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Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.08.31 21:42:00 - [1] Edited by: Jim Steele on 31/08/2005 22:14:19 Everything you wanted to know about the Apocalypse, but where to afraid to ask. Having flown an Apocalypse (Apoc) a great deal recently I decided to write a post dedicated to it. About the ship The Apoc. has the most number of turret mounts available in the game, 8; this means itÆs primarily a gunship, so high gunnery skills are a must. It also has a couple of launcher ports which allow more options, (but fitting launchers means some cross training to be able to use them effectively). Other options are to fit cap suckers/ neutralisers as the need arises. The Apoc also has more power grid than any other BS, but what it has in grid it lacks in CPU. Its drone bay, whilst smaller than an Armageddon is still useful and it should be utilized the extra damage is handy in PvP and can be a lifesaver against NPCÆs, particularly frigates; however the correct drones must be used depending on the situation. It has 8 High; 4 Medium and 7 low slots 3975 Shield Hit-points (maximum 4969 with skills) 4800 Armour Hit-points (maximum 6000 with skills) As a result of these factors the ship is geared more towards turrets and armour tanking then missile launchers and shield tanking (though it is still possible to use launchers as part of your set-up). The 8 turret hard-points make the Apoc an ideal platform as a mining ship, particulary in low sec space. Whereas a barge will mine more units, an Apoc. can tank most 0.0 spawns with ease. The weapons of choice are Lasers and they come in two flavours Beam: Which are mid - long range, poor tracking but good damage. Pulse: Which are short - mid range, good tracking and high damage.
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.08.31 21:42:00 - [2] Edited by: Jim Steele on 31/08/2005 21:48:48 Other useful setups are as follows... 0.0 Mining Setup This isnÆt the best tank but if you chose a belt with an easy spawn using an alt, you should be able to tank it ok, another option is to drop a CPUII and some miners and fit more tank. 8 x miner II (or DCM II + crystals) 3 cap charger II, 1 roid scanner 2x hardeners, 1 Large Accom, 1 Med II, 3x CPU II (and drones) 1400mm A bit off the wall, but some use it I personally think Tachs work better. 8 1400Æs 2 Tracking Computer II's, 2 Sensor Booster II's Gyro II's + (RCU IIÆs to fit) (and drones)
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.08.31 21:42:00 - [3] Edited by: Jim Steele on 31/08/2005 21:49:18 ThatÆs it, if you have any comments feel free to post below. Jim Real men, play Rugby
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.08.31 21:42:00 - [4] Edited by: Jim Steele on 31/08/2005 21:56:38 The type of crystal fitted is also a major factor of the turret damage and range the available crystals are now described. Multi-frequency (MF) These do: 28 EM and 20 Thermal damage, as standard (times the damage modifier, gun and skill dependant) and have -50% range meaning optimal ranges of (Optimal Range is based on Sharp Shooter 5) Mega Pulse I Optimal Range = 10 km Mega Pulse II Optimal Range = 15 km Mega Beam I Optimal Range = 25 km Mega Beam II Optimal Range = 30 km Tachyon Optimal Range = 27.5 km Tachyon II Optimal Range = 33 km Gamma 28 EM, 16 Thermal, -37.5% range Mega Pulse I Optimal Range = 12.5 km Mega Pulse II Optimal Range = 18.75 km Mega Beam I Optimal Range = 31.25 km Mega Beam II Optimal Range = 37.5 km Tachyon Optimal Range = 34.375 km Tachyon II Optimal Range = 41.25 km X-Ray 24 EM 16 Thermal, -25% range Mega Pulse I Optimal Range = 15 km Mega Pulse II Optimal Range = 22.5 km Mega Beam I Optimal Range = 37.5 km Mega Beam II Optimal Range = 45 km Tachyon Optimal Range = 41.25 km Tachyon II Optimal Range = 49.5 km Ultra-Violet (UV) 24EM and 12 Thermal, -12.5% range Mega Pulse I Optimal Range = 17.5 km Mega Pulse II Optimal Range = 26.25 km Mega Beam I Optimal Range = 43.75 km Mega Beam II Optimal Range = 52.5 km Tachyon Optimal Range = 48.235 km Tachyon II Optimal Range = 57.75km Standard 20 EM and 12 Thermal, 0% range Mega Pulse I Optimal Range = 20 km Mega Pulse II Optimal Range = 30 km Mega Beam I Optimal Range = 50 km Mega Beam II Optimal Range = 60 km Tachyon Optimal Range = 55 km Tachyon II Optimal Range = 66 km Infra Red 20 EM and 8 Thermal, 20% range Mega Pulse I Optimal Range = 24 km Mega Pulse II Optimal Range = 36 km Mega Beam I Optimal Range = 60 km Mega Beam II Optimal Range = 72 km Tachyon Optimal Range = 68.75 km Tachyon II Optimal Range = 79.2 km Radio 20EM, 60% range Mega Pulse I Optimal Range = 32 km Mega Pulse II Optimal Range = 48 km Mega Beam I Optimal Range = 80 km Mega Beam II Optimal Range = 96 km Tachyon Optimal Range = 88 km Tachyon II Optimal Range = 105.6 km As you can see from the ranges, tech two, or the best named, urinate all over tech one so for a budding Apoc pilot T2 lasers are a must
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.08.31 21:42:00 - [5] Edited by: Jim Steele on 31/08/2005 21:46:51 Why are lasers good? Well they use no ammo besides crystals which (currently) donÆt deteriorate. This means you can fit a bay full of different crystals and be sorted whatever the engagement range. Why do they suck? The main disadvantage to using lasers is obviously the cap usage which is balanced by the Apoc. skill bonuses: -10% large laser turret cap need and +5% extra total capacitor per level. This means the ship has ooodles of cap (7500 with maxed out skills) and as such I recommend at least Lvl 4 BS. I also would recommend training all the cap skills to lvl5 in order to make the most out of it and controlled bursts so that the laser turrets use even less cap (indeed all gunnery skills at 5 really do make a difference). Other disadvantages are the damage types that lasers do, Thermal and EM, the two damage types are the easiest to tank, itÆs stuck with them unless it fits different turrets and there is no changing of ammo like projectiles ore missiles. In theory any turret can be mounted on the beast some have experimented with 1400Æs, others Blasters since the Ship doesnÆt have a damage bonus for its primary weapon this is a valid option, but the hybrid and projectile bonuses on Galante and Minmater ships make up for the extra turret slots and lowslots that the Apoc has. (It should be noted that because of the lack of CPU on the Apoc, hybrids are a tight squeeze). Now there is no right or wrong setup, it all depends on your situation, these are some of the most used, tried and tested setups.
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.08.31 21:42:00 - [6] Edited by: Jim Steele on 31/08/2005 21:48:13 NPC Pulse Laser Setup, a variation of a theme This is usually my preferred setup, sometimes I fit a web and loose a cap charger, sometimes I fit an extra hardener and loose a CPR. It really depends who IÆm fighting and webs are damn useful. 6 mega pulse lasers II, 2 heavy pulse II /2 Cruise Launchers 1 AB, 3 cap recharger IIÆs 2 large accomÆ reps (or T2), 2 hardeners, 3 CPR +Heavy drones (or a bunch of Mediums works well) As in all megapulse setups you do the most damage at short range, however depending on the type of crystals you can get up to 50km, although at much reduced damage. As such in order to kill battleships you need to get within <20km because the damage of the longer range crystals is rather poor in comparison. The AB is absolutely necessary since the pulse laser ÆnerfÆ particulary against NPC ships that like to move away once they are almost ganked. The basic tactic is to warp in (at ~60k in missions) shoot the frigs and cruisers first then sort out the BSÆes. Cruisers (and some frigates) can be killed ok with radio or x-ray crystals, but usually I like to carry a webifier so they can be killed with MF at 15km. PvP Ok, the Apoc has oodles of grid, so use it and fit Tachyons. (I wouldnÆt bother with a MP II setup, since a gank-a-geddon is more efficient in this department). 7 Tachyons II's, Assault Launcher/Smartbomb (whatever fits basically) 2 Tracking Computer II's, 2 Sensor Booster II's Heat Sink II's + (RCU IIÆs to fit) (+drones) You could possibly drop a HSII for another RCUII and try and get another Tachyon on her but it really depends on skills (Advance Weapons Upgrades 4 teh win!)
Messelina	Posted - 2005.09.01 01:32:00 - [7] good job
Zero35	Posted - 2005.09.01 02:53:00 - [8] Sticky this now...Great job. Courage is the not the absence of fear, it is the perseverance in the precence of it.
Megadon	Posted - 2005.09.01 05:34:00 - [9] Nice post thanks!
Rodj Blake	Posted - 2005.09.01 09:12:00 - [10] A well thought out post, although I would add that megabeams (or even dual heavy beams in some circumstances) are a useful alternative to tachyons, and also that the Apoc makes a very good tank in small-scale PvP. Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori
Jiin	Posted - 2005.09.01 09:15:00 - [11] Very nice, thank you. :) --- Jiin Proud member of the 7th Space Cavalry
Asheara March	Posted - 2005.09.01 09:45:00 - [12] You say the major disadvantage to lasers is the cap use, and this is a common defence against the whole "lasers are overpowered O_o!" speech. The truth is though that Gallente despite using incredible amounts of ammo use more cap than lasers. To break down the turrets I give you my complete uber guide to turrets! Lasers: Most versatile with quick chrystal switching to cover most range. Highest Damage (only blasters can outdamage pulse lasers, but since it takes blasters time to get into range pulses still come out on top). Beam lasers out damage any other long range gun including artillery and railguns. Second most cap use (and since amarr ships get wicked capacitor this really means nothing) Hybrid: Least versatile, low falloffs and full reload time make getting to good range with these guns rather tricky. Second in Damage Highest cap use in game, despite using ammo at a furious rate! Projectile: Good versatility with good falloff ranges (being able to switch optimal for 100% hit rate is still better than having a big falloff range with only fractions of your shots hitting. Lowest DPS (autocannons lose to pulse lasers despite being mini range, artillery are a bit different though as despite having lowest damage per second they do their damage all at once which makes up for it) Almost non-existant cap use but the rate they chew threw ammo hurts. So to be a laser user currently is rather nice. With the highest dps, most versatile range, no ammo use, and not even that bad of capacitor drain laser users should only be complaining about the game not being challenging enough. ____________________________________________ Veni Vidi Varpi I came, I saw, I warped the hell out
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.09.01 10:14:00 - [13] Quote: Most versatile with quick chrystal switching to cover most range. that quick changing is needed because they have short fall-off distances thus you do pants dammage outside this... Quote: Highest Damage (only blasters can outdamage pulse lasers, but since it takes blasters time to get into range pulses still come out on top). Thermal and EM is easyest to tank, and by your own admission blasters do more damage... Quote: Beam lasers out damage any other long range gun including artillery and railguns. At long range you can only use radio crystals which from my chart only do EM damage.. This is easily tanked... Quote: Second most cap use (and since amarr ships get wicked capacitor this really means nothing) The neutron blaster 2 uses 20 cap, the megapulse 2 laser 40 cap. Ok they break even at Amarr BS5 but really i see it hard to say that blasters use more unless im missing something.. Real men, play Rugby
Kinsy	Posted - 2005.09.01 10:26:00 - [14] Edited by: Kinsy on 01/09/2005 10:26:58 Errr off the top of my head:- 425mm Railgun w/Antimatter 35km Optimal range with 24km falloff on my other account, which has crap gunnery skills (Trajectory Analysis 1/2). Tachyon Modulated Beam w/MF 33km Optimal with 24km falloff (with Trajectory Analysis IV). Sorry what were you saying about falloff?
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.09.01 11:04:00 - [15] Edited by: Jim Steele on 01/09/2005 11:03:58 Originally by: Kinsy Sorry what were you saying about falloff? Tacking the base values only for a proper comparison we have, 1400mm Howitzer II Range 48 km Falloff 35km Tracking 0.009 rad/s 425mm Rail II Range 57.6 km Falloff 24km Tracking 0.009625 Tachyon Beam Laser II Range 52.8 km Falloff 20km Tracking 0.0139205 rad/s Mega Beam II Optimal Range 48km Falloff 16km Tracking 0.0153125 rad/s There we have it, lasers have the worst fall-off but best tracking, thus need to change ammo types more to fit the range... Real men, play Rugby
Asheara March	Posted - 2005.09.01 11:08:00 - [16] "The neutron blaster 2 uses 20 cap, the megapulse 2 laser 40 cap. Ok they break even at Amarr BS5 but really i see it hard to say that blasters use more unless im missing something.." amarr ship bonus at 5 cuts it in half, so both guns would be equal. The rest is up to rate of fire, and the reduction in cap use from chrystal. Even if they are close though, considering one used ammo and the other doesn't you must see where I am coming from. And I never said hybrid have the lowest falloffs, so compare to the mega pulse all you like it matters not! Thing is the hybrids cant just instantly switch optimal so they are at a severe dissadvantage. ____________________________________________ Veni Vidi Varpi I came, I saw, I warped the hell out http://www.geocities.com/vawzi/banner.JPG
Oberon Oblique	Posted - 2005.09.01 13:29:00 - [17] Excellent Post. I would only add my fav Apoc setup: 8x Mega modulated Beams 1x Sensorbooster II 3x Tracking Comp II 7x Faction HS -The mind is strong and the flesh is weak, but oh the flesh...
Crusari	Posted - 2005.09.01 14:53:00 - [18] Another good setup for NPC'ing is 7 Dual Heavy Beam t2 1 Large Smartbomb 1 Ab, 3 Cap Recharger (or 4 cap rechargers) 2 Large Reppers, 3 Hardeners 2 cap relays + drones You'll get better ranges (10-80km) with the dual heavy beams and that's easier npc'ing, especially for 0.0 belthunting
Arleonenis	Posted - 2005.09.01 17:24:00 - [19] megabeams are good for npc becouse you could still tank ship well and some faction npcs have mainly long range bss, unfortunetly tachs are good only for pure sniper setup or partial tank becouse of fitting (both use speed to keep distance from npcs while shooting them to death) just my few cents
MinerWilly	Posted - 2005.09.01 21:29:00 - [20] Well I've always used Mega Pulse Laser I's but looking at the specs for Heavy Beam Laser I's I'm not sure what the advantage is. Both have same damage modifier, optimal and falloff but the beams have better tracking (0.33 vs 0.27 rad/sec), smaller cap usage (40 vs 21.67) and easier fitting requirements. Even with the Apocs bonus to cap usage for large energy turrets I cannot see why they would be better than the beams. Am I missing something obvious?
henryshead	Posted - 2005.09.01 21:30:00 - [21] .... and why does my alt always want to post
Jim Steele	Posted - 2005.09.01 21:39:00 - [22] Originally by: MinerWilly Am I missing something obvious? Medium Laser Crystals do half the damage of large ones. Real men, play Rugby
henryshead	Posted - 2005.09.01 21:45:00 - [23] AH! I new I was missing somthing cheers Jim
FireFoxx80	Posted - 2005.09.01 21:55:00 - [24] Originally by: Asheara March Hybrid: Least versatile, low falloffs and full reload time make getting to good range with these guns rather tricky. Second in Damage Highest cap use in game, despite using ammo at a furious rate! Caldari seems to be super nerfed then. Possibly one of the 23 # ex: P-TMC \| USAC
Wolverine PL	Posted - 2005.09.03 17:07:00 - [25] Originally by: FireFoxx80 Originally by: Asheara March Hybrid: Least versatile, low falloffs and full reload time make getting to good range with these guns rather tricky. Second in Damage Highest cap use in game, despite using ammo at a furious rate! Caldari seems to be super nerfed then. Caldari super nerfed? Rather Gallente. they use hybrids only, caldari use missiles too. Gallente not only have cap problem, they have crapy ships too.
Cary Grant	Posted - 2005.09.03 18:40:00 - [26] Killer post! Sticky 4TW
Ice Foxy	Posted - 2005.09.04 22:34:00 - [27] Great post, thanks Jim.
Cadadon	Posted - 2005.09.06 19:28:00 - [28] Edited by: Cadadon on 06/09/2005 19:28:24 Excellent post...sticky this...or at least add it to the ship setups sticky!
Cadadon	Posted - 2005.09.08 11:04:00 - [29] Edited by: Cadadon on 08/09/2005 11:04:22 After spending a few days hunting rats in 0.0, and trying a various mix of large guns. I found that mostly you fight cruisers at approx 15km or less. Even with a tracking computer and a tracking enhancer fitted, my large guns (I was using Mega Beam) weren't standing a chance of hitting, but my 2 small guns (can't fit 8 large guns) were hitting fine. So, I came up with this setup: High: 8x Medium Beam II Medium: 1x Tracking Computer I (named or T2 would be better) 1x Cap Recharger II 1x Named Cap Recharger (would be better as T2) 1x Cap Recharger I (would be better as T2) Low: Large Armor Repairer II 2x Active Hardener 1x Dark Blood Plate (would be better as 3x active) 2x Heat Sink II Total Cap: 6348 Cap Recharge Time: 317.58s Gun Optimal (with Infrared S): 18km Gun ROF: 2.63s Dmg Mod: 5.988 These guns will hit virtually anything, apart from the super fast frigates, but thats what drones are for. They offer easily enough firepower to take the BSs down that I've seen. I orginally fitted an AB, because I thought I'd need to get close, but I now just wait for the cruisers to come to me. Might seem like a bit of a waste of the apoc's PG, as I'm only using 10% but, it does the job i need it to. Cad
Ice Foxy	Posted - 2005.09.08 16:12:00 - [30] Nooooooooooooooo............... Dude you arn't supposed to hit cruisers with megabeams at <15k, try dual heavys and increase your engagement range, or 15k is perfect for Megapulse II (you might need to web cruisers but large turrets work fine imho). Fitting frigate guns to a BS is a waste

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