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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Mangus Thermopyle
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Posted - 2005.09.04 22:33:00 -
[121]
LOL, as if a AF could ever do half of what a HAC could do. EVE is ONLY about big ships nowdays, tech 2 frigates are more or less redundant. The only reason tech 2 frigates are used is because people think its more fun to use them for things like level 3 mission and 3/10-4/10 complexes.
If CCP is going to keep tech 2 frigate in the game, they should make them more useful, not less.
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Xendie
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Posted - 2005.09.05 22:00:00 -
[122]
looks like CCP likes to kick on the already down caldari pilots.
on my turret pilot i can with L5 gun skill trained hit with medium guns for up to 700dmg if lucky on a smaller ship on my caldari pilot i can hit for about crap on same size ship even if its standing still and im not talking about raven dmg versus battleships.
Battleships should kill Battleships and cruisers. Cruisers should kill Cruisers and Frigates Frigates should kill frigates and when done properly battleships.
the sig radius changes to ships will just screw up heavy missiles even more.
/me goes and parks my missile ships and grabs a huler and starts AFK mining in yulai.
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VossKarr
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Posted - 2005.09.05 22:11:00 -
[123]
Originally by: KilROCK Edited by: KilROCK on 05/09/2005 21:59:11 Yehaw for the Rupture. But where's my powergrid increase on the cynabal? It should be increased aswell since it's a rupture kinda-like stat ship..
Seems they are trying to bring the t1 frigates into the game for tackling a bit more... I mean seriously... now the executioner is faster than the slasher? That's kinda bull****..
I hope there's a grid increase for the Muninn as well...
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2005.09.05 22:19:00 -
[124]
Originally by: VossKarr
Originally by: KilROCK Edited by: KilROCK on 05/09/2005 21:59:11 Yehaw for the Rupture. But where's my powergrid increase on the cynabal? It should be increased aswell since it's a rupture kinda-like stat ship..
Seems they are trying to bring the t1 frigates into the game for tackling a bit more... I mean seriously... now the executioner is faster than the slasher? That's kinda bull****..
I hope there's a grid increase for the Muninn as well...
Yea well , it's not like i have problem fitting my setup (MAJOR COUGHING) but the problem right now is that i can't even fly my cynabal so that first came to my mind when typing this out lol
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.09.05 22:42:00 -
[125]
Originally by: VossKarr
Originally by: KilROCK Edited by: KilROCK on 05/09/2005 21:59:11 Yehaw for the Rupture. But where's my powergrid increase on the cynabal? It should be increased aswell since it's a rupture kinda-like stat ship..
Seems they are trying to bring the t1 frigates into the game for tackling a bit more... I mean seriously... now the executioner is faster than the slasher? That's kinda bull****..
I hope there's a grid increase for the Muninn as well...
Why? It's a beautiful ship. If you're having problems fitting it, you're stuffing 720II's on it and drooling.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
Kickass
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Posted - 2005.09.05 23:17:00 -
[126]
Tux,
Does anyone at ccp know that its nearly impossible for a lone missle boat BS to kill a tanked cruiser? And now you make their sig radius even smaller?
A thorax with plate and resistances can tank 2 ravens easy, long as its out of NOS range. Do you guys just want everyone to stop flying missle boats all together?
Does anyone at CCP even try this stuff out before you spew it all over us? Or is it just hey lets do this now, and screw em again...
You have not even fixed the bugs from the last couple of patches, why not work on that for a while before you creat new ones.
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2005.09.05 23:24:00 -
[127]
In this case no, they don't, because the stats in the DB are placeholders/first-pass-attempts and as such haven't been tested yet...
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VossKarr
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Posted - 2005.09.06 02:07:00 -
[128]
Edited by: VossKarr on 06/09/2005 02:26:41
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: VossKarr
Originally by: KilROCK Edited by: KilROCK on 05/09/2005 21:59:11 Yehaw for the Rupture. But where's my powergrid increase on the cynabal? It should be increased aswell since it's a rupture kinda-like stat ship..
Seems they are trying to bring the t1 frigates into the game for tackling a bit more... I mean seriously... now the executioner is faster than the slasher? That's kinda bull****..
I hope there's a grid increase for the Muninn as well...
Why? It's a beautiful ship. If you're having problems fitting it, you're stuffing 720II's on it and drooling.
I'm sorry, but I don't see how Muninn being a beautiful ship has anything to do with my hoping for its grid increase. Will increasing its grid suddenly turn it into an ugly ship? *Shrug*
Secondly, if the Rupture is getting boosted by 125 grid, then there must be a good, valid reason for that (assuming the change does go through)- no? Whatever the reason, it's gotta apply to the Muninn as well, if not more so - seeing as it's basically the same ship with regard to its slot layout, except that it does have one more high slot and, most importantly one additional turret hard point over the Rupture.
But, hell yeah, I am stuffing 720 II"s on it! So what? Should I feel guilty for doing so? It's not like it can fit anything else after that (besides the dmg mods) without needing another RCUII, right? Forget about the two remaining high slots and a decent tank without another RCUII! For those who don't want to go all ganka, that's two lows wasted right there, just to afford your ship a (half)decent fitting. Beautiful alright!
The Eagle, for instance, can fairly comfortably fit 4x250 II's, 2 HML II's in highs; an AB II, a LSB II, 2 hardeners, sensor booster II in mids and two dmg mods and one PDS II+ RCU II to fit it all in lows - without breaking a sweat. It's been given enough grid to support such setup without compromising anything else. Why shouldn't the Muninn be afforded the same?
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2005.09.06 02:15:00 -
[129]
Exactly. Because you won't apply a minimal amount of thought to the setup dosn't mean I haven't. Plz don't blame the ship you fly for that.
"Corpse cannot be fitted onto ship. Only hardware modules can be fitted." |
VossKarr
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Posted - 2005.09.06 02:43:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Maya Rkell Exactly. Because you won't apply a minimal amount of thought to the setup dosn't mean I haven't. Plz don't blame the ship you fly for that.
Ugh-huh. The ship doesn't have enough grid to support what I want it to fit with without wasting my lows on useless RCU's- not even PDS (and even then it's gimped in some way), that's the whole point. And please don't try to find an excuse for that in my inability to fit ships, because that sh*t just doesn't fly with me. And if one-liners like above are all you can come up with in response to my posts, then you might just as well not reply at all...
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2005.09.06 19:18:00 -
[131]
It's entirely possible that the inability to fit a rack of 720 IIs is intentional.
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Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2005.09.06 23:56:00 -
[132]
remove the 20% sig decrease for cruisers...
instead give them +50% base velocity... anything less than 50% is pretty useless ...
isnt it interesting that eg. a heavy missile has a explosion velocity of 1050 m/s at lv 4 ... but NOT A SINGLE CRUISER can achieve said speed with an active AB except the stabber which just reaches 1000 m/s which still isnt enough ...
hell I'M GLAD that this is CURRENTLY the case cuz heavy missiles already suffer from ubber low dmg ... NONE THE LESS it shows us how gimped the cruiser ship class is ...
so again plz give cruisers a 50% base speed boost instead of the sig radius changes ...
those 10% from the last patch were nice and dandy but it just wasnt enough and another 10% wont do the trick as well IT NEEDS TO BE 50%...
btw tracking of medium guns needs some tuning as well no matter if you change the speed or sig radius ...
Greetings Grim |
Jerod Nox
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Posted - 2005.09.07 04:44:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 02/09/2005 21:55:21
Originally by: Jerod Nox
Executioner: Slots changed from 2/1/3 to 2/2/3 Speed changed from 350m/s to 410m/s
Doesnt this make the executioner the undeniable king of T1 frigate speed?
*and* an extra mid slot?
...actually no.
applying the speed bonus inherent from minmatar frigates to the MK2 slasher (390*1.25 im case of minmatar frig at lvl5) would give to the slasher, an amazing 487,5m/s speed. add to that navigation skills, and the slasher comes ontop (mass of both ships is the same btw).
...and I can say that the slasher atm *can* sustain a mwd running forever if you put a CPR in that lonely low-slot.
Well lets see..
..my executioner already handles a Gistii MWD without any cap assistance at all (runs forever... never below 36%)
..my executioner has 3 low slots with 3 Local Hull Overdrive Injectors that each add 34m/s
..my executioner, after this change, will therefore have a base speed (counting overdrives, but not skills) of 410 + 3 * 34 = 512m/sec
..me executioner will thus be the king of T1 frigate speed..
..or I could fit me executioner with local hull nanofibers instead.. 410 + 3 * 24m/s .. or 482m/sec base speed.. just shy of the thrasher, but an increadible agility advantage.
all this... and an extra mid slot... obviously mr faction warp scrambler will look real nice in that slot... (not sure if it will fit with the gistii mounted as well)
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2005.09.07 04:56:00 -
[134]
Edited by: j0sephine on 07/09/2005 04:59:06
"..my executioner has 3 low slots with 3 Local Hull Overdrive Injectors that each add 34m/s
..my executioner, after this change, will therefore have a base speed (counting overdrives, but not skills) of 410 + 3 * 34 = 512m/sec
..me executioner will thus be the king of T1 frigate speed.."
No ^^
Slasher has single low slot, but due to ship bonus the same overdrive which gives you 34 m/sec extra, will give it 34 * 1.25 = 42.5 m/sec
So the final speed of Slasher before skills will be: (390+34) * 1.25 = 530 m/sec
close, but no banana -.^
(it won't be anymore able to put the cap recharger in low slot, but can more than make up for it with the mid slot cap rechargers if the extra mid slot change makes it in)
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Mitchman
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Posted - 2005.09.07 23:46:00 -
[135]
Well, the Heavy Assault ships need their production time lowered. As it is now, the demand is high for some of them (3 months waiting time at NAGA for a zealot!) is so high that the prices are getting ridiculous when you are actually able to find one.
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2005.09.08 01:59:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Nomen Nescio
Heavy drones - wtf? I was waiting and waiting and waiting and drone "overhaul" brought tech2?!!! Heavy drones are the killer of a cruiser class, not some sig! heavy drones can catch up and deal huge damage on cruiser np. Moreover, thorax is overpowered EXACTLY because heavy drones can hit under bs size extremely good. And they have HP wich is beyond cruiser weaponry.
OMG NERF THE ISHTAR!!!!!11111oneoneeleventyone!
Of course, I'd assume that medium drones would be brought up in damage if heavies were nerfed out of usefulness in any cruiser battle. Then again...
Proud member of Elite Academy. |
Justin Cody
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Posted - 2005.09.12 02:45:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Justin Cody on 12/09/2005 02:47:51 <sarcasm><whine>ehhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh</sarcasm><whine>
pathetic whining please stop now.
"Ill armed and half starved, they were still desperate men, to whom danger had lost all fears: for what was death that they should shun it to cling to such a life as theirs?"--- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle |
Darling Hassasin
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Posted - 2005.09.12 10:49:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Jerod Nox
Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 02/09/2005 21:55:21
Originally by: Jerod Nox
Executioner: Slots changed from 2/1/3 to 2/2/3 Speed changed from 350m/s to 410m/s
Doesnt this make the executioner the undeniable king of T1 frigate speed?
*and* an extra mid slot?
...actually no.
applying the speed bonus inherent from minmatar frigates to the MK2 slasher (390*1.25 im case of minmatar frig at lvl5) would give to the slasher, an amazing 487,5m/s speed. add to that navigation skills, and the slasher comes ontop (mass of both ships is the same btw).
...and I can say that the slasher atm *can* sustain a mwd running forever if you put a CPR in that lonely low-slot.
Well lets see..
..my executioner already handles a Gistii MWD without any cap assistance at all (runs forever... never below 36%)
..my executioner has 3 low slots with 3 Local Hull Overdrive Injectors that each add 34m/s
..my executioner, after this change, will therefore have a base speed (counting overdrives, but not skills) of 410 + 3 * 34 = 512m/sec
..me executioner will thus be the king of T1 frigate speed..
..or I could fit me executioner with local hull nanofibers instead.. 410 + 3 * 24m/s .. or 482m/sec base speed.. just shy of the thrasher, but an increadible agility advantage.
all this... and an extra mid slot... obviously mr faction warp scrambler will look real nice in that slot... (not sure if it will fit with the gistii mounted as well)
With all due respect doesnt it feel bad when all this named stuff dies in like... one volley or one smartbombor somthing? I mean why??? Are you people so filthy ritch it actually makes sense to use all that on a tech 1 frig???? Or are we just talking theory here??? (+ as I read in a nother thread a full head of snakes protected by a tech 1 frig hull set for speed ) Anyway you are brave indeed. Best of luck.
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Dryy
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Posted - 2005.09.13 06:48:00 -
[139]
I'm a noob so take this for what its worth. Couldn't a battleship or cruiser have a small weapon or 2 on board for when they get attacked by smaller ships? Seems people want to sit back in thier captains chairs and push the destroy button in thier big ships. The big ships have plenty of armor to take a beating while a small gun or 2 do thier work.
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Mardonius
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Posted - 2005.09.13 07:24:00 -
[140]
"Celestis: Slots changed from 5/4/3 to 4/5/3 Sig Radius from 135 to 108 meters"
Reading this has made my day. The Celestis is one of the most fun ships to fly and with 5 med slots I'm definitely looking forward to having a great Gallente EW cruiser. If this change takes place the MK2 project will have a huge impact for me.
Secondly, I think that Digital Communist has really hit the mark spot on 100 percent. His arguments totally make sense from a gameplay perspective and are well thought out. The issues he raises are key issues for PvP and need to urgently be addressed, especially the issues about heavy drones and heavy nosferatus.
No, I am not an alt of his, just a PvPer who has read this thread and every almost comment I thought about making he had already made.
I repeat, listen to Digital Communist please. Go back and read his posts. |
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Sable Terrick
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Posted - 2005.09.13 08:31:00 -
[141]
In response to the question about being filthy rich. Sometimes....the difference you get by throwing on a 30-50mil mod on a ship....makes the difference between dying and not.
As for the bit about the full snake set in a t1 frig. Since the question was how high can speed go...that was the highest you could do it...and honestly....if your going in even a remotely non straight line...what is gonna hit you at 13km/s
and since that statement was also about using an inty as the basis it wasnt a T1 frig.
back to lurking [img http://www.djstora.co.uk/images/sableterrick.jpg /img]
I know its just a game but i really wonder how many of these mouthy F*cks would have the stones to say that sort of thing in real life. |
Mr Floppyknickers
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Posted - 2005.09.13 09:15:00 -
[142]
The omen gets more grid! Yes... my one beef with that ship, so can't wait for the changes so i can get one.
Also of note, 900 grid on a maller? Whoa nelly! I can only begin to imagine some of the nasty setups and pvp action maller lovers are in for, have fun ladies and gents, cruisers are on the road to being sooo much more fun.
Nice frig changes to, the extra 5 grid and speed on my favorite friglette, the incursus, will make it an even better solo hunter and tackler. Tasty!
I hope to hell these changes go through looking this good or better. And it's nice to see they are adjusting the forgotten ships of eve as well. Here's hoping the helios gets an extra high slot and the prorator transport as well.
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keepiru
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Posted - 2005.09.13 10:01:00 -
[143]
On the subject of BCs, i see that as of right now, they all get some extra grid.
I would argue that the grid on the prophecy is fine, and that the brutix needs some extra cpu.
And incidentally, that if you shrink the sig radius of cruisers you should shrink the BC's too... 300m is a little high if cruisers go down to 95-110. ------------- Axe the Thorax's drone bay.
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.09.13 10:52:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Dryy I'm a noob so take this for what its worth. Couldn't a battleship or cruiser have a small weapon or 2 on board for when they get attacked by smaller ships? Seems people want to sit back in thier captains chairs and push the destroy button in thier big ships. The big ships have plenty of armor to take a beating while a small gun or 2 do thier work.
2 small guns wont help you against a ceptor
Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now? |
Dryy
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Posted - 2005.09.14 04:40:00 -
[145]
Thanks Nafri, somethings seem obvious to us new people. As I read, play and learn from you vets the game becomes clearer and more fun.
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Twi Night
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Posted - 2005.09.14 04:50:00 -
[146]
I hope they reveiw some assault ships, particulary:
-The worthless high on the retri and make it a med. -The vengeance needs another low / less weight... -Hawk needs missle hardpoints -the Caldari hacs damage bounus needs to be for all damage types - nuff said. - and other sub par ships.
Oh well, overall the changes look promising for what we may get.
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Sadist
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Posted - 2005.09.14 05:16:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Tuxford HAX!!!!!
First off your information were extracted from the client and not given to you by CCP so you can imagine that these values are not final.
The point of this whole overhaul is to make previously unused ship have a purpose. While I'm at it I'm looking over all grid and cpu of ships as well as changing some bonuses and in most cases improving them. The most drastic changes are on ships that were completely useless like Heron, Navitas and other ships.
There is a overall problems with cruisers being everybody's target and pretty much go down to every ship class so a overall boost to cruisers is needed. The signature radius is something that I wanted to try but tbh I haven't tested it that much and it will definitly go out if it is a massive nerf to heavy launchers.
Other numbers you have there have also been changed for example the low slot on Rifter was removed again, the extra med slot on Condor, Atron, Slasher and Executioner have been removed for now though I kind of want to move slots around on the executioner to give it 2 med slots.
You can expect a blog and a forum post about this project soon where we can calmly discuss these changes and you can give me some nice feedback on them. Hopefully you can play around with these ships soon, they replace the previous versions btw.
Clueless devs ftw? If you boost everything, the useless ships are still useless. To make them less useless try changing the bonus or boosting _only_ them.
Now, if I may, i dont know if anyone else is seeing this, but maybe there should be a reason to train for HAC's nowadays? Even given that HAC's will get slight boosts too, there's still less and less reason to risk flying a ship 5-10 (depends on race/fit) times more expensive than a tech 1 cruiser into combat situation where you have a significant chance of saying "buh-bye" to your precious. Anti-cruiser killing machine? With the stupidly unbalanced plates, 2 plated tier 3 cruisers can pwn a HAC, and guess what, they'll also be better at whooping frigs. There is a disturbing tendency in eve that you have to pay ridiculous amounts of isk for a slight boost in performance, holding constant your skills. I understand this in regard to some faction and novelty items, but it shouldn't become the defining principle of eve, especially on the tech 2 ship market with corresponding ship sizes. This also concerns AFs, which also need a sig reduction or some kind of bonus modification which will justify their cost. Other points have already been stated - guns should get an overhaul and some major rebalancing that would better define the sizes from each other, yet not floating towards gankage. Bah, looks like i've rambled again... --------------- VIP member of the [23] |
Earthan
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Posted - 2005.09.14 06:25:00 -
[148]
Imho hacs are fine , they are really powerful.If bs havent got noosferatus or target painters and webifiers, a hac can easily kill a bs.
And remmber they are elite cuirsers , thay dont ought to be to common.
AS for the cost of them , the problem is the monopol of few persons haveing bp and dictating prices.If they would cost less and insurance would be reasonable at last covering reasonable part it would be ok.
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2005.09.14 09:29:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Sadist
Originally by: Tuxford HAX!!!!!
First off your information were extracted from the client and not given to you by CCP so you can imagine that these values are not final.
The point of this whole overhaul is to make previously unused ship have a purpose. While I'm at it I'm looking over all grid and cpu of ships as well as changing some bonuses and in most cases improving them. The most drastic changes are on ships that were completely useless like Heron, Navitas and other ships.
There is a overall problems with cruisers being everybody's target and pretty much go down to every ship class so a overall boost to cruisers is needed. The signature radius is something that I wanted to try but tbh I haven't tested it that much and it will definitly go out if it is a massive nerf to heavy launchers.
Other numbers you have there have also been changed for example the low slot on Rifter was removed again, the extra med slot on Condor, Atron, Slasher and Executioner have been removed for now though I kind of want to move slots around on the executioner to give it 2 med slots.
You can expect a blog and a forum post about this project soon where we can calmly discuss these changes and you can give me some nice feedback on them. Hopefully you can play around with these ships soon, they replace the previous versions btw.
Clueless devs ftw? If you boost everything, the useless ships are still useless. To make them less useless try changing the bonus or boosting _only_ them.
Now, if I may, i dont know if anyone else is seeing this, but maybe there should be a reason to train for HAC's nowadays? Even given that HAC's will get slight boosts too, there's still less and less reason to risk flying a ship 5-10 (depends on race/fit) times more expensive than a tech 1 cruiser into combat situation where you have a significant chance of saying "buh-bye" to your precious. Anti-cruiser killing machine? With the stupidly unbalanced plates, 2 plated tier 3 cruisers can pwn a HAC, and guess what, they'll also be better at whooping frigs. There is a disturbing tendency in eve that you have to pay ridiculous amounts of isk for a slight boost in performance, holding constant your skills. I understand this in regard to some faction and novelty items, but it shouldn't become the defining principle of eve, especially on the tech 2 ship market with corresponding ship sizes. This also concerns AFs, which also need a sig reduction or some kind of bonus modification which will justify their cost. Other points have already been stated - guns should get an overhaul and some major rebalancing that would better define the sizes from each other, yet not floating towards gankage. Bah, looks like i've rambled again...
It is possible to boost everything but boost some things more than others...
Should also be noted that, if IIRC, HAC insurance covers build costs. Pretty much every single Isk you pay over the insurance cost is profit going into somebody's pocket. The prices are that high because that's what the market will sustain. Thus, the reason they are expensive is simply because a) they're popular, b) they're rare and c) people like making money. If you look closer the less popular ships go for less because the big manufacturers can't sell them for much more than that. The Eve economy insures that, by and large, things are sold for about as much as people think they're worth. Remember, those prices aren't set by the Devs, they're set by your fellow players in response to your buying habits. And if you boosted AF to make them even more effective, you'd just see a price rise :P
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Nafri
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Posted - 2005.09.14 09:36:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Dryy Thanks Nafri, somethings seem obvious to us new people. As I read, play and learn from you vets the game becomes clearer and more fun.
against small ships is best drones and a web, no interceptor/AF will survive your drones when hes webbed
Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now? |
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