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Muaddid
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Posted - 2003.07.22 18:29:00 -
[1]
Still no news on that, even if its a major issue and could be easily fixed...?  if its too ahrd to put it at a un-rent by use because of where items would go etc, at least issue a temp fix where you double the amount of office space avaible please !
On vacations (need a new sig too) |
Muaddid
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Posted - 2003.07.22 23:10:00 -
[2]
*bump* 
On vacations (need a new sig too) |
Varsuuk
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Posted - 2003.07.23 06:20:00 -
[3]
Gratuitous bumping will NOT be tolerated!
But seriously, it seems that office space is too limited due to the propensity to have so many small corps especially considering how low below the target server range we still are.
I give kudos on the lab/factory changes however! (even if I lost 250k today to a bug paying 5 leases and still have expired factory lease bills that can trap me in the future...)
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Muaddid
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Posted - 2003.07.23 06:51:00 -
[4]
Heh, if there was 25k people online at all time (which is like the total population of eve atm), factory/lab and especially offices would be a major problem... Player-owned stations will help but i think the "use or get ir unrent" format from labs and factory must be appplied to corp hangars, as well as adding alot more space
On vacations (need a new sig too) |
Aelita
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Posted - 2003.07.23 09:51:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Aelita on 23/07/2003 09:51:06
Yes this question deserve BUMP even it is against rules. This bug about offices to rent being hard punch to head for every CEO and starting corporations.
Without office corporation is unable to use 60% of corporation management features and security. Not to mention lack of stations at bvorder lines between 0.1 and 0.0 space.
Because player owned stations aren't in game and no one of us hear ETA for them. Lack of officess does kill new players and new corporations. Offices for rent are only on stations where aren't factory, laboratory and even reprocess/recycle service.
*BUMP* (TTT)
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2003.07.23 10:17:00 -
[6]
I would tend to agree.
My personal opinion is that there should be an unlimited number of offices at a station (after all there are an unlimited number of personal hangars). To stop huge numbers of offices opening everywhere what happens then is that at the end of the rental period the station looks at how many rents have been placed and increases the rent based on how many people want an office in that system. That way offices in stations with no facilities or ore nearby will be incredibly cheap, but offices in key stations - such as the nearest one to 0.0 space - will increase in price rapidly until the people who aren't that keen on paying cease renting. Eventually it will reach an equilibrium.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Severe McCald
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Posted - 2003.07.23 11:21:00 -
[7]
I believe that the main reason for so many offices is the need/desire for corp hanger space. We need this so as to operate as a corp.
However, if we could give access to specified personal hangers to individual members of our corps, the problem would, I think, be solved.
Would this undermine the value of the corp system?
SM
And Moses was content to dwell with the man:and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter. And she bare him a son, and he called his name Gershom:for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land. |
Natasha Nikolaev
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Posted - 2003.07.24 03:51:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Natasha Nikolaev on 24/07/2003 04:04:15
Muaddid is a studly pimpsta.  The station problem is determental to the corp system, especially smaller corps starting out. Either office max per station should be 25 (or around there) or there should be an activity requirement.
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Severe McCald
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Posted - 2003.07.24 11:53:00 -
[9]
Something seems to have happened to address this issue. The last two times I tried to open an office the rent was 10,0000 isk. Now this is not a huge amount to pay if you need that office, but it might be if you have one in every station.
I believe the problem will be solved within the month (as rents come up for renewal).
SM
And Moses was content to dwell with the man:and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter. And she bare him a son, and he called his name Gershom:for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land. |
Faramir
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Posted - 2003.07.24 12:40:00 -
[10]
This needs to be fixed... There is a 1-man corp in Orvolle, that has 4 offices in Orvolle alone... This can't be right... right?
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TuLak
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Posted - 2003.07.24 14:23:00 -
[11]
Damn. We cry more then 1 month about factories and labs. No one from CCP help with amounth of this facilities.
THen when CCP made 1 mistake with patch and rental period was this problem DURING 1 ! DAY resolved and we had 2* more facilities in stations.
So then we need NEXT ERROR from CCP and then maybe will be new offices in stations?
CCP why you didnt hear our crying  We are your child so please help US 
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Glider
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Posted - 2003.07.24 14:30:00 -
[12]
The number of offices available for renting is not a bug, but a game design decision.
"EVE Idea Lab" is more appropriate for this kind of discussion.
--
ISD - Bug Hunting Division |
TuLak
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Posted - 2003.07.24 14:39:00 -
[13]
It isnt bug, it is future.
Hmm, why we all know this answer from M$ ??
So oki, then we cry to silent.
But maybe is bug that you have offices rented to corporations with 0 !! members. But maybe it is future too.
Thanks for your answer.
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Bas Rutten
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Posted - 2003.07.24 14:49:00 -
[14]
No offense but ... how stupid is a game design that offers such a low amount of offices for a total of 100k players (in theory) on TQ?
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Deny the Urge - brutal Death from Germoney
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Zora
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Posted - 2003.07.24 15:29:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Zora on 24/07/2003 15:29:49
this is really a *big* problem.
i've been freelancing for a long time, now i created a corp together with a friend, and we got new members pretty quick.
all would be well, but we have not one office in any of our areas of operation.
if this is a "design decision", well then its obviously a pretty bad one. since you cant even unrent offices once you got one, there is absolutely no chance that the situation will get any better if nothing is changed about the system.
personally, this is the biggest issue i have with eve right now. and i think lots of other newly created corps have the same problem.
what use is a corp when you have to wait for each other to be online at the same station, just to be able to trade to each other? it makes no sense.
i hope this is resolved soon one way or the other, and that the devs take the issue seriously.
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Skarsnik
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Posted - 2003.07.24 15:34:00 -
[16]
Guys, it appears that the office space problem may have been addressed.
My corp has just recieved a renewal bill for four offices at 10000isk each, now believe me I'm not gonna renew at that cost...
Would anyone else??
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No Slugs were harmed in the creation of this signature
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Muaddid
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Posted - 2003.07.24 15:56:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Muaddid on 24/07/2003 15:57:34
erm, 10k isk for a month is nothing... i make 10 times as much hunting NPC for 5mins... even if it was 1m per month it would still be low for any decent corp, only new corps of newbies will get shafted...
 Quote:
The number of offices available for renting is not a bug, but a game design decision.
...thats just so scary that CCP would make such a bad game design decision... im glad its some polaris guy, that seems to have no clue, who posted that and not Hellmar or TomB...
On vacations (need a new sig too) |
Skarsnik
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Posted - 2003.07.24 16:56:00 -
[18]
Muaddid - So with you Uber corp as it is, doesn't care that N00bs cant get any foothold..
Are you saying you have loads of Offices all over the place and are gonna keep 'em? What use are they?
My corp has loads but hardly use em and we'll give up the ones we dont need happily, there just no way to do it.
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No Slugs were harmed in the creation of this signature
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Kaelor
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Posted - 2003.07.24 17:09:00 -
[19]
This, if a game design decision, is even more badly thought out than the factory/research issue. Have just been to a system with 4 stations and there are corps with office in every friggin station...obviously they have only done this to restrict the other corps from gaining any space and thus limiting any small corps growth. The issue is a simple one to fix, a corporation should be limited to the amount of offices it can have. Otherwise you end up with a few corps owning the large percentage of offices. And in realistic terms, they couldnt possibily hope to staff them all. This is yet again a lack of foresight by CCP.
They need to be fed more bananas ya hear!
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Hellmar
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Posted - 2003.07.24 17:25:00 -
[20]
We are working on it. Currently it is difficult for us to increase the number of offices available this is due to unnecessary flagging of the office containers.
We are however working on a change that will allow for unlimited offices at a station from a technical standpoint. They will of course never be unlimited but once we make the change it can be a game design decision.
Tentative ETA for the deployment of the fix is next weeks patch.
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Bas Rutten
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Posted - 2003.07.24 17:42:00 -
[21]
Thx Hellmar for an official statement ... looking forward to the changes
____________________________________
Deny the Urge - brutal Death from Germoney
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Muaddid
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Posted - 2003.07.24 17:50:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Muaddid on 24/07/2003 17:50:56
Quote:
Muaddid - So with you Uber corp as it is, doesn't care that N00bs cant get any foothold..
Are you saying you have loads of Offices all over the place and are gonna keep 'em? What use are they?
Actualy we've been slowed down ALOT by the lack of office space, and this is one of the reasons why i keep coming back with this topic...
Good to see Hellmar's on it 
On vacations (need a new sig too) |
Blinder
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Posted - 2003.07.24 17:54:00 -
[23]
In all honesty though the number of offices isn't as big a problem as the number of offices a corp is currently allowed to sustain, and how cheap it is for them to do so.
Only a few corps being able to have offices in a certain area is fine. The problem is that those same few corps can have offices EVERYWHERE without incurring some kind of resource drain or hitting an upper limit on their ability to manage their holdings. Maybe make it so that you get an office for each skill of corp management for each char in the corp (with diminishing returns starting after the 2nd or 3rd character, to keep people from just signing their alts up for 10 extra offices a go). Something that lets large corps be bigger than small corps, but that also means corps will be more likely to unrent an office (which needs to be possible) than to let it sit.
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Hellmar
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Posted - 2003.07.24 18:04:00 -
[24]
We have discussed solutions were the rent rate increases on all office rents in relation to how many offices the corp is renting in total.
SCC antitrust initiative or SCC space-station-estate resource allocation protection act.
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Kaelor
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Posted - 2003.07.24 18:08:00 -
[25]
***Fresh batch of bananas is on way***
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Tallon
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Posted - 2003.07.24 18:35:00 -
[26]
I think it would be fun to be a fly on the wall during one of the Dev's staff meetings. I bet some funny statments come out.
Tallon
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Nafres Maelstrom
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Posted - 2003.07.24 18:59:00 -
[27]
helmar simply limiting the number any corp can attain in any region/sector would cl;ear about 50% of office space as we know it.
we have said for nearly 2 months that an unrent button would also fix alot,either of these would and could quickly eliviate the issue.
we dont need more complextity,we need simplicity in execution.
unrent button limit corp regional/sector offices.
pretty simple and it aleviates current problems and gives time for a more masterful deployment.
i personally think the lab/factory fix was just a bandaide,on a manu/market situation that is rapidly becoming a non issue as the market for goods is crapola.
there is no such thing as a completely open market,all governments to some degree or another bolster pricing value,through various means.so pure player economy like a true market system is a myth,too volitile for extended markets.Price support of some kind is needed,and product differentiation a must.
eve has definately reached the bottom of the les affair economy structure,with complete collapse only being stalled by BP copy income.
Some simple support structures in place,some non combat bp generation means,some ultra high skill sets on manu,could in a very short time get the economy back to some even keel.
short of the above its just a 2 dimensional economy,like every other mmorg economy.i dont think that was what was intended,but its what we ended up with.
hope this all is read as a helpful critique,as it was intended.
CEO/Manufacturing and Research
img/http://www.dbhome.dk/soulclaw/images/obsidiancard.jpg/img] |
Jack Hayden
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Posted - 2003.07.24 19:22:00 -
[28]
How about tying the amount of offices a corporation can have to it's member count, and of course let us unrent unneeded offices
á
"Spelling and grammatical errors are placed solely to test your abilities as a proofreader. All prices include 25% VAT."
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Ivellios
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Posted - 2003.07.24 20:04:00 -
[29]
Unrent button would solve alot of the congestion problems as well as keeping offices based on use. I don't think limiting the number of offices a corp can hold is the answer but raising the rent for office space is. 
When at last they discover the center of the universe there will be many people who will be dissapointed that they are not it. |
Weaselsmasher
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Posted - 2003.07.24 21:42:00 -
[30]
A solution that would go a long way towards fixing things, as well as forcing difficult choices:
1. Make the rental cost of a corporation office significant, and related to the size of the corporation: monthly rent per office = 2,000 x the average number of players in the corporation over the last month (using the average prevents exploiting by having the corp expel all but one member, then everyone reapply, right before/after rents are due), minimum rent 10k. After all, larger corporations should need larger offices.
This has an additional benefit of being an Isk-sink... which the economy needs more of.
2. Put a limit on the number of stations a corporation can control: 3 per level of Corporation Management of the CEO, plus 3 per level of Megacorporation Management, plus 3 per level of Empire Control. Yes, that caps it at 45. Isn't that enough?
3. Un-rent button!
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