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Ivaelo Enaka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 14:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Noob here (3 months <>4M SP) and have got myself to a decent enough skill level that I'm pretty comfortable with level 3 security missions in my Caracal equipped with light missiles. Whilst I can shield tank ok I'm struggling with DPS to take down some of the extreme NPCs.
Tried Heavy Assault Missiles to gain greater DPS but was surprised at their range. Just 15KM with my skills compared to 44KM on Light Missiles. Unless I'm missing something improving range with Missile Bombardment and Missile Projection isn't going to get me close to 44KM of the Light Missiles.
What do I need to train in to improve the range of Heavy Assault Missiles?
My skills listed here http://eveboard.com/pilot/Ivaelo_Enaka
Thanks |

Haulie Berry
260
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Posted - 2013.03.13 15:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
In a caracal, training your cruiser skill will increase your missile range, as well. With tech 2 launchers, you can use Javelin hams that will do less damage, but go further.
In general, however, understand that HAMs are a comparatively short range missile. They are the cruiser version of rockets. Heavy missiles are the cruiser version of light missiles, and if range is primarily what you need, those are your best bet.
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Ivaelo Enaka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.03.13 15:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:In general, however, understand that HAMs are a comparatively short range missile. They are the cruiser version of rockets. Heavy missiles are the cruiser version of light missiles, and if range is primarily what you need, those are your best bet.
Ah ok. Thanks - that's the bit of information I'm missing and wasn't aware of. Cheers 
|

Orlacc
318
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Posted - 2013.03.13 16:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Always "show info" on your ships to see what bonuses they offer. On the front page. "Measure Twice, Cut Once." |

Jensaro Koraka
Serenity Prime Kraken.
61
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 16:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ivaelo Enaka wrote:Noob here (3 months <>4M SP) and have got myself to a decent enough skill level that I'm pretty comfortable with level 3 security missions in my Caracal equipped with light missiles. Whilst I can shield tank ok I'm struggling with DPS to take down some of the extreme NPCs. Tried Heavy Assault Missiles to gain greater DPS but was surprised at their range. Just 15KM with my skills compared to 44KM on Light Missiles. Unless I'm missing something improving range with Missile Bombardment and Missile Projection isn't going to get me close to 44KM of the Light Missiles. What do I need to train in to improve the range of Heavy Assault Missiles? My skills listed here http://eveboard.com/pilot/Ivaelo_EnakaThanks For lv3's you should get a drake.
Edit: And heavy assault missiles aren't the medium version of light missiles, they're the medium version of rockets. Heavy missiles are the medium version of light missiles. "Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -H.L. Mencken |

Ivaelo Enaka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.03.13 16:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jensaro Koraka wrote:For lv3's you should get a drake.
I did but fitted HAMs and rather foolishly didn't check range before heading out. I quickly headed back station.
But I can see now I need to look at Heavy Missiles rather than Heavy Assault Missiles.
Cheers
|

Alexander Sinclair
Space Exploitation Inc Get Off My Lawn
0
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Posted - 2013.03.13 18:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Ivaelo Enaka wrote:Jensaro Koraka wrote:For lv3's you should get a drake. I did but fitted HAMs and rather foolishly didn't check range before heading out. I quickly headed back station. But I can see now I need to look at Heavy Missiles rather than Heavy Assault Missiles. Cheers
The old heavy missiles were a relic from a time when missiles didn't have DPS or Range Versions so the old Heavy Missiles had both. |

Ivaelo Enaka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 21:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:In a caracal, training your cruiser skill will increase your missile range, as well.
Orlacc wrote:Always "show info" on your ships to see what bonuses they offer. On the front page.
Was at work when reading these two comments and they didn't make sense. At home and looking at EVE they do. I never noticed that before! That's two great tips from one thread. Thanks all.
Traits Caldari Cruiser skill bonus per level: 5% bonus Rapid Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Launcher rate of fire 10% bonus to Light, Heavy Assault and Heavy Missile Velocity |

Ivaelo Enaka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 18:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jensaro Koraka wrote:For lv3's you should get a drake.
Edit: And heavy assault missiles aren't the medium version of light missiles, they're the medium version of rockets. Heavy missiles are the medium version of light missiles.
I tried a Drake with Heavy Missiles on a lvl 3 mission last night. Can't hit frigates for ****! Battlecruisers not so bad.
It was so bad I was barely getting 13-15 dmg per hit - when it hit which wasn't often, that after 10 minutes of trying to take down the single remaining frig I warped back to station. Jumped in my Caracal with light missiles, warped back and hit the frig for 100-130dmg per hit - which was often, and finished him off in less than 30 seconds.
I'm guessing heavy missiles are less accurate but what stat for the missile dictates that and what can I do to improve my accuracy? Heavy Missile Specialisation and Heavy Missile skills solely seem to improve damage and reload speed. Training further in Battlecruiser again only improves damage.
So what am I not understanding? I can't see a way to improve my heavy missile accuracy which appears to be appalling.
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Bridgette d'Iberville
Better Killing Through Chemistry
169
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Posted - 2013.03.14 19:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
OK... so the missile damage formula is pretty complicated. You can google "EVE Missile formula" and get teh technical details of how the thing works. Here are the very basic concepts to understand:
1) Smaller ships suffer less damage from larger missiles. There is a complicated equation detailing this involivng the explosion radius of a missile compared to the signature radius of a target ship, but it essentially says that large missiles can't apply their full force to ships that are relatively smaller than the explosion the missile creates. That's part one of what you're seeing, as you're shooting medium missiles at a small ship.
2) In a similar vein, faster ships generally take less damage from missiles. Missile explosions expand at a certain rate. If your ship moves fast enough, it can avoid a lot of the damage by outrunning the explosion (think of the Millenum Falcon flying out of the Death Star II in Return of The Jedi). You may also see that in your situation if the frigate is reasonably fast.
The way to address these issues can be done in a number of ways: Warhead Rigor Catalyst Rigs (reduces the relative size of the explosion) Warhead Flare Catalyst Rigs (increases the speed of expansion fo the explosion) Target Painter Modules (increases signature size of whatever you paint) Stasis Webifier Module (Reduces target's speed) Guided Missile Precision Skill (reduces the relative size of the explosion) Target Navigation Prediction Skill (reduces the impact target velocity has in comparing to rate of expansion of explosion)
Best bet is to train the skills and put some Warhead Rigor Catalyst rigs on your drake if you can't kill the frigates with your drones.
Here's a very detailed article from EVE UNI: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Missile_Damage Lighting a cyno to my ladyparts, jump on in! |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
8155
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 21:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ivaelo Enaka wrote:Jensaro Koraka wrote:For lv3's you should get a drake.
Edit: And heavy assault missiles aren't the medium version of light missiles, they're the medium version of rockets. Heavy missiles are the medium version of light missiles. I tried a Drake with Heavy Missiles on a lvl 3 mission last night. Can't hit frigates for ****! Battlecruisers not so bad. It was so bad I was barely getting 13-15 dmg per hit - when it hit which wasn't often, that after 10 minutes of trying to take down the single remaining frig I warped back to station. Jumped in my Caracal with light missiles, warped back and hit the frig for 100-130dmg per hit - which was often, and finished him off in less than 30 seconds. I'm guessing heavy missiles are less accurate but what stat for the missile dictates that and what can I do to improve my accuracy? Heavy Missile Specialisation and Heavy Missile skills solely seem to improve damage and reload speed. Training further in Battlecruiser again only improves damage. So what am I not understanding? I can't see a way to improve my heavy missile accuracy which appears to be appalling.
When you're in your Drake, use your missiles to bring down the larger ships first. The Drake has a drone bay; once all the rats are aggro'd on you, unleash your drones to kill the small stuff whilst you kill the big guys with your missiles.
Vote for Malcanis for CSM8 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=192717&find=unread |

Ivaelo Enaka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 22:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bridgette d'Iberville wrote:OK... so the missile damage formula is pretty complicated. You can google "EVE Missile formula" and get teh technical details of how the thing works. Here are the very basic concepts to understand: 1) Smaller ships suffer less damage from larger missiles. There is a complicated equation detailing this involivng the explosion radius of a missile compared to the signature radius of a target ship, but it essentially says that large missiles can't apply their full force to ships that are relatively smaller than the explosion the missile creates. That's part one of what you're seeing, as you're shooting medium missiles at a small ship. 2) In a similar vein, faster ships generally take less damage from missiles. Missile explosions expand at a certain rate. If your ship moves fast enough, it can avoid a lot of the damage by outrunning the explosion (think of the Millenum Falcon flying out of the Death Star II in Return of The Jedi). You may also see that in your situation if the frigate is reasonably fast. The way to address these issues can be done in a number of ways: Warhead Rigor Catalyst Rigs (reduces the relative size of the explosion) Warhead Flare Catalyst Rigs (increases the speed of expansion fo the explosion) Target Painter Modules (increases signature size of whatever you paint) Stasis Webifier Module (Reduces target's speed) Guided Missile Precision Skill (reduces the relative size of the explosion) Target Navigation Prediction Skill (reduces the impact target velocity has in comparing to rate of expansion of explosion) Best bet is to train the skills and put some Warhead Rigor Catalyst rigs on your drake if you can't kill the frigates with your drones. Here's a very detailed article from EVE UNI: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Missile_Damage
Ok that explains it pretty clearly though I will google the missile formula to see if it adds any details for me. But your describing exactly what I was seeing and your comments make absolute sense. Thank you. 
Malcanis wrote:When you're in your Drake, use your missiles to bring down the larger ships first. The Drake has a drone bay; once all the rats are aggro'd on you, unleash your drones to kill the small stuff whilst you kill the big guys with your missiles.
Not considered that but seems a decent tactic. Maybe I've just got so used to flying the Caracal I'm struggling to adapt. Thanks  |

Roseline Penshar
Enlightened Academy
3
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 11:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
bridgette's explanation is enough, the skills and module that he/she suggest are the way to improve your damage toward smaller target (ex : HM want to hit frigs, CM want to hit BC/cruiser/destroyer/frig)
and i suggest you cyclone if you can use it, since drake's bonus is using kinetic and cyclone's can use all type of missile |

Friggz
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
40
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Posted - 2013.03.18 01:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ivaelo Enaka wrote: I'm guessing heavy missiles are less accurate but what stat for the missile dictates that and what can I do to improve my accuracy? Heavy Missile Specialisation and Heavy Missile skills solely seem to improve damage and reload speed. Training further in Battlecruiser again only improves damage.
So what am I not understanding? I can't see a way to improve my heavy missile accuracy which appears to be appalling.
Missiles do not have accuracy. If the target is in range they always hit, but damage is dependant on many factors and it's complex to calculate but here is the basic idea.
Every missile as an 'explosion velocity', this means that when the missile impacts the target, how fast the explosion from the missile moves outward. If the ship is moving faster than the speed of the explosion, they take reduced damage.
Every missile has an 'explosion radius', this means that when the missile explodes, the explosion is a certain size. If the target is smaller than the radius of the explosion, the target takes reduced damage.
This means your damage will be dictated by how fast the target is moving and how big the target is. You can reduce the target speed with a webber and effectively increase a target's size with a target painter.
The following skills will increase your missile damage (Other than the skill itself for that missile, of type, of course):
Guided Missile Precision skill will help with the explosion radius issue.
Target Navigation Prediction will reduce the effect of the speed of the ship.
Rapid Launch will increase your rate of fire.
Warhead Upgrades gives a flat damage bonus.
Re-elect Trebor Daehdoow for a stronger CSM 8. |

Mister Tuggles
Prime Numbers
35
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 00:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Roseline Penshar wrote:bridgette's explanation is enough, the skills and module that he/she suggest are the way to improve your damage toward smaller target (ex : HM want to hit frigs, CM want to hit BC/cruiser/destroyer/frig)
and i suggest you cyclone if you can use it, since drake's bonus is using kinetic and cyclone's can use all type of missile
The main reason for people using the drake is the slot layout, and the bonus to the shield resist. It can fit a BS sized tank and still have semi-decent dps.
While I haven't tried the new Cyclone out yet it doesn't seem like it will be all that good for a newer player running missions. |

Ivaelo Enaka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 12:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mister Tuggles wrote:The main reason for people using the drake is the slot layout, and the bonus to the shield resist. It can fit a BS sized tank and still have semi-decent dps.
While I haven't tried the new Cyclone out yet it doesn't seem like it will be all that good for a newer player running missions.
True the Drake does have an additional slot over the Cyclone and the shield capacity is greater. That said with the skills I have after 3 months I'm going to take a look at the Cyclone as the addition of a turret and greater drone capacity/bandwidth could swing it in it's favour. |

Radhe Amatin
Caldari High Prime P R I M E
9
|
Posted - 2013.03.25 10:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
drake is fine..... the fact that you can`t hit smaller targets its because you're lacking support skills..... i fly a drake for combat sites in exploration...and with guided missile precision at lvl 4 and target navigation prediction at lvl 4 with T2 HML and precision missiles frigs go down in 1 volley and that if i bother to kill the frigs , normally i just let my drones clean them up.
The only time i use missiles vs frig are where there are only frigs to kill and versus elite frigs since they tend to attack drones very often.
Rigs also help.... but u will have to give a good chunk of your tank to be able to hit frigs better.
There's a reason drake has 5 light drones..use them.
As for the caracal is a nice boat train cruiser to lvl 4 and missile bombardment and projection at lvl 4.....sit at 70+ km and spam missiles.
|

John Ratcliffe
sausy sausages
106
|
Posted - 2013.03.25 11:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jensaro Koraka wrote:For lv3's you should get a drake.
I do Lvl 3s in a Hookbill with Light Missiles. A Caracal with heavy Missiles is overkill for lvl 3s. No need for a Drake at all.
Plus +ša change, plus c'est la m+Žme chose |

Mike Whiite
Cupid Stunts. Casoff
166
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 12:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
you're quite new, but avoid spending rigor riggs on a Drake.
It can hit frigates with the proper support skills.
Missiles precision is a must, if that isn't enough use a Target painter.
Standaard PvE Drake uses it's riggs for Shield purgers, in time that will give you a tank that can run quite some lvl 4 missions.
Cyclone can be better in certain ocasions but needs more skill to run propperly.
|

Aelia Alfirin
Sawur
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 06:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mike Whiite wrote: Missiles precision is a must, if that isn't enough use a Target painter.
Is it better to equip Heavy Missiles on a Drake instead of Heavy Assault?
Guided Missile Precision doesn't do anything for HAMs, as they are unguided (or so it says in the description). |

Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
56
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 12:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
Aelia Alfirin wrote:Guided Missile Precision doesn't do anything for HAMs, as they are unguided (or so it says in the description). That used to be true, but they changed it in Retribution:
Quote:Short Range Missiles Change the Guided Missile Precision skill, as well as all associated implants and rigs to affect all subcap missiles |

Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
116
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 13:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
With t1 launchers and low support skills, elite frigates are incredibly annoying to take down with heavy missiles. That's where drones step in and with a flight of t2 warriors/hobs they go down pretty fast: just remember not to send them too far out or risk losing them.
With t2 launchers using precision missiles and having supports to 4: one volley does around 450 damage to an elite frigate and is enough to 3-4 shot it. |

Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Tribal Band
639
|
Posted - 2013.05.02 23:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
The key to missiles is to remember they are affected by 2 target attributes
Velocity Size
The faster your target is moving, the less damage it takes, as it moves out of the explosion radius more quickly. The smaller the target is, the less damage it takes, as more of the explosion is where the target physically is not.
Theres 2 skills you can train, and 2 Modules aswell.
Target Velocity = Webifier Target Size = Target Painter
Due to the range limatation of the webifier, it's generally only useful with T2 Precision Ammo or T1/Faction Short Range systems like your original HAM Launchers
The Painter is good with all launchers. |

Riot Girl
RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries
789
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 04:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
John Ratcliffe wrote:Jensaro Koraka wrote:For lv3's you should get a drake. I do Lvl 3s in a Hookbill with Light Missiles. A Caracal with heavy Missiles is overkill for lvl 3s. No need for a Drake at all. You're also a 3 month old player with less than 4m SP.
Oh god. |
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