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Harkov
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Posted - 2003.08.06 13:21:00 -
[61]
 Quote:
The other weird thing to come out of trying this is that I was getting better shots on missiles than I was on ships, which is a little odd considering they were smaller and faster than the target I was up against.
i would suspect this is simply because the missiles have no 'resistance' to damage types, or at least the damage type you were firing. against a ship, unless you're firing straight EM damage, your damage is affected by the resistance of the shields of the ship (or armor if the shields are gone)
Harkov
Proud Member of the "I Almost Blew Myself Up with a Torpedo" Club
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Macumba
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Posted - 2003.08.06 13:30:00 -
[62]
Not better as in damage, better accuracy. I never missed a single shot when I was firing at missiles, yet I'd still miss cruisers that were in the sweet spot of my turrets (no change there then).
"PVP = griefing" Papa Smurf |
Karif
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Posted - 2003.08.06 15:24:00 -
[63]
To the Thorax Pilots reading this thread:
You have a 2000m3 drone bay.
(TIP: Compare that to the drone bays on the other skill 3 cruisers)
Once you're willing to give that up, you can start complaining about being forced to mount a 250mw Medium Smartbomb to deal with heavy missiles.
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Deception + Information + Skill |
ChironV
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Posted - 2003.08.06 20:47:00 -
[64]
Its all gravy...
With all the future tech and weapons coming, its only a matter of finding methods that work for you and your ship. Everyone will have thier own way of doing battle.
I use missles (Alot).
My first task was to buy the BP's. Then mine the min's and buy a missle boat. Having the BP's is the only way to cost effectivly use them.
I've tried out against fellow corp players where he had defenders and a small smart bomb. I was still able to hit him with 2 widder makers and keep the distance open enough so he couldnt hit me. He may have destroyed 12 missles but I had an entire cargo hold full of torps, and heavies. If he had gotten close enough I would have been chewed up like a Pit Bull on a toy poodle. 
________________________________________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.08.06 21:19:00 -
[65]
Quote:
Its all gravy...
With all the future tech and weapons coming, its only a matter of finding methods that work for you and your ship. Everyone will have thier own way of doing battle.
I use missles (Alot).
My first task was to buy the BP's. Then mine the min's and buy a missle boat. Having the BP's is the only way to cost effectivly use them.
I've tried out against fellow corp players where he had defenders and a small smart bomb. I was still able to hit him with 2 widder makers and keep the distance open enough so he couldnt hit me. He may have destroyed 12 missles but I had an entire cargo hold full of torps, and heavies. If he had gotten close enough I would have been chewed up like a Pit Bull on a toy poodle.
Hate to burst your bubble but that worked against your buddy. It won't work against anyone that understands missiles.
To hit me with a missile you'll have to be within 16km. Otherwise I can stop you without using a defender or smartbomb. If you use multiple launchers, you have to stagger fire them else that applies across the board for up to 4 launchers. If you're outside my weapon range, the best you can hope for is a standoff. And that only applies if you have defenders to counter my missiles on your missile boat.
It's been a while since I've done active missile defense and it took a bit to figure out how to do it again with the current implementation. But point defense against missiles is completely possible and highly effective if you know how to do it. I've been using this against missile using npc pirates. Until they cross te 16km threshold, they cannot hit with a missile. And at 16km, they've just crossed into the ugly area of my artillery range 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Kimi
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Posted - 2003.08.06 22:59:00 -
[66]
" He may have destroyed 12 missles but I had an entire cargo hold full of torps, and heavies..."
Hate to tell you, but that won't get you far against anything serious. I have used up over 100 expensive cruise missiles on small (4) 20K bounty pirate spawns, and often ran out before the 2nd spawn. And that was in a Caracal with 500+ cargo space full of missiles and 5 h50 type launchers full.
Doing the same spawns with lasers/rails I can stay out there for hours, or until the cargo holds are full of junk.
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Digital Sin
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Posted - 2003.08.07 00:50:00 -
[67]
yes i agree... missiles suck. make medium take out heavy missiles, and large take out cruise. also for gods sake increase the range of a cruise missile! what good is a cruise missile if a standard gun can outrange it?
got a raven and missile op 5, i plan to put it to good use one day.
"To be content,to be comfortable, is to be complacent. No one learns anything from pleasure..pain on the other hand is a most efficient instructor" |
Shyuka Nagumo
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Posted - 2003.08.18 15:01:00 -
[68]
I'll probably get jumped on for this, but I really liked Greeble's idea.
I think missiles need some help, but they shouldn't be compared to turrets; If missiles could somehow evade shields, it would make missiles a viable *alternative to* turrets. It would mean that the Caldari 'specialty' of missiles would be useful and it would bring a whole load more flavour to PvP. People would actually fear the slow moving torpedo (as well they should).
Idea - perhaps you have to hit the shields with an EM type missile first, which would then 'disrupt' the shields harmonics or somesuch, allowing the next wave of non EM missiles through to hit the hull... just a thought. Be nice if you could get a module like a warp stabiliser, but for shields, that would counter this effect.
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xeno calligan
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Posted - 2003.08.23 16:51:00 -
[69]
Edited by: xeno calligan on 23/08/2003 17:07:01
@ karif, I just want to know which kind of java you're drinking because you have some very nice ideas there. 
To add to the confusion:
I'd like the see more "race tuned" point defence systems, e.g.
- Amarr: smartbombs, considered laser weapons and will get reduction in cap use per ship lvl
- Caldari: defender missiles, bonus to launcher speed per lvl
- Gallente: defender drones, bonus to rof or dmg per lvl
- Minmatar: auto targeters, bonus to targeting speed per lvl or rof to linked weapons... or maybe the same as caldari
Also I think that missiles ought to be a magnitude faster than any ship -- while it should be possile to "dodge" a missile by maneuvering, it seems silly that you can just outrun them.
Final note: IMO launchers are not support weapons. They are assault weapons of the highest caliber and should be given stats to reflect this. Ships should be forced to equip point defence systems to counter the threat (incl drones), or face the consequences -- similar to ecm.
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Kashre
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Posted - 2003.08.24 07:21:00 -
[70]
I think missiles should be taken out by any hit at all, even the big ones. They can already dominate frigate vs. frigate battles, because light missiles are fast enough to catch anything and small turrets dont have a range advantage on them.
But after that they fall apart. They start to get WAY too slow to be usefull, and have such short endurance that they have crap all for range. At that point, there is no reason to have them instead of other turrets.
That might be different in a fleet engagement though. Everyone talks in terms of one on one battleship fights, but really, how common is that. More common is a few battleships against many battleships probably. If you have, say 8 or 10 missiles comeing from different directions, I daresay all of your fullproof active missile defences might not work out as well, and at the least that should distract the hell out of you.
+++
It's called "low security space" for a reason. |
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SISQO
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Posted - 2003.08.24 18:04:00 -
[71]
Smartbombs should not be nerfed, missiles should not be beefed up. The only legitimate missile loving I'd agree to is a little boost in speed, a LITTLE I said, don't be adding 300 m/s to it...
A caldari missile boat, or any other missile boat launching a barrage of missiles at an enemy ship is almost garanteed a couple hits if he doesn't warp off. If the enemy pilot is intent on destroying the missile he will have to waste time and pay attention to the missiles and set off the smartbomb in a timely manner, not to mention the huge amount of cap used to destroy the missiles. If you've set a smartbomb on auto-repeat you will see how much of a cap killer it is.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.08.24 20:11:00 -
[72]
"If the enemy pilot is intent on destroying the missile he will have to waste time and pay attention to the missiles and set off the smartbomb in a timely manner, not to mention the huge amount of cap used to destroy the missiles."
... Why would he even bother? The heaviest missiles do less damage now than some more serious guns out there...
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SISQO
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Posted - 2003.08.24 20:44:00 -
[73]
Edited by: SISQO on 24/08/2003 20:44:37
Quote:
"If the enemy pilot is intent on destroying the missile he will have to waste time and pay attention to the missiles and set off the smartbomb in a timely manner, not to mention the huge amount of cap used to destroy the missiles."
... Why would he even bother? The heaviest missiles do less damage now than some more serious guns out there...
If you want to quote me and use that as an excuse to flame me, ok. Here goes
Eat 6 cruise missiles and see how weak it is. Even with hardeners if used properly will do even more damage then the more "serious" guns out there. The serious guns your most likely talking about are 250mm gauss rails, 425mm rails, heavy mod beams, and thacyon beams. Hybrids do thermal and kin dmg, lasers do thermal and emp. Slap on thermal and emp shields and you've basically gimped the damage greatly, but are vulnerable to explosive and kinetic missiles. 6 cruise missiles of explosive or kinetic missiles will rip a nice one in your shields and armor if it gets to that point and your still sticking around to get your ass handed to you.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.08.24 21:29:00 -
[74]
Edited by: j0sephine on 24/08/2003 21:32:52
"If you want to quote me and use that as an excuse to flame me, ok. Here goes."
... Dude, chill; i asked why would one bother to go at lengths to protect themselves from what's at best average amount of damage when there's all those uber-turrets out there and i don't see anyone crying "no fair, i can't shoot the bullets mid-flight!" If you took it as a flame... well, i can't help it post-fact but it wasn't intended to be one, ok?.. :s
For the record, i was using some amounts of cruise missiles on hardener-equipped battleships yesterday. The damage was reduced to something like 72 hp with EMP, and 100-120 hp per missile with other types. (shield has quite nice explosive and kinetic resistance on its own) Considering you can't launch the missiles with less than 4-5 secs of separation or they explode on one another, so it's as mind-occupying as firing those smartbombs... you'll be v.lucky if you manage to land all six of them on your target... so in best case you'll be able to deal 600-750 hp every what, 30 secs?.. and that's for the price of 60k or more per volley.
... you'd probably got better effect just throwing the hard isk at them... :s
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Callas
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Posted - 2003.08.25 14:51:00 -
[75]
Quote:
No offense, but missiles need the love. Right now, the main weapon of Caldari battleships can be entirely neutralized by one small smartbomb.
Missiles are slow-moving, slow-firing, and shockingly expensive to deploy, and all for sub-par damage when compared to turrets.
I totally agree.
A missile hit should be a *serious* kick-ass WHACK - 5x or 10x that of a normal turret hit - several hundred points of damage, maybe a thousand.
I'm also tempted to say that missiles should ignore shields totally, since they deliver the warhead directly to the hull.
That might be a nice complicating factor in battle, since you'd need shield improvers vs turret fire, but *armour* improvers vs missile fire.
Right now, *no one* uses armour hardeners.
But hey, the devs don't read this, they live in dev-land where they're kept carefully shielded from bug reports and user requests. None of this will ever happen.
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Callas
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EaglesFire
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Posted - 2003.08.26 01:00:00 -
[76]
Missle changes:
1: All types should go 2x thier speed now.
2: Fix the bug where they kill each other.
3: Don't change anything else on missiles.
4: Change Missile Launchers!
a: should have a launcher type for every type of missile.
b: should have 2 basic type of lauchers
1: slow rate of fire, but fires 2 or more missiles at a time, or
2: high rate of fire, but only fires one at a time.
Having a launcher that can hold 25 light missiles, but only fire 1 at a time.... jeez.
"Knowledge is power, and the uninformed SHALL be punished!"
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.08.26 02:05:00 -
[77]
"Having a launcher that can hold 25 light missiles, but only fire 1 at a time.... jeez."
... What about Homeworld-like heavy missile launchers for battleships... :s (the missile destroyers in that game were able to either fire quick series of missiles one by one or as special attack, fire full load at once in a swarm of few dozens of rockets =)
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2003.08.26 13:58:00 -
[78]
I would also like to see the ability to launch a swarm of missiles at once from the larger holders.
An h50 can hold 50 light missiles, but can only shoot them one at a time every 10-15s?
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Falnaerith
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Posted - 2003.08.27 19:06:00 -
[79]
Missles need attention, period. You are correct the devs never look in here, so our ideas will never be seen. The only good this forum does is to show that there is something to be looked at. The dev's will figure out the details after that.
But yes, a turret can fire 2-3 times while the laucher is waiting for the next shot. Ouch.
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Basic truths?
Idiots make us rich.
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Some people are only alive because it is illegal to kill them. |
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