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Snille Blixt
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
   |
Posted - 2013.03.07 20:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi,
I just started out exploring in low sec. I have a general question about the scanning mechanics.
I sometimes find sites where I am not able to close in to 100%. For example I just found a radar site
and I can not come closer then 57% no matter how I position my probes at 0.25AU range.
I know I can increase my use better probes and skill up to get better results. My question is about the
blue scan bubbles around the probes.
Is the scanning strength linear in the bubble? one probe has 40 sensor strength is it linear from the probe itself
to the bubble border?
Does the size of the overlapping area where all 7 probes are overlapping matter? Is there anything I can do in terms
of positioning my probes to nail that 57% site or is it just impossible with my current equipment and skill setup?
What does the Base maximum deviation 0.125AU attribute mean?
Thank you.
regards
Snille |
Ovv Topik
Proposition Thirteen
The Third Rail
317
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 23:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
57% sounds very low when you sound like you know what your doing.
Assuming you are using a scanning Frig trained to level4,
and your 4 astro skills are trained to 3 at least,
and you rigged the ship for scanning,
I'd guess it is mostly about your probe pattern as you think it is.
Are you using 5 probes?
The best way to explain the correct dispersion of the probes is simply to direct you to the many scanning vids on youtube.
And practice practice practice!
Innominate Nightmare, :"Your Mother is an exotic dancer, and your Sister works in a Quafe factory!GÇ¥ |
Orlacc
295
|
Posted - 2013.03.07 23:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Make sure your filters are properly set. |
Tolrok Qorte
15 Minute Outliers
Novus Dominatum
9
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 00:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sounds like you just don't have high enough skills. First I would make sure you have Astrometrics trained to at least IV. That will give you seven probes to work with, and strength improves with every one used. That alone will not get you every site though(some are harder to scan down than others). You'll also want Astrometric Rangefinding to level IV. This increases the overall scan strength by 10% per level. The other astrometric skills make scanning faster/easier, but with some experience you can scan down sites very quickly using these two skills only. In the meantime, a cov ops/scanning frigate with rigs on it may help you with that last bit you need for some sites. |
Oraac Ensor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
169
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 00:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ovv Topik wrote:Are you using 5 probes?
Tolrok Qorte wrote:First I would make sure you have Astrometrics trained to at least IV. That will give you seven probes to work with, and strength improves with every one used.
Er, guys . . . Snille Blixt wrote:Does the size of the overlapping area where all 7 probes are overlapping matter? |
Tolrok Qorte
15 Minute Outliers
Novus Dominatum
9
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 00:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:Ovv Topik wrote:Are you using 5 probes? Tolrok Qorte wrote:First I would make sure you have Astrometrics trained to at least IV. That will give you seven probes to work with, and strength improves with every one used. Er, guys . . . Snille Blixt wrote:Does the size of the overlapping area where all 7 probes are overlapping matter?
Huh, good point. It's just going to be the Rangefinding skill then it looks like, it's amazing how much of a difference that can make.
Also yes, you want them close to the site, but not right on top of each other as that will confuse it. Many times I've been able to narrow down from ~95% simply by scooting them closer together. |
Bloemkoolsaus
Viperfleet Inc.
Transmission Lost
63
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 09:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Snille Blixt wrote:Hi,
Does the size of the overlapping area where all 7 probes are overlapping matter? Is there anything I can do in terms
of positioning my probes to nail that 57% site or is it just impossible with my current equipment and skill setup?
I found that if you have all the probes really close together they get confused. With 7 probes, put one right at the center of the signature, and spread the other 6 around it, having them see the sig at the edge of their range. That way, all the probes can see the sig, and because the probes are far apart they have an easy time triangulation the position of the signature.
|
Snille Blixt
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 15:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Let me clarify...
I use 7 Core Probes. an Imicus (Frig lvl 5), 2 10% rigs. Got Pinpointing 3, currently training rangefinding.
Mostly it works fine. In highsec no trouble at all. In Low Sec some sites I am only able to scan down to 60% then I have all probes at 0.25 range and no matter how I move them around the yellow marker the every scan just pops the marker around a bit lets say 58% to 62%.
From what I have read the deviation is the maximum distance the signal will show up from the actual location at a given signal strength. So when I hit the wall I can assume the real location (100%) is somewhere in a bubble of X diameter.
I tried moving my formation a bit in one direction to see if the signal strength goes up or down to find out in what direction the signal source may be in the imaginary deviation bubble but to me it looked like every scan just gave me a new randon spot close to the site. And that is my question, is there a strategy for triangulating or narrowing in on the target when you cant lower the scan range any further and every probe move seems to give a random result.
With proper skills and equipment you probably dont have to deal with problems like this. I'm just wondering if I hit a physical impossible wall or some mouse movement skills would make it possible somehow for my current weak setup.
|
Snille Blixt
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 15:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
Orlacc wrote:Make sure your filters are properly set.
What do you mean? the scan result filters? I use "show all" and either you see a result or not right? or am I missing some other filter? |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
1877
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 16:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Google:
Youtube probing EvE
You'll find many tutorials.... take 15 minutes and watch 3 or four of them.... then try again, and tell us what difficulties you are having.. |
Ovv Topik
Proposition Thirteen
The Third Rail
317
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 18:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Snille Blixt wrote:Let me clarify...
With proper skills and equipment you probably dont have to deal with problems like this. I'm just wondering if I hit a physical impossible wall or some mouse movement skills would make it possible somehow for my current weak setup.
This is the part that doesnt add up to me.
My scanning skills are far from 1337, and the only place I've ever been unable to get to 100% is nul.
And I can tell you getting stuck at 99.2 is well annoying!
I've never found a sig I couldnt lock down in low.
Let us know if you find out what the issue was yourself... you sound pretty competent.
Innominate Nightmare, :"Your Mother is an exotic dancer, and your Sister works in a Quafe factory!GÇ¥ |
J'Poll
The Fiction Factory
Tribal Band
1948
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 18:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
Oraac Ensor wrote:Ovv Topik wrote:Are you using 5 probes? Tolrok Qorte wrote:First I would make sure you have Astrometrics trained to at least IV. That will give you seven probes to work with, and strength improves with every one used. Er, guys . . . Snille Blixt wrote:Does the size of the overlapping area where all 7 probes are overlapping matter?
Probe strength is equal in their entire spherical range.
That range is just the distance the probe will look for signals.
The overlap does matter. Each probe pings a signature and says it's "x" km from it, the bigger the general overlap the bigger the chance that there are multiple spots that meet the criteria of all the probes responses. Too small though will mean you might miss the signature in your overlap.
I do suggest to look up the probing guide on youtube. Even though slightly outdated (made before you could shift/alt rearrange your probes) the scanning method is still ghe same. |
Cascade Vandiliere
Desertus Caterva
The Interstellar Trade n Terror Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 21:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
I also recently started exploring and found some of the same issues, especially with the rare grav sites in high and low sec.
I had one that was an average Hemo site in High sec that I couldn't get past 67%. A corp mate showed up and got it but he said it was a "hard" site as he had to go to .25 AU on the probes (which he usually never does) and he is maxed up on skills.
He recommended that I train more (as monetioned above) and get sister probes to help.
Some are just harder to get locked....and can't be until you have the numbers. |
Snille Blixt
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 11:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Google:
Youtube probing EvE
You'll find many tutorials.... take 15 minutes and watch 3 or four of them.... then try again, and tell us what difficulties you are having..
you should try to read the questions. I know the basics of exploration and I have read/watched many guides. but most are just the basic vanilla positioning guides. I am past that stage. thanks. |
Snille Blixt
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 11:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
thanks for all the comments. I have now trained rangefinding to 3 too, and now I havent found any sites in my low sec systems anymore where I hit the wall.
So I conclude there might be some physical impossible sites with given skills and equipment where the only solutions is to get better skills and equipment. unless some luck based thing kicks in. |
Snille Blixt
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 11:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:
Probe strength is equal in their entire spherical range.
That range is just the distance the probe will look for signals.
The overlap does matter. Each probe pings a signature and says it's "x" km from it, the bigger the general overlap the bigger the chance that there are multiple spots that meet the criteria of all the probes responses. Too small though will mean you might miss the signature in your overlap.
The answer I was looking for. Thanks. |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
765
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 12:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Snille Blixt wrote:J'Poll wrote:
Probe strength is equal in their entire spherical range.
That range is just the distance the probe will look for signals.
The overlap does matter. Each probe pings a signature and says it's "x" km from it, the bigger the general overlap the bigger the chance that there are multiple spots that meet the criteria of all the probes responses. Too small though will mean you might miss the signature in your overlap.
The answer I was looking for. Thanks.
Actually, that's not correct. The further away from the centre of the sphere of the probe the lower its strength is and it can even make quite a bit of difference. Lets say at best you can get to some 75% strength with your normal probing setup you CAN get it to 100% simply by moving in the probes as much as you can, hugging the location you found. It's also one of reasons I disagree with the official youtube tutorial as it uses the probes near their edge, the other reason being the lack of overlap.
And it's the exact reason why the DSP trick using that website only really works with DSP and not normal probes at least not nearly as well. DSP max range is 256AU and is generally so big in relation to the distance from sites it's almost an exact science.
Amat victoria curam. Excellence in everything.
Some guides that may be useful to you: http://www.youtube.com/user/OrdoArdish |
Snille Blixt
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 02:52:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vilnius Zar wrote:Snille Blixt wrote:J'Poll wrote:
Probe strength is equal in their entire spherical range.
That range is just the distance the probe will look for signals.
The overlap does matter. Each probe pings a signature and says it's "x" km from it, the bigger the general overlap the bigger the chance that there are multiple spots that meet the criteria of all the probes responses. Too small though will mean you might miss the signature in your overlap.
The answer I was looking for. Thanks. Actually, that's not correct. The further away from the centre of the sphere of the probe the lower its strength is and it can even make quite a bit of difference. Lets say at best you can get to some 75% strength with your normal probing setup you CAN get it to 100% simply by moving in the probes as much as you can, hugging the location you found. It's also one of reasons I disagree with the official youtube tutorial as it uses the probes near their edge, the other reason being the lack of overlap. And it's the exact reason why the DSP trick using that website only really works with DSP and not normal probes at least not nearly as well. DSP max range is 256AU and is generally so big in relation to the distance from sites it's almost an exact science. - edit - Made a video on it. I uploaded it again as it had some issues.
great effort, so it is range dependent. thanks a lot. |
Davith en Divalone
Plate of Beans Incorporated
90
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 05:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
It doesn't seem to be linear though. There seems to be a sweet spot (or sweet sphere) of maximum strength almost but not quite at the center of the sphere. I've also locked in "almost but not quite" signals by nudging the entire formation a bit. |
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
315
|
Posted - 2013.03.10 09:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
You want your probes to be close in to the site, and all looking at the site from different directions. You do in fact get better signal if your probes are closer in, and better accuracy if your probes are all roughly equidistant to the site (the actual location of the site, which may or may not deviate significantly from what you're seeing depending on your skills).
There's a balance between getting close in enough to get a signal and getting so close in that the site is actually now outside of your configuration and your accuracy is screwed again.
Either way, more skills will always help and never hurt, so if you're doing a lot of scanning you might as well train 'em up. Lower deviation especially is nice.
(Entertainingly, scanning is significantly _more_ difficult than real-life quadrangulation in space. Go figure. Admittedly slower, since in eve you're sending signals significantly faster than light, but still.) |
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