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ariana ailith
Dynakinetics
Reciprocal Aegis
46
   |
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have a spare Mac Mini and currently run Eve on it on OSX.
Unfortunately it's a bit wonky and slow as one would expect from the Mac port.
I'm wondering if eve would run better on that same Mini if i run it with Windows.
I could just try, but since installing it and such is solely for Eve it would take a few hours. Hours I rather spend doing something else if I'm only going to find out it makes no difference.
Does anyone have any experience with this?
The mini in question is a Mid 2011 model, i5 2.3Ghz, 8GB ram with a Intel HD3000 GPU (So 512mb video ram)
No, I'm not buying a PC. I have this Mini.
Yes, I know Eve generally runs poorly on Mac.
No, I do not need your input/reply if you have nothing useful to say on my specific question.
Please share your experiences so I can make a somewhat educated decision to try or not. Thanks!  |
Posta Wifda Mosta
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
71
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
I personally would think the native OS rather then some kind of VM. |
ariana ailith
Dynakinetics
Reciprocal Aegis
46
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yes, I'm not looking into installing a VM...
I mean run the "real" windows in Bootcamp. Same as making a dualboot. |
Captain Tardbar
NEWB ALERT
236
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
From personal experience of when I did use a Mac. The windows seemed to have better graphics for some reason on the same computer.
Other than that it performed pretty much the same.
"Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby".
If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. |
Kazuma Gaterau
Fenrir's Dogs of War
Union 0f Revolution
15
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Switching it to windows won't make much of a difference as the issue seems to be hardware.
Specifically the fact that the mini uses an integrated video card.
Physically upgrading the mini is impossible. (Or so it seems, I haven't attempted it, I have used mac minis before, but never opened one up physically since well they're a bit of an odd shape)
My suggestion would be to lower the graphic settings. Sure it won't look great, but the choice you have is playability vs visuals. To me, on my laptop that I use at my girlfriend's house, I run on medium/low which is better than not running it at all.
Just try lowering the graphic settings.
ESPECIALLY, SHADOWs. Shadows always kill video cards performence even integrated. It is the video cards natural enemy the way that things render to create shadows. |
Posta Wifda Mosta
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
72
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
ariana ailith wrote:Yes, I'm not looking into installing a VM...
I mean run the "real" windows in Bootcamp. Same as making a dualboot.
Bootcamp is still a virtual machine.
|
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
1382
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:16:00 -
[7] - Quote
Windows obviously, everybody knows its the superior system. |
ariana ailith
Dynakinetics
Reciprocal Aegis
46
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:From personal experience of when I did use a Mac. The windows seemed to have better graphics for some reason on the same computer.
Other than that it performed pretty much the same.
The game itself runs fine, or so it seems.
But the FPS is awful, even on low settings. So it could be worth the try then :) |
Mark Munoz
Str8ngeBrew
STR8NGE BREW
101
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 20:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Posta Wifda Mosta wrote:ariana ailith wrote:Yes, I'm not looking into installing a VM...
I mean run the "real" windows in Bootcamp. Same as making a dualboot. Bootcamp is still a virtual machine.
Bootcamp is not a virtual machine please educate yourself before you go around spouting "facts".
Bootcamp is nothing more than marketing lingo Apple uses to dub its driver set it gives so that your Mac can run Windows natively no different than a Dell would.
Yes running windows has given me more than double the performance. The Mac client sucks. They use something called TransGaming to accomplish the Mac version of EVE. Transgaming is essentially virtualization with the specific purpose of a game. It performs better than say Parallels or VMWare as it is tailored to your specific game but the performance is horrible compared to native performance. |
Inu Motsu
Tous Pour Un
Une Pour Tous
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Posta Wifda Mosta wrote:ariana ailith wrote:Yes, I'm not looking into installing a VM...
I mean run the "real" windows in Bootcamp. Same as making a dualboot. Bootcamp is still a virtual machine.
Wow. How ignorant.
Mark Munoz is right : mac client sucks, even on decent mac configs. The main concern is, it uses cider (apple wine... hehe) in order to access graphical output layer.
So the right answer is, if you have a Windows key (seven works fine for me), give it a try install it on your mac. Most games are nicer and put less stress on your GPU on Windows (even with older drivers). |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1733
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Other things to think about:
Yes it will run faster. But what else do you use the computer for? If everything else you do on that computer is on the Mac side you will find yourself booting back and forth. An exercise in tedium. You may find its better to accept a reduction in graphics and a lower FPS rather than booting over and over.
Now if its a dedicated Eve only computer, this issue goes away.
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
ariana ailith
Dynakinetics
Reciprocal Aegis
46
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Right, bootcamp is not a VM.
I think I just need to try Windows and see how things go.
@vincent - Yea that's an excellent point. But I have my iMac as my main computer. The mini, as mentioned, is a spare and does nothing else but Eve at the moment.
Thanks guys! |
Mark Munoz
Str8ngeBrew
STR8NGE BREW
101
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 21:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Other things to think about:
Yes it will run faster. But what else do you use the computer for? If everything else you do on that computer is on the Mac side you will find yourself booting back and forth. An exercise in tedium. You may find its better to accept a reduction in graphics and a lower FPS rather than booting over and over.
Now if its a dedicated Eve only computer, this issue goes away.
This is very true.
I find myself playing on the Mac side FAR more than Windows regardless of the performance hit. Usually the only time I am logged into the Windows side is if it's the weekend and I don't actually have to get real work done. |
Posta Wifda Mosta
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
72
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 22:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mark Munoz wrote:Posta Wifda Mosta wrote:ariana ailith wrote:Yes, I'm not looking into installing a VM...
I mean run the "real" windows in Bootcamp. Same as making a dualboot. Bootcamp is still a virtual machine. Bootcamp is not a virtual machine please educate yourself before you go around spouting "facts". Bootcamp is nothing more than marketing lingo Apple uses to dub its driver set it gives so that your Mac can run Windows natively no different than a Dell would. Yes running windows has given me more than double the performance. The Mac client sucks. They use something called TransGaming to accomplish the Mac version of EVE. Transgaming is essentially virtualization with the specific purpose of a game. It performs better than say Parallels or VMWare as it is tailored to your specific game but the performance is horrible compared to native performance.
Sure it is, without bootcamp will a mac run windows? No it won't, so boot camp is in effect a virtual machine for windows. Duh |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
1733
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 22:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
ariana ailith wrote:Right, bootcamp is not a VM.
I think I just need to try Windows and see how things go.
@vincent - Yea that's an excellent point. But I have my iMac as my main computer. The mini, as mentioned, is a spare and does nothing else but Eve at the moment.
Thanks guys!
You might find eve runs better on an iMac under OSX than on a mini under Windows.
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Raiz Nhell
Kangaroo Ate my baby
Orchestrated Alliance
249
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 22:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
I have never played on the Windows Client so I can't judge the performance differences...
However I have run Eve quite happily for years on my MacPro, a 30inch cinema display makes for a good game experience....
And I run it on my MacBook Pro and MacBook Air...
I would run it natively on the Mac... it is just easier that having a nearly useless bootcamp partition on your HD...
There is no such thing as a fair fight...
If your fighting fair you have automatically put yourself at a disadvantage. |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
217
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 22:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Posta Wifda Mosta wrote:Mark Munoz wrote:Posta Wifda Mosta wrote:ariana ailith wrote:Yes, I'm not looking into installing a VM...
I mean run the "real" windows in Bootcamp. Same as making a dualboot. Bootcamp is still a virtual machine. Bootcamp is not a virtual machine please educate yourself before you go around spouting "facts". Bootcamp is nothing more than marketing lingo Apple uses to dub its driver set it gives so that your Mac can run Windows natively no different than a Dell would. Yes running windows has given me more than double the performance. The Mac client sucks. They use something called TransGaming to accomplish the Mac version of EVE. Transgaming is essentially virtualization with the specific purpose of a game. It performs better than say Parallels or VMWare as it is tailored to your specific game but the performance is horrible compared to native performance. Sure it is, without bootcamp will a mac run windows? No it won't, so boot camp is in effect a virtual machine for windows. Duh
Yes it will, it's just not worth the hassle to do it without bootcamp, as all you gain is about 10GB of hard drive, while losing the one reason to buy mac in the first place. |
Stan'din
Incursion Squad
Punkz 'n Monkeys
57
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 23:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Games: Windows > Mac
Nothing more to say
Your about as much use as a condom dispenser in the Vatican. |
Mark Munoz
Str8ngeBrew
STR8NGE BREW
103
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 23:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
Posta Wifda Mosta wrote:Mark Munoz wrote:Posta Wifda Mosta wrote:ariana ailith wrote:Yes, I'm not looking into installing a VM...
I mean run the "real" windows in Bootcamp. Same as making a dualboot. Bootcamp is still a virtual machine. Bootcamp is not a virtual machine please educate yourself before you go around spouting "facts". Bootcamp is nothing more than marketing lingo Apple uses to dub its driver set it gives so that your Mac can run Windows natively no different than a Dell would. Yes running windows has given me more than double the performance. The Mac client sucks. They use something called TransGaming to accomplish the Mac version of EVE. Transgaming is essentially virtualization with the specific purpose of a game. It performs better than say Parallels or VMWare as it is tailored to your specific game but the performance is horrible compared to native performance. Sure it is, without bootcamp will a mac run windows? No it won't, so boot camp is in effect a virtual machine for windows. Duh
Again please go educate yourself. Yes a Mac will run Windows, Linux, Unix, or any other OS designed to run on x86 hardware. Again bootcamp is DRIVERS. So that the pretty keyboard and mouse retain all their functions. Much in the same way a new computer you buy comes with a CD with DRIVERS on it. Bootcamp is the exact same thing. I am not sure why this is so hard for you to wrap your head around. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
3062
|
Posted - 2013.03.27 23:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
I got better performance running the Windows client in VMWare than running the Mac Client. Though I switched to running EVE exclusively on a Bootcamp partition last January
So, in my experience:
Bootcamp > VMWare + Windows Client > Mac Client.
Posta Wifda Mosta wrote:Sure it is, without bootcamp will a mac run windows? No it won't, so boot camp is in effect a virtual machine for windows. Duh
Make a partition, format it NTFS, and stick a Windows XP disk into any x86 Mac without ever running the bootcamp helper. It'll install and run just fine (though you may have trouble finding proper drivers for some hardware without going to the bootcamp disk).
This is EVE - Everybody Versus Everybody.
"the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP)." -CCP Solomon |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
13416
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 00:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
If you've got beefy enough a Mac, you might as well run the Mac client because of the hassle that is created by having to reboot every time you want to play the game (including just logging in to change skills). The real problem with the client is that it is immensely wasteful with video RAM GÇö effectively, everything has to be loaded into memory three times (once by DirectX, once by Cider, once by OpenGL) before it can be chummed into something that appears on the screen. Everything else works as it should, but the one area where EVE can really start to punish any system is also the one area where the OSX client is the most inefficient. Still, enough oomph will solve that problem through sheer brute force.
The problem is that, as mentioned, a Mini doesn't really qualify as GÇ£beefy enoughGÇ¥, and to such a degree that it's questionable whether going Windows native offers much of an improvement to begin with.
On the other hand, it will still run the OSX client well enough to let you do some basic AFK-gameplay maintenance: alter sell orders, fiddle with industry, change skills and all that. Hell, my Air allows that without starting to cough up bloodGǪ well, not much at least. So in some cases, it might actually be worth doing both: an OSX install for the small stuff; a bootcamped Window install for longer sessions of heavy lifting.
Vote Malcanis for CSM8. |
ariana ailith
Dynakinetics
Reciprocal Aegis
46
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 16:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
Well I gave it a go... Installed windows 7 64b on it. It runs better on OSX for this one.
On windows I had to disable all LOD and set everything to low to get slightly comparable performance to the OSX side where I can enable all LOD except trails and use low/med settings.
OSX Still superior :)
But... If my Eve addiction is a thing again I will be on the lookout for some better hardware in a while. |
Mika Talus
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 16:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
The short answer is "maybe."
I run EVE on the same Mac Mini, except with only 2 GIG of RAM. With everything turned down to the bare minimum, I get the occasional stutter (frigging gas clouds) it's still very playable. The game does throw my Mini's fan into full-blow wind tunnel mode, though. If you're having serious frame rate problems with everything turned down, perhaps you are having heat issues.
Anyway, booting a real version of Windows on your Mini will eliminate the emulation layer (the Cider wrapper), but you're still stuck with the on-board Intel graphics which, while not the worst chipset they ever shipped, isn't very good. That's the major bottleneck you're likely running into.
My current plan is to replace--soon--this Mini with an iMac sporting an NVIDIA card, which is likely the most viable option for you as well. |
Zxays
Echolon Four Inc.
2
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 19:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mark Munoz wrote: I am not sure why this is so hard for you to wrap your head around.
One word: Troll.
-It's easier to let them starve then to fight them with good reason. |
Whitehound
1409
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 23:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
I do not know the technical details of a Mini Mac, but assuming it can run a decent Windows version with DirectX 9 or 10 should you go for Windows. Using the native OS has a good chance that you can run the game at its best settings or just save more power than you would with using a non-native system. If this does not appeal to you then stay with what you have and spare yourself the effort, because there is no difference in game content whether you run EVE on Windows or not.
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling. |
Ace Uoweme
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
17
|
Posted - 2013.03.31 23:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
Mark Munoz wrote:This is very true.
I find myself playing on the Mac side FAR more than Windows regardless of the performance hit. Usually the only time I am logged into the Windows side is if it's the weekend and I don't actually have to get real work done.
This thread reminds me of a Windows vs *nix threads.
And still missing the point: Windows is popular and the goto platform for gaming (and about everything else) because they long sealed the software market.
Everything else is moot.
To make it work on another platform just look at the rings folks have to run around. All I have to do is install it...bing...works. Thank you Windows 7.
Time efficiency and more you use the platform that works. Unless you're into publishing and maybe music production (where again software domination rules and this time for Macs) it's Windows.
Occam's Razor rulez.
"In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
~George Orwell
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