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Manufacturer
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Posted - 2003.07.25 12:53:00 -
[1]
I was just wondering. There is allready a lot of Battleships out there. Dont know if CCP had this in their planning. But if they did, I start to wonder. As in a month or two BattleShips will be as usual as cruisers are now. Then what? Release titans and repeat same that has happened with cruiser/BS?
What will the endgame be? 500 ppl who are left flying around in their titans and whacking lowbie pirates?
Sure, you can add more technology, more equipment, but still. Ppl will still be in the top notch ships.
anyone else feel like this Eve World will be done growing in under a year?
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MIcroMiner
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Posted - 2003.07.25 12:56:00 -
[2]
This scenario is ver plausible, one way to assist in offsetting this future is to utilize more frequently the option that CCP built into the game so well called corporation wars.
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Manufacturer
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Posted - 2003.07.25 12:57:00 -
[3]
Well, as most big corps stay far away from corp wars. As they know its bad bad for buisness. I dont think that is very likely to happen I must admit.
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Bogusheadbox
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Posted - 2003.07.25 13:00:00 -
[4]
You are forgetting the content *cough* that will have to be introduced. there are now full scale wars going on, and there will be many more. Not to mention if CCP put any content *cough* in there will be race wars as well.
You will need to mine, you will need to fight, you will need to trade for resources. If CCP can get the market fixed and and have special items that are only obtainable by certain constellations - then that will be more than enough things for you to do to just stay alive. You may get your battleship in a few months. But will you be able to keep it???
Hmmmmmm ???????
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2003.07.25 13:10:00 -
[5]
>>
Well, as most big corps stay far away from corp wars. As they know its bad bad for buisness. I dont think that is very likely to happen I must admit.
>>
Next time someone complains about corps flooding the markets with BPs or a corp undercutting everyone's prices to just above mineral production costs, think about what you just said about wars not being profitable. Just because you don't earn money immediately as a result of the war doesn't mean that you can't benefit from one. Sadly it is mostly too late for cruisers - I wonder if anyone will go to war over battleship price wars before it gets too late?
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Anderi Bourdieu
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Posted - 2003.07.25 13:20:00 -
[6]
Though I hate to add to the moping...and it probably IS too early to know where EVE is going...the game is different now then when I first started a week after release. There is no denying the 'advantages' players in 'that' game have over players in 'this' game. But let's not argue over the details, please.
I have been playing a new character. No money support from alts, doing the tutorial and everything just like a new player, and it is a lot easier now. Prices are dirt cheap and you can get out of a noob ship in two mining runs. I remember when I got my Imicus, I was so proud. Now, it sits rusting in my hangar.
In my opinion however, CCP did make a classic cooking error. They added too much too early, now they can't take it away. Too many BPs most likely. It would have been better to have people complaining about not enough BPs and then add them as needed, than to flood the market with them and have no way to take them back without major rebellion from the players.
I know, there is going to be Tech 2. Ok. I hope CCP learns a lesson from Tech 1.
-----------------------------------------------
11/17/04
Are Formal Contracts in yet?
Divisional Wallets?
Taxes?
BP lockdown? |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.25 13:23:00 -
[7]
I spent a lot of my last 2-3 years playing Unreal Tournament iCTF.
The first day I tried it, I had *all* the weapons (there's only one in ictf, and you spawn with it). But it didn't make it boring.
One gun, 16 maps, one internet connection = 3 years of gameplay.
now... the game wouldn't have had what it takes to keep me occupied that long as a single player, but I joined a clan. We fought side-by-side, we used/improved our tactics, our teamwork came together, and we had a great time doing it. Because of the people I played with, and most of the people I played against, I would have been happy playing the same 16 maps for another year.
Sadly for the Euro UT scene, I got Eve, and was hooked in about 2 hours flat. End of story.
It's all about the people, people.
But I don't see having the biggest weapons and the shiniest ship as being 'endgame' here. Everyone getting huge ships and powerful guns is only the warmup to the opening ceremony.
And don't be fooled into thinking that what you see at the moment is all that there will ever be. There is nothing written that says you won't see a level 4-5 cruiser or frigate.
Or even a level 5 titan, which, at a guess would take 3 months of solid training just to get from lvl4 to 5.
Worry not, and let the future bring what it will.
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StealthNet
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Posted - 2003.07.25 13:38:00 -
[8]
I think you are missing something... ships are secondary, modules are primary. Every single player may have a battleship, but this won't make a difference, because how you fit is all.
That will be really important when research kicks in, along with some decent tech lvl2 items.
Just a quick example: a megathron equipped with the guns atm in the game is completely different from the same megathron, equipped with some tech lvl2 PDS and guns...
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Mitchman
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Posted - 2003.07.25 13:50:00 -
[9]
And as for the theory that everybody will drive Titans, you should realize that a Titan will just be a heavily armed (but less capable in many areas than a BS) industrial. It will not replace a battleship.
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Ulendar
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Posted - 2003.07.25 13:51:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Ulendar on 25/07/2003 13:56:48
You also forgetting the fact a a stratecig group of cruiser can knock the pants of any battleship fleet...
The cruiser are cheaper, expendable, easy to build...battleships arent..
Call me silly but when i go to war i will use a mixture of frigates, cruisers and a very limited amount of battleship for heavy support...
You want to face me with you battleship only armade? Id say your in for an asskicking!
battleships are long range heavy artiliry ships...they are not ment for pointassaults. Cruisers would be pointassault ships and frigates are fast assault.
Then there is a whole bunch of weapon and module tactics, eccm, ew, close range point assaults, long range sniper assault (for a battlehsip for example).
The clue to win a battle will be preparation, inteligence and tactics...
If your just going to rig all your pilots with heavy damage ships and then head out to fight with 5 bships and 10 cruisers and run into an equally equiped force who DID do its homework your all gonne be heading back home in pods or rookieships.
The bigger gun does not always win. This is rarely a fact and most of the time this fact comes forward when 2 sologuys meet on the field and have at it. The guy with the biggest guns will win in this case. However that aprt of PvP is merely a very small part of the total PvP idea behind EVE. If CCP wasnt planning on more then that they would have made all these modules and ammo types!
Also, Mitchman is right. A TITAN will not be THE combat ship in EVE. Infact its stats refer more to an industrial or support ship and not a typical combat ship...
The titan has very little shield and armor compared to most battleships. Battleships will remain the behemots of combat after the titan is introduced. I think many large corps will use the titan in mining operation primairly...ofcourse its also one hell of a tradeship and supportship. It can repair and resupply frigates and even cruisers (i think) in combat and can be used as a kind of mobile station.
Hence the titan is much much more then just the bigger fish, it will be much more valuable then just a bigger combatship and infact it wont be just a bigger combat ship, unless you want to rig it with hull repairers instead of shieldboosters.
All in all i think you (creater of thread) are thinking much to linear. EVE is mainly an rp game, its what you make of it...if you make it dull with linear goals such as your the next best ship goal it will infact BE dull.
Try and do something more chalenging for a change, i guarantee youl love it. I know, i was like you not to long ago before i pulled my head out of my ass and used my imagination. Now i'm having tons of fun...you should try it! You might like it ;)
 Originally by: cashman
It's time for Eris to get a clue. CCP should make a statement about this.
It's the exact same things as what Zombie did, you may not attack in "safe-areas" (empire/within sentry range) without loosing your ship.
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Koinski
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Posted - 2003.07.25 15:26:00 -
[11]
Also, i read somhwere that a Titan takes the full resources of a small planet or moon to build. I would expect that before seeing the first Titan, we would see player stations, mining structures that are able to deplete planets and so on.
(I believe CCP have learned their lesson about letting people get too much too fast).
Anyway, the endgame ship at this point would be a level 5 Jove Titan. And i can't see any thing like that in a timeframe we would call "soon".
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Beowulf I
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Posted - 2003.07.25 15:37:00 -
[12]
hmm what next,
How about new ships like a Destroyer class, between a cruser and a Battle Ship.
Player Run Stations
Player Run Jump Gates
Surface Mining on Plants/Moons ohhh even planet side combat
Well were are set in space so alien races.
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Larry Wall
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Posted - 2003.07.25 15:42:00 -
[13]
It takes what? Two nights of mining solo to gather enough mineral to build a cruiser assuming you don't play eight hours a day like some people. Now battleships takes about ten times that long, so that is like weeks. A titan takes what? Ten times as long as battleships, so that would be like more than seven months to build one by yourself. If you get corp mates to help you, then you have to build one for each of your corp mates.
Then you start getting to tech level 5 stuff, and it's all zydrine, megacyte, and biomess, so let's say you triple the time--Jovian Titan takes three years each to build solo? It'll sure take a while to outfit everybody in corp with one of those. Then you add the endless corp wars to control the increasingly valuable megacyte/biomess supply...heck by then even World of Warcraft would be out.
I wouldn't worry about it.
Larry Wall
Not quite suffering from deep space dementia yet...
...but will if he doesn't get back to...
...a system without number or dash in the name soon... |
Klydor
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Posted - 2003.07.25 15:46:00 -
[14]
TBH I think that players are advancing at around the rate CCP would like.
After all the main story arc will at some stage involve fighting, and it will be much more fun watching armardas fight, than it would be watching a few bantoms.
Plus battleships are only the beginning! There are many many ways for ships to evolve in the future that could make even battleships obsolete.
Lets just see where ccp are going to take us on this one :)
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.25 15:47:00 -
[15]
someone said that a titan will take months to mine for if solo, but by the time they are available, people will have higher tech mining lasers (TTi nexus has one listed at ~150 opm) which will reduce mining times. Add this to the extra mining skills that should be available by then, and the time taken will dorp considerably.
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Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.07.25 15:55:00 -
[16]
Higher tech level vessels will not only require minerals, but service goods such as mechanical parts, robotics, etc.
Also, I doubt there'll be a blueprint publically available.
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Wotok
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Posted - 2003.07.25 16:08:00 -
[17]
Oh no, not again 
You always forget the ne BPs / Techlevels.
The actual Battleships could be outdated in let's say 9 months. Every new up-to-date cruiser will rule the old battleships.
The game isn't static. There perhaps will be frigates with ne types of armor which will be equivalent to today's 1500mm armor. There will be new type of weapons which only can be mounted on brand new cruisers...and so on...
Got the point?
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Wotok has no brain! |
Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2003.07.25 16:11:00 -
[18]
What really needs to be done, is to have more balance between the different types of ship.
At present everyone just rushes for the next biggest ship. The devs. need to find some way of making frigates (and even cruisers) viable in war etc.
That way, the 'everyone in Battleships' scenario might yet be avoided.
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Xane
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Posted - 2003.07.25 16:12:00 -
[19]
I think he's right, take a look at Everquest, everyone was Level 60 in the first few months and now no-one plays it at all !
x a n e |
Karkoo
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Posted - 2003.07.25 16:20:00 -
[20]
Was all these faults not noticed in beta, did ccp not pay attention to beta?
I did not take part in beta but have been playing since first week of release in the UK. Like most players I get bored leave the game but always come back cause I know that there is so much potential in there.
Battleships may become the new cruiser as cruisers became the new frigate, but over the last week I have seen many more frigates flying about. ( could be more people using them to get a better fight with NPC pirates ).
I dont believe that everyone will have titans and I cant wait to hear the first person cry and moan when they are stupid enough to put it in danger of loosing it.
BP in the future should become like gold dust and not constantly appeare at the same station or cache for the big corps to get there hands on.
This game is only three months old. Most of the bugs are getting ironed out although some new ones keep appearing and even some old ones appeare again.
And I do believe it will be the setup of your ship that will be the main thing and not what ship you are flying.
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Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.07.25 16:39:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Dragon Emperor on 25/07/2003 16:42:08
You guys said "bigger gun won't always win" miss 1 thing: bigger ship doesn't mean bigger gun, ship is just a platform, bigger ship has more slots than smaller ship, anything you can fit on smaller ship, bigger ship can fit more...... So 10 BS own 10 cruisers, that's for sure if BS pilots are not idiots. money wise? 10 BS vs 10 cruisers, Those 10 BS most likely won't lose a single ship while 10 cruisers all destroied...... so which side will have better echonomy?
BTW, ships are easy to replace even it's battleship, however modules are not, for this point, cruisers are also not that easy to replace.
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Elias Root
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Posted - 2003.07.25 17:59:00 -
[22]
I don't think anyone would argue that a force of 10 battleships fighting 10 cruisers is going to loose. It's more about the limitations of relying only on the strength of your battleship and the weapons it has at the expense of the advantage that could be offered by clever combinations of various other ships.
And this is why we won't see eve populated entirely by players in battleships - some of us recognize that a well structured force using a combination of ship types and modules provide strengths beyond what can be gained only by having lots of guns on a heavily armoured platform.
To quote Sun Tzu:
"To ensure that your whole host may withstand the brunt of the enemy's attack and remain unshaken - this is effected by maneuvres direct and indirect.
"That the effect of your army may be like a grindstone dashed against an egg - this is effected by the science of weak points and strong.
"In all fighting, the direct method may be used for joining battle, but indirect methods will be needed in order to secure victory.
"Indirect tactics, efficiently applied, are inexhaustible as Heaven and Earth, unending as the flow of rivers and streeams; like the sun and moon, they end but to begin anew; like the four seasons, they pass away to return once more.
"There are not more than five musical notes, yet the combinations of these five give rise to more melodies than can ever be heard.
"There are not more than five primary colours (blue, yellow, red, white and black), yet in combination they produce more hues than can ever be seen.
"There are not more than five cardinal tastes (sour, acrid, salt, sweet, bitter), yet combinations of them yield more flavours than can ever be tasted.
"In battle, there are not more than two methods of attack - the direct and the indirect; yet these two in combination give rise to an endless series of maneuvres."
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Ehxo
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Posted - 2003.07.25 21:00:00 -
[23]
Every world has a limit man, and if you think that the game will stop when everybody has a titan then you are mistaken. First, Titans will be a VERY RARE thing because they will cost WAY to much for small corps to have, and will take a very long time to build. Also, the game isn't all about getting a bigger and bigger ship as soon as you can... it's a political game, not a flight sim game.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.07.25 21:19:00 -
[24]
Edited by: j0sephine on 25/07/2003 21:26:59
"You guys said "bigger gun won't always win" miss 1 thing: bigger ship doesn't mean bigger gun, ship is just a platform, bigger ship has more slots than smaller ship, anything you can fit on smaller ship, bigger ship can fit more......"
Note though, since number of slots on the battleship isn't that greater, the bigger ship cannot fit that many more of modules... the increase of functionality and versatility is not really proportional to the increase of vessel cost.
"So 10 BS own 10 cruisers, that's for sure if BS pilots are not idiots. money wise? 10 BS vs 10 cruisers, Those 10 BS most likely won't lose a single ship while 10 cruisers all destroied...... so which side will have better echonomy?"
Ohh, but dear, that's such unbalanced scenario it's not even funny. Now, calculate amount of money needed to built and equip those 10 battleships... spend the same amount on a fleet of cruisers. Try to predict the battle outcome now?..
... other than the server's warp to desktop due to local stress overload, anyway... :s
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Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.07.25 21:39:00 -
[25]
j0sephine, even you can equip 1000 cruiser with same money(more like 100 though), Do you have 1000 pilots with you? So that's not the case.
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LetoII
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Posted - 2003.07.25 22:19:00 -
[26]
you know very well that her point wasnt that she had 1000 pilots. but alot of corps have 20-25 people able to fly cruisers that can suely destroy your complement of 10 battleships.
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Arraman
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Posted - 2003.07.25 22:54:00 -
[27]
This game is all about items and almost nothing about skills or attributes, wich will kill the game in the end. Surely its not all bad with items but the skills play a to less part in this game. If you lose your mega-super-duper weapon wich was really hard to come by you will start looking for a nother way to spend your leasure time. Skills you get to keep however(clone solution is a real stupid idea.). Wich leads to another problem, skill cap. Theere isn't a cap, so all players have the same skills, all of them...
I will give this game some time still, but they need to remove the frigging traveling system. 40 min's jumping is a poor way to spend valuable game time. Let us make bookmarks once we have visited the system and insta travel there if we'd like to. Let the corp. hangar be accessable on any station so we can re-equip faster without 40 min's of boring gate jumping.
They should have more players then lousy 10.000 accounts by now and its almost never above 5000 online yet.
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Thaddius Engle
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Posted - 2003.07.26 01:04:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Thaddius Engle on 26/07/2003 01:06:02
[url=http://myeve.eve-online.com/screenshots/?screenID=40]Screenshot of Titan next to Tempest[/url]
Pretty impressive... I think titans will probably take more minerals than a station to build... they're certainly big enough  |
Magallen
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Posted - 2003.07.26 01:38:00 -
[29]
Well elite frigates will be the first of a series of new ships to arrive for EVE. I also heard of a new class of Battleships that are quite stronger then the ones we have but are more expensive as well. Think along the lines of Dreadnought Battleships.
CCP also plans on making the smaller less expensive ships a better asset in times of war. Say perhaps frigates that can play the role of fighter/bomber vs capitol ships, WW2 style lol.
Jovian technology and ships will soon be available to players. AI ships from the ones we see now and even CONCORD ships will soon be in the markets or at least avialable in some other fashion as in agents and connection levels to certain factions.
Their will be ships and technology that will be very hard to come by but worth having. In fact some people won't bother persuing these difficult feats and be content with the ships they have now and some others with particular taste will want to persue those ships that are out of market (AI Ships) or others.
We have only seen the beginning of EVE and CCP will be adding more content, ships, items, skills and other things later on. This is what MMORPG's do and EVE is no exception.
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Darth Maul
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Posted - 2003.07.26 01:50:00 -
[30]
I tend to agree with Magellan on this one... supposedly everything in the game now is going to look like noob gear once Tech 2 and Jove stuff is fully integrated.. soo having a lot of the current BB's flying about really isn't that big of a deal.
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Roba
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Posted - 2003.07.26 02:29:00 -
[31]
Also if anyone has read CCPs dicrpition of Jove tech and the Jove titans they make all else look like nothing. The Jove titians are described as ships that dwarf most other titians and as 'motherships'. It seems that there will be diffrent classes of Titians, carriers, industrial, extremely heavy assult. They are said to be a ship that can turn a battle just by showing up with its weaponry but the titian we have seen doesn't seem to be much of a heavy assult ship but more of a industrial or carrier.
Also frigates have not become usless. I have been able to knock of an few crusiers out with a kestrel armed with heavy missiles. Passive targeting. Frigates are fast and I had 2 waves of thunderbolts and one wave of havocs in the air before the first impact alerted the gate camper. Guys always try to warp when they see that many missiles but the crusiers take to long to ajust course and warp.
What I am saying is a group of missile boats commanded by capitans with maxed out skills in missiles and speed are able to knock out one crusier and thenussually warp out before they can have the crap knocked outa them. Same thing would go for missile crusiers like a caracal which can dish out 2000+ dmg in one wave of torps, combine that with a MWD and I think 4 Caracals would have pretty good chances in a ambush of a battle group of b-ships.
Tactics are important, more then how big your ship is.
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Validus
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Posted - 2003.07.26 02:31:00 -
[32]
a newb ship, 2 X 75mm rails and some antimatter ammo, what possibly could be more fun? maybe 10 aside mini battles?
I think your own imagination should come into play with this game.
What they should do is make the shuttles kick cans further, then we can invent shuttle football 
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2003.07.26 02:33:00 -
[33]
People who try to Mine solo with titans in an asteroid belt are going to be bitterly, bitterly sorry if any pirate notices them. ;)
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Dragon Emperor
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Posted - 2003.07.26 04:42:00 -
[34]
I don't think anybody will fly titan alone unless it's .8+ space......Don't think you are smarter than rest of the world, the truth is different.
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Scrapyard Jack
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Posted - 2003.07.26 05:13:00 -
[35]
Scrapyard Jack is happy to pootle around in a frigate, so long as there's fun to be had.
But then, Scrapyard Jack is comfortable with the size of his manhood, and doesn't need a honking great battleship to replace it.
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Deridium
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Posted - 2003.07.27 13:44:00 -
[36]
Hope CCP pulls it together. love the game.
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Nerhtal Al'Thali
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Posted - 2003.07.27 14:11:00 -
[37]
frigates are damn nice :) ive faught battleships in frigates and survived, just not killed a battleship...ooh and i have died... 4 battleships is too much for 3 frigates and 2 cruisers to take on mwahaha
"Game Experience And Dev Opinions May Change With The Time Of Day During Online Play"
Oveur
"First in, last out"
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