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Varsuuk
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Posted - 2003.07.22 21:54:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Varsuuk on 08/08/2003 05:21:27
More were in General Discussion and Patch review but those pages move faster and I am not looking for the next hour for them.
Obviously no one from CCP glances at Missions except the vacationing Papa Smurf.
This bug needs to be made into a NEWS ITEM. Sure many who read this know they will lose faction but not all your playerbase posts. Please CORRECT your last statement on this bug of a few patches back saying it is fixed. It is NOT ;)
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=21274
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=19737
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=20424
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=18017
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=19786
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Knaar
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Posted - 2003.07.22 22:09:00 -
[2]
Don't assume you are the only one in the world with an opinion. CCP probably will never look at your flaming garbage worth of a post, and will probably consider your opinion a total waste of their time.
Why don't you calm down and sober up before you post. Then post something CREATIVE and CONSTRUCTIVE instead of lighting a flaming bag of dog poo and rining CCP's doorbell.
Knaar
Director of Trade and Production
Hosokawa Incorporated |
BSOD
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Posted - 2003.07.22 22:19:00 -
[3]
He's tried that. Didn't get very far.
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Blue Screen of Death
CEO
Exodus Enterprises |
OldNeb
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Posted - 2003.07.22 22:38:00 -
[4]
I am posting the follwing on behalf of Redundancy - a BugHunter Team lead.
After some quick testing on chaos, I have been unable to reproduce a loss of faction rating using an amarr agent on either of my amarr faction ratings (2.39 before and after) nor the corporation rating (2.89 before and after) for a level 1 agent, which should have a faction cap of 2.
If this is still a problem, could we please get screenshots of before and after and a log of it.
Many thanks,
Redundancy
Nebulai
Lead Events Producer
The Aurora Project
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Pann
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Posted - 2003.07.23 00:46:00 -
[5]
Another update from Redundancy who is experiencing technical difficulties which are preventing him from being able to post today:
 Quote:
I actually managed to run down the bug later on, after a number of problems trying to find a way around a complete lack of ability to manipulate faction standings. I'll pass it on and pester the developers about it, but a good log would have helped immensely earlier on. Things like agents are very difficult to follow up, because we dont have a way to set up testing conditions for them.
Anyone who encountered the problem on Live would very likely have been able to duplicate it on the copy on Chaos very easily, to get a log, screenshots and all the things that would help get it through the bug filtering system incredibly quickly. They can now count the problem as known. and I'll try and get the patch notes altered to display the problem... but I can't condone posts like that.
The devs have very specifically asked me to moderate the forum to keep the information level as high as possible. Getting angry doesn't help get a problem fixed and, in all likelihood, 5 minutes reproducing this for a good bug report has taken me an hour or so to work around. I don't mind spending that time, but it really does work a lot more quickly if they help us.
Eve Community Manager
[email protected]
CCP |
Varsuuk
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Posted - 2003.07.23 00:49:00 -
[6]
Ugh ;) lost my (long) reply.
Suffice to say for 3 patches I have posted simply asking for the posting on News about this bug killing factions, so ppl won't lose em (I was lucky to have read the player site)
Many still say this happens. I do not know - ou imply it doesn't other players it does.
Seeing that there is a patch tomorrow - I don't see the value of my trying it if it ISN'T working and IS working tomorrow ;) I am not interested in NYAH NYAHing - just getting the truth of its existance.
Therefore, please respond when able telling me should I take a screenie as accepting mission button up and of my accepted mission, then after performing it a pic of factions before telling agent I am done and one afterwards.
If I am guaranteed by GMs that this is enuf to prove that I had X faction if it was lost, and that they will fix it back - would (as I say in every convo and email) be HAPPPPPPY to try this out.
I will also post the results to tell ppl it works (I think I would be believed on the agent board as I post regularly) or :( that it does not.
Tell me I will not be your bug hunter at MY expense and I will gladly help.
I was in the top bug reporter list in beta and I was only in for like a week or 2 past last phase starting. I filed bug reports (pre form as well) cheerfully in release until you guys decided not to have in game customer service. Then I felt like returning the interest level.
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Hippey
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Posted - 2003.07.23 01:29:00 -
[7]
Pann likes it big 
-------------------------------------------
If you kill them, they will die!
Sport the war, war support
The sport is war, total war
When victory's really a massacre.
The final swing is not a drill
It's how many people I can kill! |
Varsuuk
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Posted - 2003.07.23 06:12:00 -
[8]
Cool news - I posted before that post by Pann but must have not hit post until after.
Like I said...in convos with GMs and in post over the weeks:
I WANT to test it - but I already learned that CCP does not want to fix a faction error in past. Therefore it is not my JOB to help you if you will not reward my giving you pics and logserver data by fixing the damage I receive in the testing process (ie: faction capping)
If any of the GMs had said what proof you'd need and that you wuld correct it - I would have made this my debugging task from the get go.
I am a C++/Java dev and I understand the NEED for users to help track the variables involved in reproducing bugs.
However, I posted and posted NICELY asking on behalf of OTHERS who did not know of this bug that CCP post a warning, not even demanding a fix - I understand it takes time.
It seems that it was ignored and all the posts on Missions were ignored as well. A simple, no or yes the bug exists or at least a "we are looking into this and will tell you when it is safe" would suffice.
It is not a matter of your SKILL at code, it is one of communication. I believe at least that I helped spread the word and prevent ppl from being screwed. Could this have been better done by CCP? Yes.
It really is demoralizing to me to have to get this vehement to get an acknowledgement or even a "you are crazy - it works" would have been great. It took over a week for the news item of "corrupt agents" and then it was followed by a patch note introducing new content for agents (YAY!) and a decalration of the faction thing being fixed. Then ppl posted on Missions it wasn't fixed for them. Again no response till now, after my having to act like a <donkey> just like prior to that News item before the 'fix' patch.
I want to help and all I ask for is integrity in not punishing the person FOR helping you. I understand that 90% of the time fixing a bug is finding the trigger for a bug. But warning is all you need to give to make people feel secure. Then we can wait till it is done. You don't see us *****ing about things Papa (a GREAT GREAT GREAT disseminator of info for you guys) said would be going in or for more content. Why? because we were told about the plan or we were told we would have to wait till August at minimum. I was prepared to wait for Papa for this fix if someone took the time to tell me that the bug WAS in and that it would have to wait.
Peace and love dudes...
Vars
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Varsuuk
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Posted - 2003.07.23 06:17:00 -
[9]
P.S.
Now that there has been a response verifying that they are still having the problem - the title no longer applies. If a moderator can change it to simply "Agent Bug still exists" - I can modify my posts as well.
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Greeble
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Posted - 2003.07.23 08:31:00 -
[10]
It's not possible to edit thread titles in this forum.
- Greeble
Polaris BugHunter |
Quasel
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Posted - 2003.07.23 11:24:00 -
[11]
hmm run your test on Chaos ;) thenthere is no need for fixing ... but yes its awesome that if it happens by accident you dont get fixed.
- - -
like a little ant :D |
colla tidet
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Posted - 2003.07.24 01:59:00 -
[12]
so if u did not have a screen shot of your faction/corp standings before u lost them,me being one of the first to get hit by this, then u r out of luck?
"Let us have faith that right makes right, and in that faith let us to the end dare to do our duty as we understand it."
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Xelios
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Posted - 2003.07.24 02:30:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Xelios on 24/07/2003 02:33:34
I just started working with agents 3 days ago. After a few training missions I got my first lvl 1 agent who is pictured in the screenshot. After about 15 missions for him I had suddenly dropped from a 10.0 faction standing with Concord and Gallente (and a less than 10.0 standing with Minmatar) to 2.0. I think I can pin it down to one of the kill missions the agent gave me, but that's just a guess based on when it happened and the missions I was doing at the time. Here's 2 screenshots of my standings now, Gallente is now slightly higher because I've been killing pirates in Gallente space earlier today.
http://www.geocities.com/swrwookie/standings.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/swrwookie/factioncap.jpg
Of course I don't have a screenshot of my standings before it happened, because I was expecting it to be fixed, but as you can see with an 8.2 security rating and a very low rating with the pirate corps I had been doing a lot of pirate hunting which should (and did) give me a high standing with both Gallente and Concord.
As for logs... I wasn't aware you could make logs of things like faction standings?
Well next time I'll read Pann's post first =P Good to know it's now a known bug. Any chance for me and others to get back the faction standings that were lost as a result of this?
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Nafres Maelstrom
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Posted - 2003.07.24 02:35:00 -
[14]
pretty much yes,i started doin agent missions just before they figured it was broke ,then i noticed all my ratings goin to freekin hell.
repairing the faction/corp standing is a must id have top repeat over 200 missions to get back my rating.......lol that will never happen.
many of us have done countless missions testing agents and there various incarnations ad nausium.
we have no wish to do this all over again because a bug was present,announced fixed then not.
agent missions are time consuming and generally piontless with trade skills,and real reward not input.now we lose even the faction/corp ratings as well.
missions are eve's redheaded stepchild at best,when in fact they could be it shining improvement,as a deliverer of spec toys,bp introduction,diverse items,skills.
cant wait for papas return he at least keeps us informed.
CEO/Manufacturing and Research
img/http://www.dbhome.dk/soulclaw/images/obsidiancard.jpg/img] |
colla tidet
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Posted - 2003.07.24 03:06:00 -
[15]
Edited by: colla tidet on 24/07/2003 03:07:50
<===is the one that first found it was broke
and all people kept saying was u have done something naughty. lmao. and after that people started doing them and then found out.
"Let us have faith that right makes right, and in that faith let us to the end dare to do our duty as we understand it."
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Varsuuk
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Posted - 2003.07.24 03:10:00 -
[16]
Actually, they were admittedly low priority at start. To the point that it was mentioned that some had a wish to not include it on release because they didn't feel it was 'full.'
However, as it was released, it did 'work' just not to its potential and there certainly was no harm in releasing it as such. In fact, imo, it whetted my appetite for them.
Even this bug is one (as far as I can tell) that hurts only those that DO missions. The reports of STANDARD sec rating getting affected are not really firm and even those saying it happened, it seemed to be only for concord agents. But, having done MANY of the tedious (for now) missions, several hundred in fact, I know what it would feel like to ME if I lost the work I spent time trying to get a jump on before they were 'useful'
Alot of what we have HEARD, much less what they won't commit to in writing for fear of pitchforks - is great and will be exciting to see.
Admittedly there is/was little amount of resources assigned to them - but rest assured from what I have seen in player communication and attitude and changes, Papa Smurf is the man. We are lucky that he is on it. I posted long ago when he said candidly that HE gave up on agents (playing and doing missions I mean) prior to his vacation - I took that as a good sign.
Why? because it meant he was 'in touch' with us and how thegame is played and not looking at agents on paper. He was not satisfied. We were not satisfied. But - because he is not saying "working as intended" or "really they rock!" we can expect them to be tweaked (and throttled) until they DO rock :)
Hopefully alot of stuff down the pike in August for us :)
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Zrakor
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Posted - 2003.08.07 15:35:00 -
[17]
We acknowledge that the standing bug was not completely fixed when it said so in the patch notes. There were still some cases which dropped your standing due to the bug which simply got by us. This should be fixed in the latest patch which is on our test server now.
Basically the bug which was fixed a long time ago was if you gained standing via your agent, and you had more standing than the agent was allowed to give you, then your standing lowered to the agents cap.
However the bug which got by that patch was that if your standing lowered for that faction (for example if you do a pirate mission which lowers your concord standing) from a certain amount, then the standing was reduced to the cap of the agent.
Here's a post from Papa Smurf explaining it in further detail:
If your standing was being reduced, and your standing was below the min acceptable standing for that agent to cause prior to the reduction, then you were safe.
If your standing was being raised, and your standing was above the max acceptable standing for that agent to cause prior to the raise, then you were safe.
If you were within the min/max zone both prior and after the standing modification, then you were safe.
If you were however out of bounds after the reduction/raise you were screwed. Same applies if you had too high standing when standing was being reduced, or too low standing when standing was being increased.
F.ex. for a 1st level agent (safe area is -2..2)
Bad:
Your standing: 8. If you lose 1 point of standing, you end up with 2.
Your standing: -8. If you gain 1 point of standing, you end up with -2.
Good:
Your standing: 8. If you gain 1 point of standing, you end up with 8
Your standing: -8. If you lose 1 point of standing, you end up with -8
Your standing: 1.9. If you gain 1 point of standing, you end up with 2.
Your standing: 1.9. If you lose 1 point of standing, you end up with 0.9.
Your standing: -1.9. If you lose 1 point of standing, you end up with -2.
Your standing: -1.9. If you gain 1 point of standing, you end up with -0.9.
Sadly, there is no audit trail yet for standings, so the GM's would have a hard time confirming whether standing loss had occurred or not and thus I doubt that the problem can be corrected for users after the fact.
After the current fix, what should happen in the two "Bad" cases is:
Your standing: 8. If you lose 1 point of standing, you end up with 7.
Your standing: -8. If you gain 1 point of standing, you end up with -7.
In the future, I'd expect to change the "point of standing" concept a bit, so the gain/loss there won't be as dramatic.
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Endureth
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Posted - 2003.08.07 18:00:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Endureth on 07/08/2003 18:12:09
What is with all this OOC stuff in the Intergalactic Summit?
-E
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Mandos
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Posted - 2003.08.07 18:53:00 -
[19]
Title changing works now, so I renamed this.
Moved from Intergalactic Summit.
-- Mandos
Polaris Forum Moderator and Bug Hunter
EVE Forum rules |
Cal3NVB4X
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Posted - 2003.08.09 04:36:00 -
[20]
So the bug is fixed or being worked on, but will CCP restore the faction of everyone affected by this bug? I had Caldari State 8.something, and I would really like it back, please.
I would really like an answer to the question, please. Will you restore the lost faction? |
Cochise
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Posted - 2003.08.09 12:59:00 -
[21]
I also lost all my lvl 3 Agents Standing(Caldari Navy) I did get to speak with a GM in game about it but he didnt do anything to correct my Standing.
I declined the 8th mission I was offered and my faction went from 8 something to 0.6 I did another 8th mission completed it and took the 9th It was called "Stop Thief" The mission Information was incomplete it didnt give a location or a name for me to search. I tried everything including buying the data sheets, it didnt work now my standing is 0.0 and I recieved a threat from him. I closed the Petition out of frustration because all I got was arguement.
The GM said he couldnt see any proof of this either in my Players info or in the Forums.
Oh well!
No big deal well just ad it to the long list of things like loosing Cruisers to bugs and loosing millions due to the factory bugs and the 7 friends who quit due to the bugs, ect. ect. ect.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.08.09 16:08:00 -
[22]
Edited by: j0sephine on 09/08/2003 16:09:08
"It was called "Stop Thief" The mission Information was incomplete it didnt give a location or a name for me to search."
... Doesn't this mission add a custom bookmark to your People & Places window, so you can jump/warp to the place where the 'thief' is?..
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Drutort
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Posted - 2003.08.09 22:42:00 -
[23]
no i had some missions that didnt give me the system were to go look for, it was funny
i ask the gm to help me and he then was able to search or he knew were it was at and told me, it saved my mission as i had no clue were to go, just 1 key word was missing LOL
i had missions not drop data's vips etc... it sucks 
i cant wait until they are fixed so i can do agents again, cause i have stoped in this patch becauese of the new bug that would not refresh a new mission for you if you didnt accept and finish one, you would be stuck with that old mission and it was expired and if you accepted it you would get auto failed...
so i quit doing agent missions until they are fixed.
support Idea: QuickInfo an alternative to ShowInfo
my MoBlog |
Zrakor
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Posted - 2003.08.12 11:19:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Zrakor on 12/08/2003 11:30:43
As I stated earlier, this should all be fixed in the latest version of the game on our test server, so the next big patch will have these fixes.
Unfortunately the faction gain / loss is not adequately logged, and the GMs cannot restore your faction if they have no way of knowing if you are telling the truth or not. It simply is against procedure to do that. We are also working on fixing this.
And:
"... Doesn't this mission add a custom bookmark to your People & Places window, so you can jump/warp to the place where the 'thief' is?.."
Yes, all NPC kill missions give you a bookmark when you accept it. The agent doesn't always tell you where to go in the briefing itself (this is not a bug), but you will always see the solarsystem on the bookmark he gives you.
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Mitchman
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Posted - 2003.08.12 13:30:00 -
[25]
I have a 10.0 standing against Concord and Caldari State on Chaos, but less than 2.0 on TQ due to this bug. I still have my 10.0 security rating, so shouldn't that be enough to get back my lost fraction standings?
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Cal3NVB4X
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Posted - 2003.08.12 17:30:00 -
[26]
You'd think, however, there are two problems:
1. They can't verify anything, and for all they know, you could go on a crazy convoy rampage and keep your Sec Status of 10 but you'd lose your faction of 10. And why should you get phat convoy lewtz AND a spotless faction, too?
2. If they restore your faction, I'd want them to restore MY faction too. I only have 1.3 SEC, and only had 8 Caldari State, but nevermind that, I can scream FAVORITISM etc, and agitate myself on the boards till my hands hurt from typing. I'm sure others have lost faction to this bug, too, so my plight should resonate.
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Hydroxide
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Posted - 2003.08.12 20:07:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Hydroxide on 12/08/2003 20:08:21
try having negative faction standing for allmost every corp inthe game cuz youstarted back in the first month when nothing was working right and things still arn't fixed so you can't get new agents period even if you wanted to.
I guess bascily you could say after this last round of screw ups if this patch isn't super awsome mack daddy jones bring everyone up to date and revive the game kind of patch and it better be soon. There gonna be kissing alot of customers goodbye.
Free stuff for TTI free stuff for stained who's next?
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colla tidet
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Posted - 2003.08.12 23:45:00 -
[28]
"Let us have faith that right makes right, and in that faith let us to the end dare to do our duty as we understand it."
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BSOD
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Posted - 2003.08.13 14:48:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Edited by: Hydroxide on 12/08/2003 20:08:21
try having negative faction standing for allmost every corp inthe game cuz youstarted back in the first month when nothing was working right and things still arn't fixed so you can't get new agents period even if you wanted to.
Bug with getting new agents is (hopefully) fixed in this patch. Didn't seem to make patch notes but Papa mentioned a bugfix that he believes will solve the problem. (Glad to see some honesty from a dev - Papa stated that he thinks the fix will solve the problems people have been happening but is not sure without more testing by players.)
As to having negative standing with most every corp - Of course there are going to be consequences for going around hunting convoys at random. And if you indeed did all this damage to your standings in the first month, those standings have cleared by now unless you were REALLY stupid. i.e. you would've had to have hit -10 in order for those standings not to have cleared by now. Remember, negative standings go up by .1 per day.
----------------
Blue Screen of Death
CEO
Exodus Enterprises |
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