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Kyra Quinn
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2013.03.05 13:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've been doing exploration and the UI is... challenging, while it works I do feel there's al least one extra thing that would help a whole lot.
Right now you can use the alt key and then drag the probes in and out making them converge on the centre but having to drag it with the mouse isn't always handy, especially not if you change the probe size back from .25 AU to, say, 32AU. Then you first have to zoom out a whole lot using the mouse wheel and then you can use alt key to move the probes.
How about adding an extra option; holding alt while using the mouse wheel, making the probes converge in or out depending. Not saying it should be a replacement for the current system but it would help a lot as an extra way of controlling the probes. It wouldn't have to be too precise, actually it should be rather amplified, just enough to make moving the probes a bit faster&easier. The more precise movement would ofcourse still be done using the alt key.
Any feed back very much welcomed. |
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CCP Tallest
C C P C C P Alliance
394

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Posted - 2013.03.05 13:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
That's a good idea. Improving the way probes are moved around is definitely something we would like to do. Gÿà EVE Game Designer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ |
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Inepsa1987
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
30
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Posted - 2013.03.05 13:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
I would like to see this implemented. Anything adding to the probe system is much appreciated.
Good Idea Spaceship Pilot. |

Trebor Daehdoow
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
2689
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Posted - 2013.03.05 13:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Even nicer, a quick option that moves the selected probes to useful geometric configurations.
ie: if you select 4 probes, they get moved to form an equilateral tetrahedron. Re-elect Trebor to CSM8 GÇó Member of CSM 5-7 GÇó My CSM Blog |

Remnant Madeveda
Ixion Defence Systems Test Alliance Please Ignore
36
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Posted - 2013.03.05 14:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Or even a way to save a commonly used configuration for the probes. I.E. I set up my probes and scan range, then hit save. Next time I deploy my probes I can click my preset, and they jump to the same set up previously used. |

Thelonious Blake
21
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Posted - 2013.03.05 14:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Even nicer, a quick option that moves the selected probes to useful geometric configurations.
ie: if you select 4 probes, they get moved to form an equilateral tetrahedron.
I've seen your idea proposed in the forums before. It was beaten down (or trolled maybe?) with some arguments that it will make scanning too easy though this made be think... I know people who, piloting a T3 cruiser, can scan you down with 1-2 moves of the probes, which can take roughly 15-20 seconds, all this given they have rough idea of where you curently are. If this change is implemented the time to scan you down will be even less (<15s?).
I personally would welcome such quick predefined geometric positioning of the probes. |

Remnant Madeveda
Ixion Defence Systems Test Alliance Please Ignore
37
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Posted - 2013.03.05 14:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Regardless of how fast your can position your probes the ultimate limitation to scanning is the scan time of the probes. There is some skill, a little luck, and then positioning that all come into play. "scanning is too easy" is just a complaint from people who are too risk averse and lazy to watch local/dscan. |

Anthar Thebess
REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN
61
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Posted - 2013.03.05 14:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
And please remove the "destroy probes " button - miss-click - and again probes are dead ;) Change it to abandon probes.
As for the probes position/configuration - this will also be good. I always setup my probes in the same way - why cannot i save it?
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Kyra Quinn
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2013.03.05 14:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Thanks for the replies so far. It's not my intention to make it "easy" but rather "less of an uphill fight against the UI".
On that note I would ask for an extra button on the probe window right next to the "enable map mode" that switches between solar system and star map. i know you can do that using the map window itself but generally you don't need that window open when probing so if you want to switch it just adds extra unneeded clutter. The adventures of a newbie: http://kyraquinn.wordpress.com/ |

Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
587
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Posted - 2013.03.05 15:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Even nicer, a quick option that moves the selected probes to useful geometric configurations.
ie: if you select 4 probes, they get moved to form an equilateral tetrahedron. This could be nice but as has been stated in the past it could make scanning too fast, now if they took, lets say 5 seconds per probe, placed into configuration making it up to 40 seconds to auto configure all probes that would be balanced. This could be aided with a new skill that reduces the auto configuration by 5% per level Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
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fukier
RISE of LEGION
860
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Posted - 2013.03.05 15:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Even nicer, a quick option that moves the selected probes to useful geometric configurations.
ie: if you select 4 probes, they get moved to form an equilateral tetrahedron.
have my space babies!
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |

Remnant Madeveda
Ixion Defence Systems Test Alliance Please Ignore
37
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Posted - 2013.03.05 15:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Even nicer, a quick option that moves the selected probes to useful geometric configurations.
ie: if you select 4 probes, they get moved to form an equilateral tetrahedron. This could be nice but as has been stated in the past it could make scanning too fast, now if they took, lets say 5 seconds per probe, placed into configuration making it up to 40 seconds to auto configure all probes that would be balanced. This could be aided with a new skill that reduces the auto configuration by 5% per level
I fail to see why the extra time is needed. The fact of the matter is that the time is inconsequential. If you are playing and paying attention instead of botting or some other nonsense you won't get caught by someone having to use probes to scan you down. The D-Scan is your friend. |

St Mio
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1167
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Posted - 2013.03.05 15:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
When you buff the probe scanning window, hotkey/keyboard shortcut for the Analyze button, pretty please with a cherry on top! |

Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
28
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Posted - 2013.03.05 15:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
St Mio wrote:When you buff the probe scanning window, hotkey/keyboard shortcut for the Analyze button, pretty please with a cherry on top! I second that emotion. |

Thelonious Blake
21
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Posted - 2013.03.05 15:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Remnant Madeveda wrote:The D-Scan is your friend.
What I tried to say is that with the current mechanics you have to CLICK the D-Scan every 20-30 seconds. If this thing gets implemented you will have to CLICK it every 10 seconds. Now, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind having this implemented. Only if we could get some auto d-scanning option and we can still keep an eye on the d-scan. |

Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
587
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Posted - 2013.03.05 15:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Remnant Madeveda wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Even nicer, a quick option that moves the selected probes to useful geometric configurations.
ie: if you select 4 probes, they get moved to form an equilateral tetrahedron. This could be nice but as has been stated in the past it could make scanning too fast, now if they took, lets say 5 seconds per probe, placed into configuration making it up to 40 seconds to auto configure all probes that would be balanced. This could be aided with a new skill that reduces the auto configuration by 5% per level I fail to see why the extra time is needed. The fact of the matter is that the time is inconsequential. If you are playing and paying attention instead of botting or some other nonsense you won't get caught by someone having to use probes to scan you down. The D-Scan is your friend. Its not for me, the extra time is for you. A good scanner can probe down a ship in 1-2 scans if I can auto configure probes in a second that only gives a person 5~10 seconds to detect that they are being probed down. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |

Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
662
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Posted - 2013.03.05 16:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
Another good suggestion:
Please make the things that say "probe 1, probe 2" etc. in the solar system map NOT disrupt the clicking of probe orientation control points. I hate having to spin around until the probe text doesn't block where i want to click.
And make it so I have to hold a button to drag the probe bubbles to a larger or smaller range, when probing there is too many cases where you just want to move the probe but you click something else like "increase probe range by dragging" or that annoying probe #1 text. |

Remnant Madeveda
Ixion Defence Systems Test Alliance Please Ignore
37
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Posted - 2013.03.05 16:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
I am a scanner I know the difference, and as a heads up, while in Null the standard rule is click D-scan as soon as you can every time you can if you are concerned with people being in space with you. It's no different than W-space in this respect. You are spamming D-scan every 10 or so seconds, and no we don't need an auto-dscan it makes the game too easy. |

Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
587
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Posted - 2013.03.05 16:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
Another thing I would like to see is a way to keep a probe stationary while moving other probes around. Currently this can be done be deactivating the probe but it starts to become a click fest. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |

Thelonious Blake
21
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Posted - 2013.03.05 16:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Remnant Madeveda wrote:[...] no we don't need an auto-dscan it makes the game too easy.
Ofcourse it makes it easy, if by that you mean less clicking.
On the contrary, I don't think it makes the meta part of the game less easy, as you still would have to pay attention. |
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Remnant Madeveda
Ixion Defence Systems Test Alliance Please Ignore
37
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Posted - 2013.03.05 16:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
In terms of less clicking I'd be more in favor of them allowing a hotkey to active the dscan as opposed to making it any sort of automated. |

Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
373
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Posted - 2013.03.05 16:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
Remnant Madeveda wrote:In terms of less clicking I'd be more in favor of them allowing a hotkey to active the dscan as opposed to making it any sort of automated. I agree with this, as well as the hotkey for the "Analyze" function in the scanner window.
Automation is a slippery slope. I imagine its the same reason that you dont recomence firing at targets when you have reloaded your weapons. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |

Sven Viko VIkolander
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
41
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Posted - 2013.03.05 17:19:00 -
[23] - Quote
Here are my suggestions for improving scanning/probing:
1) Make it easier to center on probes or anomalies.
2) Cut down on some of the wasted space in the scan window (e.g. take a look at all the wasted space near the scan sites / filters tabs). This is a general suggestion I have for improving the EVE UI: Every tiny bit of space counts, and there are A LOT of areas of wasted space in the UI which could be streamlined. Resizing and cutting out little parts here and there makes a huge difference and takes less coding than re-doing entire parts of the UI.
3) Add a "deploy all" option for deploying probes?
Also, I've always wondered this: If my probes can warp to selected parts of space via the solar system map, why can't I? Would this break the game? Would certainly make setting up safe spots easier. |

Siobhan MacLeary
BRG Corp Ocularis Inferno
75
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Posted - 2013.03.05 17:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
Remnant Madeveda wrote:I am a scanner I know the difference, and as a heads up, while in Null the standard rule is click D-scan as soon as you can every time you can if you are concerned with people being in space with you. It's no different than W-space in this respect. You are spamming D-scan every 10 or so seconds, and no we don't need an auto-dscan it makes the game too easy.
Have you ever sat in a cloaky T3 on-grid with your corpmates who're busy mining, and all you're doing is overwatch via d-scan? You'd sacrifice your soul for any kind of automatic dscan ping.
I do think that anyone being able to ping dscan every 10 seconds just as a matter of course would be kind of dumb - maybe set it up so the auto-ping repeats at 15 seconds stock, and every level of Astrometrics reduces dscan autoping time by 1 second. Thus at level 5 you'd be pinging every 10s but as a noob you'd be pinging every 15 seconds - which means that Astrometrics V gives you a slight advantage while not screwing over the noobie in lowsec simply because he has low skills.
As for the other suggestions regarding scanning: alt+scroll expanding/contracting probes is a great idea, please do this.
Automatic geometric setups or presets? Oh yes please. Maybe link it to your Astrometrics skill - not by the time it takes to set up, but how perfect your shape is. At Astrometics 1 it'd be recognizable as a given shape, but rather inaccurate as though it were drawn freehand. Astrometrics V would give you a laser-cut-accurate 3D geometric shape for your probes.
Here's a hint to good design in regards to EVE: Introduce as few new skills for new functionality as possible. Astrometrics and other scanning skills already exist, so it's better to link new functionality to them than to add in more skills for just one or two uses. It's also important to make sure that having a maxed skill gives an edge over no/just trained skill, while not being out of balance. EVE is a game where minor things - like 5 seconds on an autoping or the accuracy of a computationally assembled 3D shape - can confer a large advantage while not having that advantage doesn't screw you over. |

Nagarythe Tinurandir
Tormented of Destiny Cha Ching PLC
114
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Posted - 2013.03.05 18:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote: Edit: Also, any chance of making the 'flat' 3D arrows for each probe a bit thicker, or maybe cylindrical?
And a way to remove some of the text on the map would be great.
HELL YES! most of the time you end up looking at the narrow side of the arrows.
you can reduce the text shown in the solarsystem map to some degree but i made the experience that every patch it somehow gets messed up again.
Sven Viko VIkolander wrote: Make it easier to center on probes or anomalies.
im all for that too. let me center on my probes by double clinking on their names in the list of the scanner window. double clicking them in the 3D view only works half the time, because some stupid planet or belt seems to be more important.
another question: sometimes the probes are linked with green lines, making it easy to spot the center of all probes. most of the times, this lines are missing though. is their any way to have control over whether the lines are shown or not? |

Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
383
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Posted - 2013.03.06 06:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
Siobhan MacLeary wrote:Remnant Madeveda wrote:I am a scanner I know the difference, and as a heads up, while in Null the standard rule is click D-scan as soon as you can every time you can if you are concerned with people being in space with you. It's no different than W-space in this respect. You are spamming D-scan every 10 or so seconds, and no we don't need an auto-dscan it makes the game too easy. Have you ever sat in a cloaky T3 on-grid with your corpmates who're busy mining, and all you're doing is overwatch via d-scan? You'd sacrifice your soul for any kind of automatic dscan ping. I do think that anyone being able to ping dscan every 10 seconds just as a matter of course would be kind of dumb - maybe set it up so the auto-ping repeats at 15 seconds stock, and every level of Astrometrics reduces dscan autoping time by 1 second. Thus at level 5 you'd be pinging every 10s but as a noob you'd be pinging every 15 seconds - which means that Astrometrics V gives you a slight advantage while not screwing over the noobie in lowsec simply because he has low skills. As for the other suggestions regarding scanning: alt+scroll expanding/contracting probes is a great idea, please do this. Automatic geometric setups or presets? Oh yes please. Maybe link it to your Astrometrics skill - not by the time it takes to set up, but how perfect your shape is. At Astrometics 1 it'd be recognizable as a given shape, but rather inaccurate as though it were drawn freehand. Astrometrics V would give you a laser-cut-accurate 3D geometric shape for your probes. Here's a hint to good design in regards to EVE: Introduce as few new skills for new functionality as possible. Astrometrics and other scanning skills already exist, so it's better to link new functionality to them than to add in more skills for just one or two uses. It's also important to make sure that having a maxed skill gives an edge over no/just trained skill, while not being out of balance. EVE is a game where minor things - like 5 seconds on an autoping or the accuracy of a computationally assembled 3D shape - can confer a large advantage while not having that advantage doesn't screw you over. I haven't done it in a T3, but I do do it in a Falcon. Does that count?
And again, automation is the enemy. Its really not hard to click a button every few seconds. Even better if they add a hotkey option. Is there something else you would rather be doing? You are supposed to be watching the D-scan after all. MODULAR DRONES
MORE ORE SHIPS |

Siobhan MacLeary
BRG Corp Ocularis Inferno
76
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Posted - 2013.03.06 07:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote: I haven't done it in a T3, but I do do it in a Falcon. Does that count?
And again, automation is the enemy. Its really not hard to click a button every few seconds. Even better if they add a hotkey option. Is there something else you would rather be doing? You are supposed to be watching the D-scan after all.
I'd rather not get carpal tunnel, if that's what you're asking.
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darmwand
Repo.
88
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Posted - 2013.03.06 12:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
Maybe to counter these improvements probing time could be increased? That would mean less clicking around for the probers but would still allow mission runners to do their thing.
On that note (disclaimer, I'm an evil pirate) I might actually be in favour of making probing harder, if only to attract more mission runners to dangerous areas. darmwand Repossession Agent http://www.repo-corp.net/ Recruitment is OPEN |

Sylvia Nardieu
Audacity.
6
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Posted - 2013.03.06 13:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
darmwand wrote:Maybe to counter these improvements probing time could be increased? That would mean less clicking around for the probers but would still allow mission runners to do their thing.
On that note (disclaimer, I'm an evil pirate) I might actually be in favour of making probing harder, if only to attract more mission runners to dangerous areas.
TBH, probing needs some more improvements, not restrictions. Most of the suggestions made are really good (thick arrows, please!) but one I would put real high on priority list would be the ability to save probe configurations (not a fan of pre-made solutions, so no automatic ones I'd say). Realistically, the activity of positioning probes doesn't really influence one's ability to scan down stuff (which has much more to do with astrometrics skills, implants and knowledge/experience in the art of scanning) while at the same time it is a source of frustration thanks to the repetitveness and UI issues already pointed in this thread (labels preventing probe manipulation, arrows being basically 2D etc.).
There is no need to extend probing times since people who know what to look for will be hard to catch as it is, and those who don't will be equally easy prey. Also, depending on some external factors, probes can only be visible for 5-15 seconds max. and you really have to SPAM that D to notice those. |

darmwand
Repo.
88
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Posted - 2013.03.06 13:27:00 -
[30] - Quote
Hmm true, the interface's clumsiness shouldn't be what keeps mission runners alive so any improvements to that (such as probe layout presets) would be nice. The thing that makes me say that maybe probing should be harder (not interface-wise but in some other way) are statements like
Olleybear wrote:[The number of low-sec mission runners] all went downhill within a month or so when the initial probing changes first hit and ship scanning in mission rooms became much much easier. Afterall, scanning down a multiple bilion isk ship in less than 30 seconds in a mission that took 20 minutes and more to run is not only unprofitable for the mission runner, it is suicide.
(from this thread).
I.e., if that poster is right then making it harder to probe down ships might help revitalize low-sec. Then again it might not, I'm mostly just throwing around (other people's) ideas here  darmwand Repossession Agent http://www.repo-corp.net/ Recruitment is OPEN |
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Absolon Echerie
Gulag Industries
2
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Posted - 2013.03.12 13:36:00 -
[31] - Quote
darmwand wrote:Hmm true, the interface's clumsiness shouldn't be what keeps mission runners alive so any improvements to that (such as probe layout presets) would be nice. The thing that makes me say that maybe probing should be harder (not interface-wise but in some other way) are statements like Olleybear wrote:[The number of low-sec mission runners] all went downhill within a month or so when the initial probing changes first hit and ship scanning in mission rooms became much much easier. Afterall, scanning down a multiple bilion isk ship in less than 30 seconds in a mission that took 20 minutes and more to run is not only unprofitable for the mission runner, it is suicide. (from this thread). I.e., if that poster is right then making it harder to probe down ships might help revitalize low-sec. Then again it might not, I'm mostly just throwing around (other people's) ideas here 
wouldn't it be a solution to this to only give you the ability to save geometrical configs on core probes?
anyways i really like some suggestions. also as someone else stated, sometimes you see the green lines from the probes that makes it easy to center it on an anomaly, but in most cases these lines just don't render, making it easier to miss |

seth Hendar
I love you miners
24
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Posted - 2013.03.12 16:49:00 -
[32] - Quote
Thelonious Blake wrote:Trebor Daehdoow wrote:Even nicer, a quick option that moves the selected probes to useful geometric configurations.
ie: if you select 4 probes, they get moved to form an equilateral tetrahedron. I've seen your idea proposed in the forums before. It was beaten down (or trolled maybe?) with some arguments that it will make scanning too easy  though this made be think... I know people who, piloting a T3 cruiser, can scan you down with 1-2 moves of the probes, which can take roughly 15-20 seconds, all this given they have rough idea of where you curently are. If this change is implemented the time to scan you down will be even less (<15s?). I personally would welcome such quick predefined geometric positioning of the probes. +1, skilled hunters will probe you in 1- 2 scan, because the starting range of their probes will be really low, cause they already pinpointed a small area of space you are in using d-scan first, with probes already launched out of your scan range and ready to scan the area.
a skilled hunter will probe you down with combat probes on your dscan for less than 15 sec provided you are in cruiser or bigger
or will use regular probes if he think you are running a sig, to avoid scaring you with thoses scary scary combat probes  |

seth Hendar
I love you miners
24
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Posted - 2013.03.12 16:55:00 -
[33] - Quote
Thelonious Blake wrote:Remnant Madeveda wrote:The D-Scan is your friend. What I tried to say is that with the current mechanics you have to CLICK the D-Scan every 20-30 seconds. If this thing gets implemented you will have to CLICK it every 10 or so seconds.Now, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind having this implemented. Only if we could get some auto d-scanning option and we can still keep an eye on the d-scan.
agreed on the different proposal here, but this one not much.
OR, make auto dscan, but give it a malus, like a bigger sig radius vs scanning probes.
after all, it's more or less like a sub sweep, and sub knows that constant sweeping makes you easier to pinpoint (or passive vs active radar etc...) |
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