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Ishtar vs. anyotherHAC. How does 'anyotherHAC' take these things down?

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HankMurphy	Posted - 2005.09.12 16:36:00 - [1] wow. I'm no newb, but i'm no God of Space either. I have been able to handle ANYTHING eve has thrown at me, pvp or pve alike. My boggle right now is, what is the most effective way of taking down an Ishtar with another HAC? Minmatar HAC pilot myself (use both). Would love to hear ideas, true stories, ship setups blah blah blah.... Looking for 1v1 scenarios only. All I've come up w/ myself is close range Vaga w/ NOS and Smartbomb. Haven't tested it yet. I think I will most likely get out NOS'd, not to mention my ignorance involving the Tech II drones, will the SB even hit them? Thanks All!! *"Weren't you paying attention? Nintendos pass through anything." -Col. Jack Oneill*
EB Xile	Posted - 2005.09.12 16:46:00 - [2] I fly the ishtar, and a zealot at 20-30km starting off is always bad news. any ship that is ranged that can attack from 15km and stay away from web range/nosf range. The cerebrus has been pleasantly surprising to me lately. with the proper skills cerebrus is REALLY good against the ishtar. most of it is skill, and staying at a decent range. _______________________________________________ Don't look at me like that, you knew I was posion when you picked me up!
dalman	Posted - 2005.09.12 16:58:00 - [3] Never flown HACs... But a Cerberus with a 15km webbifier, killing off the drones first? Drink up, shoot in. Let the beating begin. Distributor of pain. Your loss becomes my gain...
Moridan	Posted - 2005.09.12 17:13:00 - [4] If you can neutralize its drones, an ishtar will then be mostly neutralized. as a minny pilot, you have the luck of not needing cap for your guns, so if you can remove the threat of drones, you can get inside and blast em away. "Speak quietly and carry a big torpedo."
Soros	Posted - 2005.09.12 17:13:00 - [5] Originally by: dalman Never flown HACs... But a Cerberus with a 15km webbifier, killing off the drones first? Any hac with a 15k webber then..... -= Soros =- BoB
HankMurphy	Posted - 2005.09.12 17:19:00 - [6] Obviously, any approach to defeating these things must first involve how to best deal w/ the Ishtars drones and NOS (since most pilots use two NOS). Staying out of range of said Drones and NOS is out of the question in a 1v1 pvp duel. All the Ishtar is gonna do is warp out. Along that line of thought, one has to expect that target will be cruisin w/ a WCS (at least one) and prepare accordingly. So.... that brings us in even closer if we wanna keep our prey from leaving the party. *"Weren't you paying attention? Nintendos pass through anything." -Col. Jack Oneill*
Rufus Roughneck	Posted - 2005.09.12 17:42:00 - [7] Smartbomb and beams on a sac ?
Denrace	Posted - 2005.09.12 18:12:00 - [8] Sacrilege will own one at any range. Quite easily. Been tested by me thoroughly. HIGH: 4x Med Smartbomb 2x Heavy launchers MED: 2x Webber, Scrambler, Cap Injector LOWS: 1600mm plate, med rep II, 3 50% hardeners Can tank an Ishtar + drones all day long without breaking a sweat. Smartbombs kill the drones easy and the heavy missiles eat the ishtar. Cap isnt a problem either. Even if the Ishy nosses you, your injector keeps your cap up. This Bombrilege setup kills most HACs quite easily to be honest. Its tested, so dont say it cant be done. Faction gear is a bonus. Especially Thons Injectors and Corpum Med Reppers. Custom Sigs Made! Gallery Link: http://photobucket.com/albums/b4/Denrace/
Jokastis	Posted - 2005.09.12 18:22:00 - [9] I believe that you tested that setup with the 4 smart bombs and 2 heavy launchers. But those all atleast have a 10 second rof, and won't do that much damage unless you absolutely know the lowest resist of the ishtar. The best it would be is a draw. Sac would kill all the drones with smart bombs for sure. Ishtar would Nos and repair against that weak of an offensive from the Sac. But once that Sac runs out of cap injectors, the ishtar could slowly shoot it to death with whatever guns it had fitted whilst still nosing it. the second poster was right as far as I could tell. Just stay and range, and you can kill the ishtar before the drones run through your tank, ( if you have a decent tank ) But then again most ishtar pilots fit some type of jamming or dampening system, so it is always an interesting ordeal when flying against an ishtar pilot.
Righteous Fury	Posted - 2005.09.12 18:46:00 - [10] Originally by: Denrace Sacrilege will own one at any range. Quite easily. Been tested by me thoroughly. HIGH: 4x Med Smartbomb 2x Heavy launchers MED: 2x Webber, Scrambler, Cap Injector LOWS: 1600mm plate, med rep II, 3 50% hardeners Can tank an Ishtar + drones all day long without breaking a sweat. Smartbombs kill the drones easy and the heavy missiles eat the ishtar. Cap isnt a problem either. Even if the Ishy nosses you, your injector keeps your cap up. This Bombrilege setup kills most HACs quite easily to be honest. Its tested, so dont say it cant be done. Faction gear is a bonus. Especially Thons Injectors and Corpum Med Reppers. Wrong. You'll be able to effectively neutralize an Ishtar's offensive capability, but there are two fundamental problems with your setup. First of all, most Ishtar's carry Medium Nos/Neut. Even if you destroy the Ishtar's drones (and he's smart enough not to deploy his reserves just yet), any reasonably setup Ishtar will just tank the pathetic damage of heavy missiles and your bombs by stealing your cap and using it to fuel himself. Cap injectors you say? In a stalemate, all the Ishtar has to do is a) call in friends or b) wait until you run out of charges. Once you're out of cap from the smartbombs and repping, the Ishtar will deploy his reserve drone set and eat you. My overall point is that Sacrelige's and Ishtars are evenly matched. Although Ishtar's have about 10x the firepower, the Sacrilege's tanking ability cancels it out. Sacrilege's have pathetic damage output, and the reverse is true. Unless you're looking for a long fight, my suggestion is to make sure you bring backup when engaging an Ishtar with a Sacrilege.
HippoKing	Posted - 2005.09.12 18:59:00 - [11] Edited by: HippoKing on 12/09/2005 18:58:55 Originally by: Denrace Sacrilege will own one at any range. Quite easily. Been tested by me thoroughly. HIGH: 4x Med Smartbomb 2x Heavy launchers MED: 2x Webber, Scrambler, Cap Injector LOWS: 1600mm plate, med rep II, 3 50% hardeners Can tank an Ishtar + drones all day long without breaking a sweat. Smartbombs kill the drones easy and the heavy missiles eat the ishtar. Cap isnt a problem either. Even if the Ishy nosses you, your injector keeps your cap up. This Bombrilege setup kills most HACs quite easily to be honest. Its tested, so dont say it cant be done. Faction gear is a bonus. Especially Thons Injectors and Corpum Med Reppers. you are kidding? downtime will come before those 2 launchers break a vamptar's tank
siim	Posted - 2005.09.12 19:34:00 - [12] Originally by: Denrace Sacrilege will own one at any range. Quite easily. Been tested by me thoroughly. HIGH: 4x Med Smartbomb 2x Heavy launchers MED: 2x Webber, Scrambler, Cap Injector LOWS: 1600mm plate, med rep II, 3 50% hardeners Can tank an Ishtar + drones all day long without breaking a sweat. Smartbombs kill the drones easy and the heavy missiles eat the ishtar. Cap isnt a problem either. Even if the Ishy nosses you, your injector keeps your cap up. This Bombrilege setup kills most HACs quite easily to be honest. Its tested, so dont say it cant be done. Faction gear is a bonus. Especially Thons Injectors and Corpum Med Reppers. Clearly u have never used this setup
Bizarro Jack	Posted - 2005.09.12 20:38:00 - [13] lets review shall :) Only one or two smartbombs is senseable, due to their pathetic DPS. Cap Injectors are only good as an "OH ***!" last resort (and even then they are basically a waste of a slot). This is not to mention what a pain in the arse it is to stay supplied with the charges for them. Ishtar is a worthy enemy, but it simply cant be as invincible as it seems. We have yet to hear any EFFECTIVE fittings that doesn't let the Ishtar warp out when the going gets rough. I'm seeing the bandwagon getting pretty full with pilots in ishtars. It seems to be the latest "i win" button. In the famous words of Walter Sobchak 'This aggression will not stand, dude'* Has anyone out there had a successful setup that they use vs these things on a regular basis? Or does everyone get all antsy in the pantsy and warp out when they see them? :P "Let's get on the wire. Tell every squadron around the world how to shoot those **ers down." - General Grey, Independence Day
Mimiru	Posted - 2005.09.12 21:16:00 - [14] throw in a little jamming, problemsolved4u. Just have to have enough of a tank to kill the drones <Ap0k> "MIM: Like Gangrenous Body Parts without the amputation!"
benwallace	Posted - 2005.09.12 21:29:00 - [15] uhm yes 14-15 heavy drones (maybe even t2) is not tankable in hac they *****with dps and some ishtar pilot go all ns in high meaning you will not be able to out suck it on a normal everyday setup hac it is the ultimate hac ---------------------------------------------------
Sadist	Posted - 2005.09.12 21:42:00 - [16] Vagabond with AC's: pwn his drones, then kill the ship itself. You're not very cap dependant. Just need a good micro vs the 14-15 heavys. --------------- VIP member of the [23]
benwallace	Posted - 2005.09.12 21:58:00 - [17] micro won't kill heavy drones fyi ---------------------------------------------------
Kerby Lane	Posted - 2005.09.12 22:11:00 - [18] Edited by: Kerby Lane on 12/09/2005 22:13:22 Originally by: Sadist Vagabond with AC's: pwn his drones, then kill the ship itself. You're not very cap dependant. Just need a good micro vs the 14-15 heavys. vaga will most probably die way before that. Dont forget that many Ishtar pilots use 1-2 tracking distruptors. I tanked Ishtar in Sacri and killed his drones one by one but I dont think I had a chance to break his tank 8(
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.09.12 22:13:00 - [19] kiting it at 25km in a 650 II setup vagabond is your only hope, and then you've gotta hope he aint running a pair of tracking disruptors otherwise your not gonna hit anything, not with any decent damage anyway. Same with a zealot, cept the disruptors will have a much worse effect on a zealot with its lack of falloff. smart bombs are all well and good but any smart ishtar pilot will recall his drones the minute he sees them go off. 2 heavy launchers wont even scratch an ishtars tank. That sacriledge setup is a bit crap really. Cant see that killing anything Basically the ishtar is pretty much uber for 1on1 HAC v HAC. It packs everything that can kill another HAC (NOS + the right dmg type). It also has EW, which most HACs wont like much. Saying its an "i win" button is not strictly true. A NOS Domi with its drones + tank and a bit of EW will kill most BS 1on1 but its still considered a pretty crap BS (even though it is infact the best all round battleship imo). The reason the ishtar is so popular is because in the BS field, every1 is concerned with doing max DPS all the time, and the domi falls short. With HACs however, its about functionality and what your ship can do. In this aspect, the Ishtar is king, as is the domi in the BS field but most people will ignore to try and score the highest DPS they possibly can. My Latest Vid: Linky
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.12 22:19:00 - [20] tracking disruptors do very little to autocannons.. at least not the dual 180mm ones. ------ FERRET DEMOCRACY
Kerby Lane	Posted - 2005.09.12 22:19:00 - [21] Originally by: Eyeshadow kiting it at 25km in a 650 II setup vagabond is your only hope, and then you've gotta hope he aint running a pair of tracking disruptors otherwise your not gonna hit anything, not with any decent damage anyway. Same with a zealot, cept the disruptors will have a much worse effect on a zealot with its lack of falloff. There is 2 problems with 25 kms range. 1. You need faction warp distruptor. 2. Many ( most ?) Ishtar pilots use tracking distruptors. With Domi warp distruptor I will go for Cerb.
Shayla Sh'inlux	Posted - 2005.09.12 22:25:00 - [22] I'm curious how you all setup your Ishtars. I have a generic setup that I can take into any battle (anything that's not blobbing) and be confident I stand a good chance. I won't spill it just yet here tho. Let's see some setups :-)
benwallace	Posted - 2005.09.12 22:26:00 - [23] hmm you do know ishtar drones can attack to 40km+ right bonuses ftw ---------------------------------------------------
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.09.12 22:41:00 - [24] Originally by: benwallace hmm you do know ishtar drones can attack to 40km+ right bonuses ftw actually its 70km with max skills but heavies are pretty damn slow, not to mention drone Ai isnt exactly uber. They regularly get stuck on each other or dont MWD to target when they should and stuff. Ive found that using heavies outside of about 20km is a bit crap. Lights on the other hand are good fun to send after a ceptor thats 60km away though of course, they do nothing against a HAC My Latest Vid: Linky
Meridius	Posted - 2005.09.12 23:23:00 - [25] Originally by: Eyeshadow The reason the ishtar is so popular is because in the BS field, every1 is concerned with doing max DPS all the time, and the domi falls short. With HACs however, its about functionality and what your ship can do. In this aspect, the Ishtar is king, as is the domi in the BS field but most people will ignore to try and score the highest DPS they possibly can. You're missing one big point. The Ishtars drones does the same amount of damage as the Domis. The Domis drone DPS is much less compared gank battleships but the Ishtars is not much less then gank HACs. The Ishtar does great damage as well as being a tactical nightmare. ________________________________________________________
Nafri	Posted - 2005.09.12 23:36:00 - [26] Originally by: Jim Raynor tracking disruptors do very little to autocannons.. at least not the dual 180mm ones. believe me thy do, vaga couldnt hit me at all when I disrupted him ok, I was in frig, but anyway Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now?
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.12 23:37:00 - [27] Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Jim Raynor tracking disruptors do very little to autocannons.. at least not the dual 180mm ones. believe me thy do, vaga couldnt hit me at all when I disrupted him ok, I was in frig, but anyway that's odd last time i used two on a muninn he mwd humped me and hit me just fine. ------ FERRET DEMOCRACY
Nafri	Posted - 2005.09.12 23:50:00 - [28] Originally by: Jim Raynor Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Jim Raynor tracking disruptors do very little to autocannons.. at least not the dual 180mm ones. believe me thy do, vaga couldnt hit me at all when I disrupted him ok, I was in frig, but anyway that's odd last time i used two on a muninn he mwd humped me and hit me just fine. must have been a lucky bastard But that are the drawbacks of Tracking Disruptors. You cant be sure thy work, and your teammates ask you why your sitting there doing nothing buhuu, one day Ill disrupt them all!!! Your bla bla hit bla bla for bla bla damage. Wanna have some bubu now?
Derron Bel	Posted - 2005.09.12 23:57:00 - [29] Well, if he can keep the transversal very low, I can see that happening. Projectile weapon falloff is big, afterall, so they arn't as sensitive to the range disruption. -==- Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise! LooseCannoN> ahh! LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled!
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.09.13 07:44:00 - [30] Edited by: Eyeshadow on 13/09/2005 07:44:45 Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Eyeshadow The reason the ishtar is so popular is because in the BS field, every1 is concerned with doing max DPS all the time, and the domi falls short. With HACs however, its about functionality and what your ship can do. In this aspect, the Ishtar is king, as is the domi in the BS field but most people will ignore to try and score the highest DPS they possibly can. You're missing one big point. The Ishtars drones does the same amount of damage as the Domis. The Domis drone DPS is much less compared gank battleships but the Ishtars is not much less then gank HACs. The Ishtar does great damage as well as being a tactical nightmare. Actually the DPS of an ishtar's drones is a fair bit lower than a gank HAC. 15 beserkers dont even hit 300 DPS. Its only with 15 tech2 ogres that it hits 400 DPS. Your average zealot or deimos will easily hit that figure Of course, the ishtar has a lot more going for it than damage My Latest Vid: Linky
von Torgo	Posted - 2005.09.13 08:29:00 - [31] Originally by: Eyeshadow Edited by: Eyeshadow on 13/09/2005 07:44:45 Actually the DPS of an ishtar's drones is a fair bit lower than a gank HAC. 15 beserkers dont even hit 300 DPS. Its only with 15 tech2 ogres that it hits 400 DPS. Your average zealot or deimos will easily hit that figure Of course, the ishtar has a lot more going for it than damage No. Zealot doesn't easily hit that figure. It has to use best t2 guns and be fitted all the way for ganking. This leaves absolutely no room for tanking, while Ishtar can use it's slots for anything they will.
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.09.13 08:52:00 - [32] Originally by: von Torgo Originally by: Eyeshadow Edited by: Eyeshadow on 13/09/2005 07:44:45 Actually the DPS of an ishtar's drones is a fair bit lower than a gank HAC. 15 beserkers dont even hit 300 DPS. Its only with 15 tech2 ogres that it hits 400 DPS. Your average zealot or deimos will easily hit that figure Of course, the ishtar has a lot more going for it than damage No. Zealot doesn't easily hit that figure. It has to use best t2 guns and be fitted all the way for ganking. This leaves absolutely no room for tanking, while Ishtar can use it's slots for anything they will. you get 300 DPS out of a zealot with a MWD, medium nos, quad light beams and a 1600 plate. With heavy pulse, 4 dmg mods and medium rep you get way over 400. Dont try and tell me the zealot doesnt do enough damage. The ishtar only just hits 400 DPS, all thermal i may add (most tanked dmg in game) with tech2 drones that cost ~2mil each and take a long time to train for. Dont try and tell me that its easy to do so much damage and oh so hard for a zealot I know the ishtar is a damn good ship, its why i fly it. It owns in 1on1 HAC and also in most other situations but please dont try and make out its some uber DPS machine cos it aint. It makes up for it in other departments My Latest Vid: Linky
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.13 08:57:00 - [33] err Zealots can do like 400-600 DPS no? ------ FERRET DEMOCRACY
KIAEddZ	Posted - 2005.09.13 09:04:00 - [34] LoL at some of the total nonsense spouted on this thread. The Ishtar is extremely difficult to counter 1v1, especially if its in the hands of an experienced pilot. If its setup includes named reps and named nos (corpum 19k) then i would say 1v1, its unbeatable. I believe a unnamed ;) KIA pilot has this setup: 3 Corpum Nos (19km range) Small Neut Blasters (for drone destruction) 2 x Faction Scramblers (i beleive 1x2 point and 1x1 point) 15k web Cap recharge Hardeners dual corpum reps Tech 2 drones I believe he is yet unbeatenin a 1v1, with ease, and has had quite a bit of success vs Battleships 1v1. CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we is doing it in space.
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.09.13 09:16:00 - [35] Originally by: KIAEddZ LoL at some of the total nonsense spouted on this thread. The Ishtar is extremely difficult to counter 1v1, especially if its in the hands of an experienced pilot. If its setup includes named reps and named nos (corpum 19k) then i would say 1v1, its unbeatable. I believe a unnamed ;) KIA pilot has this setup: 3 Corpum Nos (19km range) Small Neut Blasters (for drone destruction) 2 x Faction Scramblers (i beleive 1x2 point and 1x1 point) 15k web Cap recharge Hardeners dual corpum reps Tech 2 drones I believe he is yet unbeatenin a 1v1, with ease, and has had quite a bit of success vs Battleships 1v1. wow thats one over the top setup for an ishtar. TBH, sticking a 1600 plate, tracking disruptor + multispec in mids with web + scramble and 2 nos in the highs and theres nothing thats gonna beat it short of a smart bombing battleship with NOS. Ive never had a 1on1 with another HAC in mine except a close range vaga and he didnt even get through my shields. Ive also killed quite a few BS solo in my ishtar. It is by far the best solo ship in the game imo. Id rather have a zealot or a deimos if we are in a group cos of the higher and instant DPS, but on my own, its the ishtar always Overpowered? Im not sure tbh. Its certainly not a DPS machine. It does spank most things in a 1on1 situation but i think its a perfectly acceptable compromise. Your damage can be taken away or left behind and i feel thats a sufficient trade off for its flexibility My Latest Vid: Linky
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.13 09:32:00 - [36] can an ishtar punch through a dual rep apoc? ;/ ------ FERRET DEMOCRACY
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.09.13 09:38:00 - [37] Originally by: Jim Raynor can an ishtar punch through a dual rep apoc? ;/ with 15 beserkers yeah, with ogres/wasps/praetors, im not sure My Latest Vid: Linky
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.13 09:42:00 - [38] Originally by: Eyeshadow Originally by: Jim Raynor can an ishtar punch through a dual rep apoc? ;/ with 15 beserkers yeah, with ogres/wasps/praetors, im not sure crazy. ------ FERRET DEMOCRACY
shakaZ XIV	Posted - 2005.09.13 11:01:00 - [39] Originally by: Jim Raynor can an ishtar punch through a dual rep apoc? ;/ not with nos setup, but it can easily with 3x med (electron) blaster as thats another ~150 dps + the ~250 from drones i had a 10 minute long fight with an apoc a while back in my ishtar, 3x med diminishing nos + 2x small pulselaser II fitted + 14 berzerkers... wasn't enough to break the tank.
Trefnis	Posted - 2005.09.13 12:49:00 - [40] Originally by: Jim Raynor Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Jim Raynor tracking disruptors do very little to autocannons.. at least not the dual 180mm ones. believe me thy do, vaga couldnt hit me at all when I disrupted him ok, I was in frig, but anyway that's odd last time i used two on a muninn he mwd humped me and hit me just fine. muninn has tracking bonus on its own, I can kill frig with 425 ac with one tracking disruptor on me, but only if I web it. Not sure about ceptor as of its small sig.
Trooper B99	Posted - 2005.09.13 13:21:00 - [41] Which reminds me, Eye, I have to get you on SiSi to try out that munin set-up i was working on! See how long it lasts before you blow it to smithereens. Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106
HankMurphy	Posted - 2005.09.13 13:51:00 - [42] Hmmm... Its a given the drones are basterds. But it seems the icing on the cake is the NOS and EW. How does this sound? A stabber at approx 13-14k, one SB, one MWD, and all the cap and track mods you can fit after that? (650 IIs i'm thinkin, would rather 425s for obviouse reasons, not sure if i could stay at optimal and still be outside NOS, too lazy to check object explorer :P ). As before, comments, suggestions and critisism plz! Thanks All!! *"Weren't you paying attention? Nintendos pass through anything." -Col. Jack Oneill*
darth solo	Posted - 2005.09.13 14:20:00 - [43] Edited by: darth solo on 13/09/2005 14:20:46 my other char uses a ishtar and having 15 heavy drones/hac lvl 5 is just crazy... The beauty of the ishtar though is in the variations of setups... its 5 lows 5 meds make it good at EVERYTHING... fighting an ishtar u will never really know what u shall be up against. thats its biggest advantage. d solo.
Jasmine Constantine	Posted - 2005.09.13 14:28:00 - [44] Its a damn good ship, must admit I nicked Eyeshadow's loadout because I was a bit of a HAC noob and it works a treat. Had absolutely no problems against Tempests, Apocs, Megathrons and the like. The drawback is of course large nos and smartbombs from battleships or HAC's that fight at longish range 15-20 and keep a scramble. Without the Ishtar getting to nos range itself I think the tank dies eventually against a decent bombardment (of course the bombarder needs to survive 15 berserker II's [8) to do it) The other way I'd kill one is to use dampers and light drones to confuse the Ishtar's drone loadout. (the ishtar heavies will waste shots responding to aggression from stupidly fast light drones) - but obviously you need a ship with both responable mids + room for 10 light drones to do it. All round though it is an excellent HAC and I'm very glad I bought one. _________________ Shoot Tyrants - join Jericho Fraction!
HankMurphy	Posted - 2005.09.13 18:48:00 - [45] And the verdict is unanomous, the Ishtar is unbeatable in 1v1 pvp....?!?! I am pretty suprised. I figured SOMEONE would post something along the lines of "Try this, I take em down this way all the time." I havent even heard someone try to lie about taking one down (incredibly rare for the forums!) Sounds like the Ishtar is gonna get a one way trip to Nerf City after a couple/few months. Till then, I'll be honing my skills in anxious anticipation, looking for the perfect anti-Ishtar HAC setup ( <---- HankMurphy after killing his first Ishtar solo) ( <----- Sauron flyin around in his pod thinkin "wtfjusthappened?") *"Weren't you paying attention? Nintendos pass through anything." -Col. Jack Oneill*
Rexthor Hammerfists	Posted - 2005.09.13 18:55:00 - [46] ecm
Stormfront	Posted - 2005.09.13 19:33:00 - [47] Edited by: Stormfront on 13/09/2005 19:37:00 3 med nos 2 quad light beam IIs 1 MEd kinetic smarti (named) ab, web, scram, cap recharge/tracking dis (for regular setups) 2 emd rep IIs therm hardner 2 cap relay OR 1 med repII therm energized adaptive II 800 plate cap relay 1 med smarti kills tech I drones before they can break ur tank. However if an Ishtar has ew.. u will be out of cap (though after having killed the drones). EDIT : Its a sacrilege setup
Denrace	Posted - 2005.09.13 19:39:00 - [48] Edited by: Denrace on 13/09/2005 19:42:50 Edited by: Denrace on 13/09/2005 19:40:56 by benwallace: ""uhm yes 14-15 heavy drones (maybe even t2) is not tankable in hac they *****with dps and some ishtar pilot go all ns in high meaning you will not be able to out suck it on a normal everyday setup hac it is the ultimate hac"" yeah right... ive done it. its possible. i. have. done. it. sheesh...get a clue benwallace. clearly you never have flown a sacrilege with a tank. its cap is too good, and its nossing the ishtar too..so nosses are effectively balanced out between the ships. even if the sacri cant kill the ishtar, the ishtar damn well cannot even remotely come to CLOSE to breaking the tank of a sacrilege. no HAC can break a sacrileges tank. NONE. it has been thoroughly tested. with nos, with plates with everything. only ships that can break sacris tank are heavy nos BS's, a tempest/machariel with 1400 II's at 90km and a blasterthron with heavy drones. Of course, a blasterthron wont kill a sacrilege if the sac can keep at 15km from it. drones or not. sacri tanks 15 heavy drones (any type) without breaking so much as a sweat. dont bother commenting on the fact that "so what if your sac cant kill me?" because i was merely correcting your mistake of thinking your drones will even scratch my sacrilege Custom Sigs Made! Gallery Link: http://photobucket.com/albums/b4/Denrace/
Stormfront	Posted - 2005.09.13 19:43:00 - [49] Quote: by benwallace: ""uhm yes 14-15 heavy drones (maybe even t2) is not tankable in hac they *****with dps and some ishtar pilot go all ns in high meaning you will not be able to out suck it on a normal everyday setup hac it is the ultimate hac"" yeah right... ive done it. its possible. i. have. done. it. sheesh...get a clue benwallace. clearly you never have flown a sacrilege with a tank. its cap is too good, and its nossing the ishtar too..so nosses are effectively balanced out between the ships. maybe even if the sacri cant kill the sihtar, the ishtar damn well cannot even remotely come to CLOSE to breaking the tank of a sacrilege. no HAC can break a sacrileges tank. NONE. it has been thoroughly tested. with nos, with plates with everything. only ships that can break sacris tank are heavy nos BS's, a tempest/machariel with 1400 II's at 90km and a blasterthron with heavy drones. Of course, a blasterthron wont kill a sacrilege if the sac can keep at 15km from it. drones or not. sacri tanks 15 heavy drones (any type) without breaking so much as a sweat. FALSE Sacri cannot tank 15 heavy drones. You need TWO MEd reps to do that. Or you need a plate and 1 med rep and even then your tank will slowly but SURELY drop. You will rely on having as many NOS (3 minimum) against an Ishtar to break even on cap. AND HERE IS WHERE THE EW on the IShtar will kill ya. I'm sure your setup against that Eyeshadow speaks off will end in you dying with no cap to run your reps. I fly both ships.. ITS TESTED I KNOW IT.
Denrace	Posted - 2005.09.13 19:46:00 - [50] Edited by: Denrace on 13/09/2005 19:46:37 Originally by: Stormfront Quote: by benwallace: ""uhm yes 14-15 heavy drones (maybe even t2) is not tankable in hac they *****with dps and some ishtar pilot go all ns in high meaning you will not be able to out suck it on a normal everyday setup hac it is the ultimate hac"" yeah right... ive done it. its possible. i. have. done. it. sheesh...get a clue benwallace. clearly you never have flown a sacrilege with a tank. its cap is too good, and its nossing the ishtar too..so nosses are effectively balanced out between the ships. maybe even if the sacri cant kill the sihtar, the ishtar damn well cannot even remotely come to CLOSE to breaking the tank of a sacrilege. no HAC can break a sacrileges tank. NONE. it has been thoroughly tested. with nos, with plates with everything. only ships that can break sacris tank are heavy nos BS's, a tempest/machariel with 1400 II's at 90km and a blasterthron with heavy drones. Of course, a blasterthron wont kill a sacrilege if the sac can keep at 15km from it. drones or not. sacri tanks 15 heavy drones (any type) without breaking so much as a sweat. FALSE Sacri cannot tank 15 heavy drones. You need TWO MEd reps to do that. Or you need a plate and 1 med rep and even then your tank will slowly but SURELY drop. You will rely on having as many NOS (3 minimum) against an Ishtar to break even on cap. AND HERE IS WHERE THE EW on the IShtar will kill ya. I'm sure your setup against that Eyeshadow speaks off will end in you dying with no cap to run your reps. I fly both ships.. ITS TESTED I KNOW IT. er..nope 15 drones is tankable 1600mm plate, 2x corpum A-type reps (or med II) 2x thermal hardeners and some med battery II's its been done. you arent worthy to FLY a sacrilege if you cant tank 15 heavy drones on a another note: what EW setups do Ishtar pilots here use? im interested in knowing what you put in those 5 mids ____________________________________________ Sacrilege > Everything
Stormfront	Posted - 2005.09.13 19:52:00 - [51] Quote: er..nope 15 drones is tankable 1600mm plate, 2x corpum A-type reps (or med II) 2x thermal hardeners and some med battery II's its been done. you arent worthy to FLY a sacrilege if you cant tank 15 heavy drones on a another note: what EW setups do Ishtar pilots here use? im interested in knowing what you put in those 5 mids Worthy rofl... Plz lets not make this personal shall we. Firstly, how much are those 2 corpum reps worth? We are not talking of setups that require a billion ISK to fit out. Talk using regular on market affordable/available mods. Not everyone carebears it out like you might. Btw, how many ships have you killed in your Sacrilege solo? I would like to see it.
Denrace	Posted - 2005.09.13 19:57:00 - [52] I dont, that aint what its for. 4x 20km Disruptors. I warp in, pin things down and tank long enough for fleet support to jump in and finish the job. Im sorry if this is a MULTIPLAYER game bud. But i like flying the sacrilege as a baiting tanked tackler. Works great! Finally us tacklers get on killmails too. and im not a carebear either hehe ____________________________________________ Sacrilege > Everything
Stormfront	Posted - 2005.09.13 20:05:00 - [53] Quote: I dont, that aint what its for. 4x 20km Disruptors. I warp in, pin things down and tank long enough for fleet support to jump in and finish the job. Im sorry if this is a MULTIPLAYER game bud. But i like flying the sacrilege as a baiting tanked tackler. Works great! Finally us tacklers get on killmails too. and im not a carebear either hehe Thats fine if you dont/cant fly it solo. I DO. I fit it accordingly. I also fit it for group ops. seems you only see the Sacrilege as a tanked tackler. Now, as I pointed out. That setup with 2 med batteries, 2 nos (more will NEVER fit), 1600 plate and 2 med rep II will not fit on a SAcrilege. You dont have enough grid. Also, with 2 hardners best named, and the above setup you have used up 350 CPU. You still have 2 MID slots and 3 hi slots empty. Will you kill anythin in that ship? NO NEVER. An Apoc can tank like a mofo.. but it serves no purpose to fit out to just tank. The point of this post was to find a ship that can tank AND kill an Ishtar with 15 drones. And your setup is just useless for that job.
Calian	Posted - 2005.09.13 20:06:00 - [54] Doesn't matter how good the Ishtar is, it's the ugliest thing to ever fly through space... But anyway, I don't see the issue, the damage it does is good, but not any more than most HACs, so the biggest issue is it's nos, which you can easily counter by staying at 20-30km and using a decent named disruptor, put some EW on for good measure if you want, and the Ishtar is nothing that unbeatable... at least, that's how it seems. Will have some trouble if they fit EW, but that's true of any HAC, it's not a boon of the Ishtar specifically. Regardless, haven't had personal experience fighting one, so I can't say, but I fail to see what makes them so unbeatable when their NOS can be ranged, their drones don't do insane damage, and they're not a fast ship. Don't get me wrong though, not saying it's not a very good ship, but unbeatable? I think not. ------------------------- I hate everyone, except you.
Stormfront	Posted - 2005.09.13 20:09:00 - [55] Quote: Im sorry if this is a MULTIPLAYER game bud Multiplayer doesn't mean flying solo isn't multiplayer. When you fight solo you are still fighting MULTIPLAYER. So lets not use that reasoning to not fly ships solo. Its A MAJOR part of this game. And the risk is higher, but thats what makes it MORE FUN.
Elrathias	Posted - 2005.09.13 20:37:00 - [56] how can staying at range be a good way to handle something? imo, handling is to kill it, and already the statement "range" is the wrong statement. IF pilot_a.distance >25000 THEN warp.nearestcelestialobject ELSEIF Pilot_a.warpdisruptordistance <=25000 THEN die ELSEIF Pilot_a.warpdisruptordistance <7500 THEN pilot_a.eject_and_flee ELSE DIE Endif. --------------------------
Calian	Posted - 2005.09.13 20:43:00 - [57] Edited by: Calian on 13/09/2005 20:43:40 30km disruptors aren't that hard to buy, it's not like we're talking a billion isk for one, and you only need to stay 15km away from a Ishtar to totally negate it's NOS. What's the issue? ------------------------- I hate everyone, except you.
Meridius	Posted - 2005.09.13 20:43:00 - [58] Originally by: Eyeshadow Actually the DPS of an ishtar's drones is a fair bit lower than a gank HAC. 15 beserkers dont even hit 300 DPS. Its only with 15 tech2 ogres that it hits 400 DPS. Your average zealot or deimos will easily hit that figure Of course, the ishtar has a lot more going for it than damage It takes like 4 dmg mods on a Zealot to get 400+ DPS. It tops out around 600DPS with 7. I think most people would consider a 4 dmg mods Zealot to be quite damaging So yes the Ishtar has more for it then damage but it's not like it's lacking in that department anyway Doms 400dps vs 1200dps a Geddon does Ishtars 400dps vs 600dps a Zealot does Thats what i meant in terms of the Ishtar having a much closer DPS value to it's rivals then a Dominix. ________________________________________________________
sven dar	Posted - 2005.09.13 21:10:00 - [59] Originally by: Elrathias IF pilot_a.distance >25000 THEN warp.nearestcelestialobject ELSEIF Pilot_a.warpdisruptordistance <=25000 THEN die ELSEIF Pilot_a.warpdisruptordistance <7500 THEN pilot_a.eject_and_flee ELSE DIE Endif. roffle VB 4tw btw check ur syntax if its VB 6, on another note tho, a sac can not tank an ishtar's 15 hvy's with an off the market setup. now i have never fought an ishtar, but if i cant tank a domi's drones while hes only useing 2 nos in my sac, then no way in hell will i be able to tank a sac
HankMurphy	Posted - 2005.09.13 21:36:00 - [60] hankmurphy looks a few posts up the list Lets try to keep it civil ladies
Techyon	Posted - 2005.09.13 21:56:00 - [61] Denrace, you won't be tanking an ishtar with t2 drones with that setup, because you have no means of staying outside nos range of the isthar, and then your cap will slowly die away. The dmg of 15 heavy t2's is tankable with your reppers but only if you have cap, and that's what you won't have. Ofcourse if you friends warp in it's dead Ishtar or atleast droneless Ishtar but that's another story. ------
Eyeshadow	Posted - 2005.09.13 22:12:00 - [62] Originally by: HankMurphy And the verdict is unanomous, the Ishtar is unbeatable in 1v1 pvp....?!?! I am pretty suprised. I figured SOMEONE would post something along the lines of "Try this, I take em down this way all the time." I havent even heard someone try to lie about taking one down (incredibly rare for the forums!) Sounds like the Ishtar is gonna get a one way trip to Nerf City after a couple/few months. Till then, I'll be honing my skills in anxious anticipation, looking for the perfect anti-Ishtar HAC setup ( <---- HankMurphy after killing his first Ishtar solo) ( <----- Sauron flyin around in his pod thinkin "wtfjusthappened?") *"Weren't you paying attention? Nintendos pass through anything." -Col. Jack Oneill* I dont think the ishtar is in need of a nerf at all. Its firepower can be blown up or left behind easily, and thats the downside to having the flexibility My Latest Vid: Linky
KIAEddZ	Posted - 2005.09.14 08:39:00 - [63] No HAC can tank 3 NOS and 15 Tech 2 drones and output any kind of hurtfull damage whatsoever. None. Too much bs on this thread. CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we is doing it in space.
VanDam	Posted - 2005.09.14 09:10:00 - [64] i would use an apoc personally with 3 large smartys 2 heavy noses and 3 mega pulse laser II's with drones ofc not to forget a webby and a racial jammer and i good tank with 2 reps and pdu's if needed i think that might pop and ishtar Siggy By Mr Floppyknickers!
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2005.09.14 09:16:00 - [65] Originally by: Eyeshadow I dont think the ishtar is in need of a nerf at all. Its firepower can be blown up or left behind easily, and thats the downside to having the flexibility Exactly. A smartbomb or two and it's adios drones, and after that the Ishtar is pretty much helpless. Also, if you have to warp out in a hurry you're pretty much forced to leave your drones behind, again leaving you helpless (and costing a pretty penny if those drones were t2 heavies). Yes, a properly flown Ishtar with good skills is scary, but at that point we're talking about a lot of rank 5 skills. It's a very skill-intensive ship, and (as noted) is based around drones. Take those out and you win. Simple as that. I fly an Ishtar a lot, and the HAC I'm most scared of is the Vagabond. Drones are slow (slow to fly and to deploy), and the Vaga is just so freaking fast it's scary -- it'll be in your armor before you have the first drone out. In addition, the expl + em damage from projectiles hits the Ishtar's weakest resists. But of course, everything depends on the setup, the skills, the engagement distance, etc etc yadda yadda. And most fights aren't 1vs1, anyway.
Alex Harumichi	Posted - 2005.09.14 09:43:00 - [66] Originally by: VanDam i would use an apoc personally with 3 large smartys 2 heavy noses and 3 mega pulse laser II's with drones ofc not to forget a webby and a racial jammer and i good tank with 2 reps and pdu's if needed i think that might pop and ishtar "Might?" Unless flown by a moron, that setup (or anything like it) should pulverize any Ishtar, unless it's specifically set up with EW vs. your battleship -- and even then it won't kill you (smartbombs = dead drones). In general, the combo of bs with reasonable tank + large nosferatus + large smartbombs will mean dead Ishtar. As long as you can tank the Ishtar's drones for the small while it takes for your smartbomb(s) to wipe out the drones, you're golden. That Ishtar won't be tanking much with no cap. Remember that unlike the Dom, the Ishtar doesn't have the capability of launching multiple waves of heavy drones. It's one wave, and after that either a much smaller wave of heavies or a wave of mediums (assuming Heavy Assaults V, which isn't exactly common. Less drones with the more common skill level of 4). The Ishtar is a good ship, but it's not the God Ship some people make it out to be. Fly one first, talk after that.
Thlayli	Posted - 2005.09.14 11:05:00 - [67] Originally by: VanDam i would use an apoc personally with 3 large smartys 2 heavy noses and 3 mega pulse laser II's with drones ofc not to forget a webby and a racial jammer and i good tank with 2 reps and pdu's if needed i think that might pop and ishtar Thought this post was about "anyotherhac" vs Ishtar... ;)
Bizarro Jack	Posted - 2005.09.14 13:16:00 - [68] yeah, thats what i thought too :P
MrMorph	Posted - 2005.09.14 17:11:00 - [69] Originally by: Denrace Sacrilege will own one at any range. Quite easily. Been tested by me thoroughly. HIGH: 4x Med Smartbomb 2x Heavy launchers MED: 2x Webber, Scrambler, Cap Injector LOWS: 1600mm plate, med rep II, 3 50% hardeners Can tank an Ishtar + drones all day long without breaking a sweat. Smartbombs kill the drones easy and the heavy missiles eat the ishtar. Cap isnt a problem either. Even if the Ishy nosses you, your injector keeps your cap up. This Bombrilege setup kills most HACs quite easily to be honest. Its tested, so dont say it cant be done. Faction gear is a bonus. Especially Thons Injectors and Corpum Med Reppers. Who was running haulers with cap-booster charges to you ? ----------------------------------------------
j0sephine	Posted - 2005.09.14 17:29:00 - [70] "Been tested by me thoroughly. HIGH: 4x Med Smartbomb 2x Heavy launchers Smartbombs kill the drones easy and the heavy missiles eat the ishtar." ... 2x heavy launcher II's with max skills and ship bonus will do ~25 dps against armour, 50 dps if Ishtar for some reason forgets explosive hardener. How the heck would you kill anything bigger than frigate with this sort of damage output? Even medium repairer can keep up with that without breaking sweat... o.O;
Gariuys	Posted - 2005.09.14 17:33:00 - [71] The dps of a ishtar isn't what kills you. Its the whole being webbed, painted, scrambled, disrupted/jammed, being pounded while supplying the ishtars tank the needed the cap thing that kills you. What I found to work is the Zealot smartbombing the drones ( either destroying them or having them recalled, either works ). But what works best is completely overwhelming the ishtar with damage. Muninn with a good spread of ammo type/missile type and drone type works very well for this. Deimos has a serious damage type problem, and engaging a ishtar with a deimos by choice is both stupid and suicidal. Vagabond cannot effectively use it's speed advantage with autocannons, cause it's right in the face of the heavy drones then which will shred the virtually non existant vaga tank. Sacrilige has a chance but only if the ishtar sports a weak enough tank to be able to be killed by the pretty low dps of a sacri that's able to tank the ishtars damage. Cerberus works pretty well, if you can manage to convince the ishtar pilot to stick around. Eagle is screwed no matter what it does. Ishtar is the king of 1on1 HACs. Which is ofcourse quite neatly balanced by the fact that if it loses it drones, or picked the wrong ones ( often ignored tidbit but em drones against a vagabond...... well lets say that turns the situation around quite neatly ) Good ship. But I'll fly the deimos over it any day, looking good > anything. :D ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Talia Windheart	Posted - 2005.09.14 17:40:00 - [72] Edited by: Talia Windheart on 14/09/2005 17:41:12 1 Way TO Fup and ishtars day.. Burst ECM.. OHHH NOES THE DRONES CAN"T ATTACK ANYMORE... DOH.. Ishtar Down... just though i should throw that out.. may not be a good setup.. but u can always target the drones if your in a small ship and blow them up.. saved my butt a few times..
Kerby Lane	Posted - 2005.09.14 17:43:00 - [73] Originally by: VanDam i would use an apoc personally with 3 large smartys 2 heavy noses and 3 mega pulse laser II's with drones ofc not to forget a webby and a racial jammer and i good tank with 2 reps and pdu's if needed i think that might pop and ishtar Quote: Ishtar vs. anyotherHAC. How does 'anyotherHAC' take these things down? From when Apoc is classified as HAC ? Moros will pwn Ishtar too btw :P
Imran	Posted - 2005.09.14 17:53:00 - [74] Originally by: Denrace Sacrilege will own one at any range. Quite easily. Been tested by me thoroughly. HIGH: 4x Med Smartbomb 2x Heavy launchers MED: 2x Webber, Scrambler, Cap Injector LOWS: 1600mm plate, med rep II, 3 50% hardeners Can tank an Ishtar + drones all day long without breaking a sweat. Smartbombs kill the drones easy and the heavy missiles eat the ishtar. Cap isnt a problem either. Even if the Ishy nosses you, your injector keeps your cap up. This Bombrilege setup kills most HACs quite easily to be honest. Its tested, so dont say it cant be done. Faction gear is a bonus. Especially Thons Injectors and Corpum Med Reppers. Uhh...
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2005.09.14 18:16:00 - [75] I've flown Ishtars a lot, and they are not unbeatable. Theres three ways.. 1. ECM him before drones are on you, either before he deploys or while they're on someone else. Drones are dumb, they wont respond to anything past the first aggression. 2. Kite 15-20km, or more if you can afford a good disruptor. Most Ishtars cant tank forever without the nos. Use a mwd to keep orbit and stay out of web/nos range. Drones won't even catch you. 3. Blow up the drones. Cerberus is good for this cause its not affected by tracking disruptors. If the pilot is using Heavies, he'll have only one full set and maybe a few spares in the bay. Gallente are close range ships, treat it like a Deimos. Don't get close and you won't die. Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
Jim Raynor	Posted - 2005.09.14 20:45:00 - [76] Heavy Drones have a Sig Radius of 100m, They have like what? 400-600 HP total? A Cerberus could pwn those pretty fast.. like 5 every 15 seconds (with my skills/setup at least), if he's attacking at range he could kill all of them before they ever reached him, of course an Ishtar pilot would realize this and run though. ------ FERRET DEMOCRACY

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