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Dred 'Morte
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Posted - 2005.08.24 07:18:00 -
[1]
Yesterday forums went down when i tried posting, i hope this works now 
Ok, so, basicly, heres my opinion on blasters: they need fixing, they are the reason Brutix sucks and the reason thorax cant have its dronebay nerfed.
They use more capacitor than lasers (Amarr ships have laser cap bonus), they are very close range, and still, their damage is not so great, a good example i the megathron that is not much better than gankageddon even tough it costs more and needs to get closer. The greatest problem is in medium blasters, the reason why we so many plated rax is not because you need plate, its because theres no point putting medium blaster, they suck.
They use lots of powergride, in fact, most cruiser guns use lots of powergride (or the cruisers have litle powergride)
They use a lot of CPU, you need to buy Named Stuff to fit a thorax/brutix with med blasters
THey use more Capacitor than Lasers cuz there is no bonus for them
Their tracking sucks so much they end up missing a lot and light neutron blasters almost reach the Dps of say, Heavy Ion Blaster.
Decrease the PG, CPU and Cap use and increase Tracking by significant levels, not some stupid 5%, more like 10, 15%, perhaps 20% in case of tracking (and i still doubt it will be enough) and suddenly, the brutix, which has a "built-in" inferior tank to say Caldari ferox or Amarr Prophecy (well, prophecy tanks like a terminator anyway lol), and the need to get real close and use webber, can actually make up with extremely powerfull DPS. And, suddenly, you can actually fit thorax as it was originaly supose to be, blasterboat, and nerf its dronbay (which should go to Vexor IMHO).
Minmatar ships, IMHO, also need love, but i havent played much with them, so i wont talk about that. (Yes im minmatar, but minmatar ships, in general, have always sucked, so i specialized in amarr).
Signature made by Mr Floppykickners |
Franky B
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Posted - 2005.08.24 07:25:00 -
[2]
agreed.
lower PG requirments, improve tracking
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jamesw
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Posted - 2005.08.24 07:41:00 -
[3]
fk tracking, damage is the main problem. even when you get in close, the amount of damage you do is obtainable via other means...
boost damage output per weapon to be a clear winner. getting in that close should have a nice MEATY payoff - one that only happens if you get in close.
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jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
Latest Video: *NEW* Carnage! |
Techyon
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Posted - 2005.08.24 08:41:00 -
[4]
Signed.
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Flash Landsraad
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Posted - 2005.08.24 08:42:00 -
[5]
Sometimes I wonder:
If the thorax can't fit blasters without a PDU or RCU then maybe it wasn't intended to be a blaster platform afterall? Also maybe since blasters do more damage than rails it was intended that even if you had to get closer to the target - the extra damage makes up for the gimped tank as a result.
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2005.08.24 08:51:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Flash Landsraad
Sometimes I wonder:
If the thorax can't fit blasters without a PDU or RCU then maybe it wasn't intended to be a blaster platform afterall? Also maybe since blasters do more damage than rails it was intended that even if you had to get closer to the target - the extra damage makes up for the gimped tank as a result.
Thorax isn't the only ship that uses blasters, and it certanly can't do rails.
signed.
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gfldex
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Posted - 2005.08.24 08:59:00 -
[7]
Show me how you do this in any other CRU befor you continue to whine about the rax!
With advanced weapon upgrades I even got some PG left now. Blaster have the best normalized damage modifier _and_ tracking of all guns. You can underrun any other med turret. Stop whining and get your skills up!
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$ perl -e 'do not $fear and do not die;'
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Orvas Dren
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Posted - 2005.08.24 09:55:00 -
[8]
I think a damage boost of slight proportion is needed.
When a T2 Small Blaster can easily out-do a Med T2 in DPS due to misses/RoF and nearly the same damage per shot there is something wrong.
Give the Med Blasters a reason... Because I won't even use them on a BS. My Domi runs 250mm, and even then the dmg is weak compared to the 150mm II and even the 125mm II.
All around the Med and Large Hybrid need a serious damage increase.
Or we could all just get better skills to match the damage of the guns that didn't need to skill as much.
Doesn't help that everything in-game has at least decent Kinetic resists too...
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The Nest
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LUKEC
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Posted - 2005.08.24 11:20:00 -
[9]
there is good example:
rax with t2 light neutrons and 1600mm plate and med repper
or:
rax with t2 heavy electrons and 800mm t2 plate and small repper.
Obvious choice is 1. Reason is: t2 small guns do almost same dmg as t2 heavy electrons with 25% dmg bonus from ship skill. Now go figure.
Oh and there was comparison of 150mm t2 and dual 150mm... and again 150 t2 was 10% behind in terms of dmg, but tracking is far superior.
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benwallace
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Posted - 2005.08.24 11:27:00 -
[10]
Originally by: gfldex
Show me how you do this in any other CRU befor you continue to whine about the rax!
With advanced weapon upgrades I even got some PG left now. Blaster have the best normalized damage modifier _and_ tracking of all guns. You can underrun any other med turret. Stop whining and get your skills up!
do you know what this disscussing is about no? then go away kthx. Blaster use to much cap and to much grid for the damage they put out
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Espen
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Posted - 2005.08.24 11:40:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Flash Landsraad
Sometimes I wonder:
If the thorax can't fit blasters without a PDU or RCU then maybe it wasn't intended to be a blaster platform afterall? Also maybe since blasters do more damage than rails it was intended that even if you had to get closer to the target - the extra damage makes up for the gimped tank as a result.
Then why does it have mwd bonus?
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bundy bear
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Posted - 2005.08.24 12:07:00 -
[12]
Edited by: bundy bear on 24/08/2005 12:13:09
Originally by: gfldex
Show me how you do this in any other CRU befor you continue to whine about the rax!
With advanced weapon upgrades I even got some PG left now. Blaster have the best normalized damage modifier _and_ tracking of all guns. You can underrun any other med turret. Stop whining and get your skills up!
Hmm judging by the fact that none of the ships are even shooting at you, you must have a friend in local tanking the spawn for you. Also i would like to know what type of drones you have to allow 35 in your drone bay? Med + lights maybe?. most cruisers could take out that spawn if they arent taking any DMG so what is the picture proving ???.
lower the thoraxes drone bay and improve blasters.
Edit: Also judging by the amount of ammo u have used and how much cap used so far. MAYBE the fight here hasnt been going for long enough. well not long enough for u to have done that much dmg to that NPC battleship. Meaning that your tanking friend is/was shooting him aswell.
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gfldex
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Posted - 2005.08.24 12:09:00 -
[13]
Originally by: benwallace
Blaster use to much cap and to much grid for the damage they put out
I use:
5x med electron
1x 10MN AB II, 1x Med Cap Battery II, 1x webber
1x Med Repair II, 2x active hardener, 2x cap relays
I can run all guns and the tank or the tank and the AB forever. Both capa skills are at 5, controlled busts is at 4 and AB capa skill is at 3. I still have some PG and CPU left with that fitting. Get you skill up!
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$ perl -e 'do not $fear and do not die;'
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gfldex
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Posted - 2005.08.24 12:14:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Orvas Dren
Doesn't help that everything in-game has at least decent Kinetic resists too...
Wrong!
gurista are weak to kinetic and thermal
angle are weak to explosive and kinetic
serpentis are weak to thermal and kinetic
sanshas and blood raider are weak to em and thermal
source: eve-i object explorer
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$ perl -e 'do not $fear and do not die;'
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ThehappyOne
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Posted - 2005.08.24 12:14:00 -
[15]
i think ur very very wrong, blasters are supsesd to be the most powerful gun in eve, so why should it have supior tracking than autos? also i dont think the pg or cpu should be lowerd so u can fit more of the powerful guns, about the cap thing ever heard of controlled burst? i think that all you haev stated is wrong and should be left how it is. heres a tip to slove you guns missing. fit a webber
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Kye Kenshin
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Posted - 2005.08.24 12:22:00 -
[16]
I totally agree.
Med blasters are basically useless in practical terms and are out dmg by light neutrons due to tracking.
They do need to be reworked a bit. Also did they get a pg reduction at the same time that large hybrids did?
If not why?
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Kaeten
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Posted - 2005.08.24 12:27:00 -
[17]
blasters atm are jokes, rails can nearly do everything blasters can and more.
Fix Blasters.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.08.24 12:44:00 -
[18]
Originally by: gfldex
Originally by: benwallace
Blaster use to much cap and to much grid for the damage they put out
I use:
5x med electron
1x 10MN AB II, 1x Med Cap Battery II, 1x webber
1x Med Repair II, 2x active hardener, 2x cap relays
I can run all guns and the tank or the tank and the AB forever. Both capa skills are at 5, controlled busts is at 4 and AB capa skill is at 3. I still have some PG and CPU left with that fitting. Get you skill up!
My fitting skills are probably superior to yours since 1.5 years, but still rax sucks with medium guns compared to small ones. I tested it last week, and the rax sucked... (but still nerf its drones!)
But compared to Moa and rupture, rax is still ok
Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now? |
Dred 'Morte
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Posted - 2005.08.24 12:46:00 -
[19]
Ups forgot about that, damage has to be increased too, i even pointed that out on megathron. But if the ship stopped missing so much, the dmg would improve quite a bit!
Signature made by Mr Floppykickners |
gfldex
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Posted - 2005.08.24 12:46:00 -
[20]
This guy switched from small blasters to med. Looks like _he_ know how to fly a rax.
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$ perl -e 'do not $fear and do not die;'
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Apoll
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Posted - 2005.08.24 12:53:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Espen
Originally by: Flash Landsraad
Sometimes I wonder:
Then why does it have mwd bonus?
a) by accident
b) because it has planet signature radius
c) for cap eating purpose.
There is another thread around about Thorax drone bay and blasters, grid etc flooding with posts.
Thorax, Deimos, Vigilant at least need either 120 PG boost or Blasters PG downgrade.
Right now if you fit Small weapons on Thorax you do a 20% more damage than INCURSUS!!!!!!! and still Incursus has 20-25% better tracking (from frig skill bonus).
That drops the damage difference down to 10-15% (if not less).
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Dred 'Morte
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Posted - 2005.08.24 12:56:00 -
[22]
Originally by: ThehappyOne
i think ur very very wrong, blasters are supsesd to be the most powerful gun in eve, so why should it have supior tracking than autos? also i dont think the pg or cpu should be lowerd so u can fit more of the powerful guns, about the cap thing ever heard of controlled burst? i think that all you haev stated is wrong and should be left how it is. heres a tip to slove you guns missing. fit a webber
First, controlled burst only decreases cap use by 25% at lvl 5, you think thats a lot? think twice. Second, i have tested a brutix with 7 heavy ion/neutron blasters on a few rats, i had another person tanking. The cap was gona very fast, controlled burst on lvl 5 wouldnt have helped. Second, i had target double webbed, and i only started hitting when my speed was below a third of maximun speed (without ab/mwd). Med blasters suck in evry way, and large blasters dont do enough damage, and FYO, i think projectilles in general, suck quite a lot too. its the missiles and lasers that are fine now (well, except maybe the Medium Beam which is using 16 pg when it should be 13 or 14..)
Signature made by Mr Floppykickners |
Dimitri Forgroth
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Posted - 2005.08.24 12:59:00 -
[23]
Originally by: ThehappyOne
about the cap thing ever heard of controlled burst?
Ever heard about rapid firing which completely counteracts that? 
Don't be a bad loser | DPS Spreadsheet |
Gabriel Karade
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Posted - 2005.08.24 13:00:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 24/08/2005 13:01:29
A Thorax with Medium electron II's is awesome, don't fall for the 'only 1600mm plate setup works'.
Edit: Nice video 
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) "That's no ordinary rabbit!...that's the most foul, cruel and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on" |
gfldex
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Posted - 2005.08.24 13:09:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Dred 'Morte
and i only started hitting when my speed was below a third of maximun speed (without ab/mwd).
You still underrun tracking of all other med guns. So why is that wrong?
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$ perl -e 'do not $fear and do not die;'
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ASIV TRE
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Posted - 2005.08.24 13:15:00 -
[26]
One assumes theres someone else tanking the damage in the pic of you against the BS's?
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The Merovingian
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Posted - 2005.08.24 13:16:00 -
[27]
Having read through the posts, I'm in two minds about the issue to be honest. I've got a Brutix setup with 5 medium Ion and a Nos for effect, and I can do a fair bit of damage with it. The problem with Gallente is that, in my opinion, you armour tank them, which means no low slots for weapon upgrades to boost your damage.
The thing with Gallente, if you read the race history, is that they're supposed to be really good at EW and one of the presiding factors over them winning the Gallente-Caldari war was their use of drones. Ok, so you caldari lovers will say "Yeah but how come we've got the most midslots". Remember that shield tanking needs midslots, armour tanking low slots, so with the free mids you can EW pretty well with most Gallente ships. Plus you get the drones which, with skills, I think more than counteracts the damage mods of the blasters.
EVE is all about balance. There is no Uber setup that you can use - you have to compromise. Having played the game for nearly two years, I've found no problems with Gallente close range warfare. Fit tracking computers, get Motion Prediction and Controlled bursts trained, along with Drones and drone efficiency, and Gallente ships with blasters pack a real punch.
What I will complain about is speed. Getting in close is the major problem with Gallente ships. I don't like using MWD on the BC because of the cap and shield drain, so I use T2 AB and even then it can be a struggle to get into range before the other guys blow you to hell. If anything, I'd say reduce the inertia mod on Gallente ships or make their base speed a little higher. Blasters with drones, as they stand, I think work ok.
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Kai Lae
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Posted - 2005.08.24 13:39:00 -
[28]
Issue is that they decreased the grid requirements on large weapons, but did nothing for mediums. On a side note the brutix just underperforms in every way, since it needs a module and burns cap to use it's bonus compared to the ferox or prophecy. Brutix needs more grid and the armor repair bonus boosted (cyclone is the same and could use a 8/5/3 layout).
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gfldex
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Posted - 2005.08.24 13:50:00 -
[29]
Originally by: ASIV TRE
One assumes theres someone else tanking the damage in the pic of you against the BS's?
Yes he is called warrior and there are 9 of him. Ever tried to hit a light drone with heavy or mega beams? And yes, you just made a fool of yourself. :)
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$ perl -e 'do not $fear and do not die;'
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.24 14:25:00 -
[30]
"rax with t2 light neutrons and 1600mm plate and med repper
or:
rax with t2 heavy electrons and 800mm t2 plate and small repper.
Obvious choice is 1. Reason is: t2 small guns do almost same dmg as t2 heavy electrons with 25% dmg bonus from ship skill. Now go figure."
Dammit can we stop spreading silly rumours? >.<;;
light neutron blaster II: 20.59 dps
heavy electron blaster II with Thorax bonus: 30.80 dps
yup, that's 50% difference in damage... anyone who consider this "almost the same" please go and shoot yourself with civilian gatling ;.;
(i won't go into if it's worth to give up the oversized plate for that sort of damage increase, as it's another story altogether... just please don't say silly things that people then go and start repeating :/
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