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Kish
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Posted - 2003.07.25 08:23:00 -
[1]
hi there,
Being fairly new to Eve(3 weeks) and having read some of the posts opposing traders to pirates i must admit i dont really understand the problems most peeps have with pirates.
As this is a PvP game as well as an economic simulation it is clear that the 2 sides (traders and pirates)would and will collide ; but what the heck, this makes the whole thing interesting.
Otherwise i could play monopoly with my grandma....
I understand there are griefers out there so what, every game has and will have its griefers; can't change that. But i dont see the point in flaming "honest" pirates (im not one (yet)) in every post and comparing them to griefers and exploiters.
If they chose to make money by pirating, fine, their risk, their fun eventually their problem if hunted by well organised corps ..
If u chose to make ur money by trading or mining, again, ur choice ur fun(or not)ur mininmal safety risk...
EVE lets u play how u want, lets u chose ur personal approach to the game; if u wanna be safe and cozy so be it and stay in 1.0 space but dont complain about the PvP aspect of the game (it was clearly marked on the box); if u wanna play the game as a whole accept the risks involved and enjoy the possible diversity of EVE.
Only my 2 cents.
(and yes ive lost 1 cruiser and a frigate to pirates; those accidents were a major drawback but im on my feet again and running  )
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" Do me a favor and die " |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.25 08:29:00 -
[2]
Don't take the miners/traders/pirates/griefers flamings* seriously.
I certainly don't.
Glad to hear you're enjoying yourself. Chin up, and all that.
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Riddari
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Posted - 2003.07.25 12:24:00 -
[3]
I think a part of the problem is that pirates were meant to be a fringe group in EVE.
Those players that went that path seem to have mostly thought that they would become "the bad guys" versus the "good guys" who can do **** all to defend themselves (traders). Nota bene mostly.. not all.
The reality of EVE however is that PVP will largely be in the Corporation Wars. The Pirates that were forced into the fringes of EVE space (as is quite natural... not many pirates opperate in the English Channel do they now, mostly in the China Sea) are now really annoyed that they are stuck there and really really want to get back to the civilization that they themselves turned their backs on.
I have no problem with pirates in the 0.0 space, my problem is them demanding to be allowed into 0.+ zones.
Also the most lucrative trades in RL are either very legal and very safe (electronic, cars etc) or very illegal and very risky (narcotics).
So far traders in EVE are doing the very safe and very legal robotics and other routes. Very normal but the pirates really don't like it since they *rightly* can't interfere.
When the drug runs start however.. the traders will have to evade both Concord and PC pirates.. they will risk their ships, capital and merchandise against high profits.
Problem? There is no problem as long as pirates are in 0.0 and accept the fact that it is their rightful place.
¼©¼
a history |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.25 12:39:00 -
[4]
not to pick a fight or anything, Riddari, but as of yesterdays patch, pirates are now allowed back in the lower security parts of the empires. So I'm guessing this is CCP trying to return to their original plan. |
Wrangler
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Posted - 2003.07.25 12:42:00 -
[5]
They are allowed in the lower sec empire space, but can they pirate there? Was the sentry guns removed?
[Read the Rules!] - [Email the Moderators] |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.25 13:11:00 -
[6]
Being a freshman pirate (and still moving all my posessions atm) I cannot confirm or deny these ideas I have. I only go by what I've picked up off the various IRC channels.
So if I'm incorrect, and it's a travel permit only, you will have to forgive me.
And regarding the narcotics thing: There are currently no narcotics, so the next best people to extort money from are robo-traders. Sadly, they are kept out of reach of the pirates, while people do things that help others (rather than just themselves), like mining and NPC hunting are placed in danger, for far, far less profit.
The only alternative to putting PC pirates back in the way of the most expensive trade runs, is to put better NPC pirates at the gates. They have been of little concern to me since about my second week. After the fourth week, you can totally ignore them, as you'll be in a cruiser, or a well rigged indy anyway.
As Viceroy said : "risk vs reward" - it's the basis upon which all things are built.
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Kish
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Posted - 2003.07.25 13:48:00 -
[7]
I dont have a problem with pirates allowed to enter some 0+ systems as long as concord, sentry guns and whatever else respond to the pirate actions quickly enough. Blockading in 0.0 is ok, i wouldn't accept it in a 0.3 or higher...
Pirates should be a fringe group that relies on quick raids into empire space fully knowing that police action will be taken in some set time....
as for what sec. systems pirates are now allowed in according to their sec status, well its for them to find out and maybe tell us
(i dont really expect an answer there)
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" Do me a favor and die " |
Molly
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Posted - 2003.07.25 14:02:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Molly on 25/07/2003 14:15:09
"not to pick a fight or anything, Riddari, but as of yesterdays patch, pirates are now allowed back in the lower security parts of the empires. So I'm guessing this is CCP trying to return to their original plan."
Sadly this patch note doesn't say anything real useful, pirates have been able to travel in empire space all the time.
Likewise, autopilot hasn't been fixed.
Killing an empty escape pod to get a bounty was never an exploit, but a bug and so on.
History repeats, maybe the next patch notes will be accurate.
---
"Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so?
Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor?
Molly > lol
Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships" |
Nibarlan
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Posted - 2003.07.25 14:05:00 -
[9]
no guns were not removed, their everywhere now, .1 and up, it realy sucks(I'm not a pirate but I still think it sux)
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In space no one can hear you scream...unless you scream on the radio, then everybody on that channel can hear you...but only if your in a ship, because they wouldn't hear you if you were in space and screamed into the radio
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Molly
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Posted - 2003.07.25 14:10:00 -
[10]
There are not everywhere. Not in 1.0 systems at the gates, where the active tracking repsonse of the police forces is the slowest, which means that if someone with a negative security rating travels through 1.0 police will take the LONGEST time to appear and to attack that person.
So basicly best place to gank someone is one of the interegion hubs at a gate where the begining players are supposed to be safe.
Wtg CCP.
---
"Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so?
Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor?
Molly > lol
Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships" |
Larry Wall
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Posted - 2003.07.25 15:50:00 -
[11]
I would watch my back if I were a pirate in 1.0 space. If past experience is any indication, CCP loves to spring surprises on people exploiting their oversights. It's like they don't enjoy being embarrassed or something.
One of these patches we might just see CONCORD "accidentally" collecting the bounty on Lord Zap at the Yulai gate.
Larry Wall
Not quite suffering from deep space dementia yet...
...but will if he doesn't get back to...
...a system without number or dash in the name soon... |
Ivanav Soulsteal
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Posted - 2003.07.25 17:19:00 -
[12]
Kish, the problem is one of semantics.
See pirates were supposed to be not just a fringe group but an alternative to give those that want to play this Teamplay based game with out being a team player. It was never intended to be the main form of play it has become today.
If you hit an NPC caravan to steal itÆs loot what are you? Exactly a pirate. Originally the idea was that a player or small group of players could pirate the NPC convoys and thus gave those that did not want to participate in Corp Wars, mine, trade to hunt bounty hunt some targets.
The problem is that players found it easer to hit other players then to start a sanctioned war. So they decided to call themselves pirates in order to try and bring some legitimacy to their actions. This is like the team killers claming to be spies in CS or other team based games. They want all the benefits of any oversights in the game but refuse to take any responsibility for their actions.
So if you want to be a pirate, be careful not to get to close to the base guns when you hit the caravans. If you want to be a terrorist, remember to put on your ôI be a Pirateö tee shirt so you can try and convince people .
And so it begins.... |
Molly
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Posted - 2003.07.25 17:22:00 -
[13]
Ivanav Soulsteal you have posted another stupid carebear post.
The name Hereos for Hire says it all.
---
"Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so?
Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor?
Molly > lol
Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships" |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.25 17:29:00 -
[14]
Ivanav, try not to make such broad generalisations, they do nothing but spark off flaming.
If you really can't see the difference between piracy, and flat-out murder, then I'll understand the mistake.
But surely you don't think that anyone whose security rating drops is a psycho killer?
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.07.25 17:30:00 -
[15]
New name for trolling:
Mollying.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Guardian334
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Posted - 2003.07.25 17:35:00 -
[16]
/agree Joshua
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.07.25 17:37:00 -
[17]
 Quote:
The problem is that players found it easer to hit other players then to start a sanctioned war. So they decided to call themselves pirates in order to try and bring some legitimacy to their actions. This is like the team killers claming to be spies in CS or other team based games. They want all the benefits of any oversights in the game but refuse to take any responsibility for their actions.
Related to Athren Soulsteal aren't you? As in alt...
Let me ask you something. If what you say is true, then why all the bother with a broken security system? Why have Concord, personal security rating and system security ratings? Why not just make it real simple, the same way all other games have, and not put in PvP unless certain conditions were met or you were in an arena?
You're overindulging in wishful thinking. Piracy on players by players was intended. That's why Concord, personal security ratings and solar system security ratings exist: to limit the depredations of the player pirates on the rest of the populace. Otherwise it would have been far more simpler to only allow 1 player to harm another player when involved in a Corp War or in an arena solarsystem.
And before you say something furbearing like "0.0 space is the intended areas", you don't need 3/4ths the size of the game world as an arena for the people in the remaining 1/4th. Stop deluding yourself with the falsehood that piracy was a mistake. Or you will suffer all the more as it continues to happen. And suffer even more so if you do get involved in a real corp war and discover that pirates are a minor nuisance by comparison
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
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