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Marrada Hearn
352 Industries
0
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Posted - 2013.03.26 00:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Clone costs are out of control and something needs to be done about them. I have friends who have been Capsuleer's for far longer than I have and it is getting to the point where some of them want to avoid combat. Not because they don't want to lose their ships, but because the cost of updating their clones after being "podded" is starting to out weigh the cost of the ships.
So it's time for us to take a stand. If the corporations making the clones won't lower their prices, then it's time for us, the Capsuleer's, to start our own Clone manufacturing service to compete with much lower prices. To acomplish this, I have set up a fluid router communications channel for other Capsuleer's to join and help co-ordinate our efforts. The channels name is "352 Cloning Inc" and can be accessed from your Neocom. |
Julianus Soter
Moira. Villore Accords
98
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Posted - 2013.03.26 00:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
An industrious and entrepreneurial idea. It would require, however, market deregulation by the SCC and other interstellar regulatory agencies before it could come to fruition. . .
Of course, fighting on behalf of the FDU, we enjoy a 50% clone discount. There are benefits to siding with Liberty, and all that. ;) |
Marrada Hearn
352 Industries
1
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Posted - 2013.03.26 01:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
You won't sway me to join the federation Mr Soter, if that is your intention, though I doubt it is.
And I am well aware of the Benefits of fighting for the FDU, or any of the other Empire Militia's. But why shouldn't those discounts be applied to all pilots, across all of New Eden. Clearly the actual cost of manufacturing clones is incredibly low, as the 50% discount wouldn't exist if the corporations providing the clones weren't already marking them up by huge margins. As I said, it's time to take a stand and refuse to continue to be exploited in this manner.
Its time for some market deregulation. The SCC has allowed the situation to persist for far to long and it has lead to stagnation among the clone manufacturing companies and quiet discontent among Capsuleer's. It's time to make some noise and make our voices be heard. |
Scherezad
Lai Dai Research Spacelane Security
738
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Posted - 2013.03.26 01:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Marrada Hearn wrote:And I am well aware of the Benefits of fighting for the FDU, or any of the other Empire Militia's. But why shouldn't those discounts be applied to all pilots, across all of New Eden. Clearly the actual cost of manufacturing clones is incredibly low, as the 50% discount wouldn't exist if the corporations providing the clones weren't already marking them up by huge margins. As I said, it's time to take a stand and refuse to continue to be exploited in this manner.
No, ma'am. It is not clear.
It is just as likely that the Gallente Federation subsidizes clone costs for their loyal Capsuleers. Likewise, my own costs are subsidized. This does not represent a markup, but instead an investment by my State in me. |
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
241
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Posted - 2013.03.26 01:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Indeed. I have specialties in Small sized spacecraft and it's attendant equipment and weaponry including advanced variants, but often find if I don't use the most expensive of equipment, my body costs more than my ship. |
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
241
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Posted - 2013.03.26 02:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Scherezad wrote:Marrada Hearn wrote:And I am well aware of the Benefits of fighting for the FDU, or any of the other Empire Militia's. But why shouldn't those discounts be applied to all pilots, across all of New Eden. Clearly the actual cost of manufacturing clones is incredibly low, as the 50% discount wouldn't exist if the corporations providing the clones weren't already marking them up by huge margins. As I said, it's time to take a stand and refuse to continue to be exploited in this manner. No, ma'am. It is not clear. It is just as likely that the Gallente Federation subsidizes clone costs for their loyal Capsuleers. Likewise, my own costs are subsidized. This does not represent a markup, but instead an investment by my State in me. The point is that given the high mortality rate of Capsuleers, for any of the militias to be able to afford offering discounts that deep, the market price of clones has to have been inflated by a large margin. |
Scherezad
Lai Dai Research Spacelane Security
738
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Posted - 2013.03.26 02:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:The point is that given the high mortality rate of Capsuleers, for any of the militias to be able to afford offering discounts that deep, the market price of clones has to have been inflated by a large margin.
The pocketbooks of the great Empires are much deeper than we give them credit. We are the fish, they the sharks. |
Arista Shahni
Real Simple Construction
6
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Posted - 2013.03.26 02:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
I'm not sure what I think of all of this, save that something which could be considered a mixed curse/blessing is being taken for granted, and now tht the cookie jar gets farther and farther out of reach, those who have decided to deny their mortality are starting to feel it.
On the surface of any occupied world, there is someone, I am sure, who would give everything for the chance to start over -- the option simply is not available to them. An ISK is an ISK is an ISK -- and we forget that a single ISK has a planetside value that is beyond what most people can earn in a lifetime.
The number of them required to outit a clone that has the mental capacity to remember all of your speific training is a matter of getting what you are willing to pay for and how much time you are willing to spend re-learning.
Capsuleers make the egotistical mistake of believing themselves immortal. Why not? You stop off at a cloning center, sign a few documents electronically, and that back-up you is ready to go. You have a "do-over" for you life sitting on standby. You can take risks. You can take insane, fatal risks that won't be fatal -- at least to those who believe that their immortal soul is not placed in jeapoardy (if not completely forefit) by being placed into a clone.
I have always flown with caution. This is because of my beliefs. If I am ever placed into a clone, I am, in essence, already dead, again -- my immortal soul is in danger, if not forefit. There is no need to explain that mark of Faith further here.
For those who do not share this belief, to be concerned about the ISK value of your immortality and wanting your cake to eat it also easier, I am a little confused. If you are not fighting for a faction, then you are simply fighting for whatever you feel like. You are then feeling what every baseliner everywhere has a chance to feel - one day, you won't be able to afford your medical bills, and you will die. One day, someone is going to shoot you and you will never wake up again. That scary wormy feeling in your stomach, that feeling that sends the hair on the back of your neck to rising.. that's called "mortality".
Death is normal. In fact, it is the proper way of things. Cloning is not. It is an abberation. A faction will subsidize the cost of your cloning as you are being asked to place yourself at risk for the sake of the Faction. They are paying for your risk in exchange for your loyalty to their cause.
No one is going to pay for your elevated risk for the sake of having a few fun flybys.
Unless your private Corporation decides to subsidize your cloning costs, you will pay for the consequences of your own actions. When was that ever an unfair point of life? Space is cold, cruel, and empty, and you will fight for every breath you take every moment you are in it.
If there is some need for a checking of the cloning facilities books, to see if they are siphoning more than they need, then sure. But don't expect to have something for nothing. You pay in loyalty, money, or blood. "I was dreaming once, and I dreampt of a world where I was nothing more than a biological fitting; a slave to the machine and crew, instead of the other way around. Don't you wonder at how easy it would have been for this scenario to happen, instead of how it actually unfolded?" |
DeadRow
Utopian Research I.E.L. Suddenly Spaceships.
89
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Posted - 2013.03.26 03:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
They should learn to get their pod out then. My clone costs around 50million, which us little compared to the costs of implants.
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Darth Skorpius
Legion of Darkwind Order of the Void
89
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Posted - 2013.03.26 03:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
DeadRow wrote:They should learn to get their pod out then. My clone costs around 50million, which us little compared to the costs of implants.
I don't think implant costs are the issue here. It's the cost of the clones themselves.
And I agree, clone costs are too high. Why should we continue to line the pockets of the Mega-Corps every time we make a mistake or something goes wrong. That ISK could be better spent on humanitarian efforts like the Caldari Prime Relief Effort. Follow my Adventures in New Eden! http://www.skorpiuschronicles.com/
Baa Means Baa! |
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Aelisha
Achura-Waschi Exchange
157
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Posted - 2013.03.26 09:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Clone costs have remained pretty much static over the years, a considerable feat (or indication of considerable mark up at launch) in this age of inflation. Look at tritanium, for example, a 200% rise in cost over 6 years approximately. Similarly, hulls formerly considered as start-up fleet vessels are much more expensive in pure isk cost than they once were, and yet clone grade costs remain static.
If any deregulation of clone cost is to be considered (outside of the 50% discounts available in FDU and SPROT held locations of development index five for ALL individuals holding a contract there) you will need to bear in mind that you will suddenly expose yourselves to the full force of free market mechanics. If cheap clones is what you want, you will need a much clearer picture of the infrastructural requirements and material costs, and long-term sustainability issues.
Clone cost rising with capacity for neuro-capture fidelity as one imprints more so-called skill books is reflective of a higher-quality product. Should you obtain a full report of the material costs and feasibility of running a reliable (99.99% survival rate is the last figure I saw cited as a Genolution standard) service in this area, I will most gladly reconsider and potentially invest. CEO of the Achura-Waschi Exchange: An International trade corporation that adheres to State values
Intaki born State Citizen and supporter of the Practicals Bloc. |
Mekhana
Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis
847
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Posted - 2013.03.26 10:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Your capsule is capable of warping. I suggest you use that ability for your well being. Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas!-á |
Unit XS365BT
The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative
101
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Posted - 2013.03.26 10:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
Perhaps the clone contracts are expensive as a deterrent to the loss of your vessel and capsule pilot.
We Return Unit XS365BT. Designated Communications Officer. Unit Commune. |
Halete
Alexylva Paradox
752
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Posted - 2013.03.26 10:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
I heard that pre-aligning and attempting to initiate warp repeatedly when your ship is going down is difficult.
Please confirm. Trading chains for shackles, I am free. |
Malcolm Khross
Wiyrkomi Tactical Response Directive
765
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Posted - 2013.03.26 11:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
I see this topic and my curiosity forces me to investigate.
I read about capsuleers, some of the wealthiest and most powerful beings in existence, complaining about the cost of being resurrected. I see comparisons of the cost of the loss of a ship compared to the cost of a brand new body and continued existence.
No mention of those who pay the ultimate price in these instances, no mention of those who could not awake again anew even were they to have the money. Then I remember what becomes of we who consider ourselves immortal when we fail to do all we can to remember those who are not.
Your capsule is extremely agile and will align to warp almost immediately after ship destruction. Rather than contesting the cost of clones, learn to anticipate the battle at hand and prepare yourself for escape immediately. You will rarely lose your capsule this way. ~Malcolm Khross
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Ava Starfire
Gradient Electus Matari
776
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Posted - 2013.03.26 11:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
Xindi Kraid wrote:Indeed. I have specialties in Small sized spacecraft and it's attendant equipment and weaponry including advanced variants, but often find if I don't use the most expensive of equipment, my body costs more than my ship.
As a frigate pilot here, who spends a good portion of her time in nullsec... what? Do some people really get podded so often that clone costs are a problem?
I cannot remember the last time I was podded... it has been well over a year, I think? "There is no strength in numbers; have no such misconception."
-Jayka Vofur, "Warfare in the North" |
Erik Kaassan
Black Sun Brethren
20
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Posted - 2013.03.26 17:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Such is the high price of immortality huh? After all, we are never exactly write-offs for the companies because they know they can still collect on us whether it is a year or a hundred years in the future allowing them to charge pretty much whatever they want. An potential asset with an infinite shelf life. I bet companies before capsuleers would do anything for an advantage like that. |
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
245
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Posted - 2013.03.26 17:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
I can't say I have seen a CRU from the inside recently, but that does not lessen my point. |
Derek Quaid
Discreet Bounties
149
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Posted - 2013.03.26 20:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
It is a wonder that clone costs remain stable instead of increasing dramatically over time. Given the steadily increasing demand (you people just can't keep yourselves alive) and the need for more of these valuable commodities to be produced, the price should be going up. Count your blessings. CEO, Discreet Bounties In-game Channel: Discreet Bounties |
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