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Ganking, Wardecs and High-sec Aggression

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
FWIFF0 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 32	Posted - 2013.04.11 05:43:00 - [31] - Quote Shut up forever.
DeadWeight Botox Bandits 0	Posted - 2013.04.11 05:48:00 - [32] - Quote I filled out your form. I also added in the comments section my contention that tier 3 battlecruisers made suicide attacks much cheaper to perform. Its time for CCP to admit its crimewatch system has failed. Haulers will line up with a station and grab the loot and enter warp almost simultaneously. Then they remain docked until the suspect status subsides. Tier 3 battlecruisers enjoy dps bonuses and 8 turret slots, something not available to many battleships. Their cost to damage output has completely changed the frequency of ganks. Its time for tier 3 battlecruisers to be removed from the game, and they need to revert to the older system where it was nearly impossible to grind your way back from a -10 sec status. If you get below minus 5 I think its become clear how you want to play the game and you shouldn't be allowed in high sec anymore. Especially with the safety features that prevent 'mistakes'
Powers Sa 606	Posted - 2013.04.11 05:48:00 - [33] - Quote FWIFF0 wrote: Shut up forever. Vote Nullsec for CSM8 Mynnna \|\| Kesper North \|\| Kaleb Rysode \|\| Malc00nis \|\| Artctura \|\| Unforgiven Storm
Amyclas Amatin The Phantom Regiment THE ROYAL NAVY 98	Posted - 2013.04.11 05:52:00 - [34] - Quote DeadWeight wrote: I filled out your form. I also added in the comments section my contention that tier 3 battlecruisers made suicide attacks much cheaper to perform. Its time for CCP to admit its crimewatch system has failed. Haulers will line up with a station and grab the loot and enter warp almost simultaneously. Then they remain docked until the suspect status subsides. Tier 3 battlecruisers enjoy dps bonuses and 8 turret slots, something not available to many battleships. Their cost to damage output has completely changed the frequency of ganks. Its time for tier 3 battlecruisers to be removed from the game, and they need to revert to the older system where it was nearly impossible to grind your way back from a -10 sec status. If you get below minus 5 I think its become clear how you want to play the game and you shouldn't be allowed in high sec anymore. Especially with the safety features that prevent 'mistakes' In pure cost to damage terms, catalysts and thrashers are more efficient than Taloses and Tornados. Upshipping helps if the number of characters available is a limitting factor. Everyone could help by sending them survey links to their gank victims. We need more carebear responses. Please help me with my survey on high-sec aggression: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1dLcM27c_qDyOIxFgE4Zan_T8j_eZDDeCUAEL4lwXGC8/viewform
Amyclas Amatin The Phantom Regiment THE ROYAL NAVY 98	Posted - 2013.04.11 05:54:00 - [35] - Quote Sixx Spades wrote: You're about to get a whole lot of data. "TheMittani says Hi!" uh... thanks, goons. Send out those survey links for me, will ya? Please help me with my survey on high-sec aggression: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1dLcM27c_qDyOIxFgE4Zan_T8j_eZDDeCUAEL4lwXGC8/viewform
thetwilitehour GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 186	Posted - 2013.04.11 05:56:00 - [36] - Quote You need to ask better survey questions. "How satisfied with current mechanics are you..." Think it through. Someone could be dissatisfied because they make suicide ganking too easy or too hard. Several of your survey questions are basically worthless because you phrased them very poorly.
Zulric The Praxis Initiative Gentlemen's Agreement 4	Posted - 2013.04.11 05:57:00 - [37] - Quote If you want to play a single player spaceships game, go play one.
Amyclas Amatin The Phantom Regiment THE ROYAL NAVY 98	Posted - 2013.04.11 05:58:00 - [38] - Quote thetwilitehour wrote: You need to ask better survey questions. "How satisfied with current mechanics are you..." Think it through. Someone could be dissatisfied because they make suicide ganking too easy or too hard. Several of your survey questions are basically worthless because you phrased them very poorly. I guess I could have split that one into two questions. Please help me with my survey on high-sec aggression: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1dLcM27c_qDyOIxFgE4Zan_T8j_eZDDeCUAEL4lwXGC8/viewform
Amyclas Amatin The Phantom Regiment THE ROYAL NAVY 98	Posted - 2013.04.11 06:00:00 - [39] - Quote Zulric wrote: If you want to play a single player spaceships game, go play one. For any bears that need a breather from all that ganking, I recommend Artemis Spaceship Bridge Simulator! Play it with your corpmates while waiting out your wardec! http://www.artemis.eochu.com/ Please help me with my survey on high-sec aggression: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1dLcM27c_qDyOIxFgE4Zan_T8j_eZDDeCUAEL4lwXGC8/viewform
Neuntausendeins Rens Nursing Home 0	Posted - 2013.04.11 06:32:00 - [40] - Quote Your question sheets are a mess, both of them. But I will go with the second one, just because you separated the suggestive, manipulative part from the real questions, so I can more easily ignore it. I also filled out your google form already, but I would like to take the chance and elaborate a little: 1. Who should be ganking and who should be ganked in High Sec? Whoever wants to gank somebody should be able to try at least and therefor nobody should be immune to suicide ganking. While it is a good thing that there are ways to avoid being ganked most of the time with a little bit of know how and common sense, nobody should ever be "untouchable" in eve. This would probably break a lot of things and take away from the sandbox, that is so unique to eve. 2. What does the public consider to be valid motives for the act of suicide ganking? I don't really know about the public, but for me that would be anything the ganker could come up with. Eve is a game where you can just go and shoot someone because you don't like his face, his playstyle, his ship or just because you feel like shooting some random guy at the perimeter gate, and that is a good thing. 3. Who should take part in War-Decs? Well, that's a weird question right there. Nobody should be "immune" to war decs, if that is what you are asking. Because if there was a way to gain immunity from war decs, people would exploit that to hell and back. 4. What motives, if any, are considered valid by the public for the practice of high-sec war-decs? Once again, I am not "the public", but I consider any motive "valid". You don't even need a motive at all. How do they say? Whatever drives your boat, man! 5. Should stronger corporations and alliances be allowed to harm weaker corporations and alliances in high-sec? Yes of course! Apart from disallowing this being a stupid idea, larger corps would just split up into smaller ones, if they wanted to declare war on someone. 6. Do New Players have a right to avoid player aggression in high-sec outside of rookie systems? Anyone has the right and to a degree the means to avoid player aggression. Should they gain immunity: Hell no. Instead CCP should make it clear to everyone, that New Eden is a harsh and cruel place, where PvP does in fact happen, if you want it or not. In fact, I would even like to see a tutorial part where newbies are asked to blow up other unsuspecting newbies. That would be hilarious, new players would know what they are getting into and no harm would be done, since noobships don't cost anything. 7. Considering question 6., should new corporations be allowed to avoid player aggression? Hell no. People would just remake their corporations every so often. Very stupid idea. 8. Should "training" and "newbie friendly" corps have special considerations made for them for avoiding player aggression? No. But I would really like to see the criteria that make a corp a "newbie friendly" or "training" corp. 9. Should we be encouraging or discouraging High-Sec Aggression? Like I said, especially newer players should get encouraged to try pvp or at least they should get prepared for it. An industrial- or business-oriented pilot can avoid stupid losses most of the time, but only if he actuall knows about PvP, war mechanics and suicide ganking. If you don't know what the ****, you will lose ships in hilarious ways. 10. Would the game be better or worse if there was more prevalence of high-sec aggression? I don't know, but does it matter? I like the amount of Pew Pew in High Sec as it is.

Cindare GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 23	Posted - 2013.04.11 06:40:00 - [41] - Quote Hi-sec statistics: Five standard deviations, Five dead Mackinaws.
Powers Sa 607	Posted - 2013.04.11 07:09:00 - [42] - Quote Amyclas Amatin wrote: Sixx Spades wrote: You're about to get a whole lot of data. "TheMittani says Hi!" uh... thanks, goons. Send out those survey links for me, will ya? no prob guy, an all-all broadcast got you a whole lot more data. Vote Nullsec for CSM8 Mynnna \|\| Kesper North \|\| Kaleb Rysode \|\| Malc00nis \|\| Artctura \|\| Unforgiven Storm
Wishdokkta CEO The Riot Formation Unclaimed. 29	Posted - 2013.04.11 14:40:00 - [43] - Quote :facepalm:
Amyclas Amatin The Phantom Regiment THE ROYAL NAVY 100	Posted - 2013.04.12 05:58:00 - [44] - Quote Updated the front page. Doesn't it look better now? No more guiding questions for your essays. But I'll still look at your long responses if you write them. Please help me with my survey on high-sec aggression: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1dLcM27c_qDyOIxFgE4Zan_T8j_eZDDeCUAEL4lwXGC8/viewform
Hien Morisato Imperial Combat Engineers Empire of Arcadia 3	Posted - 2013.04.13 14:07:00 - [45] - Quote 1. Who should be (suicide) ganking in high-sec? Honestly....anyone its EVE. 2. Who should be ganked in high-sec? Again this could be answered with anyone but it really depends on the ganker's choices and preferences. 3. Why should these people gank and be ganked high-sec? (especially when economic considerations are disregarded by the aggressors) Usually Economic considerations are disregarded by the aggressors because there aren't enough consequences when you gank. For example: you gank a hulk which is worth upwards of 200mil depending on its fit it could drop atleast twice the amount in loot of what your gank ship cost. Not to mention salvage. So you loose a cat worth maybe 2mil big deal you just killed a target worth more than 200mil. Again if the guy wasn't paying attention to what they were doing then by all means gank them eventually they will learn. However, the consequences are minimal when you think about how easy it is to get around them. So you have an alt that took you all of 10 hours to train in to a gank fit destroyer that now has horrible sec status and is killed by concord constantly, has a crazy bounty and tons of those miners that you ganked now are making iskies off you selling their kill rights on you. Oops deleted the character created a new one WAHOO GANKING SPREE!!!!. I bet a lot of inmates in today's correctional facilities wish they could do the same. But heh its a game gotta have fun some one right! Should wardecs exist outside of RvB and giant null-coalitions settling scores in trade hubs? Err last I checked they did already.....however the war dec system is flawed big time. You have one side saying that there should be a reason behind the decs based off a game mechanic of some kind (Usually carebears or players that don't want to participate in PVP) then you got the other side that doesn't want to pay a dime to dec someone else. I see both sides as both destroying and helping the game. In all honesty I would rather keep what we currently have but add on the ability to dec NPC factions........mmmmm.........carebears.....tastie......not to mention all the botters etc. etc. 4. considering that many people avoid pvp like the plague, and the prevalence of dec avoidance, lol well ask yourself do you avoid someone trying to kill you like the plague in real life? I understand its just a game but heh some people don't like to get killed in a game. Just like some people like to kill others in a game. Its that whole moral mental thing that shrinks have been studying for years and trying to explain yah-dah yah-dah. 5. considering that anyone with half a brain-stem would commit aggression when there are favourable chances of winning, yeah..... 6. noting the outrage over the infanticide of vulnerable corporations and alliances, okay... 7. Who should be deccing whom? Anyone could potentially dec anyone. This is where the whole war dec balancing comes into play. The game would be dec fest if there was no cost to decs or limit to the number of decs you could potentially have. In the extreme after maybe about a year or so, the only mining and traffic you would see in high sec would be people in NPC corps. Low would be as empty as it is today. There would be a couple of large Null sec corps that would either all be friendly with each other or all be at war with each other. I believe it would be very difficult for new players. 8. Why should they be in wardecs? In a structureless, sovless high-sec, does there even need to be a reason? See this is where ya lost me. The main factions have Sov in high-sec and they create something like the UN (concord) to police those systems. Hence why you need a Dec to attack with out concord involvement in empire space. 9. "Stronger Corporations and Alliances should not be able to harm weaker Corporations and Alliances in high-sec." I assume that no-one would even consider this notion in low or null-sec, but is this statement valid in high-sec? its a Bullshit statement by a carebear, the strong prey on the weak. Its how the world goes round. For those of you that don't understand this look up Nature Followed by Carnivore. 9b. If a null-sec entity launches a vicious propaganda campaign against another null-sec entity, noone really cares. But a high-sec entity launches a vicious military and psychological campaign against a weaker high-sec entity. And this is called, bullying, griefing, new-player and new-corp infanticide, etc. Don't think I've seen this one
Hien Morisato Imperial Combat Engineers Empire of Arcadia 3	Posted - 2013.04.13 14:07:00 - [46] - Quote second in the works
Hien Morisato Imperial Combat Engineers Empire of Arcadia 3	Posted - 2013.04.13 14:34:00 - [47] - Quote Third to come after breakfast.
Gimme more Cynos Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.04.13 19:38:00 - [48] - Quote I've participated in your little survey, altough I think such a survey is a complete waste of time. Eve is a sandbox, and everyone should have a place in it. If a carebear wants to avoid PvP, there is nothing wrong with it. If a priate wants to suicide someone, there is nothing wrong with it either. Anyone should be able to do what he wants. There needs to be room for everyone :)
Kaalika State War Academy Caldari State 1	Posted - 2013.04.23 11:36:00 - [49] - Quote Sabriz Adoudel wrote: Noone that uses the market is immune to market PVP (undercutting), noone that mines is immune to resource PVP (someone else beating you to the best asteroids/icefields), noone that undocks should be immune to ship v ship PVP. This. I do believe however that CCP is making these nerfs to ganking and wardecs in order to help new players. There's a lot of power differential between someone who can barely fit a frigate and someone who has everything maxed after 5 years, not to mention actual pvp experience. If you can't understand that new players being slightly coddled is a good thing for the game, never ever become a parent. You'll never understand why a 2-month-old baby shouldn't be working a fulltime job while going to university! Highsec needs to have high security and high consequences for belligerent actions. However anyone who stays in highsec beyond 1-2 years is admitting that they don't have what it takes to move on to low or null. I'm still very new to the game and I understand this. It's good that EVE has a learning cliff, however the frustration curve needs to be managed to be slightly less than the reward curve, for player retention. A friend of mine started the game, was told that faction warfare was a great way to learn pvp even if you're just 3 days old, and left the game a few days later because he can't even go through a gate by himself without his ship being blown up. He was extremely frustrated to not be able to do ANY activity in the game if his corp didn't have a fleet up, and have to leave the fleet without any reward because his ship was always among the first to go. Without a hauler alt it was a huge hassle to reship all the time, he'd take forever to put one together and it would be gone in seconds. It wasn't about the isk, it was simply being unable to undock and get a rewarding experience for himself in any way. His corp had to give him isk to replace his ships. He wasn't able to make any. He wasn't able to undock without knowing that at least 4 other corpies were there to roam. If he undocked alone he lost his ship before making any isk or even being able to shoot at the people who killed him, because they had the skills trained to shoot from far away. I was told that it would take 6 months to be equal to others in frigate skills. 6 months. He didn't want to be dependent on others for 6 months before being able to have a chance. Although that's not highsec wardecs it does demonstrate the new player experience in this game. Either stay in highsec where it's safer and run boring missions for very little isk, or get blown up repeatedly without having any fun because you're simply too new to do anything useful. I blame myself because I hadn't tried fw and had also been told it was a newbie friendly way to go. A nullsec corp tried to recruit him at a week old... but he'd been told fw was better for new players than null, and had enough isk rewards to replace your ships. He didn't want a carebear life in highsec so he just left the game.
Benteen Drone A.I. Servicing Inc. 11	Posted - 2013.06.09 09:55:00 - [50] - Quote "Warfare in high-sec, whether Concord sanctioned or not, involves the destruction of enemy assets, and the destruction of the enemy's will to fight. " Most of us in High are in High because we don't want to fight anyway.. so there's no will to fight to break. You null seccers and your "Lets all kill high seccers!!!" mentality..

Amyclas Amatin sleep Deprivation INC. LLC The Kadeshi 106	Posted - 2013.06.10 00:04:00 - [51] - Quote Benteen wrote: Most of us in High are in High because we don't want to fight anyway.. so there's no will to fight to break. You null seccers and your "Lets all kill high seccers!!!" mentality.. What do you do when the fight finds you? With expensive assets in high-sec, it becomes a very logical place for war and aggression, the mentality of the victim not withstanding. Please help me with my survey on high-sec aggression: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1dLcM27c_qDyOIxFgE4Zan_T8j_eZDDeCUAEL4lwXGC8/viewform
Tilly Delnero Licorne Ventures Ltd. 15	Posted - 2013.06.10 00:26:00 - [52] - Quote Amyclas Amatin wrote: What do you do when the fight finds you? With expensive assets in high-sec, it becomes a very logical place for war and aggression, the mentality of the victim not withstanding. Dock up and play the markets or switch to an alt until the deccers get bored? I think that what Benteen was pointing out is that a lot of people who are playing in highsec are trying to avoid PvP situations as it's just not their 'thing', and they won't be willing to indulge the PvPers at all no matter what. You can't break someone's willingness to fight if their first instinct is to avoid that conflict in the first place.
Benteen Drone A.I. Servicing Inc. 12	Posted - 2013.06.16 22:12:00 - [53] - Quote Tilly Delnero wrote: Amyclas Amatin wrote: What do you do when the fight finds you? With expensive assets in high-sec, it becomes a very logical place for war and aggression, the mentality of the victim not withstanding. Dock up and play the markets or switch to an alt until the deccers get bored? I think that what Benteen was pointing out is that a lot of people who are playing in highsec are trying to avoid PvP situations as it's just not their 'thing', and they won't be willing to indulge the PvPers at all no matter what. You can't break someone's willingness to fight if their first instinct is to avoid that conflict in the first place. Exactly... And as for expensive assets. I have very little and would usually just jump onto my alts anyway. Although occasionally I do like to head out into lowsec and nullsec for a "break" but it's rare.


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