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Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
320
   |
Posted - 2013.04.07 23:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ban more than 1 ship cap-transferring.
You banned more than 1 logi ship long ago, and more than 1 ASB so they couldn't be circle-jerk cap fed once out of charges.
Being forced to bring low dps, poor damage projection, slow neuting ships backed by terrible ECM mechanics or OP damps isn't fun, they aren't going to work against most simply-average setups, but are utterly required to break these cap-fed circle-jerks.
You can't seriously want a repeat of a team that turtled until they only had to win 1/3 matches before they dared to try something else.
And **** ecm, I had an ECCM proteus jammed by Vexors and Myrms ffs. With eccm implants also not allowed, I'm wondering what even happened to the proposed ECM change that these stupid mandatory racial ECCM skills were to tide us over for. |
Oxente
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
8
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 00:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kiss the ring. |
Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
321
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 00:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Lick mine. And get back to the topic of balance in the tourne setting.
Seriously http://i.imgur.com/g1m7UDG.jpg |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
1439
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 00:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm not sure what the problem is, you countered it, it sounds like you're mad, you want cap transfering, and ECM and ECCM removed and all kinds of other things.
Way to lose like a brat. I guess the rest of your team had a good fight and for you this very fun tournament was somehow traumatic.
Maybe next month bro, maybe next month.
EDIT: And I don't get whats go you so mad at that screen shot? Our logi pilot is better at multi tasking, nerf multi tasking? |
JEFFRAIDER
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
135
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 00:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
ARE YOU MAD ***** |
Brian Levine
Sniggwaffe
YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
0
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Posted - 2013.04.08 00:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r42aBi_7yg4
(Drops Mic)
GOOD FIGHTS TO YOUR BROS WHO FLEW. They actually didnt cry on the forums after they lose. It was good tourney and you just look really foolish and bratty with ur posting. |
Bacchanalian
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
186
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 01:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Have to say, seeing that Proteus fit is damned impressive. Jaw on the floor. I thought nanoing a dual TD curse around a hairball fight took micro, but that's child's play next to that Proteus micro. Good stuff guys.
As for remote cap xfer, I actually did bring up the notion of limiting it somehow. The cap chain circle jerk is extremely strong, and while counterable has a very limited spectrum of counters, all of which do very poorly against more popular setups. It's something to consider to be sure, but I'm very torn on it and I think I'm probably a lone voice on the SCL staff talking about it.
TL;DR, don't get your hopes up, but know that at least one of us sees it as a VERY powerful with limited counterability and something worth looking at a bit harder. |
Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
321
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 01:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
My issue isn't with PL, they found the OP option and went with it every time they needed to. My issue is the nature of that option and whether it's any fun to fly, fight against if you aren't certain to face it, or watch.
Consider why only 1 ship is allowed to RR. Why only 1 ASB was allowed. |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
1441
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 02:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Daneel Trevize wrote:My issue isn't with PL, they found the OP option and went with it every time they needed to. .
You don't get it.
It was more like we put out the Golem tinker, and you showed zero ability to deal with the threat.
We altered it a bit and threw a variation of it at you and you couldn't deal with that either, sentry drones being key, and to top it all off they dealt with frigates ok.
Your inability to deal with it meant that we arrogantly assumed that you couldn't deal with it a 3rd time but you did, but was that a fluke or a thing, would you steal our set up and run it or did you have something else?
So you saw the sleip team since that was a mulligan match, to give us an idea of what else you might have up your sleeve (we debated throwing it directly at you again but we figured we'd give you a breather first) and on the final match we saw the ban list and left you an obvious hole to fill with gallente ships and loaded up on gallent jammers.
You own reactions dictated what we'd bring. You didn't warrant any of the other set ups because statistically you fared poorly against the tinker set up, we were likely able to field that and save most of our trick bag for a possible CCP tournament in 2 months.
You guys fought hard as hell, the matches we won were closer than you'll ever know (like the Sin match) but we walked you into where we wanted you to be, and we beat you with the first hard set frame work we showed you., the tinker.
Incidentally if you think flying those things are easy you should give it a shot.
So we can show you all the really good counters to it.
|
Admiral Goberius
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 10:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
people thinking turtle setups are cheap should have put in the effort to come up with their own v0v
the only good reason to limit turtle setups somehow is the fact a turtle mirror might come down to whoever gets off a single lucky jam and blap a frig before time runs out
maybe make it so if no ship dies within the first 4 minutes, the ship with reps fitted is destroyed for both teams, could also help breaking stalemates between two kiting setups
this might encourage ASB or AAR teams to just hide for 4 minutes waiting for logis to be deleted, then charge in - still might do for interesting meta; much better than limiting cap xfers might as well force everyone to fly rush/kite variations then
|
Gallinae
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 13:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
nomad plz. |
leetcheese
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
14
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 13:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
BAN EVERYTHING I DONT LIKE BAWWWW |
Noisrevbus
420
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 13:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
Daneel Trevize wrote:Ban more than 1 ship cap-transferring.
And **** ecm, I had an ECCM proteus jammed by Vexors and Myrms ffs. With eccm implants also not allowed, I'm wondering what even happened to the proposed ECM change that these stupid mandatory racial ECCM skills were to tide us over for.
I'd like to congratulate you for managing to whine about both offensive and defensive projected effects in the same post.
"They had remotes, but since we're too 'honourable' to counter it with ECM... both should be banned". |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
191
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 13:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
can we also get a ban on other teams banning ships I want to field :( |
Reza Najafi
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
9
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 13:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Moar tears. |
Bacchanalian
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
186
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Daneel Trevize wrote:My issue isn't with PL, they found the OP option and went with it every time they needed to. . You don't get it. It was more like we put out the Golem tinker, and you showed zero ability to deal with the threat. We altered it a bit and threw a variation of it at you and you couldn't deal with that either, sentry drones being key, and to top it all off they dealt with frigates ok. Your inability to deal with it meant that we arrogantly assumed that you couldn't deal with it a 3rd time but you did, but was that a fluke or a thing, would you steal our set up and run it or did you have something else? So you saw the sleip team since that was a mulligan match, to give us an idea of what else you might have up your sleeve (we debated throwing it directly at you again but we figured we'd give you a breather first) and on the final match we saw the ban list and left you an obvious hole to fill with gallente ships and loaded up on gallent jammers. You own reactions dictated what we'd bring. You didn't warrant any of the other set ups because statistically you fared poorly against the tinker set up, we were likely able to field that and save most of our trick bag for a possible CCP tournament in 2 months. You guys fought hard as hell, the matches we won were closer than you'll ever know (like the Sin match) but we walked you into where we wanted you to be, and we beat you with the first hard set frame work we showed you., the tinker. Incidentally if you think flying those things are easy you should give it a shot. So we can show you all the really good counters to it.
Unfortunate for it to come in the form of a turd-chucking thread, but that's awesome insight into your team's strategies and really appreciated. I enjoyed reading it and I'm sure many who watched will too.
Gobbins hits the nail on the concern I have. It's not JUST the *vsTurtle matchups that I'm concerned about. It's the Turtle vs Turtle that could be utterly disastrous. As it was we had at match or two day 1 that I seem to recall ended with one or two frigate kills being the difference, and it's hard to make that compelling viewing. At the end of the day, this is for the viewers as much as the competitors, so we want to ensure that we make it entertaining to watch as well as fly in.
We have plenty of time before the next one and a lot of things to look at and discuss. I'll float this thread (since both sides make good cases) and see what others think. |
Admiral Goberius
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
8
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
The no-logi AT (AT6) was one of the best. Maybe you could try having one no-logi SCL and see what its like. |
Bacchanalian
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
189
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 18:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Admiral Goberius wrote:The no-logi AT (AT6) was one of the best. Maybe you could try having one no-logi SCL and see what its like.
It is the beauty of this format--we run often enough that we can try radical concepts without lasting repercussions. Certainly something to think about.
The other issue we have to keep in mind is creating more work for Fozzie. The tool he uses to check fits/implants is based on the NEO tool, and hasn't been updated since, so the filters apply NEO rules. He has to manually override anything that violates those rules AFAIK, and he'll have to manually scan fits for modules that we ban that weren't banned in the NEO. As it is you can see on our broadcast UI, the points values are wrong because of this. We're working on a solution at least for the visuals on the UI, but fixing the tool is out of our (and Fozzie's) hands. Ergo we have to consider what sort of workload any rule changes might create.
In any case, no logi sounds interesting. We may have to accompany that with some other changes to keep the meta interesting, but it's something I'll bring up.
Feel free to post ideas guys--we have a few days of regrouping as a staff before we sit down to discuss rule changes and the like, and we ARE active here and watch these threads, so your ideas and thoughts will get into our discussions if they're good ones. |
Daneel Trevize
Give my 11percent back
322
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 18:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
Forgive me but I won't be super prompt at responding to this or giving that feedback today, kinda burnt out right now. |
Bacchanalian
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
191
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 18:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
No worries. I started another thread for it anyway. Take your time. |
Dengen Krastinov
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
4
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 22:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
bwahahaha |
Elise Randolph
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
1013
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 05:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
Obvi losing is not fun, we should just make the rules so everyone that enters wins
~ |
Walter Stine
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
145
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 05:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
The OP is just butt sour. |
Dukrat
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.09 20:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
Really... The 2BS 1T3 Logi setup isn't as hard to beat as you are making it out. You don't actually have to bring a crazy setup that would do poorly against other setups. You can pretty much tweak any high DPS team such that you can beat it. For my respect to PL I won't outlay the exact changes you need to make. But I will say that I was practically screaming at my screen for you do a few things to have won those matches. No offense, PL, I love you guys, but it would have looked better for TEST if you had lost.
Furthermore, dual ASB are also banned because because you can intereload them and have ASB through pretty much the whole match without having to sacrifice highs.
And I don't know about the rest of you but I really enjoyed the double turtle match - winning on frigate points is a very challenging thing to do that shows great mastery of a comp and the game. You can't tell me that people watch MOBAs cause they are fun to watch - they watch them to marvel at the skill of the players. |
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