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Gosakumori Noh
Viziam Amarr Empire
162
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 21:57:00 -
[31] - Quote
Scherezad wrote:Congratulations to the Federal Navy, her governing body, and her allies. You have accomplished that which you had set out to do. Regardless of my position, this is worthy of acclaim.
Impeccably dignified to a fault(...line, little joke!), Schere sweetie!
I'm so glad that you weren't kidnapped last night. As I was entangled with my bunny boy on his trip from Providence to Jita, I could swear that at one point it seemed like you ended up in a pod and at another fired off a distress beacon from inside someone else's ship. Slightly prior to that, I thought I saw a Revenant de-cloak outside Cynthia's brothel and send space tentacles through the walls. Clearly, there is such a thing as too much Mummy Dust after all. |
Caellach Marellus
Aideron Technologies
760
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 22:03:00 -
[32] - Quote
Desiderya wrote:It is rather commonplace to express the interest about offering negotiations before being able to actually start them.
Interest sure, but immediate expectations are somewhat unfair. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Ereka Nihil
Green Mountain
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 22:10:00 -
[33] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Well, this Patriot spent the last hours before he rejoins the CEWPA war evacuating your people off the planet that your Navy was stupid enough to drop a Titan on. I'm stunned by your assertion.
I mean, really, the FedNav is to blame for the titan dropping onto Caldari Prime? After the State brought it in, dropped it to low orbit, and begun attacking surface targets? After threatening the population of Caldari and Gallente Prime for the better part of a decade with its superweapon?
I can't take any more of this. If you, of all people on the Caldari side, are unwilling to face reality, there's no hope at all for the State. Hopefully it can be destroyed or changed for the better before it takes the Caldari people down with it.
Mekhana wrote:Really? Because you were using the lives of Gallente citizens that way for many years.
Luminaire VII is just a rock and rightfully part of Federation territory as it is within the Luminaire system.
So tell me, how does it feel? Hey, if you really want peace, knock off the smug attitude. Rubbing salt in the wound is a bad idea if you're going to have to come to the negotiating table with the same people in the future. |
Tiber Brucato
The Voidstalker Heresy
3
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 22:24:00 -
[34] - Quote
So long as the State insists on being a threat to Federal security there will be no permanent peace for Caldari Prime. A faction doesn't allow a hostile force an enclave within its own borders. Fate has seen fit to lock the Gallente and Caldari people together by virtue of proximity. To try and deny their connection to each other is madness. Peace will be achieved once the rightful order has been restored - once the Caldari and Gallente people begin working together again. Some people say that reintegration of the State into the Federation is the answer - I don't think that will work. Both empires will have to come to peaceful terms with each other and learn to share. Share space, share famine and plenty, and share the common destiny the children of Luminaire have in store. |
Simon Louvaki
Sengokuvaa Kaltiovon
372
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 22:55:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ereka Nihil wrote:
I mean, really, the FedNav is to blame for the titan dropping onto Caldari Prime? After the State brought it in, dropped it to low orbit, and begun attacking surface targets? After threatening the population of Caldari and Gallente Prime for the better part of a decade with its superweapon?
I can't take any more of this. If you, of all people on the Caldari side, are unwilling to face reality, there's no hope at all for the State. Hopefully it can be destroyed or changed for the better before it takes the Caldari people down with it.
There had been no attacks on surface targets, and you'll be hard pressed to come up with any evidence to the contrary. Not even in the ensuing battle did she unleash warheads on ground targets and to suggest otherwise is either a misunderstanding or outright lie.
Threats were certainly made, but there was no action. No matter what side were on the facts need to be made crystal. At worst there was intent to fire, but you can't prosecute what someone supposedly planned to do if it isn't followed up by action.
To further that, security forces engaged on the ground prior to the Federations fleet maneuver can be confirmed as being under the employ of the Federal Defense Union and in direct violation of Caldari sovereignty. Chest beating and propaganda aside, Admiral Yanala was acting within full jurisdiction of Caldari law and enacting a very basic military maneuver to support Caldari forces engaged on the ground. Capusleers are too focused on the priming of the Oblivion super weapon to let logic chase away their preconceptions of what was happening.
I cannot imagine that had this been a Gallentee warship in orbit that they would not do the same exact same thing. While support fire doesn't involve the priming of a doomsday weapon, its certainly a valid precautionary move when you have good reason to suspect an enemy fleet is heading your way.
I'm sick of this blame game and it's getting old. The real blame lays on the situation perpetuated by events most of us had no hope or possibility of influencing.
What most of us witnessed [I do not know if you were there Ms. Nihil] was an strategic (and planned) invasion of Caldari sovereign space by Federation Naval and Ground force with the intent of reconquest of Home.
Actions that followed above and on our homeworld were to the tune of that song. This is the reality of the situation and we should be thankful that Admiral Yanala didn't carry out her orders when she had the opportunity, because the reality of yesterdays events is that this action was a provocation of the promise Heth issued when we retook Home the first time. The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word.
- The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21 |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
598
|
Posted - 2013.03.23 23:24:00 -
[36] - Quote
Ereka Nihil wrote: I'm stunned by your assertion.
I mean, really, the FedNav is to blame for the titan dropping onto Caldari Prime? After the State brought it in, dropped it to low orbit, and begun attacking surface targets? After threatening the population of Caldari and Gallente Prime for the better part of a decade with its superweapon?
I can't take any more of this. If you, of all people on the Caldari side, are unwilling to face reality, there's no hope at all for the State. Hopefully it can be destroyed or changed for the better before it takes the Caldari people down with it.
The Titan had been there five years without firing. It's firing was to be triggered only by an attack on it by the Federation Navy. They attacked and, despite many warnings and ample time and resources, the Titan did not fire. I repeat, it did not fire so much as a single tactical cruise missile strike.
At some point someone here is going to do the maths. I won't claim that Admiral Yanala's orders weren't to fire on the planet - but if those orders were real and not some political gambit, they were NOT carried out. And they weren't prevented by the Federal Navy, either.
To address your other issue, if you wake up this morning to find me a little radicalised in the light of yesterday's events, you should ask yourself what precipitated this seachange and whether that, too, oughtn't to have been a factor when things were being planned. |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
1026
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 00:43:00 -
[37] - Quote
I am on balance forced to agree. While I am strongly opposed to capital bombardment of inhabited worlds anyway - and especially of Doomsdaying a temperate world, and especially Home - ultimately we have to accept that the only reason that ever became a possibility was a combination of a foolhardy CONCORD commander throwing his weight around rather than going through proper channels, and more importantly of FedNav exploiting the opening that incident created.
The trigger-happy admiral who created that incident was appointed because of ongoing violence on the surface. Violence that on the weight of evidence was more than just armed civil unrest. Modern Caldari high-rise buildings don't fall down just because a mob of angry civvies were chanting at it.
I'm no demolitions expert.... but I AM worth several billion ISK, which means that the expertise of a demolitions expert is at my fingertips regardless. I am informed in no uncertain terms that bringing a building like that down in the manner it came down requires precision placement of high-explosive. This wasn't just a case of shoving five thousand kilograms of ammonium nitrate in a sub-baasement and running, and even had it been it takes serious planning, preparation and manpower to launch an operation like that. All of those things are risk factors which expose the operation to potential discovery, and the only counter to that is experience, training and resources.
Throw in the reported fact that DUST mercs are operating down there under the banner of the FDU (or FEDEF as they're calling it now) and have been since before the assault on the Shiigeru and the only conclusion I can draw is that the FIO have been at work down there laying the ground for this day, probably for months. Which suggests given president Roden's stated views on the matter of Home, that this has been an ongoing executive project quite probably since he first took office.
It all comes back down to what is effectively theft. the Federation can bang on about security threats and so on all it likes, but it all comes back to the fact that the Caldari quit the Federation, were bombed off our homeworld, and ever since that moment the Federation has repeatedly refused to pursue the most obvious and effective avenue for reconciliation.
I'll reserve my opinions on the cultural psychology of why this should be the case for now. Suffice it to say that this is just a resurgent symptom of the same old disease and no matter what questionable decisions may have been made on the Caldari side, the biggest of our problems to solve remains that the Federation's government simply is not willing to recognize our rights as a culture.
And let's not forget - this government is democratically elected, which supposedly mean that it reflects the collective will and opinion of its people. If that is not the case, then I suggest that the time has come for the citizens of the Federation to demonstrate that their vaunted system of democratic representation actually works. It's either that or the system DOES work An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Caellach Marellus
Aideron Technologies
762
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 02:47:00 -
[38] - Quote
It seems people's chronological orders are slightly out of sync.
The first order to carry out an Oblivion strike against the surface came before the Federal Navy responce fleet and before Brigadier General Odo Korachi arrived on the field and was shot down. This was in responce to the situation on the ground and was only cancelled at the 11th hour due to the fact the State forces started to take the ground war.
A second attack was ordered again before the Federal Navy fleet engaged the field due to the loss of planetside communication as a direct responce using what were now outdated co-ordinates due to a lack of current time uplink from the ground forces, this was put on stand down because communication was re-instated.
So to say the strike was in responce to the Federal Navy is false. As to the presence of Federal forces on the ground, no doubt we'll establish a timeline of their exact deployment at some point, and no doubt the FIO statement will say something on the lines of "As a responce to CPD forces engaging civilians" as a convenient coverup.
Furthermore, the people elected Roden on his policy of removing the potential threat the Shiigaru posed. What he plans to do next wasn't exactly covered in his manifesto, though you'll forgive my cynicism at the notion of an arms dealer striving for peace. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Tiber Brucato
The Voidstalker Heresy
3
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 03:24:00 -
[39] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:it all comes back to the fact that the Caldari quit the Federation, were bombed off our homeworld, and ever since that moment the Federation has repeatedly refused to pursue the most obvious and effective avenue for reconciliation.
You forgot Nouvelle Rouvenor in that timeline. |
Caellach Marellus
Aideron Technologies
762
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 03:46:00 -
[40] - Quote
Tiber Brucato wrote:Stitcher wrote:it all comes back to the fact that the Caldari quit the Federation, were bombed off our homeworld, and ever since that moment the Federation has repeatedly refused to pursue the most obvious and effective avenue for reconciliation. You forgot Nouvelle Rouvenor in that timeline.
Also forgot the Caldari army flattenining Gallente ethnic towns and villages prior to that. But history is all too often told with preferences in mind when it comes to remembering which facts you want to relay. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
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Tiber Brucato
The Voidstalker Heresy
4
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 04:01:00 -
[41] - Quote
Oh, and the internment of Federal citizens into confinement centers to be kept as a potential collective human shield. |
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
207
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 04:19:00 -
[42] - Quote
Eric 'Swiftmind' Siraron wrote: If any mistakes were made, it was by the Administration not the military. Indeed. For all the abhorrent rhetoric that was thrown around, it wasn't the navy that put a titan there, and it wasn't the navy that had her shot down. The military is a tool for the government. The brave men and women in those navies are to be commended for their commitment to their nations, but the leaders who have improperly wielded them have acted shamefully, and thier actions should not go unchallenged.Stitcher wrote:Throw in the reported fact that DUST mercs are operating down there under the banner of the FDU (or FEDEF as they're calling it now) and have been since before the assault on the Shiigeru and the only conclusion I can draw is that the FIO have been at work down there laying the ground for this day, probably for months. Which suggests given president Roden's stated views on the matter of Home, that this has been an ongoing executive project quite probably since he first took office.
This is one of the things that has me most annoyed about the current situation. Through the entire incident, the admiral of the Federation Fleet kept spewing lies about their intentions for the planet. The claim that was made was that the fleet was there for the Titan, and while that was certainly ONE of the objectives, the overall goal of the operation as a whole was to land and support troops on the surface of Caldari prime.
This is not a special operation highly secret and classified. it was a straight up fight, so to lie and try to hide your intentions is reprehensible and would seem to indicate a lack of integrity.
Don't **** in my ear and tell me it's raining. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
1194
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 05:05:00 -
[43] - Quote
Mekhana wrote:Congratulations to the Federation Navy for their victory against tyranny.
Wait, Roden and Blaque are dead?
Live Events are neither. |
Caellach Marellus
Aideron Technologies
762
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 05:07:00 -
[44] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote: Through the entire incident, the admiral of the Federation Fleet kept spewing lies about their intentions for the planet. The claim that was made was that the fleet was there for the Titan, and while that was certainly ONE of the objectives, the overall goal of the operation as a whole was to land and support troops on the surface of Caldari prime.
This is not a special operation highly secret and classified. it was a straight up fight, so to lie and try to hide your intentions is reprehensible and would seem to indicate a lack of integrity.
Don't **** in my ear and tell me it's raining.
The troops were already fighting on Caldari Prime before the Federal fleet showed up to engage the Leviathan. Neither side supported the ground efforts directly while the engagement was ongoing, and the Federal fleet left within hours of cleaning the State from the field. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
609
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 05:36:00 -
[45] - Quote
I remember watching the SURVIVING Moros class ships fleeing the field after the main meat of the engagement was over, yes.
If Concord hadn't removed their suspect flags, I doubt they would have made it. |
Hans Nardieu
Federal Nationalist Party
42
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 06:39:00 -
[46] - Quote
A long overdue return to normalcy. Col. Hans Nardieu (ret.) Chairman, National Party of the Federated Union of Gallente Prime Office of the Party Headquarters, Villore VII-6 Senate Bureau Station |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
1029
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 08:06:00 -
[47] - Quote
Tiber Brucato wrote:You forgot Nouvelle Rouvenor in that timeline.
With all appropriate sympathy and respect for the dead of Nouvelle Rouvenor, the sustained orbital bombardment far exceeded that bombing in scale, death toll, human misery and echelon of approval. NR was an extremist minority - the bombardment was Federal government policy with popular backing.
If the war was an avalanche, then NR was the night's snowfall that finally set off all that accumulated weight of snow that had been building up for some time.
Small crimes don't warrant the death penalty. there is no crime anywhere ever that warrants genocide in my opinion. Genocide, however, was one of the two acceptable outcomes for the Federation back then, the other being compliance.
this is entirely symptomatic of the problem that exists between us, however. Whenever the Caldari dare to claim that we have been wronged, the immediate response is "well you're not completely innocent either."
The difference in scale is akin to telling somebody who was beaten unconscious by a mob and had their possessions stolen that there will be no investigation into the assault because they were convicted for possessing a controlled substance as a teenager. Our grievances are valid no matter the existence of our own shortcomings. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
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Mekhana
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
827
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 10:02:00 -
[48] - Quote
I don't expect any of you to understand but I made this thread to honor what I consider heroes to me.
People that gone above and beyond the call of duty and followed the orders that were given to them and completed them with as much professionalism and ability it was possible for them at the time.
The Federation Navy had been a slump for far too long this victory is a tremendous boost to their morale. A well deserved boost.
I don't expect any of you to agree with me either ideologically or politically but if you don't have anything nice to say or productive to share I ask that you stop commenting in this thread.
The old apologetic and bitter responses that I get from Caldari capsuleers here in IGS are all too commonplace. All you do is embaress yourselves with your childish and spoiled attitudes. As much you people enjoy judging me I have the emotional maturity to at least to know the place I should stay quiet.
I can't and neither will stop you from whining and making yourselves look bad and I won't even reply to you as I did not make this thread worrying about public opinion, much less about the opinion of my enemies. Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas!-á |
Arkenai Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
440
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 10:47:00 -
[49] - Quote
Mekhana wrote:I don't expect any of you to understand but I made this thread to honor what I consider heroes to me.
People that gone above and beyond the call of duty and followed the orders that were given to them and completed them with as much professionalism and ability it was possible for them at the time.
The Federation Navy had been a slump for far too long this victory is a tremendous boost to their morale. A well deserved boost.
A lot of people are upset that they lost their favourite titan. What people are failing to realize is that CN Shiigeru was going to execute countless innocents and it was the intervention of the Federation Navy that prevented this. The Gallente are blameless for all civilian casualties resulting from the titan wreckage crashing near Arcurio - Arcurio is a primarily Gallente city and it was going to be glassed. Had the Federation not intervened, there would be far more casualties.
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Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
209
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 11:00:00 -
[50] - Quote
You do realize her positioning was a result of Federation actions planetside don't you? Whether the orders were right or wrong, you are fooling yourself if you try to claim the State instigated the chain of events that lead to this.
Heth's actions are reprehensible, but the Gallente share the blame for landing troops and instigating terrorist acts on the surface. The Federation is equally responsible for their efforts in escalating the conflict. |
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Arkenai Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
441
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 11:07:00 -
[51] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:You do realize her positioning was a result of Federation actions planetside don't you? Whether the orders were right or wrong, you are fooling yourself if you try to claim the State instigated the chain of events that lead to this.
Heth's actions are reprehensible, but the Gallente share the blame for landing troops and instigating terrorist acts on the surface. The Federation is equally responsible for their efforts in escalating the conflict.
Escalating the conflict? The conflict that the Caldari State clearly started when they put a titan in orbit of a Gallente planet? In an entirely unprovoked attack on an empire that has been at peace for two hundred years? CN Shiigeru was preparing to glass civilians. The Federation Navy could not stand by and do nothing when many, many millions of their people were at risk. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
611
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 11:09:00 -
[52] - Quote
Mekhana wrote:The old apologetic and bitter responses that I get from Caldari capsuleers here in IGS are all too commonplace. All you do is embaress yourselves with your childish and spoiled attitudes. As much you people enjoy judging me I have the emotional maturity to at least to know the place I should stay quiet.
This is a lie, every single life lost on Caldari Prime has featured your ghoulish rictus grin above your endlessly rubbing hands as you've wallowed in any scrap of pain that could be inflicted. That said, if this marks a new policy of yours, then I'll reciprocate by absenting myself from this thread in future. |
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
209
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 11:48:00 -
[53] - Quote
Arkenai Wyrnspire wrote:Xindi Kraid wrote:You do realize her positioning was a result of Federation actions planetside don't you? Whether the orders were right or wrong, you are fooling yourself if you try to claim the State instigated the chain of events that lead to this.
Heth's actions are reprehensible, but the Gallente share the blame for landing troops and instigating terrorist acts on the surface. The Federation is equally responsible for their efforts in escalating the conflict. Escalating the conflict? The conflict that the Caldari State clearly started when they put a titan in orbit of a Gallente planet? In an entirely unprovoked attack on an empire that has been at peace for two hundred years? CN Shiigeru was preparing to glass civilians. The Federation Navy could not stand by and do nothing when many, many millions of their people were at risk. No the Gallente Started it two hundred years ago when they bombed our civilians and attacked our evacuating transports, then tried to claim Caldari prime themselves.
If I recall correctly, Caldari Prime was signed over to the State by your President Foirtran a few year ago. Recently Federation troops and mercenaries employed by the Federation were landed on Caldari prime which is State property by your own nation's declaration. Said landing of troops garnered a response. Had those troops not been sent, and had the Federation not incited and sponsored civil unrest there would have been no reason for naval forces to do anything. The threats made by Heth are abhorrent, but the Gallente directly incited that chain of events.
and before you try and claim that was always the plan for Heth to orbitally bombard civilians please bear this in mind: Heth is a madman but he is not stupid. He would never get away with doing something like that over random acts of violence. even the most hardliner Caldari would turn against him. When the Gallente escalated things, they skewed public opinion so any actions he takes become GOOD PR for him.
Stop throwing fuel on the fire damnit. Heth has lots of matches. |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
2311
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 11:53:00 -
[54] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:If I recall correctly, Caldari Prime was signed over to the State by your President Foirtran a few year ago. At gunpoint, no less. Mane 614
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Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
209
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 12:00:00 -
[55] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Xindi Kraid wrote:If I recall correctly, Caldari Prime was signed over to the State by your President Foirtran a few year ago. At gunpoint, no less. The Federation only had that world because THEY took it from US at gunpoint FIRST.
You know what though? Our retaking of our home planet didn't involve us bombing your home planet for months on end. |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
2311
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 12:11:00 -
[56] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:The Federation only had that world because THEY took it from US at gunpoint FIRST.
You know what though? Our retaking of our home planet didn't involve us bombing your home planet for months on end. Given what we saw on Friday, one suspects it's only because there was a CONCORD around to stop them. Mane 614
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Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
209
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 12:13:00 -
[57] - Quote
NO, you know what. I am tired of talking to a wall. In the face of undisputed facts you refuse to believe the truth that the Federations actions were just as wrong and just as reprehensible, and are just as responsible for the current events as our own. You also show a complete disregard to your own past.
But no, apparently you still cling to the belief that your vaunted Federation can do no wrong. They always stand for truth and liberty and never their own petty personal interests; they're too superbly superhuman and perfect to have petty human weaknesses. It MUST be somebody else's fault. |
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
209
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 12:18:00 -
[58] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Xindi Kraid wrote:The Federation only had that world because THEY took it from US at gunpoint FIRST.
You know what though? Our retaking of our home planet didn't involve us bombing your home planet for months on end. Given what we saw on Friday, one suspects it's only because there was a CONCORD around to stop them. Read your goddamn history books once and a while.
When State forces retook Caldari Prime, CONCORD was NOT around to stop them from doing anything. |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
2311
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 12:50:00 -
[59] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:Read your goddamn history books once and a while.
When State forces retook Caldari Prime, CONCORD was NOT around to stop them from doing anything. Yes, but only for one day. A months-long bombing campaign can't happen in a day. Mane 614
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Caellach Marellus
Aideron Technologies
768
|
Posted - 2013.03.24 13:20:00 -
[60] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:I remember watching the SURVIVING Moros class ships fleeing the field after the main meat of the engagement was over, yes.
If Concord hadn't removed their suspect flags, I doubt they would have made it.
Sure, however you wish to word it to heal your bruised ego. Considering that those ships weren't at risk of you shooting them, it's odd to word it as fleeing though.
That would be like saying how you fled the scene afterwards yourselves. The Caldari fleet had been removed from the field, they had no further reason to stay.
This type of chest-beating and posturing is the arrogant ego-driven attitude that started this mess.
And while we're going on the back and forth about the original war, both sides attacked civilian populaces. Be it from the army on the ground or from Navy strikes in orbit, trying to use this to win an argument is ignorant at best, hypocritical and callous at worst.
Neither side was innocent here, the sooner people accept the faults their side did rather than all this pointless chest beating and flag waving the better. Enjoy your gaming.
http://northern-goblin.blogspot.com |
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