Hi,

I never flew a carrier yet and I was wondering how much use they could have in small gang PvP - as real combat ship with a support role in addition (or vice versa). Let's say a gang of 10-15 pilots. I know they're logistic ships mainly and nice to get stuff transported also. But for now, let's consider them (ISK aside) just as a BS with a lot of EHP and awesome utility. I also know they are blob magnets and all...but howsoever, after insurance a pure t2 fit carrier isn't much more expensive compared to T3s or pirate BSs.

A non-triage carrier fitted with 3 drone damage mods is able to deal BS like damage with sentries and hvy drones alone. Thanatos does 1250 DPS with fighters. Counting in tons of light and medium drones they offer some nice flexibility.

I see some issues when using them in combat:

- sitting ducks, no GTFO ability
- bad lock time without triage
- moveable with cyno only, which is not that subtle ^^

But is there more which speaks against them in small scale PvP? Is the much increased utility compared to an ordinary BS (maintenance bay, XL RR) worth using them in actual front line combat?

Thanks for any hint.

A small gang is generally denoted by the amount of pilots on the field, not the size of ships they use.

In fact, and to answer Deuno, i would say that to a certain degree that's how the "Slowcat" was born. A couple of years ago during the height of the mineral crash a trend emerged, among some of the wealthier small-gang groups, where the use of Capitals in their traditional roles resurfaced: Carriers and Dreads began to be looked upon as throw-away ships to spark advantages in otherwise expensive fights (Tech III, Faction BS etc.) as well as both under- and against the Supercapital profileration of the time. To snag kills under the noses of the larger Supercapital fleets.

If you think about it, much of it is outlined in RnK's movies where even in the first renowned one you can see arguments made for letting a Triage save a BS-fleet to cut losses. Other groups began treating Dreads similarily even before their buffs. Allowing a smaller group to enter into the higher-stake gameplay of Super fishing while commiting a couple of sieged Dreads (risking 5b on the outlook of killing 20b+). They'd try to one-cycle a tackled Super (or turn a Triage-stalemate) before help could arrive and then break off. When a Super fleet descended upon them they just cut their losses and exfiltrated, leaving or scuttling what could not be saved. It should be kept in mind that a Carrier then cost something like 600-700m and a Dread not much more as they were widely regarded as terrible ships by the majority.

This later culminated in the traditional Battleship role being more and more obscured. Certain Battleships remained as necessary components (the Triage-minded groups like RnK favoured Bhaalgorns, and the Dread-minded groups like RnK's neighbours in HORN favoured Vindicators), but once the Dreads and "Pantheons" (or Garchons, Rarchons or whatever terminology you prefer) became common sights it started to dawn on the established groups that the role of the traditional Battleship in such fights: providing some support, some primary damage and some anti-support damage; was largely obscured and better outsourced to specialized ships. Sentry-Carriers started to appear as Pantheon-hybrids with anti-support function: shooting out Bubblers (and other opportunistic support) across the entire grid while Trackdreads pounded down the primaries.

These proto-Slowcat Sentry-Carriers did just what Deuno asked about: they tracked better than BS, did more damage, tanked better, could refit off each other or provide the Dreads with refits and could adapt to shoot further; all while they retained their role of Remote-reparing the sparse and heavily maximized, pre-locked, sub-capital support brought to the grid (100mn, Slaved, Tech III sporting a tank more similar to a Carrier than a sub-cap or fully faction-fit and Slaved Vindicators or Bhaalgorns, depending on disposition). They didn't need Triage to lock those 500k+ tank sub-capitals at that scale, since numbers were small and the brunt of damage came from equally large ships.

When those groups clashed even a 10-15 man gang could look something like: Vindi / Bhaal, LR Proteus, LR Loki, Moros and Archons. Then some possible reserve of throw-away Triage and Supers for escalation. Perhaps some cloaky support if it was in nullsec (bombers to clear fighter-bombers, etc.) and the odd HIC bridged in.

Another thing that should be kept in mind is that alot of the examples i refer to took place in Lowsec and NPC null around static positions like POS or Stations where a Carrier group could just slowboat into shields or dock in the station. Even on gates those throw-away Capitals could just be left behind and have the even more expensive sub-caps just filter out.