Gasp. . . me agreeing with Pieter Tullinen? What have the stars come to. . .

What's wrong with removing Intaki from the CEWPA area and allowing the local government to sign contracts with whoever the hell they feel like signing contracts with?

One wonders if the new shirt has altered your brain chemistry.

The situation in the warzone has changed significantly. With the possibility of reprisal attacks by rogue Caldari State factions like the Templis Drangonars, we must move to protect human life wherever possible. Unfortunately, from a utilitarian point of view, that means protecting the largest population centers in the area of the war.

The homeworld of Intaki Prime is the candidate in this case.

Somehow i doubt that simply removing Intaki from the CEWPA will stop the Templis Dragonaurs if they wanted to attack the system.

They do tend to be pretty enthusiastic about killing innocent civilians, to be sure.

Removing Intaki from the CEWPA would enable immediate re-deployment of Mordus Legion and Ishukone security forces as per their original contract with the Intaki assembly. The added protection would be a deterent to non-state actors like the Templis Drangonars paramilitary group.

Your also asking something that many others have been asking of the senate for years now. ILF, I-RED and a few other acronyms have been pleading for the same thing for years now and it has always fallen on deaf ears. Why should the Senate listen now?

Why is this homeworld and it's system special?

Seriously what makes Intaki so special?

Removing Intaki from the CEWPA would enable immediate re-deployment of Mordus Legion and Ishukone security forces as per their original contract with the Intaki assembly. The added protection would be a deterent to non-state actors like the Templis Drangonars paramilitary group.

by removing the solar system from CEWPA it should permanently change sovereignty to Caldari State.

Disregarding of current occupation, this system belongs to Ishukone.

You do yourself a (further) diservice Kim-haani. Intaki belongs to the Intaki, Ishukone merely hold development rights. The two are nothing alike.

You do yourself a (further) diservice Kim-haani. Intaki belongs to the Intaki, Ishukone merely hold development rights. The two are nothing alike.

These resources belong to our nation.

Removing Intaki from the CEWPA is totally interesting idea, and I fully support it, but on one condition: by removing the solar system from CEWPA it should permanently change sovereignty to Caldari State.

Disregarding of current occupation, this system belongs to Ishukone.

Do the cluster a favour and biomass yourself.

You know... you should probably leave the talking to Malcolm Khross and Pieter Tuulinen, they are far more capable.
That is part of how your meritocracy works, right... those who are best at a task are the ones who should perform that task

She is less interested...

Caldari hope that by doing this the system will come under control of Ishukone; Gallente think that by doing this they'll be able to put their reins around the Intaki people without any outside interference or consequences.

I'm sure that you understand at least that much, don't you?

I do neither service nor diservice to myself. I serve the State.
Ishukone did invest resources into Intaki development, and I have to protect assets of the State, even if Ishukone neglects them. These resources belong to our nation. If Ishukone doesn't need them, we still do, and the State could use them for military effort.

While I appreciate your sentiment; Kyiokkinen-haani is no less capable of communicating her thoughts clearly than myself or Tuulinen-haan.

She is less interested in being diplomatic and possessing a silver tongue than either of us, however.

If I may notice, there's a rather entertaining fallacy in most people's ideas about removing Intaki from the CEWPA, which is both sides being sure this will somehow benefit them;

Caldari hope that by doing this the system will come under control of Ishukone; Gallente think that by doing this they'll be able to put their reins around the Intaki people without any outside interference or consequences.

I'd advise the Intaki people to think outside of the box either of this sides are trying to force onto you and form a third solution that is beneficial to your own good.

The Intaki people are not of the State. The Intaki system is the property of the Intaki people

If you're claiming that it should be given to the Ishukone corporation due to the recent occupation of the space surrounding it and the illegal auction of the planetary bodies in the system to State corporations, then you are also claiming, by exactly the same merit, that all of Luminaire should be controlled by the Federation.

Your hypocrisy is showing again kim.
Do the cluster a favour and biomass yourself.

The Federation invested 200 years of resources into Caldari Prime's development.

Hypocrite.

Another gallentean barking? You see hypocrisy too?

I don't care how and what gallenteans invested into our homeworld. This is not from this discussion. I have no desire to learn what petty deeds frogs have committed, because I don't follow their interests. I am fighting for interests of the State and State alone. I don't care if gallenteans have any claims to Intaki or Caldari Prime. Talk times are over.

Now we talk with guns. And we fight for what is ours. Easy like that.

2. It never was property of Intaki people. It was property of the Federation, but now we took it, and Ishukone developed it. Ishukone wasted resources that we could have used for war with Federation instead, and the State needs dividends now.

Your State can look for its blood money elsewhere.

The State isn't looking for blood money, Vero. These are the words expressed by a singular pilot.

Remember how not too long ago you were telling me not to judge your entire alliance based on the actions of a few of your pilots?

"It's different when we do it to when you do it."

That's hypocrisy Kim.

Intaki is not the State's to claim, it is the sovereign state of the Intaki people and as members of the Federation is under their protection.

You cannot use an argument in one scenario and then claim it irrelevant (when significantly stronger) elsewhere. Unfortunately for you, talk times are only beginning, your violent gung-ho and bloodshed means of conflict resolution through conflict escalation are coming to an end.

You are a relic Kim, take your time in the past and accept the future has no need for you.

Your State can look for its blood money elsewhere.

When I say that what we do is different than what you do, it is not hypocrisy. It is Caldari superiority. Because everything Caldari do, is better than what you do. Simply because our nation is superior to your nation.

I think you didn't understand, what I was proposing. I do not want to "claim" Intaki. I want to take it for use by the State. With guns or diplomacy, I do not care. Anything goes. There are interests of the State and we will be fighting for it.

What "argument" are you talking about? Do you think I came here to argue?

Talking about relics, New Age is coming. New Age, when everyone will accept Caldari Superiority. And if you don't, it is you who is relic, and future will have no place for you.

On second thought, let's not go to Intaki. Tis a silly place.

Kim.

The Intaki system is, was and will always be the property of the Intaki people.

You say that you don't care about the ownership of the Intaki system, yet the entire debate between us began with you saying that the Intaki system should permanently change sovereignty to the Caldari state. Which is it? you either do want the system or you don't.

You also say that due to the time ishukone have spent in the system that the Intaki have no claim to their homeworld.
so, when you ask where I see hypocrisy, I can only answer by pointing out the rhetoric you have repeated ad nauseum regarding Caldari Prime.

You are also mistaken about me being Gallentean. Intaki is my home, it's people are my kin. The Caldari have no right to claim the system.

So yes. I can, will and have analyzed your words, they have been found lacking in substance and a link to any form of reality.
You should get that looked at.

These are your words. I prefer to believe tactical maps instead. They say: "Occupation: Gallente Federation". I don't see "Intaki people". And I don't see "Intaki people" fighting for it either. If they don't fight for it, they don't need it.

Diana,

My advice to you is that you should generally avoid speaking of things of which you have no idea. It makes you sound ignorant.

You and calamulav like you have a great deal to learn

I am speaking about what I know and what I work with: tactical maps.
And what the heck are you speaking about, I have no freaking idea.

And what the heck are you speaking about, I have no freaking idea.

Kim.
Learn to read.
That is all.

Fascinating that you miss the true point of this - which is that we'd prefer the Intaki people not suffer under a never-ending cycle of occupation and abandonment by BOTH governments or the crushing effects of a war that is not of their making and which they cannot ever bring a resolution to.

Put short, we'd like the bombing and the killing to stop Mr Caine. That is our agenda here.

Well, we've done our part.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=224254&find=unread

This is an honorable gesture, however, we request the participation of the primary alliances and paramilitary organizations of the Caldari Militia to reciprocate our initiative. We are still awaiting word from those of Bloody Ronin Syndicate, for example.

Preventing their, what, six pilots from contesting complexes in enemy systems five days in the future, vs. Our offer to keep five hundred members from retaking starsystems currently vulnerable to attack? That's like comparing a furrier to a slaver hound... Cosmopolitical compromise and dialogue can only bear fruit if the other party engages on equal terms.

We await that moment yet. And the continuing delay of the primary Caldari militia military forces to acknowledge our offer makes me think they are refusing any possibility of deescalation.

I hope I am proven wrong.

You, Kim, are irrelevant.

What a disappointing result. For a moment I thought you might be reaching out a hand over the aisle. Not only was your initiative little more than noise, but you proved incapable of actually enforcing it amongst your alliance.

Despite that, we offered something of substantiative value and you do nothing more than spit in our faces.

If the other alliances in the State Protectorate won't take you seriously, I hope you won't wrack your brain for the reason why? Mind you - you do look quite a bit like a Furrier.

Commander Soter and I both expressed our praise for your effort. As soon as we did, Captain Khross took it upon himself to interject his flawed comparison.

Effective 00:00 Hours, YC113.04.06 [GMVA] Villore Accords is declaring an Alliance wide moratorium on offensive operations targeting System Sovereignty Infrastructure of Caldari held star systems in recognized Caldari regions of Black Rise and The Citadel.

To be clear: GMVA will not consider itself under obligation to Cease Fire in any theater of war. Offensive operations targeting Caldari Military Installations will continue, and any Caldari held star systems in recognized Gallente regions of Placid, Essence, or Verge Vendor will continue to be targets for liberation. We will continue to be vigilant in defending the liberty and livelihood of the many Gallente, Intaki and other Federation Citizens living throughout the warzone.

1. We formally recognise Federal sovereignty in the Regions of Placid, Verge Vendor and Essence that are currently included in the CEWPA conflict zone.

2. We formally recognise Federal sovereignty in the Intaki system - until such time as the Intaki people indicate they wish to pursue independence as a result of free and fair elections.

3. We formally undertake to pursue no territorial gains in systems where we have recognised Federal Sovereignty. This includes the attack and capture of Federal Military Complexes, for the purposes of system capture or for financial remuneration.

4. We reiterate our commitment to the rules of war regarding the rescue of enemy combatant ship crews from life pods after fleet battles as soon as is practicably possible. Moreover we will move to repatriate recovered FDU crewmembers, not guilty of crimes, without exchange to any FDU alliance or organisation that signs a reciprocal agreement.

5. We formally commit to maintain State sovereignty through territorial integrity operations along the FNNE axis (Fliet, Nagamanen, Nennamaila, Eha) and will maintain such against FDU and TLF Aggression.

6. So long as the war between the Caldari State and the Gallente Federation continues, we reserve the right to carry out unrestricted warfare on enemy flagged ships in ANY part of space at ANY time.

7. Pursuant to Caldari State, State Protectorate and Kaalakiota Corporate security guidelines, we reserve the right to attack any neutral flagged ship encountered within a Federal or State military complex or in the vicinity of the acceleration gate leading thereto.

8. Pursuant to Caldari State, State Protectorate and Kaalakiota Corporate security guidelines, we reserve the right to preemptive defensive actions on any ship, whatsoever its affiliation, which a Pyre Falcon fleet commander feels represents a clear and present danger to Pyre Falcon or Allied assets and personnel.

Effects:

• Will not engage infrastructure hubs to convert system sovereignty (though an addendum was added stating that GMVA cannot be held accountable for the actions of individual pilots because it doesn't have the means necessary to enforce its own directives on its members).
• Will not surrender currently occupied systems
• Will continue to engage military assets and complexes
• Will continue to recapture State held territory in Placid, Essence and Verge Vendor
• Makes no effort to recognize the sovereignty of the State in The Citadel and Black Rise

Effects:

• Formal recognition and declaration of Federal sovereignty in the regions of Placid, Verge Vendor and Essence
• Recognition of sovereignty by the Intaki people over the Intaki system
• Formal withdraw from attacking military complexes in Placid, Verge Vendor and Essence
• Commitment to focusing on recapturing territory in Black Rise and The Citadel currently occupied by the Federation
• Will engage military vessels

Do I need to spell out the differences even more clearly or can you find them for yourself now?