Legion Command
0
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Posted - 2013.02.27 21:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi guys,
I have been succesfully flying an Iteron Mark V with a Cloak and MWD fit to use as a cheap Transport alternative. Now I have skilled up to Transport ships and I am wondering why the Cloak + MWD trick does not work (I am currently flying an Occator with Cloak and MWD)?
I press align, immediately hit Cloak and MWD but instead of gaining the MWD speed boost, it just accelerates at normal speed. Thus I end up not having enough speed at the end of the cycle to insta-warp.
Has anyone else noticed this? Is this specific to the Occator? I have not been able to test this out on a different ship yet. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
Situation: Normal
1192
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Posted - 2013.02.27 22:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
What size MWD? |
Ange'l
Black Legion Command
0
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Posted - 2013.02.27 22:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
I have the Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I fit on the Occator (also on the Iteron V...) I also double checked that I was not using the Prototype Cloak (-90% speed). Everything looks fine and should work! |
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Gentlemen's Agreement
951
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Posted - 2013.02.28 01:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
My blockade runners all work as expected in this situation GǪ one effective cycle of MWD or AB while the covops cloak comes into play. When this has appeared to not be happening there has usually been one of two things going on:
-I had a smaller MWD / AB fitted than I thought. My mental model had been expecting (e.g.) 10MN boost from a ship that IGÇÖd actually fitted a 1MN prop mod to.
-The velocity increase was ******** because the ship was still aligning and, in turn, the aligning process is slower than usual because the prop module is running.
When flying the blockade runner the main reason I use that process is to get some distance under my belt when I jump through a gate into a bubble, and thereGÇÖs some fast-little-bastard burning towards me intent upon uncloaking me and doing evil lascivious things to my body. In these situations the priorities are a little different, I try to align towards a nearby edge of the bubble, preferably at close to 90-degrees to the path of the incoming wannabe decloaker GǪ. To maximize the distance between our ships when their paths intersect. Whenever youGÇÖre doing this you are balancing your speed and direction, where your speed potentially interferes with your ability to change direction and vice versa.
I do the same when I jump into a system with some hostiles who might just be dictor-camping my ingate. I want to align-MWD-cloak first, to get myself moving out of the possible bubble and away from the path of wannabe decloakers, before I commit to a warp. If I start to warp and they hit me with a delayed bubble, I am much more vulnerable and likely to die.
Otherwise I simply select my destination (object or bookmark) and warp to it, activating my cloak as soon as the warp shows in my HUD.
IGÇÖm not sure, from your OP, whether you are suggesting that you use the cloak and the MWD to get into a quick warp in your ittie V GǪ but I am not convinced that that works so well.
Certainly a single MWD pulse can help a lumbering-slow ship get into warp more quickly than would otherwise be the case. The classic example here is the orca where a 10s MWD pulse, as you align, gets you to warp speed much faster than would be the case without using the prop mod.
However, when you start using this method and a non-covops cloak, the intended dynamic gets messed up by the velocity bonus (e.g. -95% or -75% etc) of the cloaking device. If you align-cloak-MWD, or align-MWD-cloak, the shipGÇÖs maximal velocity is a fraction of what it would be without the cloak. So the single MWD cycle will accelerate you to that (********) maximal velocity.
The problem with this is that when you drop your cloak your ship reverts to its usual maximal velocity, and your current velocity is far short of 75% of that velocity. So, upon dropping cloak, you need more time to accelerate to warp speed.
Yes, I fit my travel and WH-collapsing orcas with both MWDs and cloaks, but I do not use them together if my main intention is to get that behemoth into warp more quickly. The cloak is to try keep me alive when evil people try to hurt me, or just to be invisible while I wait out the timer before I can head thru the WH again. The MWD is to give me a surge of speed (if thatGÇÖs ever the right word for an orca) when I am about to cloak, to accelerate me to warp speed so I can enter warp more quickly, and to bulk up my ship to provide greater mass for WH closure efforts.
I am not ingame, to test all this, but that is my understanding of the basic underlying game dynamics, and my practices.
We can build and sell pretty much every ship. Check my bio for details. Our pirate epic arc completion packages really are very good: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12973&find=unread |
IbanezLaney
the church of awesome
Caldari State Capturing
228
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Posted - 2013.02.28 02:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ange'l wrote:Hi guys,
I have been succesfully flying an Iteron Mark V with a Cloak and MWD fit to use as a cheap Transport alternative. Now I have skilled up to Transport ships and I am wondering why the Cloak + MWD trick does not work (I am currently flying an Occator with Cloak and MWD)?
I press align, immediately hit Cloak and MWD but instead of gaining the MWD speed boost, it just accelerates at normal speed. Thus I end up not having enough speed at the end of the cycle to insta-warp.
Has anyone else noticed this? Is this specific to the Occator? I have not been able to test this out on a different ship yet.
Yeah same problem here.
Only way to fix it is to hit self destruct and then cancel it with exactly 1 second to go.
Doesn't work if cargo hold is empty.
Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
Twisted Girl
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
45
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Posted - 2013.02.28 02:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
my faction cloak works fine . I assume t2 improved cloak work aswell. prototype cloak prob got too much penalty to work properly.
(I use 10mn mwd)
Im assuming you got cargo expanders fitted. |
Ange'l
Black Legion Command
0
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Posted - 2013.02.28 07:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
I have succesfully used this trick on the Iteron V. My Occator is fit identical and thus should work exactly the same (T2 cloak and 10MN meta 3 MWD). I still fail to understand why my Occator just does not accelerate from the MWD cycle.
On my Iteron V it accelerates fast enough for me to insta-warp right after the cycle and decloaking.
Yes I have cargo expanders fit to my Occator. I might drop one for a inertia but I doubt aligning is the problem. Cycling your MWD while aligning just makes your align speed retardedly high, but still increases your speed. |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
265
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Posted - 2013.02.28 13:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Fit improved cloak II and 10MN MWD.
It works fine on my occator even with 6 cargo expanders and 2 cargo rigs.
Note - it is still possible for an insta-lock t3 camp to point you.
Edit: Could be you are doing something wrong or could also be your skills. |
JAF Anders
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
19
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Posted - 2013.02.28 16:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'm not trying to split hairs, but I've got to ask: why didn't you just buy a Viator? |
Inkarr Hashur
Sacrificial Lambs
208
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 17:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Your occator has almost twice as much mass as your Iteron V from what I can tell.
This impacts your velocity from MWD IMMENSELY, because prop mods scale inversely with mass (this is why oversizing a prop mod is so fun). Because the MWD is much less effective you don't end up with a working MWD trick. I'm sure someone's figured out how to make it work (maybe fitting nanos will do it), do some googling. But seriously why didn't you just use a viator?
just check the velocity difference yourself.
Iteron - 1134 m/s from 172 m/s, 6.6 times faster
occator - 679 m/s from 141 m/s, 4.8 times faster |
Ange'l
Black Legion Command
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 17:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Inkarr Hashur wrote:Your occator has almost twice as much mass as your Iteron V from what I can tell.
This impacts your velocity from MWD IMMENSELY, because prop mods scale inversely with mass (this is why oversizing a prop mod is so fun). Because the MWD is much less effective you don't end up with a working MWD trick. I'm sure someone's figured out how to make it work (maybe fitting nanos will do it), do some googling. But seriously why didn't you just use a viator?
just check the velocity difference yourself.
Iteron - 1134 m/s from 172 m/s, 6.6 times faster
occator - 679 m/s from 141 m/s, 4.8 times faster
Constructive answer. I'll see if I can install a nano mod instead.
The reason I am not using a Viator is simple: I only have to do a couple of low-sec jumps and I do need as much cargo space as possible.
If mass really is the difference here, then in my situation it is probably better to use an Iteron V with Cloak + MWD and a WCS instead of an Occator... |
Inkarr Hashur
Sacrificial Lambs
209
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 17:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
On second thought, might get much more out of the inertial stabilizers since they'll make the ship more agile and accelerate faster without increasing your required velocity to get into warp. |
Ange'l
Black Legion Command
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.28 18:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Inkarr Hashur wrote:On second thought, might get much more out of the inertial stabilizers since they'll make the ship more agile and accelerate faster without increasing your required velocity to get into warp.
Yeah, I bought an Inertia instead, of course. It seems to have helped a ton. I lost quite some cargo space but alas. It is still better cargo space than a shoehorned Iteron V and way more than a Viator. Thanks! |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
Damu'Khonde
656
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Posted - 2013.02.28 18:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
I've always been able to cloak + MWD trick with deep space transports, the timing is just a lot harder.
Anyway, since istabs and nanos don't actually reduce your mass I don't think they would help. One thing you can try is overheating your MWD. That should give you the required oomph without having to change the fitting around. |
Silas Shaw
Coffee Hub
35
|
Posted - 2013.03.01 04:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:I've always been able to cloak + MWD trick with deep space transports, the timing is just a lot harder.
Anyway, since istabs and nanos don't actually reduce your mass I don't think they would help. One thing you can try is overheating your MWD. That should give you the required oomph without having to change the fitting around.
the thing about istabs is that with the warp formulae the way that they are, boosting agility gets the same result as reducing mass. |
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