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The Wizz117
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Posted - 2005.09.11 09:04:00 -
[1]
this topic is my conclusion from loads of other topics aboud the raven/missiles.
i think the raven should be de-nerfed becouse:
Yes, the missiles where over-powerd before the missile-nerf patch,but also the raven had alot of weaknes points to accomodade with that: -the slowest agility of them all. -not 8 but only 6 missile launcher hard points -missiles and shield tanking uses loads of cpu -its also the most slowest ship (mag prupolsoin) -it is worste BS @ mining( 4 turret hard points) -it has the worste sensor of em all. -no T2 module. -
and since the patch: the misiles got nerfed,they use even more CPU now. when im fitting my raven for lvl3 missions im using 1% of power grid and 100% of cpu. im not exegurating! i can make a screen of it if you wand. ofcourse the missiles deal no damage unless all the conditions are optimal. ( no,target pianters/webifiers do not work) neather does a crap load of skill training. -target painters are bad mkay? couse they use a med-slot(wich u need for shield tanking) and u neet 10 of em to be effective. ( if u deal 7 damage 25 more aint going to help)
and the last patch, they stealth nerfed the raven's ships bonus. ( the ship bonus now only works on cruise/torp) and the ship bonus aint that good to: 5% ROF- thats pretty usefull 10% to missile velicity - thats useless, my cruise and torp would gain more range. but my range olrady is 550KM + i dont WANT more range.
also with alot of skilz cruise missiles wil deal more damage then torps vs BS's and a torp vs anyting smaller then a bs wont deal any damage. and torps use way more m3 cargo cap. so torps the torps are pretty banned. also missiles use way to much m3 and missiles are more expensive. there still are no T2 damage mods/amplifiers etc.
The raven! worse @ mining worse @ 0.0 worse@pvp and since the new patch its not good @ missions eather!
and becouse the missiles are now worse then the turrets. i think the raven needs a de-nerf.
and then other people say: train up skilz change fitting, but that all simply does not work. also, i dont like drones couse when u warp in a dangerouse place, you want those small scramblers dead first. thats pretty hard to do with hammerhads since they kill em to slow/ or get killed themselve when u launch em to soon. no flaming please dont use caps, dont be offensive and use arguments for evryting
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P1rate Dave
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Posted - 2005.09.11 10:21:00 -
[2]
Edited by: P1rate Dave on 11/09/2005 10:21:44 LOL OMG GET A CLUE
really theres so much wrong with what you just said i dont have the time to correct you
edit: ok t2 ballistics yes we want them now and torps/cruise do take up too much room --------------------------- "I`m not your mama. Why do you crying to me then ?" - Evil Thug |
The Wizz117
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Posted - 2005.09.11 10:31:00 -
[3]
Originally by: P1rate Dave Edited by: P1rate Dave on 11/09/2005 10:21:44 LOL OMG GET A CLUE
really theres so much wrong with what you just said i dont have the time to correct you
edit: ok t2 ballistics yes we want them now and torps/cruise do take up too much room
im 100% sure there aint anyting wrong with wath i just said. if you have time to correct me plz do so couse i would like to see your opinion.
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aeti
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Posted - 2005.09.11 11:25:00 -
[4]
hint: go all out gank on the bs, jam the tacklers, use your range advantage
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The Wizz117
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Posted - 2005.09.11 11:39:00 -
[5]
Originally by: aeti hint: go all out gank on the bs, jam the tacklers, use your range advantage
how can i jam the tacklers?
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MacQueen
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Posted - 2005.09.11 11:40:00 -
[6]
well, just a suggestion about what to change for missile, as many people have said, missiles now made turret-like weapon. so, keep it on that way:
1. introduce ballistic computer and balistic enhancer to compensate with tracking computer and tracking enhancer for turret, which will reduce explosion radius and velocity for all missiles, including torpedos. ballistic control unit 2 should be out as well.
3. reduce heavy, cruise and torpedos volume down to 0.1, 0.2 and 0.3.
just some idea...
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2005.09.11 11:42:00 -
[7]
PVP is where it matters, and it is definitly the best ANTI BS ship out there.
2mil SP in missiles would pawn a 12mil gunnry pilot. Maybe not including the geddon as it shoots at u with EM and thats ur weakest point
The raven should get a nerf: Reasons, Torps can go >60km, so its not really a short range weapon, Fit tank in mids, Gank in lows = wayyy toooo uber perhaps change BCU to a mid slot item
the raven Pawns a blasterthron at ANY range, even if the blasterthron starts <10km which is about the range it can hit
the Raven Pawns the geddon if the geddon starts >20km, If the geddon lands at 15km optimal, then its VERY close, if the geddon pilot has 8-10mil in gunnry and t2 then he will win, under 5mil SP and teh raven pawns again
i dont fly mini ships so cant say anthing about them
Thing Currently out of balance with the raven A cap booster allows you to keep your shield booster on for over 120sec constantly DMG mod is in lows, while tank is in mids can do its dmg upto and more than 60km
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The Wizz117
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Posted - 2005.09.11 11:59:00 -
[8]
Edited by: The Wizz117 on 11/09/2005 12:01:53 Edited by: The Wizz117 on 11/09/2005 12:01:10
Originally by: Gronsak
Thing Currently out of balance with the raven A cap booster allows you to keep your shield booster on for over 120sec constantly on a apoc it runs infinitive, and a raven can not use good cap rechargers. only thing raven got is PDS couse you aint got room for cap rechars/and those other rechars on the lowslots effect the shield boosting negative. DMG mod is in lows, while tank is in mids the other 3 BS's have armor tanking, wich is on the low's ! so it would not be logic to change that... can do its dmg upto and more than 60km tough the damage wont be much, the DPS from a raven aint much, and also the raven needs to target his enemy first ( wich takes longer) and then the missiles need a long time to reach ther target
and how can u say the raven is out of balance when i typed all those negative facts above?!
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Vilserx
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Posted - 2005.09.11 12:16:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Gronsak
The raven should get a nerf: Reasons, Torps can go >60km, so its not really a short range weapon, Fit tank in mids, Gank in lows = wayyy toooo uber perhaps change BCU to a mid slot item
the raven Pawns a blasterthron at ANY range, even if the blasterthron starts <10km which is about the range it can hit
the Raven Pawns the geddon if the geddon starts >20km, If the geddon lands at 15km optimal, then its VERY close, if the geddon pilot has 8-10mil in gunnry and t2 then he will win, under 5mil SP and teh raven pawns again
Thing Currently out of balance with the raven A cap booster allows you to keep your shield booster on for over 120sec constantly DMG mod is in lows, while tank is in mids can do its dmg upto and more than 60km
Cap boosters are nigh-on impossible to use due to the fact that both they, and missiles take up loads of cargo space.
Damage mods are ALWAYS in lows. I don't get your point here. For Amarr, tank is in lows, supplementary mods (not damage mods) like painters are in mids. Also, you can supplement your tank in the mids.
Yes, we can do damage at 60km if our opponents are silly enough to stick around for the missiles to hit them. You get instant damage. And can hit over 60km.
There is no tank with a Raven if there's 5 BCUs in lows. The PDUs really make a difference.
It may or may not be underpowered (I think such items like T2 BCUs would bring it inline) but to say it's overpowered is absurd imo. ---------------------------
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Amrry McIce
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Posted - 2005.09.11 12:58:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Amrry McIce on 11/09/2005 13:01:46 Stop complaining about the raven, it's fine as it is. They should however release tech II bcu's, shield amps and missile damage, velocity etc implants. Perhaps torps should take less space in cargo also but except that Raven is an excellent BS. And CMs hit better then L turrets vs interceptors (unless it's really long ranges) so that is not imbalanced.
And about the Raven bonus's being changed so it only applies to BS weapons, wtf where you going to use light missiles on raven? |
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2005.09.11 13:39:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Vilserx
Originally by: Gronsak
The raven should get a nerf: Reasons, Torps can go >60km, so its not really a short range weapon, Fit tank in mids, Gank in lows = wayyy toooo uber perhaps change BCU to a mid slot item
the raven Pawns a blasterthron at ANY range, even if the blasterthron starts <10km which is about the range it can hit
the Raven Pawns the geddon if the geddon starts >20km, If the geddon lands at 15km optimal, then its VERY close, if the geddon pilot has 8-10mil in gunnry and t2 then he will win, under 5mil SP and teh raven pawns again
Thing Currently out of balance with the raven A cap booster allows you to keep your shield booster on for over 120sec constantly DMG mod is in lows, while tank is in mids can do its dmg upto and more than 60km
Cap boosters are nigh-on impossible to use due to the fact that both they, and missiles take up loads of cargo space.
Damage mods are ALWAYS in lows. I don't get your point here. For Amarr, tank is in lows, supplementary mods (not damage mods) like painters are in mids. Also, you can supplement your tank in the mids.
Yes, we can do damage at 60km if our opponents are silly enough to stick around for the missiles to hit them. You get instant damage. And can hit over 60km.
There is no tank with a Raven if there's 5 BCUs in lows. The PDUs really make a difference.
It may or may not be underpowered (I think such items like T2 BCUs would bring it inline) but to say it's overpowered is absurd imo.
it is very overpowered, and it is easy to fit 4 cap boosters into the booster itself and have 4 more in cargo with enough room for missiles
i have 2 accounts, one is hardcore missiles, other is hardcore guns, and i can tell you that teh raven is WAYYYYYYYY overpowered
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Amrry McIce
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Posted - 2005.09.11 13:44:00 -
[12]
I don't agree with it being overpowered but it's deffinetley not underpowered and it's not hard to get cap boosters in cargo etc. Just get the tech II stuff out and it will be fine. |
Vilserx
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Posted - 2005.09.11 14:13:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Amrry McIce Edited by: Amrry McIce on 11/09/2005 13:01:46 Stop complaining about the raven, it's fine as it is. They should however release tech II bcu's, shield amps and missile damage, velocity etc implants.
And about the Raven bonus's being changed so it only applies to BS weapons, wtf where you going to use light missiles on raven?
Agree with the first point. That, along with some tweaks to the current missile system (full damage for stationary objects for example) would bring the whole thing into balance.
Also, about the second point, a frequent response to 'Raven/missiles are underpowered' is 'fit assault launchers then' so yes, it does matter.
Gronsak: Saying 'it is overpowered because I say so' is not much of an argument. How much ammo can you get after using that cap booster? Even then, you may be able to inject cap but you won't be recharging much of your small shield due to the lack of PDUs. ---------------------------
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JoeSomebody
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Posted - 2005.09.12 01:50:00 -
[14]
raven is still overpowered, missles in general still suck, nothing have changed. ____ When flying by Concord Customs Commander's Dominix I distinctly heard him saying "... world domination..." |
sonofollo
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Posted - 2005.09.12 01:54:00 -
[15]
use a dmg mode and tracking module in low slot TP1 in mid slot and she works fine.
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DadyCool
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Posted - 2005.09.12 14:35:00 -
[16]
Originally by: sonofollo use a dmg mode and tracking module in low slot TP1 in mid slot and she works fine.
IM sorry but you have no clue what you talking about .... or how to fit a raven..... |
Nytemaster
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Posted - 2005.09.12 21:49:00 -
[17]
Redundant thread. Please clicky and lock it. --- Nytemaster Mega-Deth - Countdown Enabled |
The Wizz117
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Posted - 2005.09.13 06:45:00 -
[18]
i was just doing the 6th gate of angel extravaganza. after the 5th gate i was empty, i wend back to station to fid cruise misiles and i stacked my raven full with cruise missiles. and wend back all the way to the 6th gate now i had destroyed all the pirates after the 6th gate. but i wanted the concored thingy in the angel battle station so i start shooting it. after alot of time shooting it i run out of cruise missiles-not be able to destroy the angelbattlestation.
my cruise dont deal enough damage/use to much cargo. couse from what i heard from oter people they can destroy it. and those 6 gates take me alot of time.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.09.13 07:10:00 -
[19]
ppl saying a raven is good for pvp, well u might wonna get some experience ont he real battlefield.
a raven is only good for 1v1 and there are still better bses for that, an cheaper pones too.
in groups are still the ravens biggest weakness the time delay until the dmg arrives, int hat time a turret battlship has deliver 5-10k dmg alrdy, unless ur rlly close.
torps are nice agaisnt bses, but u cant fit bcus with sieges and a shieldtank, not even close..
so ur only choice is the cruise missile, which goes fairly fast, and the crusie launcher dont hav such an high cpu use, but they do a crap dmg compared to 1400t2`s or other t2 turrets.
the fact that u can shoot from 200 and more km, doesnt help u much there cause sniping with missiles is useless.
i say shortent he torps range, make em more effective against cruisers, but not uber. think my range with torps with bs5 is 110km
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The Wizz117
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Posted - 2005.09.13 15:50:00 -
[20]
i found somting new: chek the info of a battle ship: the total armor resitance is normal 140% the shield resistancetotal is 120% WHY is the restiance on shield less? just to iriate the raven again? come on... and also i noticed my targeting since today's patch is slower was that stealth-nerfed to? couse last patch they nerfed the raven special ship bonus toward missils without putting that in patch notes
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Rendill
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Posted - 2005.09.13 16:16:00 -
[21]
Raven with cruises now does damage to cruiser sized NPC targets a geddon could only dream of. And that's tested.
Please just let this argument die. Ravens are now balanced. End of. CEO |
RedClaws
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Posted - 2005.09.13 17:04:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Rendill Raven with cruises now does damage to cruiser sized NPC targets a geddon could only dream of. And that's tested.
Please just let this argument die. Ravens are now balanced. End of.
How can you put those 2 sentances in together : 1 clearly stating something is wrong and the other one saying thats its ok. So you must be flying a raven
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2005.09.13 18:26:00 -
[23]
corpm8s getting 1-2k shots on cruisers with their 1400t2s say somethin else..
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The Wizz117
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Posted - 2005.09.13 19:16:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists corpm8s getting 1-2k shots on cruisers with their 1400t2s say somethin else..
i could only dream of that ammounds of damage with my cruise missiles... alsoe the ROF of those turrets is better,they use fewer ammo/less cargo bay,can target faster, dont have a incredible slow ship etc..etc..etc....
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Rod Blaine
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Posted - 2005.09.14 11:06:00 -
[25]
Originally by: The Wizz117
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists corpm8s getting 1-2k shots on cruisers with their 1400t2s say somethin else..
i could only dream of that ammounds of damage with my cruise missiles... alsoe the ROF of those turrets is better,they use fewer ammo/less cargo bay,can target faster, dont have a incredible slow ship etc..etc..etc....
Wizz, you're way off with your arguments m8.
Cruise missiles are extremely good against cruisers now. All you need to do is adapt your setup to fit that role. Its not like anyone else does not have to.
The rof of 1400 II's is worse then that of your launchers btw, assuming equal skill level and tech2 launchers. Don't talk rubbish if you don't know your way about a ship. And those 1-2K shots assume a full damage setup and are extremely rare at that.
As to your original post. How can the argumetn that Ravens have just 6 launcher slots even come into your mind ffs ? How the hell do you figure that that means that the Raven therefore sucks ? It has 6 launchers slots yes, and with those 6 slots, it can do more dmaage then an apoc can do with it's 8 turrets, given the right circumstances and target.
You seriously need to learn more, train more and use a specialised ship for the aim it's been intended to be used.
btw, I wonder which smartbombs of yours have 8km range ? A standard one has 5km range you see. h, and all but about ZERO types of NPC frigates do NOT orbit within 8km.
See what I mean ? Your knowledge aboput this game is incredibly crappy, hence you shouldn't be making alot of random noise about stuff you simply dont comprehend, or dont want to. _______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues. |
The Wizz117
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Posted - 2005.09.14 15:24:00 -
[26]
Edited by: The Wizz117 on 14/09/2005 15:32:07 "All you need to do is adapt your setup to fit that role"
this is where i stoped reading. i tolled you i tried to adapt but it aint posible. i did more then 2000 missions with alot of setups and my missiles do not deal damage. im conectrating ALL my heavy missiles(and T2 target painter),my 2 T2 150MM rialguns and all my hammerhads on the same drone. yes, that way i can kill it but the 150's and hammerhads do the biggest job, the 6 heavy's are just for support.. also you said somting aboud smartboms, well i never mantioned anyting even close to smartboms, and btw there are smartboms with 9km range but those are very very rare. smartboms on a raven is no good any way.
all the turret users say the same... these topics are useles.. the people im trying to contact just dont reply couse or they are to lazy or totaly agree with ppl using turrets like above or in many many other treaths posting things wich are most of em being incorrect.
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pardux
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Posted - 2005.09.14 15:59:00 -
[27]
Originally by: The Wizz117 Edited by: The Wizz117 on 14/09/2005 15:32:07 "All you need to do is adapt your setup to fit that role"
this is where i stoped reading. i tolled you i tried to adapt but it aint posible. i did more then 2000 missions with alot of setups and my missiles do not deal damage. im conectrating ALL my heavy missiles(and T2 target painter),my 2 T2 150MM rialguns and all my hammerhads on the same drone. yes, that way i can kill it but the 150's and hammerhads do the biggest job, the 6 heavy's are just for support.. also you said somting aboud smartboms, well i never mantioned anyting even close to smartboms, and btw there are smartboms with 9km range but those are very very rare. smartboms on a raven is no good any way.
all the turret users say the same... these topics are useles.. the people im trying to contact just dont reply couse or they are to lazy or totaly agree with ppl using turrets like above or in many many other treaths posting things wich are most of em being incorrect.
yeah you just cant stop firing missiles while the smartbomb kills the tacklers...
and a raven is still a good npc hunting bs, o_o ~200km range for cruise missiles so you dont need a tank.
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The Wizz117
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Posted - 2005.09.14 16:06:00 -
[28]
smartboms are USELESS theyr range is 5KM there is not a singel frigate coming in that range. they all keep at 12 and very few keep at 8km. and i can not pay the smartbomb with 9km range or spend a few months skill training to get that range. also they use way to much cap. and 200km range in misions is 100% useless.
im gedding tired of all these nonsens arguments you guyz give...
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2005.09.14 17:24:00 -
[29]
threads like this make me ashamed to be a raven pilot.
we aren't all whiners who can't learn how to use our ships that have changed a bit, honest
still, i would make the damage vs sig and damage vs speed curves SLIGHTLY less steep, and add t2 BCUs and boost amps if i was a dev.
i think it would improve the system if the damage worked on relative velocity to the explosion, rather than total velocity (like transversal with missiles) and maybe make extreme low speed mean that even ships with a lower sig can take a fair bit of damage (like with turrets)
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The Wizz117
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Posted - 2005.09.14 17:32:00 -
[30]
i give up, i surender im training amarr battleship now and don't you dear nerfing it!
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