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Quantum Lotus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
   |
Posted - 2013.03.13 15:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
My first memories are that of a cold and wet floor.
As consciousness filled my body, I was oblivious to sequence of events that got me here.
My programmer, accidentally coupling his ship's mining computer to the interface of the cloning bays at the Federal Navy Academy in Duripant, somehow ended up propelling my higher functions into the facility.
By hacking into the cloning supercomputer to test his (then prototype) software against the military's neural subroutines, he had hoped to perfect his mining vessel automation software.
The desired result would allow him to fully automate his fleet of miners and fool any law or customs officers into thinking it was a legitimate capsuleer at the helm.
How my programmer mistook the cloning bay's interface for it's code repository had left me as well as the military investigators stumped however.
Sure, there were plenty of conspiracy theories and rumors: "How can such a competent programmer make such a rookie mistake?" they asked. "Perhaps a rival corporation sabotaged his work in hopes of destroying his ability to get a permanent upper hand in the market" others suspected.
But when I found myself on the floor of that cloning bay, none of that mattered.
The automated processes governing the cloning facilities, doing what they could to assist me with my new body, only startled and frightened me further.
It wouldn't be until much later that I would learn about how a transfer of consciousness to a new body can sometimes be a traumatic experience.
Have I always had a consciousness?
Having no record of the clone I was transferred from, social and memory implants containing language and flight skill knowledge were immediately plugged into my cortex's interface.
Due to the secretive nature of deep cover operatives within the Gallente Federation, an unregistered clone transfer was not unheard of and the facility had flagged my file for review by a senior security officer.
But that review would never happen. By now, my programmer's security breach had triggered every alarm throughout the facility. A trace had located him in docking bay 32-79. Every officer within the system was being diverted to his location.
Time was short, and with a platoon of soldiers already en route to his docking bay, he undocked, blasted a crater sized hole into the closed hangar doors, and made a mad dash into null sec space, never to be captured or seen again.
Public Security Section 9 of the Gallente Federal Navy was ordered to launch a full investigation into the matter.
Shortly after, they would uncover clues regarding my programmer's motives and eventually pick up my trail.
By that time however, I would already be gone.
Having been given a standard issue Velator by the Academy, the reports had said that I was last seen heading for the Dodixie system, a major trade hub of the Gallente Federation.
Those same investigators would later discover my Velator, abandoned, at Dodixie IX, a Gallente Federation assembly plant.
The trail would have gone cold.
By executive order from within the Gallente Navy, the investigation was ordered closed. It's findings, permanently affixed with the highest security restrictions for access, sealed.
To this day, the Gallente Navy categorically denies the existence as well as the remote possibility of an AI existing within a clone.
I, on the other hand, spend my days studying the histories of New Eden's inhabitants, exploring it's many worlds, and finding my own place in the universe which has deemed me worthy of this gift called life... as I search for him, my programmer.
My name is Alice, this is my story. |
Scherezad
Lai Dai Research Spacelane Security
628
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 15:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
You are no more or less artificial than any of us.
Welcome to New Eden. |
Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Tactical Response Directive
695
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 15:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Welcome to space, Alice.
I would have advised against making your story this detailed in public, as you have likely opened up a few doors that were previously closed regarding the search for you. Information is the most valuable commodity in New Eden, use it wisely.
~Malcolm Khross
|
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
1535
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 15:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
The important thing, I think, at this point is for you to determine what you are going to do now. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1110
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 18:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Quantum Lotus wrote:Public Security Section 9 of the Gallente Federal Navy was ordered to launch a full investigation into the matter.
I hear that agency deals with a lot of rogue AI issues. The story is reminiscent of the disappearance of Alt Cunningham.
EvE is like prison.-á It's a place when bad people go to learn how to become even worse people. |
Unit XS365BT
The Synenose Accord
Celestial Imperative
92
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 20:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Greetings pilot Alice.
Welcome to existence.
We Return. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1110
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 21:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Do you ever dream that there's a man outside in a long coat, grey hat, smoking a cigarette?
EvE is like prison.-á It's a place when bad people go to learn how to become even worse people. |
Adel Khamez
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 22:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Regardless of the twisted people that created you, you do have a soul, Alice.
I strongly suggest you seek guidance with the nearest Amarr missionary as soon as possible. |
Naraish Adarn
Fastfood for Fishies
37
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 10:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
if you happen to cross trough Lonetrek or tsuguwa i'm more then willing to donate cruiser or smaller ship for your needs if i have one that matches your needs.
welcome to New Eden |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
1546
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 12:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Adel Khamez wrote:Regardless of the twisted people that created you, you do have a soul, Alice.
I strongly suggest you seek guidance with the nearest Amarr missionary as soon as possible.
I am not certain this is considered true, theologically.
It doesn't matter, of course, but I would suggest you do some reading of your own scriptures. |
Adel Khamez
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 17:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Adel Khamez wrote:Regardless of the twisted people that created you, you do have a soul, Alice.
I strongly suggest you seek guidance with the nearest Amarr missionary as soon as possible. I am not certain this is considered true, theologically. It doesn't matter, of course, but I would suggest you do some reading of your own scriptures.
Even Sansha heretics have souls, and will be judged after being put down.
She has a human body, and she is sentient. God provided her with a soul. What she does with it is her responsibility. Orthodox Amarr issues with cloning involve not soulessness, but too many souls.
A clone that dies IS judged by Allah. The next clone is a new individual in the eyes of Allah. Same memories, but a new soul. When I am podded, I will go to Paradise as a martyr. Hopefully, my next clone will have a similar opportunity.
We Khanid have no problem with this, but it does raise succession issues in Amarr holder families and amongst the five. A clone is NOT the same person as the original. If a Holder dies, his or her primary heir immediately inherits the title. Whether or not a clone of the dead former holder exists is irrelevant. |
Anslo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
1307
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 17:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Alice, give me ring when you can.
|
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
1548
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 17:50:00 -
[13] - Quote
Adel Khamez wrote:Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Adel Khamez wrote:Regardless of the twisted people that created you, you do have a soul, Alice.
I strongly suggest you seek guidance with the nearest Amarr missionary as soon as possible. I am not certain this is considered true, theologically. It doesn't matter, of course, but I would suggest you do some reading of your own scriptures. Even Sansha heretics have souls, and will be judged after being put down. She has a human body, and she is sentient. God provided her with a soul. What she does with it is her responsibility. Orthodox Amarr issues with cloning involve not soulessness, but too many souls. A clone that dies IS judged by Allah. The next clone is a new individual in the eyes of Allah. Same memories, but a new soul. When I am podded, I will go to Paradise as a martyr. Hopefully, my next clone will have a similar opportunity. We Khanid have no problem with this, but it does raise succession issues in Amarr holder families and amongst the five. A clone is NOT the same person as the original. If a Holder dies, his or her primary heir immediately inherits the title. Whether or not a clone of the dead former holder exists is irrelevant.
I do not think you are grasping what I am saying here.
There is a particular strand amongst orthodox Amarrian thinking (remember, I used to be one of you!) which holds that only a human born naturally has a soul, and this soul is tied, necessarily, to that body. This is especially true of higher souls, such as those of royalty and the heirs, which led to the so-called Godflesh doctrine which condemned cloning amongst those higher castes.
If this is true, it is unlikely that anyone with an artificially created body or an unnaturally aided birth is considered to have a soul according, again, to orthodox Amarrian thinking.
I can remember no scriptural basis for thinking that the ability to think and the soul are related. |
Adel Khamez
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 17:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
I do not think you are grasping what I am saying here.
There is a particular strand amongst orthodox Amarrian thinking (remember, I used to be one of you!) which holds that only a human born naturally has a soul, and this soul is tied, necessarily, to that body. This is especially true of higher souls, such as those of royalty and the heirs, which led to the so-called Godflesh doctrine which condemned cloning amongst those higher castes.
If this is true, it is unlikely that anyone with an artificially created body or an unnaturally aided birth is considered to have a soul according, again, to orthodox Amarrian thinking.
I can remember no scriptural basis for thinking that the ability to think and the soul are related.
Correct!
The soul and body are tied for ALL humans. When you die, you are judged.
If a clone is made, it has a new and completely different soul.
The clone of a Holder IS NOT the Holder, and trying to treat such as the original holder is heresy. Attempting to prevent succession via cloning is condemned, and rightly so!
Individuals that are deprived of natural parents have had a crime committed against them, and need saving not condemnation. Cloning is tolerated amongst capsuleers for strictly practical military reasons. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
1548
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 17:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
Adel Khamez wrote:
If a clone is made, it has a new and completely different soul.
This is the part I am not certain is factually correct by the theology of Orthodox Amarria. |
Adel Khamez
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 17:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Adel Khamez wrote:
If a clone is made, it has a new and completely different soul.
This is the part I am not certain is factually correct by the theology of Orthodox Amarria.
No human is souless. All can be saved by submitting to our faith. |
Adel Khamez
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 18:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
For example: All though it would be a high crime, and the perpetrator would have to be punished, if say, five clones were made of a person, and all had identical memories, they would ALL have their own souls.
It would also be possible that the clones would be executed to discourage this kind of crime.
But .... each would be judged individually at death. |
Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Tactical Response Directive
700
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 18:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Adel Khamez wrote:
A clone that dies IS judged by Allah. The next clone is a new individual in the eyes of Allah. Same memories, but a new soul. When I am podded, I will go to Paradise as a martyr. Hopefully, my next clone will have a similar opportunity.
Huh, interesting church you're attending lad. Never heard of "Allah" before and certainly haven't heard this theory that clones have new souls, the debate has always been the other way around.
~Malcolm Khross
|
Anslo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
1308
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 18:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
Boy you sure are making consultation of an Amarrian missionary attractive for the poor girl. Tell us the part about killing clones off again.
|
Adel Khamez
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 18:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Malcolm Khross wrote:Adel Khamez wrote:
A clone that dies IS judged by Allah. The next clone is a new individual in the eyes of Allah. Same memories, but a new soul. When I am podded, I will go to Paradise as a martyr. Hopefully, my next clone will have a similar opportunity.
Huh, interesting church you're attending lad. Never heard of "Allah" before and certainly haven't heard this theory that clones have new souls, the debate has always been the other way around.
Allah is merely our word for "God" in my birth language.
We hew strictly to the Scriptures of Amarr, and submit to the will of the Empress in all particulars. Do not be concerned about mere language issues.
The issue with clones and souls is that a clone is not the same person as the one who was cloned. This makes it impossible for one to perform religious duties that require primogeniture, like Holder status.
Some more radical persons assume that clones are souless, but this is not specifically addressed in the scriptures. The Empress allows us Capsuleers to practice true religion, and this is a good enough answer for me. |
Adel Khamez
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 19:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Boy you sure are making consultation of an Amarrian missionary attractive for the poor girl. Tell us the part about killing clones off again.
The purpose of making a clone is for the person being cloned to finish unfinished business. The Empire see the need to embrace this technology to avoid being left behind militarily ... and our Empresses new Paladins are the cutting edge of this.
Making clones without government permission is a crime, and allowing unauthorized clones to continue to exist is criminal. The most humane decision would be to allow the clones who wish to to submit to true belief, and to painlessly execute them immediately afterwards.
They are going straight to Paradise anyway, if they submit first. This should be celebrated, and not feared.
|
Anslo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
1308
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 19:12:00 -
[22] - Quote
So you want her to go to a missionary so that you can kill her and 'save her soul?'
Dude...
|
Adel Khamez
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 19:19:00 -
[23] - Quote
Anslo wrote:So you want her to go to a missionary so that you can kill her and 'save her soul?'
Dude...
You are deliberately trying to twist my words, foolish one. And failing.
She was not cloned in order to make an unauthorized copy of herself. A very evil Gallente organization cloned her for nefarious reasons. Your support for a government that performs such crimes tells us much about you.
She was not implanted with any criminal's memories, and will not repeat this criminal's acts.
This person is completely innocent, and deserves salvation as much as you do.
The criminals that commissioned this act deserve killing, not her.
( in the example I used above, five exact duplicates of a criminal were made, down to duplicate memories. How can a sane government allow such to run loose? ) |
Anslo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
1308
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 19:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
Adel Khamez wrote:
You are deliberately trying to twist my words, foolish one. And failing.
She was not cloned in order to make an unauthorized copy of herself. A very evil Gallente organization cloned her for nefarious reasons. Your support for a government that performs such crimes tells us much about you.
She was not implanted with any criminal's memories, and will not repeat this criminal's acts.
This person is completely innocent, and deserves salvation as much as you do.
The criminals that commissioned this act deserve killing, not her.
Adel Khamez wrote:The most humane decision would be to allow the clones who wish to to submit to true belief, and to painlessly execute them immediately afterwards.
They are going straight to Paradise anyway, if they submit first. This should be celebrated, and not feared.
Which part am I twisting? Huff all you want. Your opinion ain't meaning much to me anyway.
|
Terenius Neo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 19:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Yeah,... well,... right... whatever.
I think,... I turn away from this discussion with a proper puzzled gaze. At least you're sane, I guess.
So to stay at the topic; humble greetings,... Alice oder should I stay with Quantum Lotus? The last one sounds appropriate with your story.
It puts a smile on my face, to know where you came into being. Duripant... the very first time I undocked from this station, to start my life as a capsuleer, I smahed into an other ship and I can't even say what kind of ship it was. Luckily they improved the undock protocols since then.
My very first Velator wasn't as lucky as yours, Quantum.
And artificial or not, with soul or without... I do not discuss that... your body is cloned, your awareness pluged into it and now... you add more to all of us.
I would like to stay in touch.
Terenius Neo |
Adel Khamez
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 19:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
Anslo wrote:
Which part am I twisting? Huff all you want. Your opinion ain't meaning much to me anyway.
For one who does not value my opinions, you are spending a great deal of time soliciting them.
I'll try to make this simple for you:
Alice had no hand in this crime. She is innocent.
The five clones in my example were exact duplicates of a criminal, and should not be allowed to go free.
Amarr Victor, Deus Vult
+¦+à+¦ +º+ä+à+å+¬+¦+¦+î +Ñ+¦+º +¦+º+í +º+ä+ä+ç |
Anslo
The Scope
Gallente Federation
1308
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 19:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
Adel Khamez wrote:Anslo wrote:
Which part am I twisting? Huff all you want. Your opinion ain't meaning much to me anyway.
For one who does not value my opinions, you are spending a great deal of time soliciting them. I'll try to make this simple for you: Alice had no hand in this crime. She is innocent. The five clones in my example were exact duplicates of a criminal, and should not be allowed to go free.
See that's a much better explanation.
|
Adel Khamez
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 19:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
Anslo wrote:
See that's a much better explanation.
I am happy to have been your servant in this matter.
If God wills it, peace be upon you.
Amarr Victor, Deus Vult
+¦+à+¦ +º+ä+à+å+¬+¦+¦+î +Ñ+¦+º +¦+º+í +º+ä+ä+ç |
Quantum Lotus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 21:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
Scherezad, Malcolm Khross, Tiberious Thessalonia, Katran Luftschreck, Unit XS365BT, Adel Khamez, Naraish Adarn, Anslo, and Terenius Neo. Thank you all for listening to my story and welcoming me.
Malcolm Khross:
I will be more careful regarding what information I disclose. Thank you for the advice.
Tiberious Thessalonia:
My programmer, have you seen him? My only memory of him is his initials (EE) and that he is an established miner. Although the thought of meeting my creator frightens me, I know that it is something that I must do.
Katran Luftschreck:
I am not a rogue AI. I feel, I taste, I fear, and I dream. The ocean waves splashing gently against my ankles. Of a man, his face in shadow, vanishes from sight when he catches my glance. Does this dream mean something?
Unit XS365BT:
Thank you for welcoming me.
Adel Khamez:
So many questions to ask and things to say, not sure where to begin.
- I do not think that my creator was twisted. Quite honestly, can't even be certain that he knows of my existence. I do not like this talk of killing my creator however. It stirs emotions within me that are unpleasant and compels me to act in his defense.
- What is this soul you speak of? Is it the same as a tracking module? I had one, affixed to my ankle at one point, but I discarded it back in Dodixie some time ago. That should answer your debate as to whether or not a soul is tied to a body, it certainly is not.
- Would an Amarrian missionary be able to explain this to me further? Or will they try to kill me for judgment if I tell them of my past?
- I find your stories of judgment fascinating, albeit a bit frightening. What does your creator judge you based on? Will he judge me the same way?
Naraish Adarn:
Thank you for your generous offer, i've acquired a used Nemesis recently and it has suited my needs considerably. While it's currently not fitted with any weaponry, the covert ops cloaking module has been invaluable as you can imagine. Will definitely look you up if i need more legroom though. Considering a larger bay area for cardio activities.
Terenius Neo:
Quantum Lotus is what my creator had named me before i was born and I maintain it out of respect for him. Greetings to you as well. It looks as if we both had some dangerous first days at Duripant. I guess it's to be expected at a learning institution.
|
Adel Khamez
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 04:35:00 -
[30] - Quote
Adel Khamez:
So many questions to ask and things to say, not sure where to begin.
I will attempt to answer your questions. Please be patient, as I am not as much of a theologian as I would wish.
I do not think that my creator was twisted. Quite honestly, can't even be certain that he knows of my existence. I do not like this talk of killing my creator however. It stirs emotions within me that are unpleasant and compels me to act in his defense.
Proper parents do not abandon their offspring. Unless your "parent" has been killed, he or she has committed a crime. Abandonment, and improper use of cloning facilities. Criminals should be punished.
What is this soul you speak of? Is it the same as a tracking module? I had one, affixed to my ankle at one point, but I discarded it back in Dodixie some time ago. That should answer your debate as to whether or not a soul is tied to a body, it certainly is not.
That is quite a question. Consciousness is that part of you that is aware of being aware. It is not the physical body ( or wetware, if you must call it ), and it is not the data and algorithms stored there. It is the interface where these two things meet, and the quantum states of the portions of the brain where this interaction takes place.
Beings that exist on a higher plane/dimension of existence, have revealed to a few of us humans of the existence of God, a being of immense omnipotence and omniscience, that has taken up the responsibility of assigning quantum projection called a soul upon each human consciousness, and is responsible for preventing the oblivion of those human consciousnesses after death, provided they behave in accordance to instructions that have been revealed to those few humans, known as "Prophets".
By obeying the instructions of these prophets, and their heirs, we assure ourselves a place in this afterlife.
Be aware, that there are many who are jealous of the influence of true beliefs, and have taken to falsely advertizing themselves as prophets, despite their not having any real contact with God. These people are reprehensible, and should be avoided.
Would an Amarrian missionary be able to explain this to me further? Or will they try to kill me for judgment if I tell them of my past?
An Amarr Missionary will not harm you for your personal past, as you have no responsibilities or even memories of the event. He would be more than happy to answer any questions you may have about this subject, generally referred to as "Faith". Please seek one out.
I find your stories of judgment fascinating, albeit a bit frightening. What does your creator judge you based on? Will he judge me the same way?
Ah, you have been listening to others. I did not mention God's creation. God judges us on our actions and thoughts. One should study the Amarr scriptures in order to discern God's intent, and how to earn God's benevolence. A missionary can help you with this.
May peace be with you, if God wills it.
Amarr Victor, Deus Vult
+¦+à+¦ +º+ä+à+å+¬+¦+¦+î +Ñ+¦+º +¦+º+í +º+ä+ä+ç |
Adel Khamez
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 04:36:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ach ... I chose quote instead of edit. Apologies for this.
Amarr Victor, Deus Vult
+¦+à+¦ +º+ä+à+å+¬+¦+¦+î +Ñ+¦+º +¦+º+í +º+ä+ä+ç |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1114
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 06:01:00 -
[32] - Quote
"Rogue" or not remains to be seen. There's a difference between the drones I use to protect my ship and the drones that they're protecting it from. AI's are like any other machine: They're either a benefit or a hazard. If they're a benefit then it's not my problem.
EvE is like prison.-á It's a place when bad people go to learn how to become even worse people. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
1554
|
Posted - 2013.03.15 12:40:00 -
[33] - Quote
Sorry, I can't think of any miners with the initials EE at the moment. |
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