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Trooper B99
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Posted - 2005.08.12 10:59:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Trooper B99 on 12/08/2005 11:02:26
 Originally by: MuthaTrucka
Either someone will pay more and MC would break said agreement or MC Would hide behind it's Client is never named policy and just ask for more isk so the agreement stays status Quo.
Wow, I don't often say this, but that is a load of ****.
The MC have nenver broken a contract. The MC are widely known for their honour in sticking to contractual agreements. To suggest otherwise is . . . simply and utterly wrong.
Once a contract is made, it's unchangeable unless the client themselves asks for modifications. I won't go into certain groups shooting haulers and such breaking NAP agreements. 
Anyways, to reiterate.
The MC have never broken an agreement.
Quote:
And Mercenaries are nilhistic they are a non-entity in all actuality
.
I wouldn't use the nerm nihilistic, it doesn't fit in this context at all as we have form, structure and certainly do not want the destruction of existing political or social institutions. Those are the people who pay us! We do a job for afew weeks and thats that. Then we do things like mining, complexes, agent running and all the other things people can do in this game. Hardly the action of nihilistic entities.
Quote:
MC has never been friends to anyone as an organization
Partially correct in a way. The MC as an entity has had long term business agreements with several corporations/groups. Case in point being the retainer paid to BDCI and FRICK in regards to Mercenary forces. Communications and relationship with these long term business groups remain good because they have communicated with the MC leadership above regular member level and stay in contact.
Long term MC business arrangements and retainers are availabel upon request and negotiation.
Originally by: Weebear
After the first war, but before the second! Before the MC actually . . . Maybe I can skive off work more this afternoon looking after a lunchtime beer, but no promises!
Cheers, thanks for looking, eve-mail me them (along with dates etc) and I'll have a chat with Sel tonight when i'm back from work myself.
Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
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Eleese
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Posted - 2005.08.12 11:47:00 -
[62]
Well if someone paids mc not to shoot them thats make MC pirates by extorting people therefore isnt going to happen unless mc decides to drop its neutral merc title and have YARR instead.
If there was an agreament it would be a politcal/trade agreament not a contract therefore there is every chance MC would break it. (never happened so cant be compared to past contracts its different) Whether they decide the trade deal doesnt benefit them anymore, or they get offered a good contract to kill there political friends there no contract broken there.
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Trooper B99
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Posted - 2005.08.12 13:48:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Eleese
Well if someone paids mc not to shoot them thats make MC pirates by extorting people therefore isnt going to happen unless mc decides to drop its neutral merc title and have YARR instead.
Not nessicarily Eleese, you should certainly know that people who have taken the MC under longish term contracts are not and cannot be taken as targets due to the conflict on interests it can generate.
End of the day you can perma-argue somantics of a situation of being paid for certain reasons/manners like that to try and score a literary point.
I ain't gonna do that with you.
Quote:
If there was an agreament it would be a politcal/trade agreament not a contract therefore there is every chance MC would break it
. . . .
offered a good contract to kill there political friends there no contract broken there.
*sighs* This is arguing semantics again. Contract, deal, agreement, potatoe, potato. . . .
Maybe thats what you *think* your former brothers in the MC would do Eleese, from your home in CLS. I personally, actually being in the MC and being involved in the deal and contract making decsions say otherwise.
Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
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Gierling
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Posted - 2005.08.12 15:03:00 -
[64]
I didn't use Nihilistic as an insult, only to say that the MC had no goal of thier own.
Irregardless, and insofar as that business contract. There was a deal some time ago to provide Cerberus' to the MC at cost who in turn would provide Deimos' (or whatever HAC you had the bPO to) at cost.
It eventually was retracted when you realized that the Deimos was far more popular then the cerberus and that it was more profitable to sell the deimos' on market and just buy the occassional Cerberus at retail
Bastards we are lest Bastards we become. |
Nyxus
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Posted - 2005.08.12 15:18:00 -
[65]
A couple of things to remember about the MC.
As a Merc corp most of thier members income stems from the fighting. Yes, I am sure they have an alt industrial base hiding in Noob corps &/or a bit of 0.0. But I would hazard a guess that a good chunk comes from dropped mods and to a lesser extent client payments. If they are not fighting, they have a large reduction in income. Napping large choice targets (like CLS) would likewise reduce the overall possible income to a group like MC whose primary targets are alliances. To preclude a group from being attacked would be working against thier own self-interest which is not something any intelligent person would do.
What is the result in practical terms? Well they will smile at you, eat all the chips at your party, and still be smiling at you when they pod your rear the next morning. This is the nature of mercenary groups.
As far as fighting styles, yes when fighitng groups that severly outnumber you then "hit and run" and "ghost ops" will be the method of the day. Remember: the only way they make money is by killing targets while minimizing losses. This means that while the war dec is in effect you better not leave your house alone, EVER. The only exception to this would be if the client would pay them extra to, say, seige something.
As far as the MC's honor and reputation, well that's as lily-white and unsullied as Seleene's complexion. The word "unviolable" comes to mind. It's the reason they command such a premium price and are without doubt the premier Merc group in Eve today.
Lastly, on thier use of HACS. From a fire/mobility standpoint HACs can't be beat. On a more personal level as someone who has faced them in battle, I can assure you that nothing is more intimidating than seeing your fleet being outnumbered by a fleet comprised entirely of HACs. It's a butt-clenching experience that makes you triple check your clone before you engage. 
Now if you will excuse me, I have to go hide under bed again. I think I hear Viceroy creeping around outside.
Nyxus
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Coasterbrian
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Posted - 2005.08.12 15:54:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Eyeshadow
Originally by: Nepereta
Trouble with MC is that there is more often than not nothing to attack. They have no base as such and move incredibly fast using nothing bigger than a HAC. Which is a hassle but I for one am glad that they largely seem unable to penetrate impass due to our good defences.
Its tempting but im not going to bite
I think he is referring to the particular incident that occured yesterday. Nothing more.
Soft and Crunchy 4tw! \o/ |
MuthaTrucka
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Posted - 2005.08.12 15:54:00 -
[67]
Quote:
The MC have never broken a contract
Never means not yet. Not that it would happen in obvious way or that it would happen in the near future. Yet there is always a chance of it happening after all people are people and in a game world with no real repurcussions these things happen all the time.
Infintesimal as it may be the Probability still stands that MC would manipulate circumstances to its own profit and Enjoyment. Which is after all what the MC is all about Carefree(read politically neutral) Personal Profit and Enjoyment.
---------------
Don't Call me a Carebear,
I don't really care about much at all.
[SeXin Up Foyle] |
Trooper B99
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Posted - 2005.08.12 16:29:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Trooper B99 on 12/08/2005 16:29:19
Originally by: MuthaTrucka
Never means not yet. Not that it would happen in obvious way or that it would happen in the near future. Yet there is always a chance of it happening after all people are people and in a game world with no real repurcussions these things happen all the time.
Okay, I'll take it as read in your personal not-ever-dealt-in-contractual-details-with-the-MC world there is a chance.
In mine there isn't a chance, even in the future. If the MC broke contracts I'd be the first one out despite my position because they would not be the MC i joined anymore.
Let me put it another way. A merc in this game lives on reputation. Without reputation they are nothing. The MC has a reputation to protect, and it make no sense what so ever for them to break a contract and loose their reputation. For you to suggest they would break contract with no repercussions is frankly laughable.
Quote:
Infintesimal as it may be the Probability still stands that MC would manipulate circumstances to its own profit and Enjoyment. Which is after all what the MC is all about Carefree(read politically neutral) Personal Profit and Enjoyment.
Again, we come back to in *your* world. You ain't part of the MC nor have you known about or dealt directly with contractual negotiations at any level that I know of. I'm sorry to say you have not got a clue what you are talking about.
The only way it could be said the MC manipulates circumstances is in choosing contracts if multiple ones are offered with payment at the same time and then we have to chooose which one we take. Thats it.
Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
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Seleene
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Posted - 2005.08.12 18:05:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Gierling
I didn't use Nihilistic as an insult, only to say that the MC had no goal of thier own.
Perhaps our goals are not the same as yours, but I assure you they exist. Don't exclude the possibility that our long range plans may include many of the things you are working on today. Also, consider the small size and total military focus of our alliance and it should paint a rather clear picture as to what the MC will look like in a few months...
Originally by: Gierling
Irregardless, and insofar as that business contract. There was a deal some time ago to provide Cerberus' to the MC at cost who in turn would provide Deimos' (or whatever HAC you had the bPO to) at cost.
It eventually was retracted when you realized that the Deimos was far more popular then the cerberus and that it was more profitable to sell the deimos' on market and just buy the occassional Cerberus at retail
Actually, it was a communication issue more than anything else that doomed it.
Originally by: Nyxus
As far as the MC's honor and reputation, well that's as lily-white and unsullied as Seleene's complexion.
Originally by: Nyxus
Lastly, on thier use of HACS. From a fire/mobility standpoint HACs can't be beat. On a more personal level as someone who has faced them in battle, I can assure you that nothing is more intimidating than seeing your fleet being outnumbered by a fleet comprised entirely of HACs. It's a butt-clenching experience that makes you triple check your clone before you engage.
HACs and Assault Frigs are indeed the premiere strike ships in the game. A Deimos or a Zealot can almost solo any BS they come against unless that BS is set up specifically to counter them. Two of these ships can kill two of anything else in the game 99% of the time. Vagabonds are big interceptors, able to put 6 points of scramble on something and actually live.
Side note - I would have killed to have had the Vaggy BPO when we were fighting HOBBLAH during the XETIC contract. We HATED and admired this guy at the same time.
As for the rest of this thread, not much point in responding to it all. Trooper seems to have that well in hand (get back to hauling pyerite, Troops!). The war goes on and we'll just see where that takes us. 
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We're outnumbered! That simplifies the problem! |
Cmdr Patrick
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Posted - 2005.08.12 18:25:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Cmdr Patrick on 12/08/2005 18:27:53
Hobblahs raven ownd he lvoes it...but when your expecting to be outnumbered fit for the job eh
edit-aka stabbies
Ikvar > This peice of
**** is greifing me |
MuthaTrucka
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Posted - 2005.08.12 19:21:00 -
[71]
Edited by: MuthaTrucka on 12/08/2005 19:23:54
Edited by: MuthaTrucka on 12/08/2005 19:22:48
Quote:
Infintesimal as it may be the Probability still stands that MC would manipulate circumstances to its own profit and Enjoyment. Which is after all what the MC is all about Carefree(read politically neutral) Personal Profit and Enjoyment.
Again, we come back to in *your* world. You ain't part of the MC nor have you known about or dealt directly with contractual negotiations at any level that I know of. I'm sorry to say you have not got a clue what you are talking about.
The only way it could be said the MC manipulates circumstances is in choosing contracts if multiple ones are offered with payment at the same time and then we have to chooose which one we take. Thats it.
Want to reread that sentence? Maybe I don't Live in "your" world but i do know if I don't know what a word means I look it up. So in case you can't be bothered I have the definitions here for you.
Pronunciation Key inĀfinĀiĀtesĀiĀmal Audio pronunciation of "Infinitesimal"
adj.
1. Immeasurably or incalculably minute.
2. Mathematics. Capable of having values approaching zero as a limit.
probĀaĀbilĀiĀty Audio pronunciation of "probability" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (prb-bl-t)
n. pl. probĀaĀbilĀiĀties
1. The quality or condition of being probable; likelihood.
2. A probable situation, condition, or event:
So in any event the sentence reads "Incalculably minute likelihood that MC would manipulate circumstances to its own profit and Enjoyment."
So therefore unless you are saying that you have reached Perfection there is always a chance, however unlikely, of something being probable along those lines.
---------------
Don't Call me a Carebear,
I don't really care about much at all.
[SeXin Up Foyle] |
Julien Derida
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Posted - 2005.08.12 19:23:00 -
[72]
OMG!! Semantics! 
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Chief Inspector of the Style Police - FRICK |
pringprang
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Posted - 2005.08.12 19:29:00 -
[73]
I could be wrong but havn't the MC advertised a policy where they will let the target group buy out the rest of the contract against them? Is this considered breaking a contract?
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Julien Derida
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Posted - 2005.08.12 19:37:00 -
[74]
Originally by: pringprang
I could be wrong but havn't the MC advertised a policy where they will let the target group buy out the rest of the contract against them? Is this considered breaking a contract?
This is only ever offered at the request of the client.
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Chief Inspector of the Style Police - FRICK |
Weebear
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Posted - 2005.08.12 19:47:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Julien Derida
Originally by: pringprang
I could be wrong but havn't the MC advertised a policy where they will let the target group buy out the rest of the contract against them? Is this considered breaking a contract?
This is only ever offered at the request of the client.
Can vouch for that, the first war we had with BDCI, we were offered a buy out clause only because the client allowed it. Would still like to know who the client was, and would especially like verified who the current one is. You think when the Eve servers go down Seleene will reveal all |
Trooper B99
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Posted - 2005.08.12 22:49:00 -
[76]
Originally by: MuthaTrucka
a very nice though a little patronising and slightly pointless dictionary definition
Basically you're saying that by your definition there is a possible chance that perhaps, maybe, sometime, maybe, it is possible somewhere that maybe the MC might in fact perhaps do what you say. Maybe.
And also, by that defintion CLS might in fact tomorrow delcare war on [5] and crush them in a day, then side with Xetic and start pirating everyone and smacking up local all the time. Or TomB might turn up at your home address dressed in only wranglers jockstrap and dance for you.
mmm..hmmmmmm.
Improbable but possible, however i think we can safely say that its not going to happen. Ever.
So, without being overly impolite, you are talking garbage in what seems a vain attempt to smear the MC's reputation regarding contracts.
The MC doesn't and will not break contracts and I think most people in the EVE community know that.
Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
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Eleese
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Posted - 2005.08.13 00:21:00 -
[77]
Quote:
*sighs* This is arguing semantics again. Contract, deal, agreement, potatoe, potato. . . .
Maybe thats what you *think* your former brothers in the MC would do Eleese, from your home in CLS. I personally, actually being in the MC and being involved in the deal and contract making decsions say otherwise.
Well CLS and BDCI had trade agreament... now they dont something whatever it is broke that agreament. My point was agreaments can break without it being a dishonourable act or a bad thing done by the MC. And therefore could make a once unacceptable contract into an acceptable one... and infact that statement in context with others on this thread was defending MC/bdci honour from any of those bdci and cls are buddies and have trade agreaments posts... instead of saying thanks you argue saying im wrong? i wasnt interested in arguing about indivudal situation i used general examples and general ideas to point out that situations can change without it being one sides fault. |
Nepereta
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Posted - 2005.08.13 00:52:00 -
[78]
Q: Is Eleese a spy?
Q2: How many spies do you guys(MC) have in CLS?
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2005.08.13 00:55:00 -
[79]
Q3 can we stop this tomato/potato throwing and get to business please? Quarrels ruin the fun of the game, and grimpak with out fun = grimpak
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Quote:
Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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Seleene
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Posted - 2005.08.13 01:30:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Nepereta
Q: Is Eleese a spy?
Q2: How many spies do you guys(MC) have in CLS?
1.) Yes.
2.) Cyvok is an MC alt character.
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We're outnumbered! That simplifies the problem! |
Gilbert Drillerson
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Posted - 2005.08.13 02:00:00 -
[81]
Rabble rabble rabble....
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Waagaa Ktlehr
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Posted - 2005.08.13 03:25:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Nepereta
Q: Is Eleese a spy?
Q2: How many spies do you guys(MC) have in CLS?
A1: Yep! But you nor anyone else hardly has a grasp of the complexity of her spy-being.
A2: At least two! I know another one... :)
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I am a love machine, feeding my fantasy, give me a kiss or three, have fun! |
Hoozin
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Posted - 2005.08.13 04:14:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr
Originally by: Nepereta
Q: Is Eleese a spy?
Q2: How many spies do you guys(MC) have in CLS?
A1: Yep! But you nor anyone else hardly has a grasp of the complexity of her spy-being.
A2: At least two! I know another one... :)
Yeah, I definitely like this thread better than the other one.
I don't have an urge to flame anybody. I do have an urge to do lots of huggling though.
Except I'm ready to pod Troop for all of that REALLY LONG POSTING!!!
---------------------------------
Carebears are cooler than you.
Haiku embroidered panties - On sale now at your local sharky outlet. |
Krapz
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Posted - 2005.08.13 04:39:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Krapz on 13/08/2005 04:43:37
I'm gonna have to agree w/ Gil and Seleene on this one. Thread had some potential to start. I wish I played on a more friendly TZ for core MC hunting. We'll just have to se what happens when we finally go after you guys. Should be fun.
Looks like today was fun. Shout out to Contraband btw, nice one!
-- Insert cool graphics sig here -- |
Cartiff
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Posted - 2005.08.13 09:16:00 -
[85]
I was out last night and i may be abit tipsy, but is ASCN flaming MC?
Errrr, me no thinky thaty a goody ideay
That is all
Cartiff, CEO
Euphoria Released
NBSI 4TW
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Weebear
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Posted - 2005.08.13 10:01:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Cartiff
I was out last night and i may be abit tipsy, but is ASCN flaming MC?
Errrr, me no thinky thaty a goody ideay
That is all
Sober up man, we are discussing semantics and probability..... I think.... thread has pretty much derailed from the original alt post! Bet he is wondering why the post never de-generated into the flamefest he expected and sulking  |
Eleese
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Posted - 2005.08.13 11:10:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Cartiff
I was out last night and i may be abit tipsy, but is ASCN flaming MC?
Errrr, me no thinky thaty a goody ideay
That is all
Wouldnt really say its a flame fest.. more a debate. everyone is still being friendly and no name calling lol.
Think people are just confused who i'm spying for :)
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Liet Traep
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Posted - 2005.08.13 11:14:00 -
[88]
TBH from the number and tone of the ASCN posts it looks to me like you guys SERIOUSLY don't like being targteted by the MC. Not saying you're scared but definitely more than a little irked. Some of you seem to take it personally.
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Eleese
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Posted - 2005.08.13 11:19:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Liet Traep
TBH from the number and tone of the ASCN posts it looks to me like you guys SERIOUSLY don't like being targteted by the MC. Not saying you're scared but definitely more than a little irked. Some of you seem to take it personally.
well your free to your opinion... but well doesnt really concern you :) No one is going to be over the moon about MC war dec'ing them and ASCN and MC are still being civil and mature with each other. well i lie some people were happy with mc war dec'ing lol. |
Lodhi
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Posted - 2005.08.14 01:15:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Hoozin
Originally by: Weebear
The MC has a public killboard!?! You guys should have posted a link at some point on the forums so this poor alt didn't have to make a post :P
Weebear, stop picking on the alt. He's not stupid, just a little ... slow.
/me huggles Weebear, whilst choking on the sarcasm eminating from him.
Peewee is mine, mine mine mine!
All mine!
HA!
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