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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Marr Hunter
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Posted - 2005.09.05 00:33:00 -
[1]
Let's pretend that I lend someone some isk. They don't look like an alt, and the project they want help funding gives every appearance of going ahead on schedule. Then, later on, that pilot vanishes from all comms, and has not been seen or heard from since.
Now, should they turn up again, things can be worked out one way or another, but let's assume this was a crime. Assume they created a new identity, transferred the capital across and ran off giggling.
That sounds like an abuse of game mechanics to me, as there is no in-game way to track them down. Unfortunately, there is also no outside-game way, as CPP's considered opinion on such cases is that they can give out zero information. Not even so much as "Yeah, that player is genuinely inactive, so probably no foul play."
Any thoughts on what to do?
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Marruni
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Posted - 2005.09.05 00:45:00 -
[2]
Never loan isk unless it is your friend ? RL friend maybe  |
Aotearorian
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Posted - 2005.09.05 00:49:00 -
[3]
Get collateral? :) That RL solution. :)
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.09.05 00:54:00 -
[4]
What to do?
Learn from your loss
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Don ZOLA
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Posted - 2005.09.05 04:47:00 -
[5]
u sir, have been scammed i think :/
There are 2 rules in a successful life: 1. Don't tell people everything you know |
Kuolematon
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Posted - 2005.09.05 05:22:00 -
[6]
... that investor who got 1.4bil from me to his business, first few months went smoothly and I got nice fat revenue .. but now it has all stopped. His from Finland so his not scammer but still .. I wanna know whats up 
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My opinions aren't my corporations opinions.
"I troll, therefor I am!" //\\ Suomi-Finland-Perkele asennetta! |
ASIV TRE
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Posted - 2005.09.05 07:31:00 -
[7]
2 things really,
1. like someone said only lend isk to someone you know in real life so u can go round and have a word if they dont pay you back 
2. Only lend isk you can afford to lose
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Hamatitio
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Posted - 2005.09.05 08:08:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Kuolematon
... that investor who got 1.4bil from me to his business, first few months went smoothly and I got nice fat revenue .. but now it has all stopped. His from Finland so his not scammer but still .. I wanna know whats up
OH!
OK!
He is from finland, he can't be a scammer. Maybe he got ina car accident, I am sure the most important thing on his mind is your isk.
You will probably get it back within the week.
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Director of Ganking:
Deathrow Inc |
Kuolematon
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Posted - 2005.09.05 08:37:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Hamatitio
OH!
OK!
He is from finland, he can't be a scammer. Maybe he got ina car accident, I am sure the most important thing on his mind is your isk.
You will probably get it back within the week.
Yep, why would finnish people backstab another country men? I don't see logic here. Beside it's Finland with capital F ffs 
Perhaps only stupid finn here in EVE is Heikki who kills fellow country men 
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My opinions aren't my corporations opinions.
"I troll, therefor I am!" //\\ Suomi-Finland-Perkele asennetta! |
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Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2005.09.05 08:49:00 -
[10]
Marr I'm afraid you have been scammed and scamming is pretty much allowed by the GM's, just like ore theft and corporation theft.
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage
You spin me right round, baby. |
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Moghydin
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Posted - 2005.09.05 09:01:00 -
[11]
As I said in the other thread - banking won't work in Eve because no economic law is here. If the recieving party decides not to return the loan, the "bank" can not do a thing and the "scammer" has no consequencies, not even a slight security loss.
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Cecil Montague
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Posted - 2005.09.05 11:05:00 -
[12]
It's often touted that Eve has one of the most complex economies of any MMO. However if it is to continue to grow perhaps a more involved and complex banking system is needed.
I'd be happy to see that rather than a few more ships i'll never get to fly anyway. Or maybe i've been working for a bank too long? 
"There is no such thing as an effective segment of totality." - Bruce Lee |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.09.05 11:07:00 -
[13]
I dont see how a banking system can be implemented,
Like someone pointed out, you need collateral against your loan.
If that collateral is blown up then what can the bank do? Cancel your account to play the game until you ebay ISK?
Make you mine veld in Yulai for 3 hours a day?
It cant possibly work.
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Cecil Montague
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Posted - 2005.09.05 12:07:00 -
[14]
While it's true you could not make someone pay back the loan you can't do that IRL either. You can't make someone your slave because they haven't paid their credit card bill. What you can do is impose penaltys.
Say if you default you no longer get rat bounties as they go toward paying off the loan. Perhaps restrictions on market use (no T2 goodies for being a bad boy). Or even a cut of any ore you refine.
Also some way of being blacklisted. If you default in real life it goes on a reference file which gets looked at before anyone will give you anything. Rack up a bad file and no one is gonna lend you a thing.
Heck even a reduction in sec status, that's what it's for after all.
"There is no such thing as an effective segment of totality." - Bruce Lee |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.09.05 14:41:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Cecil Montague
While it's true you could not make someone pay back the loan you can't do that IRL either. You can't make someone your slave because they haven't paid their credit card bill. What you can do is impose penaltys.
Say if you default you no longer get rat bounties as they go toward paying off the loan. Perhaps restrictions on market use (no T2 goodies for being a bad boy). Or even a cut of any ore you refine.
Also some way of being blacklisted. If you default in real life it goes on a reference file which gets looked at before anyone will give you anything. Rack up a bad file and no one is gonna lend you a thing.
Heck even a reduction in sec status, that's what it's for after all.
Overly restrictuve on gameplay. No rat bounties means no ammunition which means no rats get shot.
Sure, you can refine loot and make ammo. Wait. No ISK to rent a factory slot...
Ok, I'm ****ed with this system. I'll go and mine and give the mins to my alt to refine to avoid losing the cut. Hmm, wonder if my alt can borrow money? How's the credit check system?
I've not even thought about it in depth and it's incredibly complicated. Maybe someone can come up with a great simple idea. I'll be stunned silent if they do. And that will be a first
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Marr Hunter
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Posted - 2005.09.05 15:37:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Eris Discordia
Marr I'm afraid you have been scammed and scamming is pretty much allowed by the GM's, just like ore theft and corporation theft.
Possibly I have. On the other hand, the other party had the employment history and demonstrated skills of an active pilot of similar experience to myself. The amount I loaned him hardly seemed worth abandoning that much work for, so I'm really not sure.
Again, though, assume I have been, and that he's changed indentity to avoid justice. That's the part I have a problem with, the total in-character anonymity easily acheived through the use of alts. It really jars suspension of disbelief, and can be abused six ways from Sunday - thus most online games I've played had a strict policy against playing multiple characters as if they were just different names for the same person.
EVE does not take this approach, then?
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Dr jekyII
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Posted - 2005.09.05 17:49:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Dr jekyII on 05/09/2005 17:49:50
just out of curiosity 'how much was this loan?
there are unscrouplous people eve b=ware |
Remedial
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Posted - 2005.09.06 00:09:00 -
[18]
Contracts in ingame Eve are currently unenforceable in all circumstances except the Escrow and Market functions, and even then there is fairly little that can be done about fraud. There are very few protections for capitalism in Eve. Much of it is essentially anarchic.
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Lo3d3R
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Posted - 2005.09.06 00:18:00 -
[19]
would be nice if there were NPC-loans, like you get NPC's chasing you if you dont pay up etc, I could think of some rather fun scenarios.
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Remedial
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Posted - 2005.09.06 01:57:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Lo3d3R
would be nice if there were NPC-loans, like you get NPC's chasing you if you dont pay up etc, I could think of some rather fun scenarios.
It'd be used as a way to farm NPCs unless there was like no bounty on the NPCs or they dropped really crap loot.
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FooB2
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Posted - 2005.09.06 21:32:00 -
[21]
theres one golden rule involving free stuff in eve that people should all go by.
if theyre arent close enough to give them something for free in real life, then theyre not worth giving anything to.
arms length is a beutiful thing
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Inferno Torpedo I belonging to Celestial Angel hits you, doing 99.0 damage. |
Feta Solamnia
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Posted - 2005.09.07 09:52:00 -
[22]
banking system should be easy to make.
Just allow players to agree on "payable bills"(the wallet ones like factory payments) and the penalty % rates for getting late (also there in the UI, don't know if it ever kicks in).
The standard rules could apply for getting late on payments, and extremely overdue loans could kick in like SCC fines and disable your wallet to you pay the loan.
Originally by: Oveur
I have access to all market data. Believe me, we have not reached anything close to deflation yet.
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Von Korona
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Posted - 2005.09.07 16:06:00 -
[23]
It would be possible to do loans with NPC banks or with player corps with features like the following:
"Credit rating" (like sec rating for finance) Starts on 0 and takes time to build up
Unsecured loans (from npcs they would start pretty small and take time to build up) some kind of interface to chedule repayments and interest would be cool. Late payment shoots up your credit rating.
Secured loans (with a ship as colateral). This would be more complicated. Basically you get the value of the ship as a loan with scheduled repayments. In excahange the bank insures your ship, so if it dies you get no money.
You would still need some rating to get these loans but it would be reduced. Non payment means the bank reposesses your ship and destroys your credit rating. Only one loan per person (to stop people 'daisychaining' a fleet - where the first ship is colateral for the second which is colateral for the third and so on).
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Tinweasel
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Posted - 2005.09.07 16:30:00 -
[24]
A corrolary of the 1st commandment of hanger access.
1. Thou shall give no one aceess to your hangers that you can not lay your rl hands on.
a. Corrolary1 . Thou shall give Nothing you expect to get back to anyone you can not lay your hands on.
b. Corrolary2. Thou shall Loan nothing to anyone who can and will turn you inside out after they have decided to steal your things.
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Thun
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Posted - 2005.09.07 16:44:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Thun on 07/09/2005 16:45:15
topic is m00t...
Anyone getting a loan csn transfer the funds to another character then delete the borrowing character.
edit: spelling error
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Pestillence
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Posted - 2005.09.07 20:31:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Von Korona
It would be possible to do loans with NPC banks or with player corps with features like the following:
"Credit rating" (like sec rating for finance) Starts on 0 and takes time to build up
Unsecured loans (from npcs they would start pretty small and take time to build up) some kind of interface to chedule repayments and interest would be cool. Late payment shoots up your credit rating.
Secured loans (with a ship as colateral). This would be more complicated. Basically you get the value of the ship as a loan with scheduled repayments. In excahange the bank insures your ship, so if it dies you get no money.
You would still need some rating to get these loans but it would be reduced. Non payment means the bank reposesses your ship and destroys your credit rating. Only one loan per person (to stop people 'daisychaining' a fleet - where the first ship is colateral for the second which is colateral for the third and so on).
How silly.
Lose ship. No insurance, no means to buy a new ship.
Cancel account.
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Liu Kaskakka
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Posted - 2005.09.07 20:38:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Kuolematon
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Yep, why would finnish people backstab another country men? I don't see logic here. Beside it's Finland with capital F ffs
Perhaps only stupid finn here in EVE is Heikki who kills fellow country men
Hey, I'm from Finland too. Now, gimme your isk and I'll promise to take good care of it!
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