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Zondran
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Posted - 2005.08.14 08:02:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Zondran on 14/08/2005 08:02:10
It took some training time to adapt to the missile overhaul but now my raven is back in quite a good shape. However one thing is extremly annoying: Defender Missiles. Missiles are the only weapons which can be countered. In a fight against e.g. a supreme drone parasite, I lose an average of 2 cms to defenders. Any ship with a simple rocket launcher fitted can reduce my firepower massively, unless i use torps which are not first choice anymore.
CCP, either remove defenders completely form the game or introduce counter measures for all other turrets, too. I'd also be ok with a skill which gives me the ability to save my missiles from being killed by defenders. Anyway, this is a massive disadvantage to missiles overall and should be adjusted.
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Blind Fear
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Posted - 2005.08.14 08:06:00 -
[2]
Like this?
Oh, and I wont even get into how defenders are useless now, while tracking disruptors wtfpwn turret battleships.
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Derailing threads with logic since 1992 |
infused
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Posted - 2005.08.14 08:14:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Blind Fear
Like this?
Oh, and I wont even get into how defenders are useless now, while tracking disruptors wtfpwn turret battleships.
[EvE Domination]
[Kaos Killboard] |
Meridius
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Posted - 2005.08.14 08:24:00 -
[4]
You Caldari characters need a lot more int, IRL
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Thor Darkwing
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Posted - 2005.08.14 08:52:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Blind Fear
Like this?
Oh, and I wont even get into how defenders are useless now, while tracking disruptors wtfpwn turret battleships.
someone posted before thinking ey=)
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TIO 101
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Posted - 2005.08.14 09:05:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Meridius
You Caldari characters need a lot more int, IRL
seconded.
TIO 101 - TheInvisibleOne
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scary girl
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Posted - 2005.08.14 09:26:00 -
[7]
How about they make tracking disruptors a hi slot module so it doesn't screw over a raven defence setup? Or maybe you would prefer defenders taking up low slots and gimping your uber armour tanking setup?
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Del Narveux
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Posted - 2005.08.14 09:39:00 -
[8]
Defenders just need to be buffed up so they work right, and maybe tweak missle speeds so its easier to hit them with smartbombs. Conversely, either up missle damage or reduce the speed/sig damage reduction. The whole point of missle combat is to have something different from "hey guys, lets turn on all our mods and watch!" as they actually involve a lot of player skill, i.e. fitting and when to use defenders/sb. Unfortunately all anyone seems to want lately is to turn missles into a sort of overpowered turret.
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Originally by: Wrangler
Well, at least we have forum PvP..
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TIO 101
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Posted - 2005.08.14 09:40:00 -
[9]
Originally by: scary girl
How about they make tracking disruptors a hi slot module so it doesn't screw over a raven defence setup? Or maybe you would prefer defenders taking up low slots and gimping your uber armour tanking setup?
We (non caldari) sacrifice firepower to defend from missiles (smartbombs/defenders), All caldari ships have 'large' amounts of M slots, and its still possible to armour tank some ships, and defending from turret ship's you lose a little tanking ability, but still retain all your firepower..
TIO 101 - TheInvisibleOne
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Zondran
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Posted - 2005.08.14 10:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Blind Fear
Like this?
Oh, and I wont even get into how defenders are useless now, while tracking disruptors wtfpwn turret battleships.
Proposal accepted. Looking forward to have NPC use them in game soon  .
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nahtoh
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Posted - 2005.08.14 12:50:00 -
[11]
Originally by: TIO 101
We (non caldari) sacrifice firepower to defend from missiles (smartbombs/defenders), All caldari ships have 'large' amounts of M slots, and its still possible to armour tank some ships, and defending from turret ship's you lose a little tanking ability, but still retain all your firepower..
And ofcourse its impossable to fit any damaging missile in teh launcher you use for defenders...Oh wait no its not...
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but
why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the
problem solve itself" (credits to mcallister TCS)
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2005.08.14 13:08:00 -
[12]
Problem is missiles are gurranteed to hit their target once fired (bar the target warping out of course).
Defendings help create a "miss" situation with missiles. Although I agree that a point defence turret would be cool, heck even giving a player the option to make one of their guns switch to missile defence instead of normal fire could work.
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Therin Dracul
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Posted - 2005.08.14 13:10:00 -
[13]
Your missing the point. Anyone who is a die-hard turret user at this point has been that way because we've been snearing at you missile users for a while now.
We knew this day would come. So Mr. Cricket, how is the cold? :-p
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Sleazy Cabbie
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Posted - 2005.08.14 13:32:00 -
[14]
Originally by: nahtoh
Originally by: TIO 101
We (non caldari) sacrifice firepower to defend from missiles (smartbombs/defenders), All caldari ships have 'large' amounts of M slots, and its still possible to armour tank some ships, and defending from turret ship's you lose a little tanking ability, but still retain all your firepower..
And ofcourse its impossable to fit any damaging missile in teh launcher you use for defenders...Oh wait no its not...
Yeah because it's really nice to lose all defense AND offense to switch missiles in combat, as opposed to turning on a mid slot mod.
Caldari ships have been so cheese-overpowered since the beginning, it's about time we saw some viable alternatives.
Ya know, maybe if projectiles hadn't been GIMPED for 2 years I'd have some sympathy, but then again no, not really because missiles really were that cheesy.
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Ronin Woman
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Posted - 2005.08.15 02:00:00 -
[15]
I could be wrong but, I'm under the impression that defenders are seeing a correcting tweak in the upcoming patch.
I disagree with the author about removing them from the game.
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Harry MacDougal
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Posted - 2005.08.15 06:40:00 -
[16]
Sure, get rid of defenders. Of course, at the same time, you have to get rid of FoF missiles and expand tracking disruptors so that they make it so missiles can only fly in a straight line. Maybe just make it so that the range on a missile launcher cut in half and the RoF increased by 1.11x. That ought to have the same effect as a tracking disruptor and gets rid of those nice missile perks for when you're jammed.
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Your 720mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Guristas Spy, wrecking for 411.2 damage. |
Dsanta2345
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Posted - 2005.08.15 06:59:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Blind Fear
Like this?
Oh, and I wont even get into how defenders are useless now, while tracking disruptors wtfpwn turret battleships.
 Im an addict
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2005.08.15 08:49:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Meridius
You Caldari characters need a lot more int, IRL
That implies they actually have a brain.
Mai's Idealog |
Cosmic Dragon
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Posted - 2005.08.15 09:25:00 -
[19]
Originally by: MaiLina KaTar
Originally by: Meridius
You Caldari characters need a lot more int, IRL
That implies they actually have a brain.
They do its just that there familly has borrowed the family braincell today
Beauty Is In The Eye Of The Beer Holder!!! |
Rodj Blake
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Posted - 2005.08.15 09:25:00 -
[20]
Defenders are more difficult to use now than before the missile overhaul.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
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kieron
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Posted - 2005.08.15 12:01:00 -
[21]
Defender missiles are getting some love and will see some improvements. The Game Design team are swapping e-mails about how to improve them at this very moment.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.08.15 12:03:00 -
[22]
Originally by: kieron
Defender missiles are getting some love and will see some improvements. The Game Design team are swapping e-mails about how to improve them at this very moment.
just make that tracking disruptor cuts missle flight time and their sig resolution.
everything else is hard to balance
Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now? |
sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.08.15 12:11:00 -
[23]
good to see defenders getting new modules and other improvements
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mahhy
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Posted - 2005.08.15 12:16:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Nafri
just make that tracking disruptor cuts missle flight time and their sig resolution.
Now that idea I want to see 
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kieron
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Posted - 2005.08.15 12:40:00 -
[25]
Originally by: sonofollo
good to see defenders getting new modules and other improvements
I didn't state that new modules were in dev, only that improvements are being discussed.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
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Dionysus Davinci
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Posted - 2005.08.15 12:50:00 -
[26]
Originally by: kieron
I didn't state that new modules were in dev, only that improvements are being discussed.
They biggest improvement would proably be you turn them on, they stay on and fire when they have a NEW target.
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Bozse
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Posted - 2005.08.15 13:15:00 -
[27]
I do agree with the poster, atleast in what he is trying to say wich i take as remove them from npc's as it's there he seems to have he's problem.
As turret users dont realy have the issue with tracking disrupting npc's why shuld missile users have to stand for defenders from them.
In ordinary use for PVP keep and improve them.
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Narine
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Posted - 2005.08.15 15:43:00 -
[28]
But... i like my defenders! They kill the enemy torps before they make me cry!
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"I¦m not even supposed to be here!", Dante. |
Sydonis
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Posted - 2005.08.15 15:55:00 -
[29]
Missiles are seriously hard to stop, even WITH defenders right now - even if you jam the ship with ECM, they'll just pop FOF's at you (assuming the pilot has the brains to carry some).
Hit a turret-user with ECM and they're useless.
I'd still like to see point-defence turrets for the gallente ships that don't get launcher slots - like the Thorax or the Dominix. Making Defenders (and point defence turrets if they come in) auto-fire once there are missiles to fire at, rather than waiting for there to be a missile to hit would be nice though - right now, you need a missile aimed at you and launched before you can activate the module... if you could activate the launcher ahead of time and have it idle until a missile is launched, it would make them better.
I'd also like to see a defender-launcher perhaps - like a rocket launcher, but only able to carry defenders and with a higher ROF (and perhaps a higher capacity). The tradeoff comes that it's useless against a ship that doesn't use missiles and would have no offensive capability.
Before anyone quotes the fact that launchers can be heard - consider this... in a battle, you cannot tell if a missile is aimed at you (perhaps a HUD marker for incoming missiles?) and most people turn off the sound in a large battle to cut down on lag and on noise.
But losing defenders would be too much I think - making the NPC defenders the same as player-fired defenders would help though - I think the NPC ones are better.
Just a thought.
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John Blackthorn
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Posted - 2005.08.15 15:59:00 -
[30]
I think you will find this interesting. Torp level 5, cruise level 4, heavy missle level 5. All other missle skills level 4.
Firing em and and exposive heavy missles missles at a muni and doing 18 damge. So on my scorp thats 18x4 per 14 seconds.
Firing cruise missles of several differnt types did an average of 22-27 x 4 damage every 17 seconds.
Firing Torp missles did aboue the same as cruise but they are slower to hit and at times seem to be only slightly less in damage thatn cruise.
One Rocket launcher firing defenders can take out 2 missles before they can hit.
Now how in the hell do you call that fair play?
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.08.15 18:08:00 -
[31]
Originally by: mahhy
Originally by: Nafri
just make that tracking disruptor cuts missle flight time and their sig resolution.
Now that idea I want to see
At least thy would still hit a stil standing target, more or less, depinding on range, but moving targets... lala... no hit at all
Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now? |
Nafri
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Posted - 2005.08.15 18:12:00 -
[32]
Originally by: mahhy
Originally by: Nafri
just make that tracking disruptor cuts missle flight time and their sig resolution.
Now that idea I want to see
At least thy would still hit a stil standing target, more or less, depinding on range, but moving targets... lala... no hit at all
Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now? |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2005.08.15 18:15:00 -
[33]
Originally by: kieron
Defender missiles are getting some love and will see some improvements. The Game Design team are swapping e-mails about how to improve them at this very moment.
Can I make a suggestion? One word:
FLAK
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2005.08.15 19:53:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: kieron
Defender missiles are getting some love and will see some improvements. The Game Design team are swapping e-mails about how to improve them at this very moment.
Can I make a suggestion? One word:
FLAK
Isn't FLAK just shrapnel? Not sure how that would help defenders. Don't you mean CHAFF?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Jessa
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Posted - 2005.08.15 20:01:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: kieron
Defender missiles are getting some love and will see some improvements. The Game Design team are swapping e-mails about how to improve them at this very moment.
Can I make a suggestion? One word:
FLAK
Isn't FLAK just shrapnel? Not sure how that would help defenders. Don't you mean CHAFF?
who cares? flak frigates (and their effects) were cool in homeworld 2 (though they were designed to shoot down fighter craft) theres no reason why the same thing wouldnt work in eve as a point defence/anti missile ship.
Or something.
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Ysolde Xen
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Posted - 2005.08.15 23:55:00 -
[36]
Well until there's a way for defenders to be launched and to track and swing around in time to actually hit missiles once fired now they're twice as fast, there is absolutely no point in frigates using them any more. Before, you needed them to avoid death from heavy/cruise/torp. Now it's the Lights that kill you and can't be stopped because they've hit you before your launcher has even fired. In a frigate, you are so close to the enemy (comparatively) that even Torps are too quick to be Defendered before it hits you. That needs fixing if frigates are ever to have a chance at missile defence. Well not just frigates, any close range ship. |
FireFoxx80
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Posted - 2005.08.16 10:17:00 -
[37]
Yeah the problem is now, due to the assault launcher PG increase, you can no longer viably mount defenders on a frigate. Specific launchers for defenders, or even a new launcher would resolve this. 'Light Assault' launcher?
Possibly one of the 23 # ex: P-TMC | USAC |
Hellspawn666
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Posted - 2005.08.16 11:26:00 -
[38]
defenders need ferning if anything missiles are now VERY VERY fast so in pvp its pretty muich impossible to use defenders or smartbombs to evade missiles its ho wi used to coutner ravens but it never works anymore. Tracking disruptors work far better for taking down tureted ships and require far less attention. making it a hi slot wud make no sense anless u want to make all ewar high slot, personally wheather it high med or low only makes a difference depending on ure setup u can tank a raven with low slots.
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BLAIYNE
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Posted - 2005.08.16 12:52:00 -
[39]
Edited by: BLAIYNE on 16/08/2005 12:54:14
Originally by: kieron
Originally by: sonofollo
good to see defenders getting new modules and other improvements
I didn't state that new modules were in dev, only that improvements are being discussed.
If you're improving them, please can you also remove the bug where firing Defenders from Rocket Launchers causes your forward speed to drop to zero.
It's hard trying to warp out of a tricky situation if your speed drops to zero every time you fire a Defender, especially if you don't realise that's why it's happening!
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Skull Bunny
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Posted - 2005.08.16 15:15:00 -
[40]
Defenders do have their equivalent to turrets, if not in the same slot.
The one thang that missiles DO have that turrets have never had an equivalent for is F.O.F. Missiles. Once jammed, Turret ships are simply ****ed. Ravens can still drive off the ECM ship with FOFs.
Give us a turret ammo that self targets and Ill be happy. Don't say drones, because they are gimped and every race can use them (thou Gallente use them best).
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