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Shahai Shintaro
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis Dragonaors
20
   |
Posted - 2013.04.12 18:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
tl;dr security status should be a combination of your sec status and your faction standing to whoever owns the space your in.
I live in faction war low sec. As such, I will open fire on anyone who enters a plex I am in who isn't blue. This feeling has caused my security status to plummet (-4.5 if I remember correctly). However, with all my service to the state, the Caldari state loves me (6.2 faction standing). It makes no sense to me that for all I am loved by the state they would deny me access to their high sec space.
I am therefore proposing an effective security status. This effective standing would be a combination of your global security standing and your faction standing of the faction who owns the space you are in. Using myself as an example, I would have 1.7 sec status in Caldari space but -10 sec status in Gallente and minmatar space. My amarr sec status would be -4.5 as I have no amarr standings.
This effective sec status could be modified further to take the security rating of the system into effect as follows:
ess=ss+fs*(1.1-sr)
Where ess is effective sec status, ss is global sec status, fs is faction standings, and sr is security rating
The 1.1 can be modified as necessary to achieve the bonus
Thoughts? |
Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative.
510
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 19:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sec status and faction standing are for 2 different entities, CONCORD is sec status, caldari is caldaro standing. if caldari determined your sec status and the sec status of their systems, jita would be a 1.0
so its ONCORD saying its a no-no for you to go to 1.0 systems and etc
(that being said though, FW people should be allowed to shoot neutrals in FW lowsec systems with only half the sec loss outside of PLEX's and no sec-loss inside of PLEX's, since that IS a warzone, and anyone in there is undoubtedly up to no good, CONCORD should consider that when deducting my standing for defending myself against a pirate gang in a MILITARY COMBAT ZONE [read inside a freaking plex]) |
Shahai Shintaro
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis Dragonaors
20
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 20:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Sec status and faction standing are for 2 different entities, CONCORD is sec status, caldari is caldaro standing. if caldari determined your sec status and the sec status of their systems, jita would be a 1.0
so its ONCORD saying its a no-no for you to go to 1.0 systems and etc
While it is Concord that shows up when you do something wrong, it is faction police that show up and shoot you for having low sec status. Also, if you look at the warning message you get when you enter high sec with low sec standings, they come from the faction, not Concord.
It would be interesting if contested faction war systems were treated as null sec. Concord made everyone in luminaire suspect, could do the same in fw space, but that's a different topic |
Z GTC
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 20:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
Your Idea makes a lot of sense because of the fact that it is Faction police that shows up to attack you when you have low security status in their systems.
Unfortunately there are a lot of people who deserve to be chased around, such as gankers.
For low sec, my opinion is there should be no security status loss no matter what. Certain activities may be frowned upon but that should be up to the gate or station guns to poke you out there. It should not affect your high sec standings. |
Shahai Shintaro
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis Dragonaors
20
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
Z HTC wrote:
Unfortunately there are a lot of people who deserve to be chased around, such as gankers.
The odds of a ganker having high faction standing is slim as they aren't the type to grind missions or do anything else that would gain faction standing. One solution, however, is having sec status losses also result in faction losses while in high sec. Or the amount of faction standing lost could be a percentage of the sec standing hit based on the security rating of the system. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate
Sailors of the Sacred Spice
954
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
That's like saying miners should be free from gankers in belts. FW ppl don't own certain parts of lowsec, they just live in it. Welcome to Eve.
Standings Improvement Service
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Z GTC
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Shahai Shintaro wrote:Z GTC wrote:
Unfortunately there are a lot of people who deserve to be chased around, such as gankers.
The odds of a ganker having high faction standing is slim as they aren't the type to grind missions or do anything else that would gain faction standing. One solution, however, is having sec status losses also result in faction losses while in high sec. Or the amount of faction standing lost could be a percentage of the sec standing hit based on the security rating of the system.
I was actually thinking the same thing, but to be honest I think it is a bit too severe on people to lose faction standings as well... |
Shahai Shintaro
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis Dragonaors
20
|
Posted - 2013.04.12 21:58:00 -
[8] - Quote
If done right, it would not be that severe. For example, if faction standings loss were equal to 10% of the sec status lost times the true sec of the system, you would only lose .1 to .01 of the sec status loss depending on the system you were in. Granted these numbers can be modified for balance purposes.
|
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
14702
|
Posted - 2013.04.13 09:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Oh look, this again.
Long answer: You are in FW not Faction Neutral Warfare. If you decide to agress a neutral, then you should pay with whatever consequences are applicable. Everyone else who lives in low, excepts this. Being a part of FW does not make you a special case.
Short answer: No.
Malcanis for CSM 8.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Nariya Kentaya
Always Negative.
513
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 21:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Oh look, this again.
Long answer: You are in FW not Faction Neutral Warfare. If you decide to agress a neutral, then you should pay with whatever consequences are applicable. Everyone else who lives in low, excepts this. Being a part of FW does not make you a special case.
Short answer: No.
logically, they arent neutrals.
the only reason you would go througha combat zone would be for combat, so being IN a FW zone would mean there would be implied intent with your presence.
but even ignoring that, its a pain in the ass to see my security status steadily dropping while doing PLEX's because im 10x more likely to have a pirate gang warp into my PLEX to kill me than a member of the opposing FW, THAT is what neds to be addressed. either restrict PLEX's to only allow FW members, or make a neutral inside a FW PLEX a free-target for everyone. because a PLEX just isnt a "combat zone" its an active combat SITE, only person who heads TOWARDS the area people are shooting eachother, doesnt just have an applied intent at shooting themselves, its a GUARANTEED intent. |
Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
14704
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 22:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:Mag's wrote:Oh look, this again.
Long answer: You are in FW not Faction Neutral Warfare. If you decide to agress a neutral, then you should pay with whatever consequences are applicable. Everyone else who lives in low, excepts this. Being a part of FW does not make you a special case.
Short answer: No. logically, they arent neutrals. the only reason you would go througha combat zone would be for combat, so being IN a FW zone would mean there would be implied intent with your presence. but even ignoring that, its a pain in the ass to see my security status steadily dropping while doing PLEX's because im 10x more likely to have a pirate gang warp into my PLEX to kill me than a member of the opposing FW, THAT is what neds to be addressed. either restrict PLEX's to only allow FW members, or make a neutral inside a FW PLEX a free-target for everyone. because a PLEX just isnt a "combat zone" its an active combat SITE, only person who heads TOWARDS the area people are shooting eachother, doesnt just have an applied intent at shooting themselves, its a GUARANTEED intent. But they are neutrals. The moment you undock every neutral pilot and more, are likely to shoot you. That is the nature of Eve. Just because it happens in an FW plex, doesn't exclude you from the consequences all have to face. No matter what statistics you invent.
It boils down to this:
If you don't want the sec hit, don't shoot first. If you do, then pay the consequences.
Malcanis for CSM 8.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
White Mountain Coalition
118
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 22:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
To address the op original post if you engage a non blue in lowsec that has not aggresed you, you are committing a criminal act and should be punished.
If you want to kill without consequence you need to go to null. |
Pan Dora
Stardust Enterprises
21
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 22:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nariya Kentaya wrote:Mag's wrote:Oh look, this again.
Long answer: You are in FW not Faction Neutral Warfare. If you decide to agress a neutral, then you should pay with whatever consequences are applicable. Everyone else who lives in low, excepts this. Being a part of FW does not make you a special case.
Short answer: No. logically, they arent neutrals. the only reason you would go througha combat zone would be for combat, so being IN a FW zone would mean there would be implied intent with your presence. but even ignoring that, its a pain in the ass to see my security status steadily dropping while doing PLEX's because im 10x more likely to have a pirate gang warp into my PLEX to kill me than a member of the opposing FW, THAT is what neds to be addressed. either restrict PLEX's to only allow FW members, or make a neutral inside a FW PLEX a free-target for everyone. because a PLEX just isnt a "combat zone" its an active combat SITE, only person who heads TOWARDS the area people are shooting eachother, doesnt just have an applied intent at shooting themselves, its a GUARANTEED intent.
If engaging a neutral in a plex its such a pain what its stoping you from warping out when a neutral comes to your plex?
_____________________________________________________
-CCP would boost ECM so it also block the ability of buthurt posting. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
116
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 23:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Unless under orders from the faction to shoot anyone that pokes in, you should be dropping faster from aggressing neutrals, as you are not only a criminal, but a war criminal representing your faction and making them look bad. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
127
|
Posted - 2013.04.16 23:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mag's wrote:But they are neutrals. The moment you undock every neutral pilot and more, are likely to shoot you. That is the nature of Eve. Just because it happens in an FW plex, doesn't exclude you from the consequences all have to face. No matter what statistics you invent.
It boils down to this:
If you don't want the sec hit, don't shoot first. If you do, then pay the consequences.
This basically.
Eve has 3 main types of people. Reds, Nuets, and blues.
Reds are WT's or people who given you kill rights however, kill em in empire, kill em in low....all good.
Blues...real easy here, in corp or alliance and officially allied to you.
And neuts. This sums up all those colors between. Make em we don't like you orange...still a neut as not a WT, and sure as hell ain't blue. Make them a nice color via standing settings to say these guys are cool but.....not the official 100% grade A blue and they are still neuts.
rest of this....eve has set up 2 regions of new eden where you can pop ships and pods to your hearts content and nothing bad will happen...at least by concord. WH and 0.0. These ofc have thier downsides. get carpel tunnel spamming d-scan in a wh and probe fu all night. Or become one of many faceless cogs in the machinery of the blob in 0.0....and fun crap like hot drops, bubbles and such.
Low sec....you don't get this. You get sec hit on drawing first blood. Pick your poison really.
TBH you should be happy you get pirates to be bothered to come off gates to hunt you down. You actually get pvp. Did low sec roams from 0.0 once in while. It can be hard to bait them on a belt. And meeting them at a gate usually becomes a painful mexican standoff. You don't want to draw first blood....pop goes the hac to ship+ gate guns. And the they don't want first blood alot of the time, they had more in mind to pop industrials and bears who took low sec missions. Meeting a pvp spec fleet potentially flown by pvp pilots with thier head out of thier ass wasn't on the menu. So there you both sit.....waiting for for first shot.
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