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Jex Jast
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Posted - 2005.08.30 23:37:00 -
[1]
This is kind of a complaint but more an opening for a discussion and some question answering:
Rule: You can not escape CONCORD or else it is considered an exploit.
Rumor: Invincible CONCORD ships can spawn. (I wish I knew where I read this)
Condition: Gate sentries are extremely strong.
Condition: CONCORD spawns are made to pwn you - 5 BSes to a cruiser, approx.
Condition: 1.0-0.5 space is the same, save for a bit fewer CONCORDs and more/stronger NPC pirates.
Now, if you consider the rule on top, why does it matter that there are fewer CONCORDs in 0.5 to kill you? You still have to die.
The rumor: I don't know if this is true, but I would say having an invincible ship is more of an explot than escaping law enforcement. Look at a RL comparison (not like Eve is realistic but, common sense here): You will never find a cop who doesn't die, but you sure as heck will find criminals that escape the police. So IMO, making it a bannable offense to escape CONCORD's wrath is...how to put it nicely...dumb. Does anyone know whether it's always been this way or whether it was implemented later due to complaints?
And with the tiny difference between 0.5 and 1.0, maybe PvP should be allowed in let's say 0.5-0.7 but CONCORD still comes after you...since they're weaker there anyway, if you were allowed to escape, this would work out better methinks.
So topics of discussion:
CONCORD too strong?
Bad that CONCORD is bannably inescapable?
Bad that there isn't enough difference between 1.0 and 0.5?
What should CCP do to fix this stuff?
_____________________________________________
Kills: 0
Repeats: 0
Bounties Collected...you guessed it.
Gotta get these numbers off the ground. |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.08.30 23:43:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 30/08/2005 23:43:27
CONCORD is not invincible. Its just that if you kill one, five more will come. Like a hydra.
--
Proud member of the [23].
Selling Capital Cargo Bays and Kernite Mining Crystal IIs, cheaper than anyone else. |
Kahn Moquil
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Posted - 2005.08.30 23:43:00 -
[3]
Not everybody wants to play a game where they can get shot at all the time. If you don't like Concord, go play in low sec or 0.0. There's more space in EvE where you can shoot people than safe space anyway.
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Sumica
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Posted - 2005.08.30 23:44:00 -
[4]
You could always just have them implement a GTA kind of system.
Such as you fire on some one you get a concord frigshowing up to pester you.
you take some one in to strcture you get say 2 frigs or perhaps a cruiser in higher sec.
Blow up a ship you get 2 cruisers.
I think you can see where I am going with this. Make the agro scaleable.
Your not stupid just misinformed Ö
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.08.30 23:47:00 -
[5]
scalable aggro responses u think mmm ?
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Gierling
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Posted - 2005.08.30 23:50:00 -
[6]
I think that Concord and law enforcement should be player driven.
Bastards we are lest Bastards we become. |
sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.08.30 23:52:00 -
[7]
u think they should be player driven - how so ?
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MarkX
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Posted - 2005.08.31 00:00:00 -
[8]
If you remember over a year ago, CONCORD was weak and could be dealt with.
If you remember, ZOMBIE CORP crippled the Yulai region last year. And as a result, CCP had to adjust the damage on all CONCORD vessels to make sure nothing like this ever happens again.
They are there to police all high sec regions, and I think the damage is fair. Its meant to blow you up ASAP ;)
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.08.31 00:09:00 -
[9]
fair point now watch for dreads in low sec taking out gate guns - perhaps 5 dreads could do it in siege mode lol
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Gierling
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Posted - 2005.08.31 00:11:00 -
[10]
I think that the pirates and the law should have life and death struggles against each other.
Yes, there will still be npc's to even things out...
But imagine Viceroy blowing up the Concord Depot in Orvolle and turn it to a 0.4...
The flipside being that Concord could chase his ass out into PF and further (being as they are players).
Eventually you'd want to balance it, by making the pirates have real advantages too. Like say in serpentis territory if you have a positive sec status the sentry guns shoot you.
Then you distribute it so that there are certain things yo ucan oonly get in lawless space and certian things you can only get in empire.
Then its easy enough to put Concord and the Pirates against each other.
Bastards we are lest Bastards we become. |
DrSeuss
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Posted - 2005.08.31 01:28:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Gierling
I think that Concord and law enforcement should be player driven.
2 comments on this idea
1) Reward isnt great enough to attract people for the job {AKA Bounty hunting}
2) Give a player the power of concord? Heh every PvPer would go for it and you would be worse off than before
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Hamatitio
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Posted - 2005.08.31 01:53:00 -
[12]
"That crusader is speeding"
<players open fire>
*crusader dies*
"There we go, oh hey, that hauler is holding up the whole line"
------
Director of Ganking:
Deathrow Inc |
Jex Jast
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Posted - 2005.08.31 02:05:00 -
[13]
Okay it has turned into a decent discussion but I strayed too far from my main topic: insecapable CONCORD, is it too much, or is it fine?
I'd say they can make whatever they want spawn but making it bannable to escape is stupid. If you can escape 5 bses against your 1 cruiser you are very lucky, skilled, or tanked, or a combination of them all.
_____________________________________________
Kills: 0
Repeats: 0
Bounties Collected...you guessed it.
Gotta get these numbers off the ground. |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.31 02:20:00 -
[14]
"Okay it has turned into a decent discussion but I strayed too far from my main topic: insecapable CONCORD, is it too much, or is it fine?
I'd say they can make whatever they want spawn but making it bannable to escape is stupid. If you can escape 5 bses against your 1 cruiser you are very lucky, skilled, or tanked, or a combination of them all."
If you "break law" in secure space you're to be automatically punished for what you did. No ifs, buts, leeways and i-didn't-knows.
The CONCORD is provided merely so the punishment fits the game world as far as visuals go. It could as well be your ship automatically exploding instead, as soon as you 'do the wrong'
("dodge this")
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Jex Jast
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Posted - 2005.08.31 02:33:00 -
[15]
I know what you mean but you're missing the point: you can commit any crime you want, in any place you want, and still have a chance of getting away without God smiting you. I could walk into a hotel and rob the richest person there, in the middle of a city that's loaded with good citizens who will call the cops, the cops can come running but I can still escape. It's not about ifs, buts, and i-didnt-knows, its about "I did know, and chose to do it, and I'm going to try and get away with it"
There's the point: getting away with something. If anyone who did something wrong was caught, no one would do anything wrong anymore because they'd all be caught.
Why should it be an exploit to escape law enforcement?
_____________________________________________
Kills: 0
Repeats: 0
Bounties Collected...you guessed it.
Gotta get these numbers off the ground. |
Khatred
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Posted - 2005.08.31 02:41:00 -
[16]
This is a matter where you can't compare RL with Eve. There are many examples as of why you shouldn't escape Concord but the first one that comes to my mind is: miners.
With the angry mob being already lynch happy  because of the macro miners, if there is at least one way to destroy a ship in 0.5+ and escape concord, basicaly no miner will be safe anywhere. Add the fact that mining barges are easily destroyable so the only ones who will mine will be those in Apocs and those with a logistic ship boosting them forever . Not to mention the never missing griefers that lurk in any mmorpg.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.31 02:48:00 -
[17]
Edited by: j0sephine on 31/08/2005 02:51:47
"There's the point: getting away with something. If anyone who did something wrong was caught, no one would do anything wrong anymore because they'd all be caught.
Why should it be an exploit to escape law enforcement?:"
You answered your own question -- the point of this infallible 'law enforcement' is to ensure people don't "break the law" in places where such law exists. Because when it happens, people that get harmed in the places where they expect not be harmed, cry and file lots of petitions, overloading already stressed game customer service. :s
In GTA it's "okay" if you can escape the police, because the only person playing this particular instance of the game is you, and the only things you harm and destroy are NPCs. In multiplayer games if you shoot someone that you wasn't supposed to, that's real people and they want to know you've been punished for it, not that you've managed to fool the dumb NPCs and now safely smack your victims in local.
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Herko Kerghans
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Posted - 2005.08.31 02:54:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Herko Kerghans on 31/08/2005 02:55:11
Originally by: Jex Jast
There's the point: getting away with something. If anyone who did something wrong was caught, no one would do anything wrong anymore because they'd all be caught.
Why should it be an exploit to escape law enforcement?
Because, in RL, punishment to law offenders has as much to do with the probability of getting caught, as with what happens after you get caught.
If you don't escape, maybe you'll gate locked for a very long time... or even "removed" from the game, aka electric chair.
EVE has an inescapable, very light punishing system: they always get you, but they just "fine" you (you lose your ship = isk) and/or demand you some time hunting rats (and making money, go figure)
Plus, of course, it's not inescapable at all. Ever heard of ganking alts?
-
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Not enough punishment
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Jex Jast
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Posted - 2005.08.31 03:04:00 -
[19]
Herko makes a good point, and I concede.
But I just want to say that I make no reference to GTA in escaping the law. In RL you still are hurting real people in committing crime, more badly than you are in Eve, so you can't use GTA as an excuse. That is a game of fiction anyhow, in which you are supposed to commit crimes so they make the cops weak and dumb. EVE is also a game of fiction but it is also supposed to imitate life in most aspects, for example choosing professions and interacting with tons of real people.
_____________________________________________
Kills: 0
Repeats: 0
Bounties Collected...you guessed it.
Gotta get these numbers off the ground. |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.08.31 03:19:00 -
[20]
Edited by: j0sephine on 31/08/2005 03:19:43
"EVE is also a game of fiction but it is also supposed to imitate life in most aspects, for example choosing professions and interacting with tons of real people."
OK, EVE imitates life some dozens of thousands of years in the future, light years away from Earth as we know it... in universe where the police is incredibly more efficient than what we have nowadays, and *always* gets the suspect.
I mean, it's a world when you don't even *die* or learn things like we all do. Why should this particular aspect (police efficiency) of their universe resemble ours..?
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Van Cleef
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Posted - 2005.08.31 03:43:00 -
[21]
So you would rather have escapable Concord, but if you get caught you get put in jail for 10 days real time (just like your real life comparison) and cannot play?
This is a game where real life comparisons can apply in only a few circumstances. There is NO criminal justice system other than Concord, so Concord must be the "Judge Dread" or law enforcement.
------------------------------------------------
Serve the State
Join Channel CAINCOM |
Hakera
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Posted - 2005.08.31 03:51:00 -
[22]
Concord should stay in 0.5+ however low sec I would have a graded faction military response and get rid of sentries based on faction standing and location.
Graded being increasingly bigger and meaner npc's turn up the longer you stay and commit offences, instead of a sec hit, you get a faction hit as pirating in their space, they aint going to like you much.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Sobeseki Pawi
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Posted - 2005.08.31 03:55:00 -
[23]
Scaling responce is good imo. But in higher sec the responce should be overwhelming anyway.
Also, CONCORD fighting npc pirates much like players do would be awesome for immersion. Not to mention CONCORD spawns in low sec (0.4 and lower) that aren't uber, but let pirate players shoot at the law and not just other players.
~Captain Cutie, Razor's Kiss |
Hakera
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Posted - 2005.08.31 05:21:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sobeseki Pawi
Scaling responce is good imo. But in higher sec the responce should be overwhelming anyway.
well either keep concord as they are or have equivalent faction npc's to wtfpwn any piracy in safe space. Personally i would turn over 0.1-0.8 to faction police and let concord cover the rest as they are, give faction cops decent loot and decent scaling strength (they call in 'reinforcements' per se)
Quote:
Also, CONCORD fighting npc pirates much like players do would be awesome for immersion. Not to mention CONCORD spawns in low sec (0.4 and lower) that aren't uber, but let pirate players shoot at the law and not just other players.
would be nice, akin to freelancer but imagine the poor hamsters in keeping TQ going havinga tougher time coordinating smacktalk between ~10,000 npc's and their various fights.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Forger
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Posted - 2005.08.31 05:46:00 -
[25]
c arebear
o riented
n onkillable
c leanser
o f
r ating
d udes
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2005.08.31 06:06:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jex Jast
... EVE is also a game of fiction but it is also supposed to imitate life in most aspects, for example choosing professions and interacting with tons of real people.
yes ... but one of the visions CCP had for this game, was that it would cater both to PVP people, and to non-PvP people. Originally, players were supposed to be 100% safe in high-sec space, barring corp wars. You can still see vestiges of this intent, in eg. the 0.4 safety message, which tells you your *guarantee of safety* will no longer apply, because you're leaving the area where your safety is guaranteed.
In fact, it isn't guaranteed even in 0.5 and above, since Concord can't destroy the criminal before he even commits the crime of shooting at you; so CCP now take the view that you're in danger anywhere, but in 0.5 and above, the guy who shoots you, whether he kills you or not, is CERTAIN to die as a consequence.
The in-game method for achieving this is an invincible, inescapable police system; the only alternative would be reprogramming 0.5 and up, so that you just can't do damage to other players there. Nobody wants to see that.
__________________________________________
I tried strip mining, but I lost; and it's cold flying around in space naked. |
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