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Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2011.10.14 06:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Personally, I can see them moving them to have only very slightly shorter range than AC's, but with a much larger percentage of their range being optimal. Since more of their damage is optimal, they'd project damage better than AC's, but are still technically shorter on range, and still maybe not track as well, or at most on par. From there, adjust fitting requirements, or the cpu/PG of hybrid ships, and see how it plays out. More balance changes to come afterwards of course, after the impact of the initial changes is seen.
What would your initial toe-in-the-water balance changes be? |

Herman Klaus
Touched By Klaus
1
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
Someone suggested making Minny less agile but keeping their high speed and making blaster boats more agile (quicker) and buffing blaster tracking. I liked this.
TBH though this topic has been done to death a few posts below. |

Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2011.10.14 08:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Changing minmatar that much just to balance blasters would throw quite a few other things out of whack, wouldn't it? I doubt we'll see such a large change, or at least not at first.
Also I seem to have missed the other thread.... |

Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2011.10.14 10:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Things blaster needs to be changed so it works properly and without ship changes?
Massive tracking bonus on weapons: the shortest range weapon can't simply track properly in it's op range while having less issues in the fall off, you must admit this is kinda "stupid"
The shortest weapon system at BS size with 4km optimal range can't track an elephant under 1500M and the slightest lateral movement makes you loose a lot of the "EFT dps", another ridiculous point.
Imho the best thing to do about blasters is increase their optimal up to 13km at large size and 0km fall off, increase dmg modifier to make it spit nuclear warheads and that ******* weapon system should never have a single issue tracking in his full optimal from 0 to the 13km.
Ammo changes are needed, the single change about % kin or thermal for the same range/dmg type isn't enough, a third dmg type would be the most welcome even at a very small %. T2 ammo needs serious revamp and get rid of the tracking penalty, hell you need a lot of training to use the worst ammo out there when faction one will overall be more effective, this is completely silly.
Fitting PG requirements lowered and cap use but maybe increase it significantly when overloaded if dmg modifier increased to nuclear warheads level.
Before touching the ships this would be a nice start, then go for the ships themselves and after that see if weapons still need something + or removal so they don't become tomorrow the omgfckingpowmobiles |

steave435
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
15
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Posted - 2011.10.14 11:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP boosting something and it ending up balanced? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL |

Solomar Espersei
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
84
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Posted - 2011.10.14 12:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
I think the "can't choose your damage type" argument is overblown, just as it is with lazers. Both could be viewed as damage type=loads of DPS. One type of gun (blasters) pummels armor, the other pummels shields. I think that works fine and doesn't need to be tweaked in any way.
Range is the problem and it gets worse as you scale up. An argument could be made that blasters are working just fine on the frigates which are bonused for them. It's the cruiser hull and above where the train runs off the track. Simply change the range on blasters to be slightly less than the effective range of ACs and that should do it.
Rails OTOH simply need to do more DPS. I don't think it would be that big of a deal if they were nearly identical to Beams tbh. Recruiting is ON HOLD Please join our public channel The Ninja Dojo for more info |

Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
81
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Posted - 2011.10.14 13:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:Things blaster needs to be changed so it works properly and without ship changes?
Massive tracking bonus on weapons: the shortest range weapon can't simply track properly in it's op range while having less issues in the fall off, you must admit this is kinda "stupid"
The shortest weapon system at BS size with 4km optimal range can't track an elephant under 1500M and the slightest lateral movement makes you loose a lot of the "EFT dps", another ridiculous point.
Imho the best thing to do about blasters is increase their optimal up to 13km at large size and 0km fall off, increase dmg modifier to make it spit nuclear warheads and that ******* weapon system should never have a single issue tracking in his full optimal from 0 to the 13km.
Ammo changes are needed, the single change about % kin or thermal for the same range/dmg type isn't enough, a third dmg type would be the most welcome even at a very small %. T2 ammo needs serious revamp and get rid of the tracking penalty, hell you need a lot of training to use the worst ammo out there when faction one will overall be more effective, this is completely silly.
Fitting PG requirements lowered and cap use but maybe increase it significantly when overloaded if dmg modifier increased to nuclear warheads level.
Before touching the ships this would be a nice start, then go for the ships themselves and after that see if weapons still need something + or removal so they don't become tomorrow the omgfckingpowmobiles I like your ideas. wouldn't mind cutting the range further if damage boosted tho. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |

Skarned
Inroads
0
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Posted - 2011.10.14 13:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'd like to see Blaster range remain unchanged - it would be a mistake to change the attribute that makes blasters unique. They should, however, be compensated for it with much greater effective damage. A little bit less mass or more agility on their ships wouldn't hurt either, but they don't need much. |

Alec Freeman
The Dark Space Initiative Revival Of The Talocan Empire
25
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Posted - 2011.10.14 13:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Its CCP. They know nothing of a gentle touch.
Blasters will be given 100km range, do 500 dps per large gun and will be able to track frigates at under 1km. and then everyone will cry until other guns are brought in line with them. |

TriadSte
3rd Division
14
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Posted - 2011.10.14 15:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Blasters need better tracking with a boost to range also. I believe that the Gallente race is a race which can be kited easily [ship depending] so I also believe that the Gallente ships needs some form of speed/agility buff too.
Gallente have always been the 4th best race in applying DPS effectively, Im very happy this is about to change. |
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mama guru
Thundercats
6
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Posted - 2011.10.14 16:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
The most needed gallente changes have always been something along these lines:
1) Ship agility improvement and mass reduction (applies to cruiser and above)
2) Improved blaster tracking
3) Lower fitting requirements on hybrids was implemented before and might be needed again.
I also think that Gallente blaster boats should have one or two of theirutility highslots removed in favour of more midslots. That would kind of fit their niche a bit more and make them more appealing to active tanking and ECCM which is what Gallente has always been best at. Utility highs and overall slot flexability is a minmatar thing imo, it fits the Hurricane perfectly for example. But not the Deimos or Megathron. ______
EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's to hard you are to weak. |

MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
35
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Posted - 2011.10.14 16:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
ok this is ghey i cant link a thread cuss its html...
please see a thread called gallente love in features and ideas discussion for hybrid boost discussion |

JackStraw56
Bayesian Motion Knights of Tomorrow
12
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Posted - 2011.10.14 16:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
I'd like to see blasters stay the shortest range weapon, but the range should be given some increase.
The tracking also needs to be the highest of all guns since they are meant to operate at the closest range. It doesn't make sense for autocannons to have longer range and similar tracking.
The damage is already good on blasters, a very slight boost may be ok, but I'd rather see the range and tracking bumped up first. |

Neo Rainhart
Guerilla Republik Excuses.
0
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Posted - 2011.10.14 17:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
No I don't think super soakers should be boosted. Just start selling them with different nozzles oh wai... |

Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
34
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Posted - 2011.10.14 19:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
Solomar Espersei wrote:I think the "can't choose your damage type" argument is overblown, just as it is with lazers. Both could be viewed as damage type=loads of DPS. One type of gun (blasters) pummels armor, the other pummels shields. I think that works fine and doesn't need to be tweaked in any way..
Glad to know I'm not the only one who feels this way.
PvE is easy enough that even if you're blitzing with a max skilled dedicated ship, you really aren't gaining much time.
PvP everyone buffer tanks anyway, and you will rarely encounter a resist hole big enough to actually exploit. And even if they do, how would you know? |

Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2011.10.14 19:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dorian Wylde wrote:Solomar Espersei wrote:I think the "can't choose your damage type" argument is overblown, just as it is with lazers. Both could be viewed as damage type=loads of DPS. One type of gun (blasters) pummels armor, the other pummels shields. I think that works fine and doesn't need to be tweaked in any way.. Glad to know I'm not the only one who feels this way. PvE is easy enough that even if you're blitzing with a max skilled dedicated ship, you really aren't gaining much time. PvP everyone buffer tanks anyway, and you will rarely encounter a resist hole big enough to actually exploit. And even if they do, how would you know?
True this, and if you do find a significant hole it's going to be either EM or EXP...both of which can also easily be the highest. I'd take Kin/Therm over most of the other types any day. It does kind a suck when firing that at a t2 ship with kin/therm resist bonuses though.... |

Goose99
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
54
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Posted - 2011.10.14 21:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
Fronkfurter McSheebleton wrote:Dorian Wylde wrote:Solomar Espersei wrote:I think the "can't choose your damage type" argument is overblown, just as it is with lazers. Both could be viewed as damage type=loads of DPS. One type of gun (blasters) pummels armor, the other pummels shields. I think that works fine and doesn't need to be tweaked in any way.. Glad to know I'm not the only one who feels this way. PvE is easy enough that even if you're blitzing with a max skilled dedicated ship, you really aren't gaining much time. PvP everyone buffer tanks anyway, and you will rarely encounter a resist hole big enough to actually exploit. And even if they do, how would you know? True this, and if you do find a significant hole it's going to be either EM or EXP...both of which can also easily be the highest. I'd take Kin/Therm over most of the other types any day. It does kind a suck when firing that at a t2 ship with kin/therm resist bonuses though.... As far as the tracking goes, I'm not sure AC's should be below blasters, really. They've always seemed like a quick and nimble weapon, whereas blasters are more like a shotgun or something. Though, it'd be nice to see them upgraded to a tactical shotgun over an old SxS, if you get me. Giving some extra agility to hybrid ships would be nice, though we'll have to bear in mind what that will change when you fit them with rails, yeah? You can't look at a ship and go "oh, that's for blasters" or "oh, that's for railguns", because people will want to use both. Try to force it and you end up with the Hyperion...
Minimatar t2/3 has high EM shields resist. That said, EM/exp is definitely better than Kin/thermal. Every single ship, t1-t3, shield or armor, has decent kin/thermal resists. Add in enam/invulnerability, and it gets high. With EM/exp, it finds a resist hole at least some of the times, with kin/thermal, there won't be a hole in any competent fit. |

Fronkfurter McSheebleton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.14 22:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
Goose99 wrote:
Minimatar t2/3 has high EM shields resist. That said, EM/exp is definitely better than Kin/thermal. Every single ship, t1-t3, shield or armor, has decent kin/thermal resists. Add in enam/invulnerability, and it gets high. With EM/exp, it finds a resist hole at least some of the times, with kin/thermal, there won't be a hole in any competent fit.
EM/Exp would be nice if you could get both of them at once...though it's true that minmatar and caldari can just change ammo. But while Kin/Therm never sees the huge em holes in shields or exp holes in armor, it never sees the huge em resists in armor or exp resists in shields, either. Perhaps it comes down to preference but I like that level of consistency. |

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
8
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Posted - 2011.10.15 01:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
I have no idea how blasters are going to be balanced.
Less falloff, more optimal perhaps? That would help a little as would reducing their cap use and power grid requirements. |

Tallianna Avenkarde
Beasts of Burden
67
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 05:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
Herman Klaus wrote:Someone suggested making Minny less agile but keeping their high speed and making blaster boats more agile (quicker) and buffing blaster tracking. I liked this.
TBH though this topic has been done to death a few posts below.
I actually believe exactly the opposite.
To me Minnie are like rally cars, fast agile little killers that flitter around at kiting range. Gallente should be top fuel dragsters. Fast in a straight line, but easily danced around. And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell. |
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Smabs
Higher Than Everest BricK sQuAD.
4
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Posted - 2011.10.15 09:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
For mediums it's mostly the fitting. It'd be nice to fit neutrons and and mwd onto some of the gallente and caldari cruisers. Damage could use a slight buff.
Range is a bit different. If they buff blasters too much you'd end up seeing 1000dps neutron/tracking enhancer gank boats with 25-30km range.
Tracking would help a little bit too, although sometimes I think people just orbit 500 by default instead of using keep at range to maximise damage, then wonder why their guns can't track.
The large hybrids obviously need a damage buff if nothing else.
So I guess I'm saying that they should boost one or two aspects of blasters and see how it plays out. Here's hoping ccp doesn't go overboard and make blasters the only weapon in solo/small gang pvp.
|

Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 11:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
Smabs wrote:Range is a bit different. If they buff blasters too much you'd end up seeing 1000dps neutron/tracking enhancer gank boats with 25-30km range.
You mean the same mods making Scorch Pulse shoot over 60km at full dmg and Auto canons over 90?
Well 25/30km would still be the closest range of all close range weapons wouldn't??
|

Smabs
Higher Than Everest BricK sQuAD.
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 13:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
I mean for medium guns.
For instance a neutron diemos with 2 TE does 3+15 with cnam or 7.3+19 with null, and does ~770 or so dps. Of course the ship is kinda rubbish right now but you can see how a big boost to range, damage and fitting would start making gallente blaster boats too strong. |

Jerick Ludhowe
Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 13:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
I believe that with the addition of 25m3 more drone bay (not bandwidth) on top of a modest increases to fitting potential, ship speed/agility and turret dps (no more than 5%) many of the dedicated blaster platforms would become more than competitive. A reduction to the sig radius of some of the dedicated sub bs blaster platforms would be very welcome too. Now as to what they will actually do? No idea.
As for rail guns... I believe that fitting requirements again should and probably will be looked at. I'd hope that overall dps is increased marginally and their dmg/rof ratio is moved closer to that of artillery. |

Wacktopia
Sicarius. Legion of The Damned.
10
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Posted - 2011.10.15 15:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
Remover 50% range penalty on anti matter and adjust the rest accordingly. |

Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2011.10.15 18:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Well, i guess hybrids will become even more useless, because the "balancing" will completely miss the point. Such as giving rails even more range at the expense of damage and tracking. And blasters... i-Śm confident there is a way to make them even more crappy than now and ccp will find it.
"You either need less science fiction or more medication."
"Or less medication and more ammo!" |

raukhur
NorthMount
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 19:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
If one of the blasters problems is not being able to apply the high dps they have, maylbe the new fast webber drones may provide a solution for rebalancing gallente, e.g. Giving deimos, thorax, brutix and the likes more drone cargo so they have a set of webber drones to catkch their prey, and athen switch to dps/ecm drones
|

quigibow
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2011.10.15 21:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
they should be fixed like this |

Wylee Coyote
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
15
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 22:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
I would lower the cpu requirements for all hybrids a bit, otherwise I would not change them.
What I would change is hybrid ammo. Get rid of the capacitor need reduction and replace it with tracking bonus of at least equal (opposite) value. For example; Anti-matter charge would now be -50% range as it's always been, but it now also has +30% tracking (equal opposite of iron charges). Next would be Plutonium with it's -37.5% range but now with +27% tracking. Etc. |

Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
82
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 23:43:00 -
[30] - Quote
quigibow wrote:they should be fixed like this while those are good ideas, I'm still partial to the face-melting nuclear loaded shotgun concept, and they should have much, much more damage, bit more tracking and less range.
face-melting dps. that's what blasters should be.
and no, atm they don't do said visage deconstruction damage. they just do a bit more than the next best thing. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
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