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Spektral
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Posted - 2005.08.12 22:12:00 -
[1]
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2005.08.12 22:19:00 -
[2]
Coming soon to a thread near you....
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
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Vilserx
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Posted - 2005.08.12 23:24:00 -
[3]
One of the better missile ideas that has been posted imo.
Might be difficult to program though.
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VSX EVE Design |
Sentani
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Posted - 2005.08.12 23:31:00 -
[4]
all missile need is a hitsystem... just like the turrets...
imagine how crapy damage you would make with turrets without a the existing hitsystem..
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Spektral
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Posted - 2005.08.13 00:39:00 -
[5]
Well we already have equipment that uses radius from ship to function. Ergo, use missiles that approcah the ships "bubble" much like a turret shot (a much slower version of an arty shot for example) then it "launches" from the point in which it intersects with the "bubble" That should result in fairly easy coding.
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Wrayeth
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Posted - 2005.08.13 01:13:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 13/08/2005 01:14:29
Sounds decent.
-Wrayeth |
Naughty Boy
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Posted - 2005.08.13 01:34:00 -
[7]
I like it better than the new system. It would make "long range" and "missiles" more compatible. It would give missiles something comparable to "tracking" which totally lacks in the current system and is a problem for short range ships.
However, I suspect that this system would require more calculations, asking more resources to the server.
Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.13 02:00:00 -
[8]
Edited by: j0sephine on 13/08/2005 02:01:46
"Any comments?"
The damage of torpedo and cruise missiles against their intended target is considerably high as it is, close to damage output of turrets with the heaviest ammo. Giving such weapon ability to quickly cross up to over 100 km and then reliably hit the large ships... effectively turns Raven with siege launchers into a blasterthron with 120 km optimal, or of the railthron (with loaded antimatter) with 110 km optimal, if you put the cruise launchers on her.
I suppose if something like that was to happen, the counter --in order to keep things semi-sane-- would be nerfing damage of these missiles to the point where Raven would become what Cerberus is now, damage-wise, and receive all her damage-related problems. And to be honest i wouldn't like to see that >.<;
(but v.interesting idea as far as the overall missile system goes ^^;
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Cosmic Dragon
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Posted - 2005.08.13 02:51:00 -
[9]
Some of the best ideas as an alternative to the current system ive seen well done.
Personally tho i feel missiles are about right already.for example a heavy widomaker missile fired by me at a cruiser did 160 damage now according to the missiles stats its base dmage was around that area.
now its ammo size is about 0.3 compare thaat with antimatter medium ammo size 0.1. Now average damage with antimatter medium with good skills is 80 x 3 = 240 now this is more than the single heavy missile i hear you say true but listen on ,y missile skills are nonexistent ive got the bare MINIMUM to use heavy missiles and this damage was from one missile and the guns were from 2 salvoes of 4 railguns [ some missed others barly scratched] however the same ship i used has 4 misile launchers.
So if i fired a full salvo 4 railguns and 4 missiles the total damage will be [assuming same figres as before] missiles = 640 railguns = 320
This is assuming all guns hit perfectly and the missiles perform as they usually do doing damage between 140 - 180.
Point of this is true missiles dont do massive damage anymore [Indervidualy ] but you do get more damage to target faster. Thats why i think missiles are really cool now they kill stuff in a different way to guns and do it well.
Beauty Is In The Eye Of The Beer Holder!!! |
ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2005.08.13 09:24:00 -
[10]
Wow. I really like that idea. Seems like it would be realistic and be a better implementation. Not sure how they'd program it in though...
I've still gotta crank the concept around in my head for a little bit, but it sounds neat. My only lament is that it'll never likely get more than a passing glance from the devs, as they'll doubtless think "no way I'm redoing missiles AGAIN"
-Electrofreak
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.08.13 11:14:00 -
[11]
makes sense.
altho a litle change could fix whats broken imo, minimize the signature radius effect on missiles but make the speed effect more important
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iNs4ne
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Posted - 2005.08.13 11:23:00 -
[12]
 Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
makes sense.
altho a litle change could fix whats broken imo, minimize the signature radius effect on missiles but make the speed effect more important
/Signed...
even a small change would ballance things up a bit...
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.08.13 11:26:00 -
[13]
signed with all my accs and the army of alts
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2005.08.13 13:42:00 -
[14]
/trashed
Let them adjust the current system and leave it alone. Missiles are almost to the promise land don't expect anything radical for a long time.
jide's oBject eXplorer
The Nest
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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2005.08.13 13:53:00 -
[15]
Its a balance issue, not a reality issue.
If CCP had gone for reality alot of things would be very different.
CCP wants you to use small missiles vs small ships and large missiles vs large ships.
Sadly for a very long time all but the torps were pointless as the torps outperformed every other missile in every way, this has now changed but I still hear people complain they do very little damage with torps against fast friggs.
Torps are not designed to be used against friggs, think of it as the torp haveing a tough time tracking the frig and thus its proximity detonator tends to detonate too early or too late meening the frig in reality is almost out of the blast radius, this could be true even for a stationary frigg.
Nomatter how you explain it it all comes down to one thing, balance.
Under the old missile version the torp was a sure thing, launch them at an NPC and it would with 100% hit and do full damage nomatter what the target is.
This has now been modified so the missiles will be more balanced as compared to other weapon systems, they may not have landed spot on but then how many of you helped balance the new missiles on singularity?
It hasent been much of a secret that the changes were comming and I read quite a few posts about them pre patch but seeing as the average number of players on singularity seem to be constant at round 50 I very much doubt many of the missile users were testing out the new rules to be able to help the devs pinpoint where missiles should be.
Thus the devs did what they could and now we have to live with some balancing after the patch.
Personally I use missiles on almost all my ships and I feel they work very well, they sucked old sox just after the patch naturally but after training the new missile skills upp I have found them to work very well indeed, some of the missile types are actually better after the patch than before.
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20. Is it true all pvpers have carebear alts?
Yes, of course. I have so much fun looking up who's alt is who's
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online |
Spektral
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Posted - 2005.08.16 00:15:00 -
[16]
Agreed, thats why the speeds in terminal attack mode would be reduced, ships would have an opportunity to get away from the missiles. And frigs that approched the target would get splatted like bugs, but transversal would allow a frig to get enuff speed to get either away from missle or attenutate the damage. Bigger ships less so, but thats why they have the larger armor. As far as coding , the ships do have a known radius from them at all times, ergo web range, SB range, etc. As soon as a missile crossed the lock threshold for say a web, the missile would them go into terminal maneuvers. This should be extremely easy to code, and by using this hybrid of missile systems you might find balance better. Skills that are currently trained could be renamed to help augment the new missile skills rather then losing the effort from the players that are dedicated missile users. Missiles do need a second method of defense, one that is turret based. Perhaps a Laser CIWS system with a 15km range? with a percentile hit chance? fire rate would be 1-2 seconds, beam could be set to non visible spectrum (Gamma ray) so as to not be visible (reduces coding). Faster ships would be able to hold the missles off longer to allow CIWS to knock them down. There are many ships that do not have an option for anti missile (thorax, Arma, etc) These systems would have no ability to harm other ships, or if so, very reduced damange as to be mostly ineffective.
Missiles arent quite where they need to be, close though, missiles need to be set so major defenses are active defenses or a ship quality. Speed shouldnt mitigate damage inherently. a Missile hits you, It should bloody smash ya hard. But a Missile is relatively dumb, and with plannin one can mitigate their damage potential much like a good pvper can mitigate turrets (decaying spiral). Missiles could be set that way as well
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Hugh Ruka
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Posted - 2005.08.16 00:53:00 -
[17]
Well I like the idea, but I do not think it is an appropriate solution. The way missiles work now is quite OK with me. We only need some more variety in them. Look at only small hybrid turrets for example, there are a few versions of blasters and a few versions of rails. Also there is variety in ammunition that alters turret behaviour. Looking in the misile department, I see rocket and standard launcher as counter parts. Looks like too few to me. Also missiles/rockets vary only in type of damage, nothing more. Why are there no light missiles with reduced flight time but greater damage? Fuel vs warhead trade off in the same missile ? Why are there not different explosives used to alter blast radius and explosion velocity ? I also lack the heavy/cuise launcher counter part for the rocket launcher. Same size of missile but less damage vs greater ROF ?
I think that is the way to go. Missile users now have too few options how to fit their ships for different situations. We get ok as sniper platforms (when looking for range), but are inferior when it comes to DPS.
My dream is a modular launcher aproach. Imagine a heavy launcher fitted with rockets. The trick would be each "missile" loaded would be a small rocket launcher for say 5-10 rockets. So firing one heavy would result in 5-10 rockets seeking their target. With the penalty of heavy launcher ROF and rocket stats. This modularity extended to all launchers (cruise fitted with light/rockets could fix the problem. But this needs more calculations, as it could unbalance the things way more than is desired.
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Darthbob
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Posted - 2005.08.16 01:13:00 -
[18]
I can see this type of solution not working out for a few reasons. First of all is the web. Lets say a tackler goes after a Raven. Tackler rushes Raven. Raven hits tackler with 3 webs. Raven annihilates tackler with torps. Even if the tackler went after another battleship it could just web them and wait for the Raven to pop it with torps. Second, using Signature Radius to determine hits. Frigs genrally use Microwarps, and painters and microwarps are a frightening combination. Pop a few on that microwarping frig out and his sig might be so big the missile would hit before it even lowered its speed to hit. Maybe having it drop out 7.5K + Sig Radius away? The next would be Microwarping battleships. Those can easily go faster than a standard frig, and thus would be able to keep away from torpedos completely. I do like the idea in general, though. If there was a way to work though those problems I could see it working out rather well.
Darthbob |
ELECTR0FREAK
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Posted - 2005.08.16 07:51:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Fester Addams
This has now been modified so the missiles will be more balanced as compared to other weapon systems, they may not have landed spot on but then how many of you helped balance the new missiles on singularity?
o/
Was kinda hard though when they didn't place any HACs on the market (No Cerb testing) no Assault Ships, Interceptors (like the Crow), and some retards kept taking the stacks of 100k Cruise missiles from the hangar and buying out all the ones on the market.
Some of us really tried to help...
-Electrofreak
Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
Spektral
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Posted - 2005.08.16 18:14:00 -
[20]
Ok for the guy that has the issue with webs and frigs and missiles obliterating them when caught.... THEY SHOULD DIE!!! Come on people, a stationary target should get the full brunt of the blast, thats like saying a parked Pinto can survive a mk82 2000lb better then a a moving Hummer.
Ridiculous, A BS that has sacrificed slots to do that to a frig will be easier meat for BS, that creates more mixed fleets. Frigs are supposed to be fragile, but effective.
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