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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Magallen
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Posted - 2003.07.23 18:22:00 -
[1]
How come we never get to see all the things written about the EVE universe with our very own eyes when weÆre actually in the universe?
Where is the NavyÆs of the Empires? We never see their ships travel, we never see them fight. We donÆt see their shipyards, we donÆt see their construction ships building new bases, we donÆt see haulers brining materials to and from the bases, and we donÆt see their fleets docking. Their inactive static meaningless entities, they donÆt add very much to the EVE world.
What about the NPC corporations? We never see them in action either. Where are their traders, miners and escorts? If Quafe needs 10000 Isogen for what ever reason then we should see some of their miners, haulers and escort go to a mining site and work. Then we see their ships head back to base. With their 10000 Isogen Quafe will now build more of the things they need to use. Their will be a new dimension of interaction, where players can influence what NPCÆs do.
What happened if a player pirate jumped that mining expedition? Quafe lost some ships, and will try to manufacture more which will mean more mining expeditions and this time they will have a heightened alert, which means Quafe will assign more escorts for the mining team. Quafe also decides that they had enough of this particular pirate who harassed them long enough. Quafe post missions of other players to take out this pirate and provides known information and location of this pirate. If this isnÆt enough Quafe will get CONCORD on its side and Quafe will also form a small hunting fleet to track down and kill this pirate. This is the kind of immersion EVE desperately needs.
Each corporation and Empire has an AI with its own goal and agendas. The AIÆs play by our rules where upon they need, minerals and ISK and have ships like players do. I know this will bring its own set of programming challenges and problems but the AI has the benefit of CCP protection shall the system fail them. Say the Caldari Navy has about 300 warships and Caldari has been under constant attack by rogue players and their fleet is losing ships quicker then they can build them. CCP wonÆt allow the Caldari Empire to be defeated so CCP will instantly inflate the Caldari navy numbers. This is so CCP has the power to protect elements of the game that players canÆt influence for the sake of game play balance and story progression.
This wonÆt add more lag either. What ever the AI does isnÆt going to affect your connection and playability. What concerns you as the client is what is going on in the system your about to jump into. How many players and active AI is in the new system and what ever needs to be loaded will be loaded when it needs to called upon which is only when you enter new systems. The AI wonÆt burden your client.
IÆm under the impressions CCP created a wading pool the size of a foot ball field but with water only 2 inches deep. We the players are the fish living in this shallow wading pool. Instead what CCP should have done was create and Olympic size swimming pool with water 10 feet deep. I think you know what im trying to get at with this analogy. 
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.23 18:32:00 -
[2]
If you want to see the navy ships fight, just shoot at them 
.
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Jayce Wildstar
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Posted - 2003.07.23 18:42:00 -
[3]
dont tell me you've never see an NPC convoy in space. They are all over the place tempting me to turn to a life of crime. 
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Chagidiel
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Posted - 2003.07.23 18:53:00 -
[4]
I see the trade convoys all the time.
I see the local cops, as well as CONCORD, and now some of them will start shooting me, should I be caught smuggling slaves.
I have seen the Galente/Caldaris "secret"(??) project, and I have resisted the erge shooting at it.
True, it could be more, then again, we are told it will be more in a month or so.
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Arathmon
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Posted - 2003.07.23 19:40:00 -
[5]
Ah, here's to another month! *raises glass of spiced wine*.
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I used to be in the FA. I like cookies. Eve Radio is teh pwn. |
Tos' Lavoch
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Posted - 2003.07.23 20:07:00 -
[6]
Has anyone here ever played a game called X-Beyond The Frontier?
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Waeron
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Posted - 2003.07.23 20:18:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Waeron on 23/07/2003 20:20:40
Edited by: Waeron on 23/07/2003 20:18:45
I played X-BTF - although I did not play it long enough to nearly scratch the surface of it, it certainly appeared to posess an immensely deep level of gameplay.
I was especially impressed by the way the economy was working in the game - entirely dynamic with npc stations sending out ships to acquire the goods they needed for construction or just running the base.
I guess this is something along the line of what many of us hope to see in Eve eventually (since they did not put it in for release  ).
The main reason I never got very far in X-BTF was because I saw the screenshots from X2 - The Threat (which is planned for a September release I think), so I decided to wait for this sequel instead.
And I am indeed looking very much forward to it.
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JAXX
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Posted - 2003.07.23 20:30:00 -
[8]
Edited by: JAXX on 23/07/2003 20:49:50
Edited by: JAXX on 23/07/2003 20:33:00
You're right, there are NPC convoys but they are static route, no corperation, and mostly junk cargo, with little or no consequence when you toast them. In fact if you blow up a collumn, the other supporting ships dissapear with out the chance to raid their cargo. Does anyone come running in defense? NO And it's more than just the lack of corp convoys or and NPC warring factions, etc.
When I bought the game a few days after launce and played the first time, I was in awe of the sheer size of the eve universe, but that has changed, because the majority of that space is un-navigatable and wasted.
Why do I get the feeling that there is nothing in between entities like stations at all; as though we warp from station to asteroid field, taking 10 seconds but you couldn't really navigate that distance, like warping is a nice graphical way to load the next area of space around the object you are warping to(yes I realize the distance is too far to navigate, but if I wanted too could I try?).
I should be able to drop out of warp at anytime and fly around if I wish(create a waypoint to hangout with corp mates that is unknown to pirates etc.); if the space was actually seemless distance. I've heard that CCP was looking into implementing this(aborting warp and navigating,fighting etc), but it's hearsay, I've never seen actual documentation about this.
Hmmm now I'm starting to sound like I'm flaming CCP and I really am just trying to bring forth some issues to look at; nothing more. I think I'm done for now and will get off my soap box, but Magallen brings up a totally valid, and important point for many of us, and it shouldn't be dismissed with a simple "I see convoys all the time"
Apparently you missed the bigger picture...
Sometimes to win, you have to fight just as mean and dirty as the other guy. Nobody will beat you challenging you to the field of honor for pistols at dawn. They have to slit your throat while you lay in bed, just like you'd do them. - Jash Illian |
Vicomt
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Posted - 2003.07.23 20:56:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Vicomt on 23/07/2003 20:56:44
Jaxx... what you fail to grasp is that there *is* no space.... Eve is one huge database of people/stations/objects existing at certain points within a non-graphical and non-spatial frame of reference.
what we see is only a graphical (albeit very pretty) representation of that database.
but I completely agree with the original poster and especially the 2 inch deep water comment. I'd love to see the NPC's actually react to things that players do... I keep hoping it'll come in over the next few months 
Vicomt
General Dogsbody - Dangerous Liasons |
JAXX
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Posted - 2003.07.23 21:10:00 -
[10]
I understand the concept fine, and there are limitations due to complexity etc. -no problem why else would we all be aligned to the same plane and oriented upright in the same direction. I just find it hard to swallow that I have to put a space station(in the very distant future) Next to a planet, moon or asteroid field. And just how far from any given object can you travel before running out of navigatable space? I was mostly trying to say that the game could stand to be a little more realistic in addition to adding more content by way of NPC interaction.
Sometimes to win, you have to fight just as mean and dirty as the other guy. Nobody will beat you challenging you to the field of honor for pistols at dawn. They have to slit your throat while you lay in bed, just like you'd do them. - Jash Illian |
Lexington Cabot
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Posted - 2003.07.23 21:19:00 -
[11]
"Jaxx... what you fail to grasp is that there *is* no space...." 
So it is not us traveling through space but rather space traveling through us?
Arrrgghhhhh make brain stop hurting!!!!!
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Padaxes
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Posted - 2003.07.23 21:36:00 -
[12]
Its not supposed to be an NPC game - its about the players. You want to see corporations mining - then - er... go and look you will find corporations mining. PC Industrial ships hauling their goods and PC players preying upon them.
There is a bit of NPC stuff there but this game was never about the NPCs its about all of us. You can find convoys, ruined stations, pirate bases, CONCORD navy batallions if you must but thats just the bare minimum.
I constantly hear people saying where is the content etc. and it drives me nuts. We have this amazing universe to explore, trade and interact with each other and 90% of the people treat it as a `database` and bemoan the fact they are bored. Any game u care to play if u reduce it to that level is boring - most games are just databases. Sure some have great story lines but they are static constructs (except in a few rare cases).
This is a MMORPG - where most of the people dont role play at all. Ive had some great encounters with Roleplaying types and I try to do a little myslef and these are by far the most rewarding aspects of the game. Look at some of the Minmatar and Ammar corps getting ready to war against each other if you want to see immmersion, try and get a little involved and play the game as its meant to be played rather than just trying to get as much money as quickly as possible.
Read up on your race history, read the Intergalactic summit. Explore. Try and develop your character a bit and you may suddenly feel a little more immersed. There are 5000 people online at anyone time - theres enough variety in that lot to find whatever u are after - whether its the thrill of trying to run a M0o blockade, hunting down traders who have strayed to far into low sec space or trying to catch people carrying slaves so you can liberate them. The possibilities are quite literally endless.
www.explore-eve.net is quite a nice place to start looking if your after some nice stuff to look at too.
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Myrmex
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Posted - 2003.07.23 21:40:00 -
[13]
yup thats true it's full of content just go look at fd-mlg there's a lot of content there.
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sutty
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Posted - 2003.07.23 22:13:00 -
[14]
I didn't buy this game for NPC i bought it for the player run side of things, this game is not advertised as a npc sort of game :D its surposed to be all player driven....
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Intruders
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Posted - 2003.07.23 22:42:00 -
[15]
"I constantly hear people saying where is the content etc. and it drives me nuts. "
Thats because you are nuts.
If you think jumping from system to system with only thing changing is the unrealistic 2d background and you still think there is a content, you should be nuts.
Another lapse of content hint:
Did they designed different stations? yes Did they put different corp. characterization for most of them?
What do they sell? Exactly the same things, if they sell any,
WHy a navy station is not selling just the bships, or a harvesting station selling the ore, and the mining equipment?
They just made a game that looks like it has content but it doesnt, and they expect us to fill it with some, while they keep making wrong decisions about how players should behave in game.
Every man lives..but not every man dies!
My sig sux |
Magallen
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Posted - 2003.07.24 01:54:00 -
[16]
 Quote:
dont tell me you've never see an NPC convoy in space. They are all over the place tempting me to turn to a life of crime.
TheyÆre very lame. They have no meaning and purpose other then to serve as pirate bait.
Quote:
I was especially impressed by the way the economy was working in the game - entirely dynamic with npc stations sending out ships to acquire the goods they needed for construction or just running the base.
I guess this is something along the line of what many of us hope to see in Eve eventually
Exactly what I meant. Before EVE launched I envisioned a very busy universe where things are moving and active in the Empires and all for a real important reason. Instead what I got was a ghost world. All is static and uninteresting.
Quote:
Its not supposed to be an NPC game - its about the players. You want to see corporations mining - then - er... go and look you will find corporations mining. PC Industrial ships hauling their goods and PC players preying upon them.
I understand that but NPC immersion can only help not hurt and help a lot might I add. It will give EVE the life itÆs lacking and many layers of depth and possibilities.
Quote:
I constantly hear people saying where is the content etc. and it drives me nuts. We have this amazing universe to explore, trade and interact with each other and 90% of the people treat it as a `database` and bemoan the fact they are bored. Any game u care to play if u reduce it to that level is boring - most games are just databases. Sure some have great story lines but they are static constructs (except in a few rare cases).
Great things to explore? No one cares what you saw or found or have any use of it either. What good does exploring do if your findings are unimportant? Trading is boring, just boring. You shuffle around items that have no use to no one, unless youÆre running minerals to players. That just means that most of the trade commodities serve no function other then to generate ISK to players.
EVE doesnÆt have to be just a database and constructs. It should be a living breathing fairytale or adventure world which ever way you want it. Nothing is going on in EVE, the worlds, citizens and ships are not theirà they donÆt exist; they only exist in paper for now.
Have you played the greatest RPG games in the consoles such as Final Fantasy 7? That game sucks you in and makes you believe youÆre in an alternate breathing world. The story is not just talked about; it is seen and gets mixed in it. ThatÆs what IÆm aiming at here. Man thank god for the player pirates!! I dislike what they do but with out them EVE will be a soulless broken game, instead of just a broken game. When I say broken I donÆt mean bugs I mean the inherit fundamentals flaws that donÆt make the game work like the way people thought it would, for example the broken economy.
Quote:
I didn't buy this game for NPC i bought it for the player run side of things, this game is not advertised as a npc sort of game :D its surposed to be all player driven....
Correct but I feel that 5000 players arenÆt enough to drive the huge Universe of EVE. You need hundreds of thousands of entities going about their business of making EVE move and work. With out them you canÆt convince players like me that EVE is dynamic and breathing.
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ChaosTEK
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Posted - 2003.07.24 03:01:00 -
[17]
Edited by: ChaosTEK on 24/07/2003 03:04:38
Why do you want to see npc's do all this when pc's are already doing it. Personaly i'd rather interact with real people than npc's.
It's a player run economy not an npc one.
And npc's aren't selling much be because that the players job.
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Signamati
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Posted - 2003.07.24 03:26:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Signamati on 24/07/2003 03:27:52
No content? More people asking for more database based gameplay? Yes, I can understand some stuff is needed to get the ball rolling. And its on its way...things do not happen overnight. Read some of the Dev chats. Ideas and implementations are in the works. Yes, I know people want deadlines or they want things now...but you cannot always have it your way. I am enjoying the game quite thoroughly even with bugs.
EVE is a Broken World? Umm, no? Players need to stop wanting to be spoon-fed and really see what they can do with the game. And when stuff gets implemented, then that's a nice addition, but I am not going to be one of the peeps that get over-excited on something new. There's already plenty to do and plenty to interact with as well as more on the way...it just takes time to go from human thought to computer programming code.
Stop waiting for handouts and play the darn game already.
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nono
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Posted - 2003.07.24 06:23:00 -
[19]
Sutty "I didn't buy this game for NPC i bought it for the player run side of things, this game is not advertised as a npc sort of game :D its surposed to be all player driven...."
You bought this game because like Homeworld you thought you and your buddies would be badass and dominate shyt by ganging up and being the uber guys. Your an RTS player that ventured into a RP game. Nothing bad in that no diss intended. You want to be dominant and controlling. Trouble is if you achieve your objective against a dominishing populace what have you gained lol.
Stand tall on that hill and shout aloud " we are the greatest" ROFL.
Homeworld 2 is delayed bud. At least CCP gained another month. All you Homeworlders KNOW where your going to be. Your there half the time now.
BIB stands for what? Heh.
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