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Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
16
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Posted - 2011.10.15 13:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Capsuleers of the Summit,
I am pleased to announce the formation of a new corporation. Imperial Outlaws [I.LAW] has officially commenced operations on the Amarr/Minmatar warfront, as a member of the Amarr faction. We are dedicated to furthering the interests of the Amarr Empire, and also to aiding our allies, the Caldari militia. Some of our members are likely known to you: Eran Mintor, Shalee Lianne, Almity, and others who have served ably on the front lines in the past. I am sure there are questions that will likely be asked, and I will humbly answer those that I can.
Ryven Krennel I.LAW Diplomat |
Tiberious Thessalonia
Majesty Theological Institute
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 13:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
Majesty Theological Institute wishes you God's blessing in your endeavors, and maintaines hope that you are able to maintain your honor, dignity, and faith through an often trying and difficult war. |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
16
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 13:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thank you, Tiberius, for your kind words. The concepts of honor, dignity, and faith are concepts that can never be esteemed too highly. |
Lyn Farel
Extropian Technologies
17
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 15:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
What are your stances on the political statu quo, offensive movements in Minmatar sovereign space, the status of Intaki, offensive movements in Gallente sovereign space, piracy, and privateering ? |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
16
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 16:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ms. Farel, I expected I would hear from you. I also expected you would skip lesser niceties to go straight to the "landmine" issues. While this is not necessarily polite, it is not terribly surprising. So, how do I answer? [I.LAW] has just been formed. As for our "stance" on all of these issues? I can't make an official statement on all of them. So, I will make what statements I can.
1) The political status quo: I suspect that the political status quo could care less what we think of it. The factions are locked in a tepid conflict with only slight gains to any one side at any given time. This could go on indefinitely. Nonetheless, we intend to support our Empire and our allies.
2) Offensive movements in Minmatar Space: This is a silly question. This is a war. The Minmatar are in OUR sovereign space right this moment. Why the hell wouldn't we be in theirs? The Minmatar attack targets in Amarr space all the time, even in the Throne Worlds themselves. Who is complaining about us operating in their territory?
3) Offensive movements in Gallente Space: This is akin to the above question. However, it is a tricky one, is it not? So, allow me to say this: Not long ago, the Gallente militia invaded Amarr sovereign territory in large numbers. Specifically, the corporation Quantum Cats [QCATS]. They weren't terribly successful, but, nonetheless, they violated Amarrian sovereignty in conducting attacks on our militia in our space. Naturally, we are not going to shy away from returning the favor.
4) Status of Intaki? Really? What does this have to do with anything? Truthfully, I am not up to date on their situation. If you would like to educate me on the subject, you can always send me some literature detailing why this should matter to me and what effect, if any, the Intaki situation has on our operations.
5) Piracy: Piracy is a word with an amorphous and often shifting definition. What actually equates to piracy? I suspect, Lyn, that you still have the same very rigid definition of piracy as before, and will likely disagree with me on just what we're discussing here. Thus, I would suggest you define "piracy" before I talk about it at length. I can say that [I.LAW] does not consider itself a pirate organization nor do we condone acts of piracy.
6) Privateering: Again, a very vague word. Perhaps you can more clearly define what you consider to be privateering so I understand what it is you are actually asking.
As a personal aside, I am glad to see you are doing well, Ms. Farel. You're still asking the tough questions, and that's also encouraging.
Ryven Krennel |
Lyn Farel
Extropian Technologies
17
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 16:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mr Krennel,
Firstly I must thank you for your answers, even if I definitly did not ask for you to explain yourself : I merely asked for clarifications. I must apologize if my message sounded like an inquiry or accusation.
I am also sorry that it offended you and maybe it was not polite enough. Actually, there are very few militia corporations to whom I would even ask this question, and even fewer that actually present themselves here on the IGS. Why I would not even ask them the same thing is simply because I already know the answers. In your case, and I perfectly acknowledge it was not obvious, please consider it actually a mark of esteem to your image and integrity.
Now then, I have not forgotten the personnal and different stances of all of you on the matters at hand, but this does not mean that this new corporation automatically follow the same principles, thus my question.
________________
Besides that, as you felt the need to justify yourself by replying with questions, and if you do not mind, I will try to answer.
I am sorry that you think my question about offensive movements in Minmatar Space is silly. Maybe it would have been in a total war, yes, but in this proxy war, I do believe that it is a valid one. And, as much as the Minmatar attack you, the Empire also attacks them. And this does not just limit to the war itself. I think you may miss the bigger picture.
For QCATS, I must assume that you follow the "an eye for an eye" doctrine if you are looking to return them the favor, then. Do not forget that you only have two eyes in the equation, and might end up blind very soon that way.
Concerning Intaki, as you stated that you intend to help your Caldari allies, Intaki might actually well get into the equation, as it has always been one of the central points of their side of the conflict. If you really help or support the Caldari, and depending on the Caldari group you help on that matter, your actions will have an impact on Intaki without any doubt, whatever side you choose.
I agree that Piracy is a poor term. This is why I added privateering. What I consider privateering is for example several of very discutable very hostile actions that have been codoned and enforced by both the Knighthood and PIE Inc several months ago, against neutral NRDS entities.
Then again, I am sorry if I offended you.
Best regards, Farel. |
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
121
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 17:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
May I ask what makes you outlaws? |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
16
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 17:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
To Mr. Sadik, Honestly, the name is pretty much an aesthetic touch. Makes us sound roguish. As far as I can tell, that is all it takes to name a corporation these days.
To Ms. Farel, I am sorry you feel I was offended. This is not the case. I forget that light hearted banter is lost in translation. Still, this thread is intended to be introductory. A lot of our rules, views, and such are still emergent. As such, I am reluctant to engage in an in depth discussion at this time. I did, however, feel you deserved an answer of some sort, incomplete as it is. |
Graelyn
Wolfsbrigade
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 22:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
That's quite a roster of names you have.
I wish you the best, and hope to fight well alongside your forces.
Fly Strong. + Cardinal Graelyn +
Owner/Operator, "The Summit"
|
Seriphyn Inhonores
Eleutherian Guard
15
|
Posted - 2011.10.15 23:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ah, the good Arkady Sadik beat me to it. An aesthetically-named organization...like a military unit from a holoreel. Fair enough. |
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Gottii
Lutinari Syndicate Electus Matari
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 00:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
We'll update our red list accordingly. |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
16
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 02:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
I am going to say a few more things regarding the subjects that have come up so far:
Gottii: Okay, figured as much.
Seriphyn: Glad you see it that way.
Cardinal Graelyn: Indeed. See you out there.
Lyn Farel: I will attempt to enhance what I have said previously. I am not saying "Eye for an eye." What I am saying is, in war, you do not win by sitting around waiting for the enemy to attack you. You attack the enemy. This is not to say there are not clever strategies wherein one does practice defense. It is to say that if you let the enemy dictate the war, then you will always be at the enemy's command. This is not sound strategy. What I find disheartening is so many members of the supposed supporters of the Empire that don't understand this. They seem to ignore the enemy militia members firing on members of the Amarr bloc in Amarr (the system), but want to call out people who attack the Minmatar in their systems.
As for privateering, we've discussed those supposedly NRDS entities you are referring to before. They fired on militia, and not just the ones with criminal status. That being the case, I still think your definition needs some refining, or you should reevaluate your view of them as NRDS entities.
I am not being hostile. I am responding to your points as clearly as I can.
Ryven Krennel |
John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 08:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ryven Krennel wrote:Ms. Farel, Status of Intaki? Really? What does this have to do with anything? Truthfully, I am not up to date on their situation. If you would like to educate me on the subject, you can always send me some literature detailing why this should matter to me and what effect, if any, the Intaki situation has on our operations.
Ryven Krennel
It has very much to do with what you state in your original release, most of the Caldari Militia has made a effort to retake Intaki which I have no quarrel with as it is not Ishukone's nor her subsidiaries such as Ishukone-Raata to intervene with the attempt of occupancy.
The problem that you will find is that most of the Caldari Militia, along side other racial militia's is that privateer, pirating is a full blown problem, hell I have witnessed Provist forces engage Ishukone/Mordu escorts and their defenseless haulers.. This type of corruption is unacceptable it only brings originally neutral/peaceful elements into this 'conflict' such as Ishukone-Raata, and the Intaki Liberation Front. I suggest you do read up on the situation before you decide to write it off as a small matter, it will become even worse off then it is.
|
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
121
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 10:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
John Revenent wrote:most of the Caldari Militia has made a effort to retake Intaki which I have no quarrel with as it is not Ishukone's nor her subsidiaries such as Ishukone-Raata to intervene with the attempt of occupancy. Please note that the Intaki/Ishukone contract only allows Mordu's forces to be present in Intaki. Even Ishukone Watch is excluded from this. The Caldari Militia attacking Intaki is a direct breach of the Ishukone treaty with the Intaki Assembly. |
Lyn Farel
Extropian Technologies
17
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 11:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ryven Krennel wrote: Lyn Farel: I will attempt to enhance what I have said previously. I am not saying "Eye for an eye." What I am saying is, in war, you do not win by sitting around waiting for the enemy to attack you. You attack the enemy. This is not to say there are not clever strategies wherein one does practice defense. It is to say that if you let the enemy dictate the war, then you will always be at the enemy's command. This is not sound strategy. What I find disheartening is so many members of the supposed supporters of the Empire that don't understand this. They seem to ignore the enemy militia members firing on members of the Amarr bloc in Amarr (the system), but want to call out people who attack the Minmatar in their systems.
As for privateering, we've discussed those supposedly NRDS entities you are referring to before. They fired on militia, and not just the ones with criminal status. That being the case, I still think your definition needs some refining, or you should reevaluate your view of them as NRDS entities.
This is where I plenly disagree. I do not speak only out of ethics, but also out of pragmatism.
This is not a full scale war, this is proxy war. You do realize that this war will only end because one side or the other, or both, will come to an agreement in which the militias will have little if not nothing to do with. The STPRO once occupied 100% of the gallentean contestable territory. Did they win ? No, the war continued. Our actions as militia capsuleers mean very little in the end. It is purely about symbols and ideals that have to be shown to get the moral superiority.
Enemy forces are constituted of (mostly) capsuleers. They do not die. Deliberately agressing them (for example by attacking their territory) only means a waste of crews, and harden the enemy resolution.
Years have passed and nothing has changed. Governements do not seem to really care anymore. This is a war where capsuleers are thrown into like we throw starving slaver hounds in an arena. We do not even know what are the consequences on the native populations of the systems that are being contested. This is the only opaque point that still makes the engagement in this war a valid one.
So in the end, everything that sill keeps an ersatz of meaning revolves around the contestation of enemy systems and occupied planets, and its impact on the populations here. Do going offensive makes you dictate the war ? Not really. It does not really destroy the enemy forces for the simple reason that they are capsuleers. Nobody cares, because they do not die (at the contrary of conventional navies). The only reason that could back up offensive operations is the will not to see the enemy conducting the same operations in your own space.
But eventually, this is trade with a null result : what you prevent in your space, you bring it in the enemy's space. |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
17
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 14:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
I suspect we will have to agree to disagree. This discussion also is headed toward a null result. The principal purpose of this thread still remains, however, which was simply to announce our founding. While I understand the desire to sound out our views on subjects of individual importance to you, I have to abstain from delving into them too deeply in this particular thread, or at this time. Thank you, at any rate. |
Ruah Piskonit
PIE Inc.
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.17 03:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
I am waiting for your basic policy guideline and mission statement. Not an answer to Lyn.
i accept eve-mail.
But otherwise, I wish you guys focused crystals and Gods speed. |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
17
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 03:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Our Mission Statement:
Imperial Outlaws is an Amarr Empire para-military corporation dedicated to the protection and service of God and Empire. I.LAW accepts members of all races so long as they follow corporate rules and pass a trial period.
I.LAW is primarily a corporation engaged in the Amarr/Minmatar war, though it's reach spreads all over the cluster, wherever it's enemies may be found. I.LAW members are active and a powerful asset to the Amarr militia. I.LAW pilots are team-players and are willing to work to help and protect their fellow corp-mates. Respect and maturity are essential for I.LAW pilots, as poor conduct is disciplined as seen fit.
I.LAW operates under a NBSI policy in space. Our standings are constantly updated and the list grows for both reds and blues as we encounter more people. Those Amarr corporations and individuals operating in low-sec are encouraged to seek blue standings if necessary.
Members are required to maintain -4.9 or higher security status.
That should help to clarify a few things. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
317
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 07:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ryven Krennel wrote: I.LAW operates under a NBSI policy in space.
Disappointing.
Still, at least it explains why you call yourselves outlaws. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Kithrus
Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 11:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:Ryven Krennel wrote: I.LAW operates under a NBSI policy in space.
Disappointing. Still, at least it explains why you call yourselves outlaws.
I'm not sure. I personally don't take offense to NBSI because sometimes there is a place for the monsters that roam the stars so the holy don't have to become those monsters.
Its noble in a way when you think about it but I digress. |
|
Condor Amarr
PIE Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 12:59:00 -
[21] - Quote
Kithrus wrote:Rodj Blake wrote:Ryven Krennel wrote: I.LAW operates under a NBSI policy in space.
Disappointing. Still, at least it explains why you call yourselves outlaws. I'm not sure. I personally don't take offense to NBSI because sometimes there is a place for the monsters that roam the stars so the holy don't have to become those monsters. Its noble in a way when you think about it but I digress.
There is nothing noble about shooting some random pilot who happens to pass you in space. Nothing noble in the slightest. Although, I suppose this will cause less heart-ache for some members who; until now, needed to come up with some excuse or reason for why they had destroyed a particular ship. Far less paperwork to be like everyone else. |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
17
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 13:01:00 -
[22] - Quote
Admiral Blake, your response comes as no surprise.
Allow me to pose one quick line of thought. Our pilots are required to maintain a certain security status. This does limit the potential number of neutrals we can engage. Secondly, this area is a warzone, and has been now for several years. It is also low-security space. There are only four types of entities we will encounter there: Friendly, enemy, pirates, and idiots. We have already stated we won't be shooting friendlies, so, really, that just leaves enemies, pirates, and idiots. I doubt the universe will weep for the losses.
So, do I feel we are outlaws, per se? Not really. I would rather say we have accepted the grim reality of fighting a war with its own sets of unwritten rules, and are doing what needs to be done. |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
17
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 13:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Condor Amarr wrote: There is nothing noble about shooting some random pilot who happens to pass you in space. Nothing noble in the slightest.
I am not sure whether to call this a straw man or a slippery slope, but fallacious reasoning it is, nonetheless.
Just because a corporation is NBSI does not immediately mean they shoot "random pilot" who happens to pass you in space. What it does mean is that the target's declared affiliation is less important than where he/she is and what he/she is doing. I think you also forget that this isn't going on in Sarum Prime or Luminaire. This is low-security space in an active warzone. Chances of the pilot being an innocent bystander are low indeed. So, reevaluate your 'argument.' It has some holes in it. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
317
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 14:11:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ryven Krennel wrote:Admiral Blake, your response comes as no surprise.
Allow me to pose one quick line of thought. Our pilots are required to maintain a certain security status. This does limit the potential number of neutrals we can engage. Secondly, this area is a warzone, and has been now for several years. It is also low-security space. There are only four types of entities we will encounter there: Friendly, enemy, pirates, and idiots. We have already stated we won't be shooting friendlies, so, really, that just leaves enemies, pirates, and idiots. I doubt the universe will weep for the losses.
So, do I feel we are outlaws, per se? Not really. I would rather say we have accepted the grim reality of fighting a war with its own sets of unwritten rules, and are doing what needs to be done.
If you consider anyone travelling through the area on unavoidable business to be an idiot, then that probably says more about you than it does about them.
I've always been of the opinion that shooting at neutrals doesn't make you safer - it just makes you more enemies. But we will have to wait to see how your policy works in practice.
Needless to say, we will take a dim view of any inappropriate behaviour.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Condor Amarr
PIE Inc.
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 14:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ryven Krennel wrote:Condor Amarr wrote: There is nothing noble about shooting some random pilot who happens to pass you in space. Nothing noble in the slightest.
I am not sure whether to call this a straw man or a slippery slope, but fallacious reasoning it is, nonetheless. Just because a corporation is NBSI does not immediately mean they shoot "random pilot" who happens to pass you in space. What it does mean is that the target's declared affiliation is less important than where he/she is and what he/she is doing. I think you also forget that this isn't going on in Sarum Prime or Luminaire. This is low-security space in an active warzone. Chances of the pilot being an innocent bystander are low indeed. So, reevaluate your 'argument.' It has some holes in it.
Of course my argument has holes in it, it wasn't marked blue to you and you shot it.
Ryven Krennel wrote: Just because a corporation is NBSI does not immediately mean they shoot "random pilot" who happens to pass you in space.
Actually, that's exactly what it means. NBSI=Not Blue, Shoot It. Last time I checked, that literally means, if a certain organisation does not specifically have blue standings with you or your organisation, they are fair game.
Ryven Krennel wrote: This is low-security space in an active warzone. Chances of the pilot being an innocent bystander are low indeed.
So, no chance he is a random pilot in New Eden who decided to look around, or possibly do some mining or exploration? Of course not, that would make him an "idiot" according to your logic and; therefore, able to be shot.
Now, don't get me wrong, your policies actually mean very little to me. I just found is amusing that there was even talk of you doing good deeds, whilst concurrently speaking about shooting anything that isn't a mate.
My "argument with holes in it" stands - there is nothing noble about shooting someone you know nothing about, simply because "they were in low security space". |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
17
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 14:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
I suspect the number of people travelling on "unavoidable business" to be minimal. Regardless, I think you will find your concerns mostly unwarranted. We aren't bloodthirsty savages. If the individuals under attack wish to voice a valid protestation, it will be considered. As stated, we encourage entities with Amarr loyalties to seek blue status. However, the number of enemies hiding behind supposedly neutral status is getting rather ridiculous. |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
17
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 14:27:00 -
[27] - Quote
Condor, I am aware of what NBSI stands for. However, the condition that pilots maintain a certain security level does actually mean a large number of neutrals do not get shot at. The choice to fire is accompanied by a fair degree of thought. So, assuming we shoot at everything wandering by is invalid. But a NRDS policy protects a large number of individuals that do not deserve protecting.
Regardless, this discussion is moot. You feel as you do, and we feel as we do. Neither is likely to be moved. |
Lyn Farel
Extropian Technologies
18
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 17:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
Kithrus wrote:Rodj Blake wrote:Ryven Krennel wrote: I.LAW operates under a NBSI policy in space.
Disappointing. Still, at least it explains why you call yourselves outlaws. I'm not sure. I personally don't take offense to NBSI because sometimes there is a place for the monsters that roam the stars so the holy don't have to become those monsters. Its noble in a way when you think about it but I digress.
I do not think that blowing up everything that moves in imperial space is really clever when you state that you fight for the Empire.
Condor Amarr wrote: There is nothing noble about shooting some random pilot who happens to pass you in space. Nothing noble in the slightest. Although, I suppose this will cause less heart-ache for some members who; until now, needed to come up with some excuse or reason for why they had destroyed a particular ship. Far less paperwork to be like everyone else.
Nothing noble in blowing up neutral NRDS Nyx class supercarriers, indeed. You may want to contact admiral Nusak about this if you wonder what I am refering to.
Ryven Krennel wrote:Admiral Blake, your response comes as no surprise.
Allow me to pose one quick line of thought. Our pilots are required to maintain a certain security status. This does limit the potential number of neutrals we can engage. Secondly, this area is a warzone, and has been now for several years. It is also low-security space. There are only four types of entities we will encounter there: Friendly, enemy, pirates, and idiots. We have already stated we won't be shooting friendlies, so, really, that just leaves enemies, pirates, and idiots. I doubt the universe will weep for the losses.
So, do I feel we are outlaws, per se? Not really. I would rather say we have accepted the grim reality of fighting a war with its own sets of unwritten rules, and are doing what needs to be done.
So everything that is not something actually engaged in the war is an "idiot" ? Thank you for your kind words...
Are you willing to choke the whole population living there or something ?
In any case, your policies have been noted and for what it is worth, for all of you, consider yourself kill on sight to me. Maybe I am now barely active in the area but I will not close my eyes while you happily help the militias to destroy everything of value in the region. |
Mra Rednu
PIE Inc.
12
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 18:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote: Nothing noble in blowing up neutral NRDS Nyx class supercarriers, indeed. You may want to contact admiral Nusak about this if you wonder what I am refering to.
Guardian Nusak followed our R.O.E. to the letter in the incident in question, plus seeking additional clearance with an Admiral before opening fire. |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
17
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 18:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ms. Farel, At no time did we say anything of the people on the planets. Our concern is capsuleers in space. Further, there are many areas in the cluster to conduct business not related to the ongoing war. Also, as stated previously, these folks can ask for blue status. Common sense plays a large part in this. If a neutral supercapital is in the area however, I have to question how noble its intent is.
Also, how smart is it to be mining in a warzone? This is like going grocery shopping in a mine field. These people make a choice. So, frankly, if they do not contact us for blue status or bring their innocence to our attention, I would say that their loss of ship is an unfortunate side effect of poor decision making.
Now, if you are setting us KOS, then that is your decision as well to make. Keep in mind that I am being civil and bear no enmity toward you, but shooting at us will result in us shooting back. I think, honestly, that a little more temperance is in order. We aren't eating babies, we are just expanding our scope of operations beyond previously established norms that no longer fit the current battlespace. |
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Lyn Farel
Extropian Technologies
18
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 21:14:00 -
[31] - Quote
Mra Rednu wrote:Lyn Farel wrote: Nothing noble in blowing up neutral NRDS Nyx class supercarriers, indeed. You may want to contact admiral Nusak about this if you wonder what I am refering to.
Guardian Nusak followed our R.O.E. to the letter in the incident in question, plus seeking additional clearance with an Admiral before opening fire.
Then if your leadership condone this, this means that your ROE thus includes helping pirate elements of the militia in taking down neutral NRDS local entities, which means eventually helping NBSI elements in their daily work (apparently when the target is big enough, would you have wealth issues in PIE Inc that you feel the need to resort to such blatant acts of piracy ? I have difficulties to believe it).
Ryven Krennel wrote:Ms. Farel, At no time did we say anything of the people on the planets. Our concern is capsuleers in space. Further, there are many areas in the cluster to conduct business not related to the ongoing war. Also, as stated previously, these folks can ask for blue status. Common sense plays a large part in this. If a neutral supercapital is in the area however, I have to question how noble its intent is.
Also, how smart is it to be mining in a warzone? This is like going grocery shopping in a mine field. These people make a choice. So, frankly, if they do not contact us for blue status or bring their innocence to our attention, I would say that their loss of ship is an unfortunate side effect of poor decision making.
Now, if you are setting us KOS, then that is your decision as well to make. Keep in mind that I am being civil and bear no enmity toward you, but shooting at us will result in us shooting back. I think, honestly, that a little more temperance is in order. We aren't eating babies, we are just expanding our scope of operations beyond previously established norms that no longer fit the current battlespace.
Crusader Krennel,
I will definitly never ask blue status with people sharing ideals that I despise, which means two things :
- As I am not going to ask you for a blue status due to differences in ethics, I have the obligation to set mark you as hostile considering that you will probably open fire on me (because I will remain neutral). - I am and have always been a supporter of NRDS principles and will open fire on every NBSI member I find, period.
I am sorry to say this but I do not want to start yet another debate on NBSI vs NRDS.
On another note I shall remind you that this supercarrier only came after to help two of his friendly carriers that were in trouble, apparently trying to get rid of militia pirate elements. If you still consider this not "noble" enough, then I do not see what could be considered as such.
Anyway indeed, as you have noticed, I am not a huge threat to anyone at the time being. My actions are mostly symbolic at the moment. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
318
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 21:38:00 -
[32] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:Mra Rednu wrote:Lyn Farel wrote: Nothing noble in blowing up neutral NRDS Nyx class supercarriers, indeed. You may want to contact admiral Nusak about this if you wonder what I am refering to.
Guardian Nusak followed our R.O.E. to the letter in the incident in question, plus seeking additional clearance with an Admiral before opening fire. Then if your leadership condone this, this means that your ROE thus includes helping pirate elements of the militia in taking down neutral NRDS local entities, which means eventually helping NBSI elements in their daily work (apparently when the target is big enough, would you have wealth issues in PIE Inc that you feel the need to resort to such blatant acts of piracy ? I have difficulties to believe it).
If this is the incident that I think it is, then my understanding is that it was the Nyx that had originally aggressed against elements of the militia, not vice versa. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
17
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 22:19:00 -
[33] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:Lyn Farel wrote:Mra Rednu wrote:Lyn Farel wrote: Nothing noble in blowing up neutral NRDS Nyx class supercarriers, indeed. You may want to contact admiral Nusak about this if you wonder what I am refering to.
Guardian Nusak followed our R.O.E. to the letter in the incident in question, plus seeking additional clearance with an Admiral before opening fire. Then if your leadership condone this, this means that your ROE thus includes helping pirate elements of the militia in taking down neutral NRDS local entities, which means eventually helping NBSI elements in their daily work (apparently when the target is big enough, would you have wealth issues in PIE Inc that you feel the need to resort to such blatant acts of piracy ? I have difficulties to believe it). If this is the incident that I think it is, then my understanding is that it was the Nyx that had originally aggressed against elements of the militia, not vice versa.
The incident in question is indeed what you think it is, Admiral. Ms. Farel seems to be of the opinion that because they are neutral NRDS entities, we shouldn't fire on them when they openly aggress our fleet mates. Her reasoning is that they aggressed outlaw elements of our fleet first. However, the smartbombs were not very selective in who they aggressed, and thus, the battle escalated. Nonetheless, the supposedly neutral group did aggress first. The Nyx came to save the capital assets that were being destroyed and met the same fate after it too aggressed.
What I find disturbing here, Lyn, is that you assume that since an organization is NRDS it is somehow better than an NBSI one. If this is the case, that would suggest you would side with an Angel affiliated group were it NRDS, rather than an Amarr supporting group that is NBSI, and that is just silly.
We could be NRDS and set all of New Eden red, and we would be better, somehow, to you than if we maintain our current ROE. This is erroneous reasoning. Being NBSI does not mean firing at everything that moves. It means that the pilots and fleet commander have the leeway to make decisions on the fly without having to go through a long drawn out process of setting them red beforehand. This policy puts that decision process in the hands of the pilot. That's the only difference. We are not encouraging our pilots to shoot at literally everything. We are just giving them the benefit of the doubt.
As for your rhetoric and threats, well, you're allowed them. Just remember that I didn't make you make that decision. Your black and white views did.
|
Karmilla Strife
Damnation Angels Naraka.
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.18 22:31:00 -
[34] - Quote
I'd like to personally wish my former comrades in [I.LAW] well. I'm sure with the quality of the pilots involved and their pragmatic choice of rules of engagement, they will meet with much success. |
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
131
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 10:47:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ms. Strife in Naraka?
Fascinating. |
Lyn Farel
Extropian Technologies
18
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 22:11:00 -
[36] - Quote
Ryven Krennel wrote:
The incident in question is indeed what you think it is, Admiral. Ms. Farel seems to be of the opinion that because they are neutral NRDS entities, we shouldn't fire on them when they openly aggress our fleet mates. Her reasoning is that they aggressed outlaw elements of our fleet first. However, the smartbombs were not very selective in who they aggressed, and thus, the battle escalated. Nonetheless, the supposedly neutral group did aggress first. The Nyx came to save the capital assets that were being destroyed and met the same fate after it too aggressed.
Indeed. The fleet mates in question were blantantly pirating under the amarrian flag. What you are telling me is that you would rather side with despicable elements instead of actually protecting the Empire you swore to defend. "War necessities" I suppose ? Well, as I explained above, they are definitly no necessity.
Ryven Krennel wrote:What I find disturbing here, Lyn, is that you assume that since an organization is NRDS it is somehow better than an NBSI one. If this is the case, that would suggest you would side with an Angel affiliated group were it NRDS, rather than an Amarr supporting group that is NBSI, and that is just silly.
Yes, I would. Though I do not know a lot of Angel/pirate affiliated corps that operate under NRDS principles. Do you know some ?
Why do you think I have quite rarely fleeted with the militia (and less and less when it started to degenerate heavily) ?
Ryven Krennel wrote:We are not encouraging our pilots to shoot at literally everything. We are just giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Knowing how it turned with a supposed NRDS entity like the Knighthood, that indeed gave to its members the "benefit of the doubt", I do not want to imagine what it will be with NBSI principles, but at least some would say that you are being perfectly honest about that.
Ryven Krennel wrote: Just remember that I didn't make you make that decision. Your black and white views did.
I am usually the first one to tell people that black and white situations do not exist. Though here, I see very little reasons and valid arguments behind NBSI, and have never seen. If you really wish it we can naturally have a discussion on it, but I would rather not do it here yet another time considering how frequent and useless these NBSI/NRDS debates on the IGS are. |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
19
|
Posted - 2011.10.19 22:41:00 -
[37] - Quote
The reason these debates are useless is because of your refusal to even look at the issue from anything other than a black and white viewpoint. You continue to operate under some strange delusion that NBSI = pirate/evil. This is not empirically true. I should also add that I've been very calm and deliberate in my responses, whereas you continuously bandy about deliberately hostile rhetoric and remarks and have gone as far as to threaten it with violence (although you yourself admitted the threat is mostly a moot one).
Your insistence that the militia is engaging in open piracy is ludicrous. Having a security status below -5.0 does not necessarily make you a pirate. Engaging enemies set red, but not actively in a militia does deal a security hit, even though, honestly, the targets were hostile or engaging in actions that were suspect. Some organizations are constantly out engaging the enemy and have not managed to regain their lost security status. This does NOT make them pirates, per se. It does make them outlaws in the eyes of CONCORD, but not pirates. And, again, the capital assets and supercapital assets engaged at the time you keep erroneously referring to were globally flagged criminals who openly engaged the fleet, using smartbombs at first (which is not very smart).
From my point of view a pirate is one who attacks for personal gain, fun, or sheer boredom, ANYONE that passes by. Further, pirates engage in ransoming their victims.
I.LAW does not ransom, ever. I.LAW does not engage just ANYONE that passes by. We do not engage for personal gain, fun, or out of boredom. We are NBSI because NRDS doesn't allow flexibility or on the fly decision making, and because as of now, there is no clever acronym for anything between the two.
And, one other thing, allies are allies, enemies are enemies. Their particular ROE or extracurricular activities are of little concern to me when I am relying on them to have my back in a fleet engagement. While I may not particularly like everything they ever do, they ARE allies. If they are fired upon and need help, then I will aid them. Especially when its a subcapital being attacked by multiple capital ships.
So, as a recap: We are not pirates. We are not bloodthirsty baby-eating puppy sacrificing savages bent on destruction of anything and everything. We simply use a looser ROE to give our pilots and commanders the ability to make decisions in the field.
Oh, and one final thing: You are correct, I don't know of any Angels NRDS groups. However, I do find it interesting that you would side with them rather than your own people. This lack of loyalty is deeply disturbing. |
Graelyn
Wolfsbrigade
26
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 00:30:00 -
[38] - Quote
Those who would serve the Empire should not be beholden to the whims of CONCORD.
+ Cardinal Graelyn +
Owner/Operator, "The Summit"
|
Ruah Piskonit
PIE Inc.
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 05:45:00 -
[39] - Quote
Arkady Sadik wrote:Ms. Strife in Naraka?
Fascinating.
Incredibly disappointing actually. I suppose when they fall, they fall far. From such a promising disciple too.
But that is neither here nor there.
I.Law knows very well the policies we uphold - just don't cross the line and everything will be fine. You want your commanders to have some flexibility in the field - and you are not running a 0.0 NBSI policy. But if this turns into a murderous rampage through the Bleak Lands - well that is self defeating.
A very tight line you have decided to walk. |
Lyn Farel
Extropian Technologies
18
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 19:16:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ryven Krennel wrote:The reason these debates are useless is because of your refusal to even look at the issue from anything other than a black and white viewpoint. You continue to operate under some strange delusion that NBSI = pirate/evil. This is not empirically true. I should also add that I've been very calm and deliberate in my responses, whereas you continuously bandy about deliberately hostile rhetoric and remarks and have gone as far as to threaten it with violence (although you yourself admitted the threat is mostly a moot one).
Your insistence that the militia is engaging in open piracy is ludicrous. Having a security status below -5.0 does not necessarily make you a pirate. Engaging enemies set red, but not actively in a militia does deal a security hit, even though, honestly, the targets were hostile or engaging in actions that were suspect. Some organizations are constantly out engaging the enemy and have not managed to regain their lost security status. This does NOT make them pirates, per se. It does make them outlaws in the eyes of CONCORD, but not pirates. And, again, the capital assets and supercapital assets engaged at the time you keep erroneously referring to were globally flagged criminals who openly engaged the fleet, using smartbombs at first (which is not very smart).
From my point of view a pirate is one who attacks for personal gain, fun, or sheer boredom, ANYONE that passes by. Further, pirates engage in ransoming their victims.
I.LAW does not ransom, ever. I.LAW does not engage just ANYONE that passes by. We do not engage for personal gain, fun, or out of boredom. We are NBSI because NRDS doesn't allow flexibility or on the fly decision making, and because as of now, there is no clever acronym for anything between the two.
And, one other thing, allies are allies, enemies are enemies. Their particular ROE or extracurricular activities are of little concern to me when I am relying on them to have my back in a fleet engagement. While I may not particularly like everything they ever do, they ARE allies. If they are fired upon and need help, then I will aid them. Especially when its a subcapital being attacked by multiple capital ships.
So, as a recap: We are not pirates. We are not bloodthirsty baby-eating puppy sacrificing savages bent on destruction of anything and everything. We simply use a looser ROE to give our pilots and commanders the ability to make decisions in the field.
Oh, and one final thing: You are correct, I don't know of any Angels NRDS groups. However, I do find it interesting that you would side with them rather than your own people. This lack of loyalty is deeply disturbing.
You are putting words in my mouth and deliberatly falling into hyperboles.
- I said nowhere that NBSI = pirate / evil.
- My stance is hostile to any NBSI entity and have always been. What would you expect ? I do not think I have been rude here and have merely stated that a part of my work have always been to hunt pirates OR NBSI capsuleers, exactly the same way you fight your enemies for ideological purposes.
- I never mentionned security status under -5.0 or CONCORD related ideals. I just said that engaging for example NRDS neutrals and random neutrals is very wide spread in the militia (it was NOT the case at the beginning, the militia was a lot cleaner).
- I never said you eat... uh, babies...
- The capital ships we are talking about engaged rogue elements of the militia. Enough said.
- The subcapitals that were engaged by capitals we keep arguing about were obvious baits, not victims.
- Siding with one's own people has absolutely nothing to do with siding with a militia constituted of ragtags and rogue capsuleers with discutable ethics. |
|
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
19
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 19:46:00 -
[41] - Quote
Are your dim views of the militia based on any actual facts?
And, generally bait is designed to make you attack it, not it attack you. Further, if said capitals were acting as bait then they were looking for a fight and not in fact neutral but hostile. What are these "neutrals" paying you?
I did lapse into hyperbole. My intent was to put the absurdity of your derision into clear focus. |
Lyn Farel
Extropian Technologies
18
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 15:48:00 -
[42] - Quote
My views are based on 3 years spent in the militia.
You do not seem to understand what NRDS is about. If you have people flagged in hostile/red, you usually try to engage them. Be it with baits or other methods. Here, they apparently engaged bait subcapitals with their capitals. I do not say that their strategy was clever, though. They did not really seem to be seasonned pilots used to capsuleer vs capsuleer combat. |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
19
|
Posted - 2011.10.23 14:05:00 -
[43] - Quote
Ah. Side with them all you want then. Perhaps you should put in an application with them? Or maybe Electus Matari? |
BBJ Shepard
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
143
|
Posted - 2011.10.23 14:19:00 -
[44] - Quote
Ryven Krennel wrote:Capsuleers of the Summit,
I am pleased to announce the formation of a new corporation. Imperial Outlaws [I.LAW] has officially commenced operations on the Amarr/Minmatar warfront, as a member of the Amarr faction. We are dedicated to furthering the interests of the Amarr Empire, and also to aiding our allies, the Caldari militia. Some of our members are likely known to you: Eran Mintor, Shalee Lianne, Almity, and others who have served ably on the front lines in the past. I am sure there are questions that will likely be asked, and I will humbly answer those that I can.
Ryven Krennel I.LAW Diplomat hi |
Lyn Farel
Extropian Technologies
18
|
Posted - 2011.10.23 17:17:00 -
[45] - Quote
Ryven Krennel wrote:Perhaps you should put in an application with them? Or maybe Electus Matari?
Why ? |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
19
|
Posted - 2011.10.24 01:48:00 -
[46] - Quote
Your deliberate refusal to believe anything outside your own extremely narrow view troubles me. I suggested you join those organizations because you seem to already be on thier side anyway. Perhaps not EM, but definitely whoever these neutrals you keep defending for no reason. |
Lyn Farel
Extropian Technologies
18
|
Posted - 2011.10.24 18:42:00 -
[47] - Quote
And your lack of objectivity and detachement troubles me. Should I suggest you to join say, Goonswarm, for the only reason that you both seem to share NBSI ideals ?
That would be narrow minded, I think. |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
19
|
Posted - 2011.10.24 19:04:00 -
[48] - Quote
The difference is I don't blindly support Goonswarm, whereas you blatantly stated you would support an NRDS entity over an NBSI one without any consideration of any other factors.
I have already explained the actual implimentation of our policy and the ways in which it differs from the policy of an entity like Goonswarm, which I did, as it so happens, used to fly with as one of their allies.
I would understand your position if we were literally shooting everything in space, but we are not. Hence, the narrowness of your view is in your inability to consider the possibility that our policy is anything other than your preconception of NBSI. It is telling that even Admiral Blake, a notoriously rigid and closed-minded fellow, has adopted a wait and see stance, a but you are throwing out KOS rhetoric. |
Lyn Farel
Extropian Technologies
18
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 18:46:00 -
[49] - Quote
Admiral Blake is a partisan, and he would have answered totally differently was you not an allied for him (and his corporation do privateering too anyway).
Now then, since the beginning I have perfectly understood that you follow NBSI policies "with a conscience". Considering what I have seen in either the militia or the Knighthood, my opinion will only change if you are able to prove that you only shoot at TLF neutral camouflaged allies and direct threats (like false neutrals in military complexes). Which is, by the way, a form of NRDS and not NBSI.
Eventually, shooting at one or two neutrals for war's sake or shooting at everything that moves is not that much different : merely on scales.
But I know your pilots, and I know that they will not be able to keep up to such policies. Of course, you can still try to prove me wrong, I will not complain. |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
19
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 19:34:00 -
[50] - Quote
A few issues. 1) We are not the Knighthood. So, keep that in mind. 2) I am thankful that my corp doesn't have to prove anything to you. My only reason in arguing with you at all is for any silent audience out there to have a better understanding. Otherwise, your condemnation of my organization is basically meaningless. Who do you represent?
Besides, since you are content to stick to your definition of piracy and privateering as whatever you say it is, any attempt of mine to say otherwise will be meaningless to you. Further, any justification I might present will be cleverly restructured to somehow discredit or disregard whatever evidence I bring you, as in the case we've been discussing, where militia defended themselves against an aggressor, that somehow you see as an act of privateering.
So, continue to operate in a world where facts are fluidly shifting to fit whatever you need them to be. But, be careful calling people pirates. I was one, and frankly, I find the insinuations here to be ridiculous. If I go pirate, there won't be any ambiguity about it.
In summation, you are entitled to your opinions. I am just very surprised at the disdain with which you view your former comrades, the black brush you paint us with, and the ease with which you can twist and distort the truth to suit your prejudices. I used to hold you in high regard, and expected better of you. |
|
Lyn Farel
Extropian Technologies
18
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 20:04:00 -
[51] - Quote
I never said you were the Knighthood. This is why I am still expecting to see what will come out of your corporation policies. Though of course, you said NBSI, so... Unless it is not ?
Then, if you do not feel the need to prove anything to me, then prove it to the audience, as you say. Speaking of this, I only represent myself, but I would not bet that other neutral NRDS entities would think differently (like the Yulai Guard for example).
Quote: Besides, since you are content to stick to your definition of piracy and privateering as whatever you say it is, any attempt of mine to say otherwise will be meaningless to you. Further, any justification I might present will be cleverly restructured to somehow discredit or disregard whatever evidence I bring you, as in the case we've been discussing, where militia defended themselves against an aggressor, that somehow you see as an act of privateering.
I could say the same of you. I have yet to see a single argument that I could find valuable to my eyes. I see none, as I explained somewhere above.
And by the way, it pains me to say it again and again, but you do not seem to understand that the militia baited a neutral fleet, knowing that this neutral fleet would engage them due to the militia fleet being obvious common pirates usually shooting at everything worth it. Do not even try to deny that half of the militia, or more, would shoot on anything valuable, even neutral, given the occasion, because I would not believe you the slightest. This is the people you are working with.
And finally, former comrades or not, I will never betray my beliefs for them. Question of ethics. |
Eran Mintor
Imperial Outlaws
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.25 22:31:00 -
[52] - Quote
Miss Farel,
Thank you for your continued support and dedication to the Amarr Empire your personal morals. It always puts a smile on my face when I think about how people perceived I was a Minmatar agent sent in to cause chaos and create rifts inside the Empire when clearly such agents are unnecessary with exceptional pilots like you. When I heard you set us KOS, I must admit, it made me chuckle for quite a while. It still does.
Your KOS standings have been returned without a second thought. Remember that it was you who chose this path. Thank you, and have a nice day.
Next? |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
3
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 17:53:00 -
[53] - Quote
Since Electus Matari was mentioned, let me clarify something:
We operate NRDS ourselves, but our red/blue requirements do not mention the term. This is because we are not really interested in how you define your standings and RoE; we are interested in who you end up shooting. To clarify this by taking it to extremes: if you are "NRDS", but set red every neutral you ever meet the minute you meet them, you end up shooting everyone; if you are "NBSI", but set blue every neutral you ever meet the minute you meet them, you end up shooting no one (possibly unless they shoot you first, depending on your RoE on firing back at blues).
There are NBSI organizations (e.g. friendly Militia who in practice have not killed anyone that wasn't red to us in months) that we have infinitely more in common with than some NRDS organizations (e.g. PIE Inc).
I doubt we'd at this point be interested in hiring Captain Farel, but as corporations in EM generally hire independently, I cannot comment that with full confidence. Preference for NRDS is definitely not a recommendation enough, however.
Now back to the actual topic.
Elsebeth Rhiannon Diplomat Electus Matari |
Lyn Farel
Extropian Technologies
18
|
Posted - 2011.10.26 18:25:00 -
[54] - Quote
I agree with Ms Rhiannon, my own views are more or less the same. When I speak of NRDS, I do not refer to absurd NRDS policies setting everyone in red without reasons, to clarify. My apologies for not having mentionned it clearly until now.
Eran Mintor wrote:Miss Farel,
Thank you for your continued support and dedication to the Amarr Empire your personal morals.
You have my thanks in return : you are one of the first to understand that. |
Kuan Yida
Huang Yinglong
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.01 23:20:00 -
[55] - Quote
Do the Imperial Outlaws espouse any of the tenants of the original Knights of the Merciful Crown? Specifically, do they have a public stance of anti-slavery, as previously held by KOTMC? |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 19:36:00 -
[56] - Quote
Excellent question, Kuan. This issue has not been discussed yet on a corporate level. I will bring it to the attention of the I.LAW directors and get back to you as soon as I have an answer. |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
5
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 19:38:00 -
[57] - Quote
I am not aware of KOTMC ever taking such a public stance. Could someone point me to the archives about that?
(I am aware of individual members of KOTMC claiming to be antislavery while fighting for the Amarrian militia. That is different from a corporation public stance.)
Elsebeth
|
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 19:43:00 -
[58] - Quote
I have intentionally tried to keep KotMC out of this thread discussion, as it is a separate entity from Imperial Outlaws. However, to answer your question, Ms. Rhiannon, no, KotMC never made that an official corp stance. Such things were left to the individual pilots. Many, including myself, espoused anti-slavery sentiments, often for differing political or moral reasons. |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
5
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 20:26:00 -
[59] - Quote
Apologies for thread hijacking and thank you for the confirmation.
I am sure I do not need to make clear my sentiments about stating you are anti-slavery while flying for the Empire Militia.
Elsebeth Rhiannon |
Tiara Sikai
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.02 22:55:00 -
[60] - Quote
As stated previously, slavery in its current form is likely not going to be around much longer. It is a right and proper reading of scripture, as the theology council declared, but not the only possible one.
First, an economical perspective: A "free" subsistence-wage worker costs very little more than a properly supervised and vitoc'ed slave. Unsurprising, since the worker receives basically the slaves food and shelter, disguised as currency. In some colonies I visited, the "currency" in fact never left the hands of the sponsors, since the workers only could spend it in the company store. On the other hand, a skilled and educated specialist slave saves immensely over an employee - but that saving is only possible after huge investments into the slave's education. Prohibitive investments, frequently.
Secondly, a moral one: The goal of slavery is to bring a soul into the light. Hard labor is invaluable in this, but scarcely sufficient on its own. I imagine that soon, slavery will become a much more monastic part of our culture, where religious education and psychological conversion will take a more central role, and physical labor a reduced one.
So, why fly for the Milita if not to herd a few million minmatar into the next transport and cackle manically? Because it is the right thing to do for an Amarr. It is the right thing to do to defend our civilization, our culture and our faith from those who would bring it down, and replace it with tribal chanting. To secure the greatest empire ever against all threats internal and external. And not the least to put a scalpels point to my own faith. If it doesn't hurt, it does not count. |
|
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
159
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 00:11:00 -
[61] - Quote
Tiara Sikai wrote:So, why fly for the Milita if not to herd a few million minmatar into the next transport and cackle manically? Because it is the right thing to do for an Amarr. It is the right thing to do to defend our civilization We need you to reclaim the Minmatar from the drudge, chaos and inhumanity in which they currently dwell, and into God's light. We are their angels. We must be their saviors. By your power they shall be rescued from the dark. God wills it, and so it shall be.
-- 24th Imperial Crusade recruitment text. |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 00:16:00 -
[62] - Quote
Ms. Sikai,
While that is a fascinating seque, it does seem to derail the purpose of this thread. There have been many lengthy discussions at this summit regarding that very subject. For now, however, I would ask that this thread be used to discuss I.LAW, and the questions that pertain to it.
Thank you,
Ryven Krennel I.LAW Diplomatic Director |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 00:21:00 -
[63] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:Apologies for thread hijacking and thank you for the confirmation.
I am sure I do not need to make clear my sentiments about stating you are anti-slavery while flying for the Empire Militia.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
I do feel this requires a response from me.
People fly for militias for many differing reasons. Whatever the recruitment text says, I didn't join the 24th Imperial Crusade to enslave anyone. I joined the Knighthood, once upon a time, to find my own salvation, and to fight for a faith I embraced.
I moved to I.LAW to continue fighting a war because the Empire is my new home, and I defend it as such. Slavery, honestly, has nothing to do with my reasoning.
Now, my personal views on slavery as a practice are public and can be found easily with little or no searching. Do not, however, make the mistake of believing everyone joins the 24th for the same reasons. They don't.
Now, if you don't mind, let's keep things to the stated topic rather than devolving into the usual flurry of accusation and argument with no real outcome. This is essentially a Q&A, not a platform for your own political agendas. |
Kuan Yida
Huang Yinglong
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.03 18:01:00 -
[64] - Quote
From part of the original KOTMC charter:
Quote:The Knighthood is considered liberal by Amarrian standards. It's members generally believe that the Amarr Empire must adapt to a changing world in order to survive and they strive to maintain diplomatic relations with a greater variety of organizations than is typical for Amarrian loyalists. Religiously the order follows the Imperial Rite and venerates Empress Jamyl Sarum I. Her slave emancipation initiatives and claim that the age of slavery is coming to an end are embraced wholeheartedly by these progressive capsuleer knights. |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 02:07:00 -
[65] - Quote
Mr. Yida, That is not from KOTMC's charter, since we didn't have one. That was a snippet of flavor text from a public relations and information hub. I suggest you try reading for context. I would also recommend you try to grow up a little, rather than childishly posting a bit of text erroneously trying to prove a point that doesn't even matter, nor hold any relevance whatsoever to the topic. What KotMC did or did not do is completely irrelevant at this juncture, since that organization is no longer active. We were talking about my organization, Imperial Outlaws, a separate entity, very much active, and very much separate from KotMC. Also, very much still in deliberations on the subject of slavery.
|
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
20
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 02:40:00 -
[66] - Quote
After deliberations, I.LAW has adopted an anti-slavery stance. |
Kuan Yida
Huang Yinglong
2
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 18:47:00 -
[67] - Quote
Quote:I would also recommend you try to grow up a little, rather than childishly posting a bit of text erroneously trying to prove a point that doesn't even matter, nor hold any relevance whatsoever to the topic.
An un-called for insult, sir. I was not in any way attempting to be childish or prove any point. Posters to this discussion had expressed being un-aware of any previous KOTMC stance against slavery. I had known that KOTMC publicly declared support for the new Empress' anti-slavery agenda. Why you find this an issue at all, or erroneous in any way, and why you believe I was attempting to prove a point, is at best mystifying to me.
While I am gladdened by I.LAW's stance, your insult needs addressing. Hopefully I will have an opportunity soon to do so in space. |
Mitara Newelle
PIE Inc.
11
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 18:52:00 -
[68] - Quote
Ryven Krennel wrote:After deliberations, I.LAW has adopted an anti-slavery stance.
Would you care to expand on the meaning of this 'anti-slavery stance'? |
Lyn Farel
Extropian Technologies
40
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 18:56:00 -
[69] - Quote
Kuan Yida wrote:Quote:I would also recommend you try to grow up a little, rather than childishly posting a bit of text erroneously trying to prove a point that doesn't even matter, nor hold any relevance whatsoever to the topic. An un-called for insult, sir. I was not in any way attempting to be childish or prove any point. Posters to this discussion had expressed being un-aware of any previous KOTMC stance against slavery. I had known that KOTMC publicly declared support for the new Empress' anti-slavery agenda. Why you find this an issue at all, or erroneous in any way, and why you believe I was attempting to prove a point, is at best mystifying to me. While I am gladdened by I.LAW's stance, your insult needs addressing. Hopefully I will have an opportunity soon to do so in space.
If you are looking for clarification concerning KotMC policies, they were supposed to be what was describe in the corporation description you cited above. Though being guidelines only, they were not rules, and it was not totally uncommon to find several members that were slavers themselves. |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
21
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 19:01:00 -
[70] - Quote
So, you are mystified? Perhaps I should explain. The issue was settled. I addressed it. You countered after the fact with a quotation you put forth as some sort of charter, which it wasn't. Seeing as it was not accompanied by any sort of explanation, I took it as you deliberately countering what I had said. I found that insulting, since, having been a member of the Knighthood, having you throw that quotation at me was essentially the equivalent to you saying you know better because you read a brochure. Further, it continued to disrupt the purpose of this discourse, which is I.LAW, not KotMC. So, I lost my temper.
If I was insulting, it was in response to a percieved insult. You still feel sore about it, fine. There was nothing stopping us shooting each other anyway. |
|
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
21
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 19:06:00 -
[71] - Quote
As an expansion: We are opposed to the idea of slavery. We do not hold slaves. We do not capture slaves. Our ships are not crewed by slaves. We are still loyal to the Empire, but hold the view that slavery is indeed a policy that must end, or at the very least change greatly. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
Viziam Amarr Empire
19
|
Posted - 2011.11.04 19:11:00 -
[72] - Quote
Ryven Krennel wrote:As an expansion: We are opposed to the idea of slavery. We do not hold slaves. We do not capture slaves. Our ships are not crewed by slaves. We are still loyal to the Empire, but hold the view that slavery is indeed a policy that must end, or at the very least change greatly.
This gladdens my heart.
Best wishes to you and yours as you fight for the empire, Captain. |
Darc Kaahar
Valkyr Industries
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 14:19:00 -
[73] - Quote
How exciting! |
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
173
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 14:28:00 -
[74] - Quote
Ryven Krennel wrote:As an expansion: We are opposed to the idea of slavery. We do not hold slaves. We do not capture slaves. Our ships are not crewed by slaves. We are still loyal to the Empire, but hold the view that slavery is indeed a policy that must end, or at the very least change greatly. Good news, and thank you.
This raises a few questions.
Is your corp allowing the attack of Republic space? (I would assume so, this is war after all) Such attacks supports the Empire's Reclaiming of the free Minmatar as slaves - how does that fit with your ideals as stated above? If it is not slavery that you wish to bring to the Republic by invasion, what is it? What would your corp do with the Minmatar should you win, if your corp had any say in this? |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
6
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 14:40:00 -
[75] - Quote
I stated my opinion on calling yourself anti-slavery and flying for the Empire Militia in another thread. Since this now is relevant here too, I take the liberty to copy and paste here:
Since, apparently, contrary to what I said in the original post, I do need to spell out my feelings on this, here goes.
Yes, it is possible to join the Empire Militia for reasons other than the wish to support slavery. Some of these possible motives are entirely honourable: the wish to defend your homeland and your kin from an imminent invasion is hardly something that we can begrudge anyone. The state of war between our nations is as regrettable as it is inevitable, and many good people on both sides are drawn into it against their will and despite the larger picture of politics.
So, I would say that it is entirely possible to not be pro-slavery and be a member of the Amarr Militia.
However, I would not say it is possible to claim you are actually anti-slavery, while your clearest association in space is that to the Empire. What you fight for directly contributes to The Reclaiming and the status quo of the Empire. No matter how much you talk, your actions speak louder than your words. You might certainly wish you could be truly anti-slavery in actions as well as in words, but in the choice of fighting the Empire's war, you put that sentiment aside as secondary to the need to defend your nation, and consider slavery the lesser evil to being invaded by the Republic.
Mind you, if you are a free Amarrian citizen, I am not saying you are in the wrong. You are under attack. We do threaten your home and your kin. Your choice is between a moral evil and a personal threat, and I do not envy you for having to make it, nor pretend that I can advice you on the most honourable course in your particular situation.
But what you need to do, if you want to remain honourable, is to acknowledge that this choice exists and that you face it - not pretend that you are not making it.
Elsebeth Rhiannon CEO Gradient, Electus Matari |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
21
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 15:09:00 -
[76] - Quote
Reasonable words. How do we deal with a dilemma such as this. Perhaps the answer lies in the nature of war, and also in impatience. For the moment, there are many suppositions being made. One is the supposition that by reclaiming space, we take slaves. This is not confirmed. This is something that is simply supposed. No evidence of this exists. Further, it is supposed that slavery and the status quo can simply up and end. Also not likely, but theoretically possible. The nature of the situation is one of waiting and hoping. We are fighting a war that can not simply be fought defensively. Initiative is a crucial thing, and offensive operations are a better course of action. I would venture that we are anti-slavery, wish for change, and understand that it is slow in coming. However, as the number of anti-slavery capsuleers grows, I can hope for that eventual change. That is about tomorrow. Today, I have enemies at my door. Call our stance empty if you will, but the reality of the moment is, we have a war to fight. I can simply say my organization is against the practice. With any luck, the Empire's political view will eventually change and this will all be moot. In the meantime, the best we can do is increase our influence. |
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
173
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 15:55:00 -
[77] - Quote
Ryven Krennel wrote:One is the supposition that by reclaiming space, we take slaves. This is not confirmed. This is something that is simply supposed. No evidence of this exists. *Cough*
All evidence so far has been that the Amarrian Reclaiming is about taking slaves. Every instance of Reclaiming was to take slaves. Some of the Amarr on this very forum have claimed to take prisoners of war as slaves.
The only evidence we have to the contrary is some Amarr on IGS claiming that this time, this is totally not the case. |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
21
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 16:44:00 -
[78] - Quote
All the evidence you are pointing to so far is historical, i.e. a long time ago, or hearsay. I asked for evidence, not anecdotes. |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
21
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 16:48:00 -
[79] - Quote
And, incidentally, slavery is a means to an end, not an end of its own. People seem to forget that. While slavery was a consequence of past reclaimings, it is a means to the end of bringing people to God. That is still the purpose of Reclaiming. I simply feel there should be other means to that end. |
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
173
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 17:25:00 -
[80] - Quote
Ryven Krennel wrote:I simply feel there should be other means to that end. Yes. But it does not matter to the Empire what you feel. And your actions within the 24th Imperial Crusade further the goals of the Empire.
So I take it you accept that conquest and slavery are results of your actions, even though you would personally prefer otherwise. Thank you for the clarification. |
|
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
21
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 19:48:00 -
[81] - Quote
I love how a Matari is telling me how the Empire works, and then pleasantly dismissing me through his teeth. You would think an Amarr group opposed to slavery would be percieved as a good thing by the Matar, and that I would be battling verbally with the Amarrian conservative bloc. Instead, I am being grilled by the Matari. Who knew? There's just no way to talk with your people, is there? |
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
177
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 19:53:00 -
[82] - Quote
Ryven Krennel wrote:I love how a Matari is telling me how the Empire works Having worked there for over two decades, I do have some insight.
Quote:You would think an Amarr group opposed to slavery would be percieved as a good thing by the Matar Oh, yes.
The problem here is, though, that your words are opposed to slavery, while your actions promote it.
You are at war with my nation, you know. Your pilots have tried to conquer our systems, and your Empire wishes to eradicate our Republic.
What do you want?
A hug? |
Eran Mintor
Imperial Outlaws
3
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 20:49:00 -
[83] - Quote
Arkady Sadik wrote:Ryven Krennel wrote:I love how a Matari is telling me how the Empire works Having worked there for over two decades, I do have some insight. Quote:You would think an Amarr group opposed to slavery would be percieved as a good thing by the Matar Oh, yes. The problem here is, though, that your words are opposed to slavery, while your actions promote it. You are at war with my nation, you know. Your pilots have tried to conquer our systems, and your Empire wishes to eradicate our Republic. What do you want? A hug?
Mr. Sadik,
Your logic that we promote slavery because we defend the Amarr Empire is like saying you promote prostitution or other actions of your relatives simply because you defend and protect them. We have our reasons for being in the Empire, and furthermore, our reasons for being in the militia, and a lot of it happens to do with protecting what is close to us. Slavery is an ugly bit of the Empire, but to abandon the Empire because of its misgivings would be irresponsible. The Empire must be changed from the inside, because I can tell you all the work that you, the Minmatar militia, and I used to do has done very little to change the Empire's stance on slavery or anything else, for that matter.
The Empire must be defended. The stance of many in the Republic is no less free of sin or guilt than some slavers from the Empire; Minmatar everywhere have the desire to see the Empire and all it's people burn with no chance of mercy. Such longing for vengeance and love of hatred is just as disgusting to me, as is slavery in the Empire.
So yes, look in the mirror is all I'm saying.
Now, as to our "actions", well, I'll let you see for yourself. But yes, all this posturing and words on these forums can be quite tiring and pointless. I'll see you in space.
|
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
21
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 20:59:00 -
[84] - Quote
Yes, of course. Remind me again, why we are fighting? Oh, right! Someone dropped a titan in Amarrian sovereign space. I forget who that was. Hold on, it'll come to me. Oh, right. The Minmatar. So, yes, we are in your systems, fighting. Which is a standard response to an invasion, chemical attacks, and insurrections.
This is where you go to the moral high ground and say nuh uh, Amarr started it X number of centuries ago blah blah. The truth is, we were mostly alright until that damnable surprise attack from your people. |
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
177
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 21:06:00 -
[85] - Quote
Eran Mintor wrote:Your logic that we promote slavery because we defend the Amarr Empire is like saying you promote prostitution or other actions of your relatives simply because you defend and protect them. Yes, if you defend the pimps from harm, you support prostitution. More specifically, if there is a group of pimps abusing and exploiting prostitutes, and you defend them from harm, you support that abuse and exploitation.
Does that surprise you?
Quote:Slavery is an ugly bit of the Empire, but to abandon the Empire because of its misgivings would be irresponsible. The Empire must be changed from the inside, because I can tell you all the work that you, the Minmatar militia, and I used to do has done very little to change the Empire's stance on slavery or anything else, for that matter.
The Empire must be defended. The stance of many in the Republic is no less free of sin or guilt than some slavers from the Empire; Minmatar everywhere have the desire to see the Empire and all it's people burn with no chance of mercy. Such longing for vengeance and love of hatred is just as disgusting to me, as is slavery in the Empire. See, this is the sensible (and honest) argument.
What you are saying is that you defend the status quo of the Empire against an invasion (including trying to conquer Republic space, as is only sensible in a war) because you prefer to retain the Empire as is over the Empire being destroyed by an invasion. You would then still like to change the Empire, but you want to change it on your own terms.
And if that means that the free Minmatar will all be enslaved and the Republic destroyed, then that is an acceptable collateral damage to you. Acceptable, because the defense of the Empire is more important to you. |
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
177
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 21:07:00 -
[86] - Quote
Ryven Krennel wrote:This is where you go to the moral high ground I'm not interested in any moral high ground.
Are you saying that you are against slavery only so you can claim some kind of moral high ground? |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
21
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 21:37:00 -
[87] - Quote
And I am saying that you are presenting a false dichotomy. You can fight for the Empire AND against slavery. You saying otherwise doesn't make it otherwise. What the organization, 24IC promotes is its own business. Their goals and our goals are not identical. I choose to defend the Empire. That does not equal support it blindly. Change is already happening. I simply request that you stop presenting black and white binary situations. These are not black and white topics.
Also, please refrain from dictating to me what my options are. Take another long look and maybe you will find a third option. |
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
177
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 22:31:00 -
[88] - Quote
Ryven Krennel wrote:You can fight for the Empire AND against slavery. Every victory you win for the Empire promotes slavery.
You saying otherwise does not make it so. |
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
21
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 22:52:00 -
[89] - Quote
Look at the ego on you. Huge. Still so absolutist. I can't have a debate with you if you refuse to even concieve of other possibilities. |
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
177
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 23:13:00 -
[90] - Quote
Ryven Krennel wrote:Look at the ego on you. Huge. Still so absolutist. I can't have a debate with you if you refuse to even concieve of other possibilities. You know, that answer is somewhat amusing, considering I was paraphrasing your last post.
I think we can at this point agree to disagree, though.
I do not see how you can fight for the 24th Imperial Crusade, fight for the conquest of the Republic, and at the same time claim to not be supporting slavery. If the Empire ever conquers the Republic, I doubt they will ask you about what they should do with the people they conquered.
Considering we both have exchanged our arguments now, neither side has convinced the other, and this has started to get insulting - I think it's time to stop the debate.
Have a nice day. |
|
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
21
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 23:29:00 -
[91] - Quote
Good call. It's long past "starting" to get insulting. You've been subtly insulting me for several posts now. And vice versa. That's fine and dandy.
You have a nice day as well. |
Kithrus
Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance
71
|
Posted - 2011.11.05 23:30:00 -
[92] - Quote
Arkady Sadik wrote:Ryven Krennel wrote:Look at the ego on you. Huge. Still so absolutist. I can't have a debate with you if you refuse to even concieve of other possibilities. You know, that answer is somewhat amusing, considering I was paraphrasing your last post. I think we can at this point agree to disagree, though. I do not see how you can fight for the 24th Imperial Crusade, fight for the conquest of the Republic, and at the same time claim to not be supporting slavery. If the Empire ever conquers the Republic, I doubt they will ask you about what they should do with the people they conquered. Considering we both have exchanged our arguments now, neither side has convinced the other, and this has started to get insulting - I think it's time to stop the debate. Have a nice day.
No what should have ended the debate was M A D. |
DurrHurrDurr
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
171
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 07:03:00 -
[93] - Quote
Hi.
We don't like you, or your pathetic empires.
We're going to smear our ***** all over them.
Sucks to be you~
Also you're all butts. |
Capprica
Rayn Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 07:25:00 -
[94] - Quote
DurrHurrDurr wrote:Hi.
We don't like you, or your pathetic empires.
We're going to smear our ***** all over them.
Sucks to be you~
Also you're all butts.
^^ |
Dr Kang
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
111
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 09:49:00 -
[95] - Quote
Madam Speaker:
While my constituents generally consider the Right Honorable DurrHurrDurr an obnoxious bag of homosex, I must agree with my colleague from Dreddit's postulation that everyone who has posted here is a butt. And a nerd. To wit: THIS ENTIRE THREAD. I must inquire Madame Speaker, do the habitu+¬'s of faction warfare ever, in fact, shoot anyone? Or is their time spent here, on the forums bloviating and generally being butts and nerds?
Perhaps a few words of introduction are required. I am Dr Kang, UnterMarshall for Deployment Posting of TEST Alliance. We have recently moved into your area of operations and couldn't help but notice how terrible you all are. I'm afraid I have some bad news for you. We have no discernible strategic objectives in the area. We're kinda bored, fairly drunk and we aren't going anywhere. So guess what? Our Unwashed Horde is going to poop all over everything you do for a while. There's THOUSANDS of us coming through your area. Its gonna be great.
For the "lol TEST is horrible bads" crowd, perhaps I need remind you Amarr RP folks of our handy work in 9u? HAI CVA! WE MISS UR RAGTAG KITCHEN SINK FLEETS. MISS THEM FOR SHOOTING. It's true, we are horrible bads that can't do anything without goons or pl holding our hand. But you all are butts. And nerds. And we're going to shoot you.
|
Max Wilson
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 10:11:00 -
[96] - Quote
Don't think about my corp and alliance mates with there harsh words. As a official TEST diplomat, I can say: "We come in peace". |
|
CCP Spitfire
C C P C C P Alliance
1274
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 11:22:00 -
[97] - Quote
OOC and off topic posts removed.
CCP Spitfire | Russian Community Coordinator @ccp_spitfire |
|
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
385
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 12:08:00 -
[98] - Quote
Ah the old Slavery vs Genocide debate rages on, attributing either element to groups which do not actively pursue them is pointless and rather irresponsible.
You're either fighting against slavery and supporting genocide, or supporting slavery by defending against an attempt of genocide. While I'm likely one of the last people to ever support slavery in this galaxy I'll say this for it, at least it's reversible, genocide isn't.
This argument has been done to death many times now, it seems little more than a pointless propaganda war to try and justify your own side and sleeping at night. The Amarrians aren't all slaver bodyguards who wish to continue to see people held against their will, the Matari aren't all terrorists who wish nothing but death and suffering on the Amarr.
The sooner people get that notion in their head, the sooner conflicts can die down and resolution can be made with a mutually beneficial ending. Sometimes you'd think people care more for being in a war than the actual reasons they went into it in the first place. |
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
552
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 13:02:00 -
[99] - Quote
Caellach, you fell for a necroed thread. Congrats. :-) |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
386
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 14:45:00 -
[100] - Quote
[quote=Arkady Sadik]Caellach, you fell for a necroed thread. Congrats. :-)[/quote
Nonsense, I was just being fashionably late!
Still stand by my points though. |
|
DurrHurrDurr
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
177
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 15:03:00 -
[101] - Quote
Nerds. |
Nichya Derouke
Black Horizon. Test Friends Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 17:13:00 -
[102] - Quote
DurrHurrDurr wrote:Nerds.
|
Jafit McJafitson
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
125
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 18:12:00 -
[103] - Quote
Me an' my homies 'ere fink u iz well sh*t! You 'maaran muhfukas is oppressin' ma bruvahs. u fink we iz slavez yeh? We iz gonna fuk u up ma bluds gonna roll pakin' 'urricanez and mothafuckin' maystroms innit. You iz well gettin alpha'd bruv. *gang sign*
An' look dey ain't evan uzin Amarrian ships dow. Why ain'dey uzin deir own ships? We be uzin' 'urricanes and mailstroms like propa matari bruvas. My homie says 'ee saw one of you bendaz in a PANFA! Dat's a fackin' Minmatar Black Ops ba'ulship innit mate. Wot a load ov wankas coz dey ain't even stikin to dere propa ships, dey gotta steal matar bruva's ships!
By da wey yo empress iz well fit innit.
OOC: Dear CCP/Mods TEST are now roleplaying as a lost Matari tribe that happens to speak using Earth dialects of African descent, In this case my character is using Multicultural London English, please don't delete my posts as I put a lot of work into my roleplaying. This is not an elaborate troll. |
GunslingerBob
Rim Collection RC Test Alliance Please Ignore
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 18:17:00 -
[104] - Quote
TEST, as an Alliance primarily made up of Matari pilots, will be coming for you. So fight us. Meet us on the battlefield in glorious combat, and assert yourselves as the force you say you are. The "cleansing heat" of your lasers versus the shattering crash of our artillery.
The glove has been tossed, if you so dare to pick it up.
Also:
DurrHurrDurr wrote:Nerds. |
BlightedAura
Friendship is Podding Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 19:57:00 -
[105] - Quote
We have struggled against your foul oppression for too long Amarr! You will pay for the crimes that your fathers committed against the Matari race! Our vengeance will be sweep you aside, like insects before a mighty storm |
William Westmere
Black Horizon. Test Friends Please Ignore
3
|
Posted - 2012.01.10 23:03:00 -
[106] - Quote
We will encroach and pillage your homeland like you did to the matari so long ago! The hammer of TEST has fallen, and great will be the butthurt you will receive! |
Lorren Canada
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
160
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 04:33:00 -
[107] - Quote
lol fucking roleplaying pubbies. let's see how you like roleplaying getting assraped by us |
Bluejacket CT
Percussive Diplomacy
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 06:06:00 -
[108] - Quote
Lorren Canada wrote:lol fucking roleplaying pubbies. let's see how you like roleplaying getting assraped by us
You're a pubbie. SLAPD - CEO |
Silence iKillYouu
The Innocent Criminals
126
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 10:23:00 -
[109] - Quote
William Westmere wrote:We will encroach and pillage your homeland like you did to the matari so long ago! The hammer of TEST has fallen, and great will be the butthurt you will receive! Done that already Welcome to the late train https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=42662&find=unread http://fw-frontline.blogspot.com/ |
Ogi Talvanen
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
87
|
Posted - 2012.01.11 15:05:00 -
[110] - Quote
Hello Amarrians i am your new friendly overlord in Otosela! |
|
Ryven Krennel
Imperial Outlaws
71
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 16:34:00 -
[111] - Quote
TEST, You guys crack me up. If you consider losing 265 ships while only killing 32 of ours "pillaging" and spreading the "butthurt," I'm completely baffled as to how you've managed to accomplish anything in New Eden. So far, the only skill your alliance seems to excel at is filling up my local channel with inane comments. Well, that and dying repeatedly. So, allow me to officially welcome you to our little home, and say, stay a while! It's been quite a pleasure picking you guys off. Oh, and, just so you know: you aren't disrupting our operations in any way, whatsoever. Cheers.
Sincerely, Ryven Krennel Diplomatic Director Imperial Outlaws [I.LAW] |
Bob McGenericname
Angry Mustellid
7
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 08:04:00 -
[112] - Quote
You know, when I enlisted in the 24th, they gave us a brief seminar on how to send personal messages via a system called 'evemail', since accidentally posting smacktalk and personal requests in public could embarrass not only you and your corporation, but the overall Crusade. I gather from both this thread and Mr. Amelana's that the seminar now consists of one slide that says "**** it, post it on the IGS". What else has changed? |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
689
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 08:21:00 -
[113] - Quote
The late train you say?
You seem to be late in noticing the Amarrian gains since your declaration of "mission accomplished"
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
401
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 13:24:00 -
[114] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:The late train you say? You seem to be late in noticing the Amarrian gains since your declaration of "mission accomplished"
I like how you highlight this the day it actually becomes relative again.
But indeed, pretty much as soon as some of the Matari started chest beating the Amarr and their Caldari allies reduced all Matari progression to zero, and began taking their own border systems. This trend seems to be turning once again however. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
689
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 15:22:00 -
[115] - Quote
Caellach Marellus wrote:Rodj Blake wrote:The late train you say? You seem to be late in noticing the Amarrian gains since your declaration of "mission accomplished" I like how you highlight this the day it actually becomes relative again. But indeed, pretty much as soon as some of the Matari started chest beating the Amarr and their Caldari allies reduced all Matari progression to zero, and began taking their own border systems. This trend seems to be turning once again however.
It's in the nature of this conflict that the tides of war flow first one way and the other.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
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Posted - 2012.01.23 19:30:00 -
[116] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:Caellach Marellus wrote:Rodj Blake wrote:The late train you say? You seem to be late in noticing the Amarrian gains since your declaration of "mission accomplished" I like how you highlight this the day it actually becomes relative again. But indeed, pretty much as soon as some of the Matari started chest beating the Amarr and their Caldari allies reduced all Matari progression to zero, and began taking their own border systems. This trend seems to be turning once again however. It's in the nature of this conflict that the tides of war flow first one way and the other.
It certainly has more consistency and less extremes than the Caldari/Gallente war. |
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