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Ruareve
Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective
99
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Posted - 2013.03.05 17:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
I just got done reading the thread about adding a 3rd bonus to the Harbi and I got to thinking what would Eve be like if there was a ship that had no bonuses but was customizable like a T3 cruiser.
Instead of being designed for armor or shield tanking it had the exact same base stats and the pilot would install the subsystem they preferred for tanking either one. So a shield tank would give a 3% per level bonus to resists and a 3% boost per level to shield booster. (Numbers can be adjusted but the point is to be less than a standard BC bonus)
Then the pilot picks out the weapon system between any of the turrets or missiles depending on what they prefer, but following the pattern of lower bonuses than the regular ships.
I think the stealth options from T3 cruisers and the interdiction nullifier options should no be included though, but in return this ship should be relatively cheap to manufacture, somewhere around 100mil with subsytems installed. Still expensive for a BC but very affordable for the ability to customize to the pilots preferences.
This would add an unknown to fights since each one could be very different depending on how the pilot likes to fly which means engagements would be more exciting.
I've read a lot of books about space battles and one theme seems to be the versatility of the BC class due to it's affordability, size, and overall design. Eve lacks a ship that allows for customization and I think there is room for a ship which can be tailored to a pilots preference without having to swap hulls and train multiple factions.
Yet another blog about Eve- http://ruar-eve.blogspot.com/ |

Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
58
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Posted - 2013.03.06 10:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Superb idea anything that gives pilots more choice has to be a good thing. |

Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
383
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Posted - 2013.03.06 16:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sounds like a Jove version of a T3.
I quite like the idea personally. MODULAR DRONES
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Stegas Tyrano
GLU CANU Open Space Consultancy
243
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Posted - 2013.03.06 17:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
The bonuses on ships can reduce the amount of fits it could potentially use as if you don't fit according to the Ships bonuses you might as well buy something else.
The new SOCT cruiser that they may add looks fairly generic and does have bonuses to everything but it may be a limited edition one off.
If anything I like the idea of a ship with 5 rig slots and a bonus to all fitted rigs as well as a neutral slot layout like the Gnosis.
A battlecruiser class may not be viable as it could encroach on the T3 cruisers. Make it either a Battleship or a Frigate. [PROPOSAL] INGAME ADVERTS FOR PLAYERS |

Ruareve
Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective
100
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 17:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Stegas Tyrano wrote:The bonuses on ships can reduce the amount of fits it could potentially use as if you don't fit according to the Ships bonuses you might as well buy something else. The new SOCT cruiser that they may add looks fairly generic and does have bonuses to everything but it may be a limited edition one off. If anything I like the idea of a ship with 5 rig slots and a bonus to all fitted rigs as well as a neutral slot layout like the Gnosis. A battlecruiser class may not be viable as it could encroach on the T3 cruisers. Make it either a Battleship or a Frigate.
I thought about a frigate but they are kinda flimsy to put subsystems into. I'd love to see a generic build ship for each class but I think as an experiment the BC line is optimal for cost, versatility, and training time.
A BS version would be awesome as well but it would probably be around 300mil or so which isn't too bad but puts it out of cost range for a lot of folks for PVP, would be great for PVE though.
Personally I tend to prefer heavy tanked ships with good speed and low dps or no dps and filling a support role. Unfortunately it's tough to find a ship that caters to my play style sometimes. I'd gladly pay a bit more to have a ship which fits my preferences even if it is weaker then a dedicated ship which isn't as much fun for me to fly. Yet another blog about Eve- http://ruar-eve.blogspot.com/ |

Corey Fumimasa
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
202
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Posted - 2013.03.06 21:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
I would like to see ORE making "civilian" grade combat ships. Not to say that these couldn't be very formidible; rather ships that are not designed to fit into a specific doctrine. The OP would fit right into that.
so +1
This is a youtube playlist going over my first 30 ship losses. Video sucks but the audio came out well.There are some good lessons, and if you know the game there's some funny stories. |

sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
838
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Posted - 2013.03.06 22:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
We need T3 BCs and T3 BS that were promised years ago. Should've been done by now. Instead, CCP just ditched products of the best and more successful expansion of Eve. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
663
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 23:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quote:We need T3 BCs and T3 BS that were promised years ago. Should've been done by now. Instead, CCP just ditched products of the best and more successful expansion of Eve.
T3 cruisers are by far the least balanced ship class in the game and they were even worse when they were released.
Quote:This would add an unknown to fights since each one could be very different depending on how the pilot likes to fly which means engagements would be more exciting.
You mean more random. Fewer engagements determined by skill and planning and more by sheer luck. EVE currently strikes a great balance where you have good freedom to fit your ship in different ways, but not so much that individual ships have no identity and opponents have no idea what they're up against when they see it.
Further, such an open system is almost impossible to balance properly. See: t3 cruisers. |

Ruareve
Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective
101
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 04:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
[quote=Kahega Amielden]Quote:Quote:This would add an unknown to fights since each one could be very different depending on how the pilot likes to fly which means engagements would be more exciting.
You mean more random. Fewer engagements determined by skill and planning and more by sheer luck. EVE currently strikes a great balance where you have good freedom to fit your ship in different ways, but not so much that individual ships have no identity and opponents have no idea what they're up against when they see it. Further, such an open system is almost impossible to balance properly. See: t3 cruisers.
No, I don't mean random. I meant unknown.
When you see a drake you know it's missile fit, when you see a ferox it's just about gonna be blaster and rails are easy to identify. Before the engagement even starts you know the optimum actions to take based on the role each ship is designed to fill.
Yes, I know there are times when someone pulls off a fit that is unusual but these types of fits are almost always situational, the entire fleet has to be built around the oddball, and they are rarely used.
What I want to see is a ship that when you see it you aren't sure how it will be fit. You can get some idea by the fleet it's in, but you can't be sure. A small gang could fly nothing but those ships and opponents couldn't be sure of what they were up against until the engagement started.
As far as balance is concerned, I think I covered that when I pointed out the bonuses would always be lower then the dedicated ships.
Lets compare to the Drake since most people are familiar with that hull.
Drake gets 25% to resists and 25% to damage at max level.
The modular BC would get 15% to resists and a max of 15% to damage. So why would I want the modular BC if it's more expensive and has smaller bonus?
Because with the MBC I could change that 15% to resists to a buffer focused build, I could put on HAMs with a 15% dmg bonus, Add in a speed subsystem at the cost of reduced capacitor, and fight as a close in brawler with missiles. Someone else could put on an active shield tank, go with neuts and drones, use capacitor boosting subsystems, and fight as a shield neut ship.
Alternately I would like to see new variations of existing hulls. Why not a Drake-B which is designed to be an in close brawler with boost to buffer tank and HAMs only? Why can't we have a Vexor with no turrets, active tanked, lots of speed and a full flight of heavy drones with reduced range to make a ship that has to be in close but can do good damage?
I know they are working on balancing the ships, but I think the game would be more fun with more variety. There has to be an effective way of giving players more options in ship design and not pigeon holing players into a specific fit because of bonuses and soft stats. Yet another blog about Eve- http://ruar-eve.blogspot.com/ |

Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
384
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 09:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ruareve wrote:Drake gets 25% to resists and 25% to damage at max level. It gets 50% to kinetic damage, but I see your point. Looking at the Gnosis as an example of versatility, the modular mechanic, while attractive, is not necessary. Realistically, what your portraying is, IMO, how T3 should be, not the OP monsters they are now.
I say this and I have 5 of them for various activities between my accounts.
The concept of "give and take", rather than "give and give" seems like it would be easier to balance than the current T3's. A blank canvas of a ship, with the sub's dictating the final result.
I think this could work for the rebalance of T3 more so than the introduction of a new hull. Maybe then T3 could be introduced to other hulls. Versatility being the whole point, rather than just adding more power to an already powerful hull, you would need to give something to gain something. MODULAR DRONES
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Ruareve
Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective
101
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 10:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:Ruareve wrote:Drake gets 25% to resists and 25% to damage at max level. It gets 50% to kinetic damage, but I see your point. Looking at the Gnosis as an example of versatility, the modular mechanic, while attractive, is not necessary. Realistically, what your portraying is, IMO, how T3 should be, not the OP monsters they are now. I say this and I have 5 of them for various activities between my accounts. The concept of "give and take", rather than "give and give" seems like it would be easier to balance than the current T3's. A blank canvas of a ship, with the sub's dictating the final result. I think this could work for the rebalance of T3 more so than the introduction of a new hull. Maybe then T3 could be introduced to other hulls. Versatility being the whole point, rather than just adding more power to an already powerful hull, you would need to give something to gain something.
I can completely agree with your assessment. I own a Tengu but only used it for speed tanking missions. While it was fun I could see where the dps was OP compared to a BS for the same missions. T3's should be jack of all trades, master of none but in their current form they do have areas where they are the best option and this should never be the case.
I'd like to see the mold broken even more so that a Tengu could mount lasers, run drones, or tank armor as well as having shield and missile options. Yet another blog about Eve- http://ruar-eve.blogspot.com/ |

Hakan MacTrew
Caledonian Light Industries Sick N' Twisted
386
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 11:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ruareve wrote:I can completely agree with your assessment. I own a Tengu but only used it for speed tanking missions. While it was fun I could see where the dps was OP compared to a BS for the same missions. T3's should be jack of all trades, master of none but in their current form they do have areas where they are the best option and this should never be the case.
I'd like to see the mold broken even more so that a Tengu could mount lasers, run drones, or tank armor as well as having shield and missile options. As long as it's could fit and not getting a bonus towards technology that the race doesn't use, I'm fine with that.
Of course, there is always the oopportunity for a Jove like T3 that could have subs for just about everything. Maybe the SOCT could create it and its development could be leaked to the public by an entity such as The Broker.
All that said, I am intersted in a concept that someone brought up a few months ago. Building your own pirate ships. If there was a way to combine tech from different races to create unique ships, I would be very interested in that. MODULAR DRONES
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Ruareve
Applied Creations The Fendahlian Collective
102
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 16:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
Hakan MacTrew wrote:Ruareve wrote:I can completely agree with your assessment. I own a Tengu but only used it for speed tanking missions. While it was fun I could see where the dps was OP compared to a BS for the same missions. T3's should be jack of all trades, master of none but in their current form they do have areas where they are the best option and this should never be the case.
I'd like to see the mold broken even more so that a Tengu could mount lasers, run drones, or tank armor as well as having shield and missile options. As long as it's could fit and not getting a bonus towards technology that the race doesn't use, I'm fine with that. Of course, there is always the oopportunity for a Jove like T3 that could have subs for just about everything. Maybe the SOCT could create it and its development could be leaked to the public by an entity such as The Broker. All that said, I am intersted in a concept that someone brought up a few months ago. Building your own pirate ships. If there was a way to combine tech from different races to create unique ships, I would be very interested in that.
I think a bonus would need to be present for any of the tech regardless of whether or not it's empire specific. Why should it be impossible for Caldari engineers to figure out how an AC works and make a subsystem designed to use them? The bonus would always be less then the ships designed for those weapon systems or tech, so I don't see balance being an issue. Yet another blog about Eve- http://ruar-eve.blogspot.com/ |

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
665
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 16:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
Quote:No, I don't mean random. I meant unknown.
When you see a drake you know it's missile fit, when you see a ferox it's just about gonna be blaster and rails are easy to identify. Before the engagement even starts you know the optimum actions to take based on the role each ship is designed to fill.
Yes, I know there are times when someone pulls off a fit that is unusual but these types of fits are almost always situational, the entire fleet has to be built around the oddball, and they are rarely used.
What I want to see is a ship that when you see it you aren't sure how it will be fit. You can get some idea by the fleet it's in, but you can't be sure. A small gang could fly nothing but those ships and opponents couldn't be sure of what they were up against until the engagement started.
And why is that desirable, exactly? Why should players have less information about what they're going to be up against? If we want to make combat more interesting wouldn't we want to give people more tools to react to their opponents?
Quote:The modular BC would get 15% to resists and a max of 15% to damage. So why would I want the modular BC if it's more expensive and has smaller bonus?
Because with the MBC I could change that 15% to resists to a buffer focused build, I could put on HAMs with a 15% dmg bonus, Add in a speed subsystem at the cost of reduced capacitor, and fight as a close in brawler with missiles. Someone else could put on an active shield tank, go with neuts and drones, use capacitor boosting subsystems, and fight as a shield neut ship.
In what way are resists suboptimal for a buffer fit? A resist mod is exactly what you would want on a buffer-tanked ship. The Drake's damage bonus already applies to HAMs. The only thing you listed that the Drake doesn't already do is go fast...But you can already do that by using low slots/rig slots for nanos.
If you want a neuty drone boat, fly a Prophecy. If it has to be shield tanked, fly a Curse.
Quote:I know they are working on balancing the ships, but I think the game would be more fun with more variety. There has to be an effective way of giving players more options in ship design and not pigeon holing players into a specific fit because of bonuses and soft stats.
As discussed before, pidgeonholing on some level is good. Being able to know something about your enemy before you fight them allows for counterplay and interesting strategy, whereas the alternative is just a dice roll.
More ships, however, is always a good thing, but it should really wait until the rebalance is done. |
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