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Flyer11
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Posted - 2005.09.05 20:20:00 -
[1]
im unsure where to place this idea so i put it in general section, im quite new to eve only amonth or so into it.. how about a EVE bank where u can take out loans etc.. may sound a stupid idea but when your new and newer than me money is a hard thing to come by.. especially when u wanna buy a better ship.. such as a BS or cruise and skills etc.. i mined 2 days straight and only earned 1 and half mill.. i gues sim impaient and want to get out in the world of eve instead of being stuck minning all time
this is no aplee for money its a idea lol
Flyer11
plz dnt blow me up if u see me lol.. ive lost 5 throax's due to pvp rats i can barely defend myself when they are in big ships lol
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Attiladehun
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Posted - 2005.09.05 20:22:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Attiladehun on 05/09/2005 20:22:10
eh, you better mine scordite in empire in a safe system 0.9-1.0 where are not many people (ore stealers), but euhm 2 days and 1.5M sounds strange. Not sure what you can fit (miner II) what ship (cruiser/frig) but mine scordite to start off and you'll earn more when you can get a better cruiser to mine in.
Btw nice sig
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.09.05 20:23:00 -
[3]
come out to low sec and mine some jaspet youll be rich in no time. Or level 1 missions.
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Douglas McCracken
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Posted - 2005.09.05 20:24:00 -
[4]
nah players will just create alts and transfer their money without repaying the loan.. very exploitable
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sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.09.05 20:37:00 -
[5]
come out to low sec and run missions the ISK rewards are 2x as much as they are in high sec.
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Flyer11
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Posted - 2005.09.05 20:38:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Flyer11 on 05/09/2005 20:40:36
 Originally by: Douglas Mc*****en
nah players will just create alts and transfer their money without repaying the loan.. very exploitable
very true, but maybe if ccp thought about they'd tie it to the account not to the individual player
and im in 0.6 atm ive mined some jasp but i cant protect myself that well against the PVP and NPC rats whilst in my barges, and i can only use the meduim drones which cant hack it
and low sec places i darent come out to as ive lost so many ships due to pvp i cant withstand loosing my new rax or ill be skint
Flyer11
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Einheriar Ulrich
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Posted - 2005.09.05 21:37:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Einheriar Ulrich on 05/09/2005 21:55:43
I think its a good idea....
And if someone doesnt pay their due's, then you should be able to take on a Job as Repoman, confiscating their ships, and lock down their hangars, even podding them to make an example
So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar.
****Minion Of VOTF****
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2005.09.05 21:37:00 -
[8]
Aren't there already a bunch of bankers in Eve?
Ayeilla > Yes, Lineage 2
has the most unhelpful
Gm's and tech support
around
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Benilopax
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Posted - 2005.09.06 21:06:00 -
[9]
what about a bank where you can put isk in and get interest out?
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Douglas McCracken
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Posted - 2005.09.06 21:07:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Benilopax
what about a bank where you can put isk in and get interest out?
yeah like T2 BPO holders need anymore isk for doing cack all
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Raem Civrie
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Posted - 2005.09.06 21:08:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Raem Civrie on 06/09/2005 21:08:34
Player-run bank is the only possibility. And just imagine the degree of trust required there... sheesh
Also, wallet export to Excel (or similar formats) is a must imho
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Is this a constructive thread? |
Flyer11
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Posted - 2005.09.06 23:20:00 -
[12]
*bump* i havnt been able to get on the forums for past few days.. i think its a good idea for a ccp bank to be built and if people dont pay up, there ships are locked down and they are given some type of icon like bounty have skulls etc and allows anyone to pod them for a reward or concord does it for them lol its a good idea.. id certainly take the loan out then could afford half my things alot quicker lmao instead i sit in my barge on alonely belt in allamotte killing 2k npc rats with drones and minning into cans that i can fill in 10minutes for hardly any cash etc
Flyer11
Fly Safe
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Ebedar
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Posted - 2005.09.07 01:11:00 -
[13]
One way I can envisage this being done by NPCs (though still not totally secure) is to use a player's security status as a kind of credit rating. Features would be as follows:
- only players above a certain sec status (say +1.0) would be given loans
- the amount a player could be loaned would be dependent on how high their sec status is (e.g. those whose sec status is between +3 and +4 could borrow more than those whose sec is between +1 and +2)
- sec status above the +1 base value would be temporarily traded in for the duration of the loan (e.g. each .1 of sec status would allow you to borrow X million ISK dependent on how much you were allowed to borrow according to the previous point) and this would be returned once the loan was paid off
- failure to pay back the loan (or installments) at the right time would result in: your sec status being reset to 0; the outstanding money being 'taken off' your 0 sec status according to how much you still owe (e.g. if you still owe 0.5 sec status worth of the ISK, you would lose that amount of sec beyond and end up at -0.5)
I hope that makes some form of sense, but I'm pretty tired right now so it might not 
Obvious problems are that it's not aimed at newbies, rather those who have invested time in raising standing (though this is also the very reason the NPCs have for 'trusting' you). It's still possible that a player could abuse the system by either taking the loan just before he ends his account (and transferring the cash to a friend, for example) or could choose to go from being a high sec good guy to a low sec bad guy in one swoop and just take the money and run.
Some form of 'credit history' would also have to be introduced to stop players from repeatedly working up their sec status and taking money (not that it would be easy). Perhaps someone with a history of failing on payments would have to work their sec status to +1.5 or +2 the next time they wished to take out a loan.
Anyway that's the gist of it, I'll stop typing now.
One Step Further |
Flyer11
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Posted - 2005.09.16 16:45:00 -
[14]
BUMP
another idea is.. like ccp offer if u pay u can transfer ur charecter and and change your charecter.. ccp could act as a bank if u say pay ú10 they will give u 500mil and say a limit of ú10 for 2 months or so
so say u pay them a fee and they tansfer it to ISK and then u cant pay again for a set amount of time.. sound good idea cos i would defently do it cos minning is driving me insane in my meduim barge and not making much progress, what i do mine goes straight back out in charges for corp hanger etc [im corp ceo]
its worth the idea guys, i would pay
Flyer11
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LoxyRider
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Posted - 2005.09.16 16:51:00 -
[15]
Back in my day 1.5mil in 2 days was damn good work  .
Of course now 1.5mil is 2min hard work  .
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Eris Discordia; I think the proper term is <3
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Lyle Waters
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Posted - 2005.09.16 16:51:00 -
[16]
You should have been here from the start when times were really hard....
Took months before you could afford a cruiser...
Geez, kids today have it so easy...
___________________________________________
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El Yatta
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Posted - 2005.09.16 16:55:00 -
[17]
You're suggesting CCP should SELL you ISK?? When they hate ISK sellers and try to close them down...
---:::---
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.09.16 17:02:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 16/09/2005 17:02:59
Originally by: Flyer11
*bump* i havnt been able to get on the forums for past few days.. i think its a good idea for a ccp bank to be built and if people dont pay up, there ships are locked down and they are given some type of icon like bounty have skulls etc and allows anyone to pod them for a reward or concord does it for them lol its a good idea.. id certainly take the loan out then could afford half my things alot quicker lmao instead i sit in my barge on alonely belt in allamotte killing 2k npc rats with drones and minning into cans that i can fill in 10minutes for hardly any cash etc
Flyer11
Fly Safe
-Take out loan with your ship as security.
Get ship blown up. tansfer it, park in space and steal it with main, or whatever other sploit you could think of.
-No more security
-Default loan
-Make new alt
-repeat
Even if coupled to accounts (which would really screw with immersion which alone would make me say no to it), people will still use aco****s to take out max loans of all chars and then default.
Essentially, loans in Eve will never work on a large scale.
Maybe witht he upcoming contract system limited inter-player loaning with some securities put into escrow-stasis would work. But then again, doing tha ton a large scale would without doubt lead to too low margin of profitability and too much of an administrative nightmare to the players involved to warrant tying up all their cash in.
There's too many ways to make more isk doing something else to make it worthwhile to a player, and any NPC based system is bound to be sploited to hell and back or be useless because of the anti-sploit restraints.
Altho, if someone can come up with an airtight system that is both worthwhile AND safe, by all means post it. I havent been able to, and I'm a frigging banker in RL :p
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Quanteeri
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Posted - 2005.09.16 17:05:00 -
[19]
Yeah, it would be great, but there is no way to hold someone responsible.
I would really love to see something done about alts being tracable to an account, then maybe lonesharking would be a viable profession.
Go Fred! |
Quanteeri
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Posted - 2005.09.16 17:08:00 -
[20]
Yeah, it would be great, but there is no way to hold someone responsible.
I would really love to see something done about alts being tracable to an account, then maybe lonesharking would be a viable profession.
Oh and to the OP, chances are, since your char is so young, jumping into a BS might be a bad idea.
Go Fred! |
Hopey
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Posted - 2005.09.16 17:11:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Flyer11
im unsure where to place this idea so i put it in general section, im quite new to eve only amonth or so into it.. how about a EVE bank where u can take out loans etc.. may sound a stupid idea but when your new and newer than me money is a hard thing to come by.. especially when u wanna buy a better ship.. such as a BS or cruise and skills etc.. i mined 2 days straight and only earned 1 and half mill.. i gues sim impaient and want to get out in the world of eve instead of being stuck minning all time
this is no aplee for money its a idea lol
Flyer11
plz dnt blow me up if u see me lol.. ive lost 5 throax's due to pvp rats i can barely defend myself when they are in big ships lol
mate, you ARE doing something wrong - i made 1.5 million in about 30 minutes of mining last night. What i do find a 0.3 sector that has a dozen or so belts, fly there in a heavily armed frigate - or, better, a destroyer - and wipe out the rats, then go back and mine - i'm usually able to get 3 or 4 loads in before they reappear.
what timezone do you play in, maybe i can help show you how to be a little more effective (and i'm a n00b too, been here less than a month, but would be very happy to help you out)
|~~~~~~~~~~~~~| Hopey
|L.O.S.T. Foundation ~~~~| |
Rufus Roughneck
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Posted - 2005.09.16 17:15:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Flyer11
BUMP
another idea is.. like ccp offer if u pay u can transfer ur charecter and and change your charecter.. ccp could act as a bank if u say pay ú10 they will give u 500mil and say a limit of ú10 for 2 months or so
so say u pay them a fee and they tansfer it to ISK and then u cant pay again for a set amount of time.. sound good idea cos i would defently do it cos minning is driving me insane in my meduim barge and not making much progress, what i do mine goes straight back out in charges for corp hanger etc [im corp ceo]
its worth the idea guys, i would pay
Flyer11
Hmm, I would recommend you to cease this direction of argument/thought here tbh. There's alot of people in Eve (me and CCP inluded) that really despise people that buy/sell isk or ingame materials for real life cash.
You run the risk of making yourself a target for saying you support this crap tbh.
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Trey Azagthoth
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Posted - 2005.09.16 17:26:00 -
[23]
A good idea. The only major drawback which would stop it is that every average joe would have enough ISK to buy a BS. The BS suppliers would see that, and TOTALLY jack up the prices for BS. Basically, this bank idea would flood the market with ISK and prices for even the most basic of modules would skyrocket. 
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Morning Maniac
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Posted - 2005.09.16 17:37:00 -
[24]
A while ago I have been thinking about starting a player run bank in eve. I haven't been able to come up with any way around the trust factor. Ok, you can give me your apoc and I borrow you 50mil, pay me back with intrest and you get your apoc back. If you don't pay me in a month your apoc will be sold. That's the only construction I could come up with that would make sense from the bank's point of view. Obviously you would need to trust me not to sell your apoc right away. And yes, it's not a bank, it's a pawn shop.
Second, much more complicated and only for the true dedicated players. You could start a proper banking system with everything on it. You'd need to open bank accounts with these bank and earn intrest on them. Again trust is essential as others will need to accept your bank account's isk. So I buy your ship and you just transfer isk from your bank account to mine. This way the bank will create it's own isk. Very exploitable indeed. CCP would **** their pants if this ever happened.
MM
Channel "EVE University"
www.eve-university.cjb.net (ingame)
EVE University commercial |
Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.09.16 17:55:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 16/09/2005 17:58:58
Edited by: Rod Blaine on 16/09/2005 17:57:41
A pawnshop type thing would only work if you give people mroe isk then their security is worth.
Essentially, you'd need to shell out 150 mill for that apoc and hope to get paid back. Antyhing less and it makes no sense to take a loan with you since selling the apoc (which is easy and possible for everyone) would bring in just as much.
Now, for rarities it would work. If i got some uber officer item I dont want to lose yet want to convert to isk for a bit, pawning it would work yes since it would allow me first right to retrieve it.
edity: actually, its quite a nice idea to start one and see if it takes off. I could envision some people pawning their fation BS for a 300 million isk loan for a bit tbh. And stocks of tech2 goods that arent widely availabloe could be usable for such a scheme as well. Trust isnt an issue there either since you cold easily make back your loss. The only risk you run is that of a market crash that devalues the items you got. Only real problem is getting people to trust YOU instead of v.v.
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.09.16 19:06:00 -
[26]
This is a terrible idea. It keeps coming up and it remains bad.
People will use loans to buy ships they cant afford. Said ship will get blown up. Person will have no ship AND DEBT.
This is worse than having no ship and no ISK.
How dumb is that?
Linking loan amounts to sec status? No thanks. Some of the biggest arses I know are +5. They just happen to hug npc's in 0.0 - I know a lot of -10 people who are decent and honest. Arbitary judgements based on one criteria are silly.
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Callan Skiderlar
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Posted - 2005.09.16 19:34:00 -
[27]
You can't do this without having the risk that someone doesn't pay, and any way to try to force them to pay via game mechanics will not work for all of the reasons everyone has said. The idea should be, though, not to eliminate risk, but to make it a game within the game.
There should be a risk that the loan recipient defaults, just like in real life. If you're going to loan money to a 3-day-old alt, that is your (idiotic) choice.
I think the way this works is if you have the ability to have player-player loan contracts that use the accounts receivable mechanism that's dormant in game. Basically, I loan you 3M isk, and each week, you have a monthly minimum payment that reflects the interest rate we agreed on. If you don't pay, you are now flagged to me, and my corp can pod you (just you) at will until you pay.
I can also sell this contract to someone else for any price, while they still have the right to collect the full amount. Essentially, this allows people to run collection agencies. I loan to you for 3M, you don't pay, I sell to S******dly for 1M, they bust your kneecaps for three weeks until you pay the 3M or work out a payment plan.
The holder of the debt can revise down the interest rate, payment amount, or total debt at any time with the debtor's agreement, allowing them to reset the free-to-attack flag.
You could also set this up to support corp and alliance loans as well.
Sure, people can scam this, but there would be some consequence, and it is up to the loaners to figure out if the player has enough at risk with the character given the loan amount to decide to take the loan. If it goes bad, then there's a whole rather neat game element of hunting down debtors and crushing their feeble ships until they pay up. That or dodging your collectors if you're a deadbeat.
---
Lifeline Minmatar Dreadnaught sales thread:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=220327 |
Flyer11
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Posted - 2005.09.16 20:06:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Callan Skiderlar
You can't do this without having the risk that someone doesn't pay, and any way to try to force them to pay via game mechanics will not work for all of the reasons everyone has said. The idea should be, though, not to eliminate risk, but to make it a game within the game.
There should be a risk that the loan recipient defaults, just like in real life. If you're going to loan money to a 3-day-old alt, that is your (idiotic) choice.
I think the way this works is if you have the ability to have player-player loan contracts that use the accounts receivable mechanism that's dormant in game. Basically, I loan you 3M isk, and each week, you have a monthly minimum payment that reflects the interest rate we agreed on. If you don't pay, you are now flagged to me, and my corp can pod you (just you) at will until you pay.
I can also sell this contract to someone else for any price, while they still have the right to collect the full amount. Essentially, this allows people to run collection agencies. I loan to you for 3M, you don't pay, I sell to S******dly for 1M, they bust your kneecaps for three weeks until you pay the 3M or work out a payment plan.
The holder of the debt can revise down the interest rate, payment amount, or total debt at any time with the debtor's agreement, allowing them to reset the free-to-attack flag.
You could also set this up to support corp and alliance loans as well.
Sure, people can scam this, but there would be some consequence, and it is up to the loaners to figure out if the player has enough at risk with the character given the loan amount to decide to take the loan. If it goes bad, then there's a whole rather neat game element of hunting down debtors and crushing their feeble ships until they pay up. That or dodging your collectors if you're a deadbeat.
thats a good idea been able to hunt down the none payers.. and ccp could make it so the loan was only to that certain player and couldnt transfer it to another alt on their account.. and yea i agree players will have ships more than they could handle but thats not a bad idea ifu enjoy a easy pvp but my gunnery skills etc are more than what my current ship can handle [cruiser] and yea i admit it will prob make the game easier if u wish to buy isk but if spent wisely and not by knuckle heads who just want a big ship to go out and get themself a name for themself by podding others..maybe bad payers if they go near gates etc concord could pod them or anyone and claim a reward just as u can for pvp rats in low secs[bounty] i dunno its just a idea but for us honest players who want to excel in eve its a good idea..
and HOPEY ive eve mailed u about hooking up if u wish to mine together etc im currently based in allamotte.. and the same goes for anyone else whos a miner and wants to mine with someone else.. ill be willing to team up with anyone.. noob or player rat i dont care just dont pod me
fly safe everyone.. its only a idea remember
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Sergeant Spot
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Posted - 2005.09.16 20:38:00 -
[29]
All in all, a bad idea......
However....
If this was done, a character's "maximum" credit rating should be based on his skill points. You want to barrow serious isk? You better be a serious character. Alts need not apply.
But, as has been said, what happens if the player defaults?
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