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Dryxonedes Sae	Posted - 2005.08.31 18:10:00 - [1] I've hit a point, where i choose between pushing cal. bs to lvl 5, or getting myself into an eagle... I'm pretty much sold on the eagle, so i pulled out the calculator to have a quick look at the achievable dps out of it. I did the calculations assuming on decent skills: Rapid fire 4 Surgical Strike 4 Medium Blaster 5 Medium Rail spec 4 Cruiser 5 HAC 4 Motion Prediction 4 Sharpshooter 4 (i.e. required skills to lvl 5, all others at 4 ) Also base setup was only 1 T2 MS with T2 250's. From this my numbers came out as follows 4.796 RoF 6.0984x dmg mod 82.32k opt. 16.8k f/o Result dps with anti-matter being approx 122. Is there someone out there piloting one of these that could tell me if my numbers are right, cause comparitvely to other HACs the dps seems too low to even bother with (it won't take down a moderate npc bs, let alone a player). Also if someone has the stacking penalty stuff handy could you throw on some numbers for running more mag stabs. Thanks.
piercer	Posted - 2005.08.31 18:22:00 - [2] The DPS on an eagle sucks tbh. It can snipe intys and frigates from what i have heard and anything larger than that will tank the dmg. I'd say go for either a different HAC race or just go for caldari BS lvl5. I dont fly an eagle myself so you may wanna hear from an eagle pilot before making your final decision, but from all the eagle post's i've seen then thats what i've found out.
Dryxonedes Sae	Posted - 2005.08.31 18:29:00 - [3] Raven 1, Eagle Nil.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.08.31 19:00:00 - [4] Raven.. 122 is pretty low though, are you sure it's that bad? A max skill Cerberus pilot is going to do about 320-333 DPS with Scourge Heavys, if my math is right. ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.08.31 19:06:00 - [5] hmm i retract you must not be counting dmg mods =P ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
EternalDark	Posted - 2005.08.31 19:11:00 - [6] TBH with good skills the ceberus does the eagles's job better 9/10 times. Then you can forget about training those (CALDARI) worthless gunnery skills and focus on missiles skills which will make your raven better also. Two birds, one stone.
Dryxonedes Sae	Posted - 2005.08.31 19:12:00 - [7] Edited by: Dryxonedes Sae on 31/08/2005 19:15:31 Numbers were counted using just one T2 mag stab. I don't know the stuff for the stacking penalty, so i do base calculations on just one. I did another quick run over if i was to use medium neutrons instead of rails. Comes out at 188dps. Looks like Raven 2, Eagle 0, so far. Make that 3, Eternal posted at the same time as me... Just thought, Caldari BS 5 > Dreadnought in the future...
MECHcore	Posted - 2005.08.31 22:21:00 - [8] Edited by: MECHcore on 31/08/2005 22:22:54 T2 med neutrons and u have enough DPS with ur eagle and dont forget 2x T2 heavy launchers
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.08.31 22:35:00 - [9] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 31/08/2005 22:37:50 Originally by: MECHcore Edited by: MECHcore on 31/08/2005 22:22:54 T2 med neutrons and u have enough DPS with ur eagle and dont forget 2x T2 heavy launchers Wrong tool for the wrong job, how could the fact that you use blasters on a rail ship be a reason to use the eagle ? Meh. Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- I have the scientific evidence that some people can write but cannot read.
TIvian	Posted - 2005.09.01 00:23:00 - [10] Edited by: TIvian on 01/09/2005 00:23:56 First, I would like to say hello to Jim Raynor....long time mang...glad to see your still playin...that is if your the original Jim. Ok now to topic. I have not PvP'd in like 5 months I think. So I can only vouch for NPCing or agent whoring. I have CB level 5. I have all the new missile skills to level 4. I have torps and cruise to level 5. I also can fly the Eagle or Cerberus. And I have to say I love all 3 ships. The Eagle is impressive even with my week gunnery skills. I can cut through frigs and interceptors like a hot knife through butter. Cruisers drop like a cheap w***e on a slow monday night. I can tank BS damage...up to 3 NPC factional BS's that is. The Cerberus does the same. neither the Eagle nor the Cerberus can do enough damage alone to take an NPC BS though. Now....after the missile nerf/balance/improvment...I do MORE damage with the Raven then I did before. avg 708.2 against cruisers and Battleships. Frigs I can take down before they get to me from extreme range....avg 120 to 190 damage, a little bit less with torps. BUT I still take them down none the less. ever so often I get those crapy 20 to 90 damage hits. but if the frigs get in close they have to go against my drones. In my opinion training for the max skills with the raven is not a waist. Raven 4tWin. Cerberus for 2nd place. I love the Eagles sheer killing power with its bonus's but its a waist as a caldari to train gunnery skills IMO>...the only reason I have them to begin with is because I started my character 4 days after release. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) Teh Uber Asheron's Call Bunny Booty WTFPWNZ you!!

Darkside101	Posted - 2005.09.01 00:37:00 - [11] Edited by: Darkside101 on 01/09/2005 01:15:18 imho Raven with max skills = cool sexy agresive scary Caldari hac's = SUX But they must surly do something with the them hac's eventualy and you have to get HAC skill up to atleast 4 so you can get in a t2 bs when there out :) cmon baby, come to daddy yarr DS101
Sorja	Posted - 2005.09.01 04:33:00 - [12] Originally by: TIvian The Cerberus does the same. neither the Eagle nor the Cerberus can do enough damage alone to take an NPC BS though. I don't use my Raven anymore for ratting (missions is something else), but my Eagle. It's soooo much faster to kill frigs and cruisers with the Eagle, it's unbelievable. BS go down slower, but, hey! they go down Quote: I do MORE damage with the Raven then I did before. avg 708.2 against cruisers and Battleships. Something is wrong here. If I shoot at a cruiser that is not MWDing, I score around 150 (got the new skills too, none at 5 though). I wonder where those reports of 500+ against cruisers are coming from. I only fight guristas, maybe you are talking about some other faction cruisers that use MWD? I trained cruises hoping I'd get better results than torps, and apart from getting them blown up by defenders, I didn't notice anything better about them than torps. Frigates => drones, so no problem there, but same as what you said about cruisers, I do no damage to frigates neither with torps nor cruises. Kill mails
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.01 04:42:00 - [13] Edited by: Jim Raynor on 01/09/2005 04:42:38 I can take down NPC Bships with my Cerberus, it takes some training and four decent damage mods but they can take down upsurpers at least. and yes this is the original jim raynor tivian. ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Wrayeth	Posted - 2005.09.01 05:40:00 - [14] Originally by: Sorja Originally by: TIvian I do MORE damage with the Raven then I did before. avg 708.2 against cruisers and Battleships. Something is wrong here. If I shoot at a cruiser that is not MWDing, I score around 150 (got the new skills too, none at 5 though). I wonder where those reports of 500+ against cruisers are coming from. I only fight guristas, maybe you are talking about some other faction cruisers that use MWD? The massive torp hits on cruisers are vs. targets with active MWD. My base damage with torps with torps 5 and four ballistics is 720 or so, and I get hits in that amount when cruisers activate their MWD. Generally speaking, if you warp in at 80km or and fire two volleys at a cruiser from that range, one of the two volleys will hit the cruiser while its MWD is active - against some cruisers, this can result in one-volley-one-kill results. -Wrayeth
TIvian	Posted - 2005.09.01 06:26:00 - [15] Originally by: Jim Raynor Edited by: Jim Raynor on 01/09/2005 04:42:38 I can take down NPC Bships with my Cerberus, it takes some training and four decent damage mods but they can take down upsurpers at least. and yes this is the original jim raynor tivian. AWSOME! not many of us old school left. I never tried to fit more then one BCU on my Cerberus. I will try that. Sorja Your not the only one to say something is wrong. But time and time again I have hardly any issues flying my Raven against any npc faction frig or cruiser or BS. I am truly hitting harder now then prior to Cold war. but then again its only 100 more damage points! (\_/) (O.o) (> <) Teh Uber Asheron's Call Bunny Booty WTFPWNZ you!!
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.01 06:30:00 - [16] Originally by: TIvian Originally by: Jim Raynor Edited by: Jim Raynor on 01/09/2005 04:42:38 I can take down NPC Bships with my Cerberus, it takes some training and four decent damage mods but they can take down upsurpers at least. and yes this is the original jim raynor tivian. AWSOME! not many of us old school left. I never tried to fit more then one BCU on my Cerberus. I will try that. Sorja Your not the only one to say something is wrong. But time and time again I have hardly any issues flying my Raven against any npc faction frig or cruiser or BS. I am truly hitting harder now then prior to Cold war. but then again its only 100 more damage points! i use four damage mods, i do close to 300DPS -- with kinetics. ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Vicious Vic	Posted - 2005.09.01 07:35:00 - [17] With four damage mods on a Raven how do you maintain a tank for any lenght of time. Did you use four damage mods pre (Cold War)
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.01 07:47:00 - [18] Originally by: Vicious Vic With four damage mods on a Raven how do you maintain a tank for any lenght of time. Did you use four damage mods pre (Cold War) i use four on a cerb, on a raven id use 5.. why tank, use damps or tracking disruptors.. tanking is for gimps ------ ROBBLE ROBBLE
Alasse Cuthalion	Posted - 2005.09.01 10:34:00 - [19] Your dmod looks kinda low, mine's 8.5x with t2 250mm rails.
Wrayeth	Posted - 2005.09.01 12:51:00 - [20] Edited by: Wrayeth on 01/09/2005 12:54:34 Originally by: Vicious Vic With four damage mods on a Raven how do you maintain a tank for any lenght of time. Did you use four damage mods pre (Cold War) Here's the catch - by the time I run out of cap from shield boosting, my opponent is generally dead. The tank's intended to run long enough to allow my massive damage output to overcome any tank my opponent might use. With 4320 damage per volley and a rate of fire of 9.17 seconds (tech 2 siege), I've actually had favorable results vs. a gankageddon with my raven. Yep, that's right - I couldn't match the gankageddon's damage output (though I came surprisingly close) but I could tank while dishing it out. For PvE, this setup outputs so much damage that, if I warp in on a serpentis battleship spawn (even a dual battleship spawn) at 80km, the battleship rats usually never even get a shot off on me before they die. That said, I do nix the sensor booster for a cap recharger when fighting NPCs. EDIT: BTW, I'd be using 5 damage mods, but I can't fit 6 tech II siege, a medslot tank with hardeners and an XL booster II, and a rack of damage mods without using a coprocessor in the lows (maxed electronics and weapons upgrades). The reason I don't just use named launchers for this purpose is that the Torp Spec skill won't apply to 'em after next Tuesday's patch - it'll only apply to tech 2 siege. -Wrayeth

MECHcore	Posted - 2005.09.01 13:43:00 - [21] Originally by: TIvian The Cerberus does the same. neither the Eagle nor the Cerberus can do enough damage alone to take an NPC BS though. i took a 9M Thon Eney rat down with my blastereagle ( maxed skills ), if you believe it or not. hurry go check escrow and buy some of my Thon loot
Sorja	Posted - 2005.09.01 16:07:00 - [22] Originally by: TIvian Sorja Your not the only one to say something is wrong. But time and time again I have hardly any issues flying my Raven against any npc faction frig or cruiser or BS. What Gurista Cruisers use an MWD? I'll check their speed next time I run a mission, but I can't remember them going fast, maybe the Caracal/Blackbird types, not sure. It usually needs 2 torp volleys to kill them, so I only use drones and 250mm TII on them to spare on ammo. I have serpentis close to my region, maybe I'd be more lucky with those, dunno. Kill mails
Spore Attic	Posted - 2005.09.01 17:14:00 - [23] The Eagle is a respectable ship if used as intended. Personally I like to use the tanking ability of the ship to fight close enough to use anti-matter charges. It seems the days of an all out ganking machine are gone, especially if you fly Caldari. When (if) the T2 ammo comes out the increased damage should overshadow any glaring weaknesses the Eagle has. Fly the ship the way it was intended, not the way you want to fly it.
Dryxonedes Sae	Posted - 2005.09.01 17:29:00 - [24] Thanks for the replies and assistance folks, i think my mind is bent toward revving up the raven now. Still though, if someone wants/can grind some numbers on using 2/3/4 mag stab 2's, that would give me the only piece of info i lack. Ta again.
Naughty Boy	Posted - 2005.09.01 17:54:00 - [25] Edited by: Naughty Boy on 01/09/2005 17:57:17 Originally by: Dryxonedes Sae Thanks for the replies and assistance folks, i think my mind is bent toward revving up the raven now. Still though, if someone wants/can grind some numbers on using 2/3/4 mag stab 2's, that would give me the only piece of info i lack. Ta again. That is extremely easy. If your dps without damage mod is x0, with 1 damage mod t2 it is x1 = x0 * (1+22,9%), with 2 damage mods t2 it is x2 = x1 * (1+15,1%), with 3 damage mods t2 it is x3 = x2 * (1+13,1%), and with 4 damage mods t2 it is x4 = x3 * (1+12,0%). Sincerly Yours, The Naughty Boy. --- I have the scientific evidence that some people can write but cannot read.
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2005.09.01 18:14:00 - [26] Edited by: DrunkenOne on 01/09/2005 18:17:04 Originally by: Dryxonedes Sae I've hit a point, where i choose between pushing cal. bs to lvl 5, or getting myself into an eagle... I'm pretty much sold on the eagle, so i pulled out the calculator to have a quick look at the achievable dps out of it. I did the calculations assuming on decent skills: Rapid fire 4 Surgical Strike 4 Medium Blaster 5 Medium Rail spec 4 Cruiser 5 HAC 4 Motion Prediction 4 Sharpshooter 4 (i.e. required skills to lvl 5, all others at 4 ) Also base setup was only 1 T2 MS with T2 250's. From this my numbers came out as follows 4.796 RoF 6.0984x dmg mod 82.32k opt. 16.8k f/o 250 II Base: 3.3x damage mod 6.375 RoF w/ the skills you put: 3.3x 1.12 (ss 4) 1.25(med turret 5) 1.08(spec 4)1.2(HAC 4)= 5.9872x 6.375 RoF .8 (RF 4).9 (gunnery 5) = 4.59 RoF w/ 1 magstab II 5.9872x-->6.58592 4.59oF-->4.11 6.5859224 (antimatter M)4 (guns) =632.24 632.24 / 4.11 (RoF) = 154 Base DPS = 154 + 2 launchers (dunno how to calc those?)
Wrayeth	Posted - 2005.09.01 18:43:00 - [27] Originally by: Sorja What Gurista Cruisers use an MWD? I'll check their speed next time I run a mission, but I can't remember them going fast, maybe the Caracal/Blackbird types, not sure. It usually needs 2 torp volleys to kill them, so I only use drones and 250mm TII on them to spare on ammo. I have serpentis close to my region, maybe I'd be more lucky with those, dunno. I'm pretty sure all rats use MWD at one point or another. The key is to make sure you're out of their range so they have to close with you - hence, warp in at 80km or 100km to make sure they'll activate their MWD. Once a rat enters its optimal range it generally doesn't reactivate MWD unless your ship moves out of said range and it needs to reposition. During my time in Deklein with Everlasting Vendetta, I can recall occasions of just about every rat type going faster than 1000m/s, including the battleships. -Wrayeth


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