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Malka Badi'a
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Posted - 2005.09.18 04:16:00 -
[1]
Mining quietly in your O.R.E. Barge you notice someone warp on on your coordinates and begin a quick approach. But before you can say 'Yarr' you've been webbed and scrambled. A barrage of incoming fire eliminates your shield and vaporizes your armor, leaving your structure in the 20% or so. You get a message invitation from the pirate, who has shut off all weaponry but still has you pinned down. What do you do?
Do not reject the conversation. There is a reason he is attempting to contact you, catch your breath and relax. Answer it and ask what he or she wants. A quick responce may be "x million and you will go free". What do you do?
Do not attempt to delay the transaction. Many pirates are smart enough to keep an eye on local. If it swells while waiting, you will die. Some pirates will give you a 30 second time window to pay the ransom, which is a very generous amount. Any continual attempt to delay will result in a destroyed ship due to the pirate having to take precautions to you sending in backup. The thought of fighting back enters your mind.. what do you do?
Be wary about fighting back due to the intense risk of losing everything you've worked hard for. Fighting in a losing situation against all odds may seem noble to some, but in the reality of your actions it does nothing more than leave you with an instant pod-jump back to your home stations. If they've obliterated you this far, it won't take them long to finish the 20% structure. If you feel like you have a fighting chance, by all means have fun but accept the risk and consequences of your actions if things go bad. So, maybe you want to repair your ship and help you build some confidence for an assult?
Do not attempt to repair, release drones, turn on a shield booster, or anything similar. Anything other than a blinking wallet to show a transaction will result in the pirate having to assume the worst and opening fire to finish the job. So now the thought of running away enters your mind, what do you do?
Do not move. The moment your ship turns in any direction the guns will open fire and rip you to shreds as they did origonally. Don't even attempt an orbit. Not knowing your intentions means they have to assume the worst and respond accordingly. So now it comes to it... do you pay the ransom or not?
Do not underestimate pirates, their tactics, and their hidden agenda. Pirates make their profit by ransoms and selling your loot. Of course, having you pay up a ransom will be more profitable for both you and the pirate. Guess what that means? The pirate is not looking to destroy your ship because the ransom itself will be better off in the longrun for both of us. You get to save a ship and possibly a lot of good modules and the pirate gets to go away happy. And because of this many pirates will hold true to their word of releasing you in favor of a ransom. A bad reputation of ransoming and killing means less ransoms will be trusted to be given to the pirate.
Do the math. A solid pirate is going to look at how long you have been in the game, your current ship, and the amount of ransom that would be reasonable. If it isn't then the cards in your hands change. If it is still a reasonable deal (such as a 5 million ransom for a ship worth 30 million) then save everyone some time and trouble and just pay the ransom.
Don't run the risk of losing something very valuable just because of ego, underestimation, and that your friends may be able to save you 'in time'.
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Calderio
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Posted - 2005.09.18 04:20:00 -
[2]
this tread gets the yarrr of aproval
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Mardonius
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Posted - 2005.09.18 04:58:00 -
[3]
Honestly he speaks the truth. Happens way too often and I miss way too many ransoms, only to have victims verbally insult me in local.
One thing that you missed out, which happens to me all the time. When I find people mining in belts and attack, sometimes they escape. So I go for the next best thing and open their ore can, see how much is in there, and try to ransom it for roughly half of its market value
Every damn time they stall for time, and come back in there NPCing battleship, somehow thinking that I won't blow up the cans and fly away and they can safely reclaim their ore. Every damn time I blow the cans and wave from the window of my ship as it warps out just as their ship warps in. It really is stupid
Put simply, if a pirate ransoms your ore cans, there's no way in hell you're going to get the ore back without paying. |
Clementina
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Posted - 2005.09.18 06:15:00 -
[4]
Actually, in general, no you shouldn't pay ransoms. Primary reason is that you shoudn't be flying what you can't afford to lose, so it usually dosn't matter if you lose it or not.
For ships The reason being is that a pirate can either blow you up or not, and you can pay or not. If they pirate blows you up and you don't pay, they get what's in your can; and if the pirate blows you up and you pay, they get what's in your can plus your cash. Therefore the pirate has an incentive to blow you up, regardless of if you paid or not.
For pods, there is no economic incentive to blow you up after you paid, so it might be profitable to pay a ransom for them. However, the enjoyment factor of podding you, and collecting your killmail and corpse, might be incentive enough for him to do so after you have paid, that and sending you an evemail saying "pwn3d" or something similar.
It might actually be feasable to pay ransoms for cans of ore. there is less enjoyment factor of reniging on the ransom, although it might still exist for some pirates.
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Malka Badi'a
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Posted - 2005.09.18 06:29:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Malka Badi''a on 18/09/2005 06:35:14
 Quote:
If they pirate blows you up and you don't pay, they get what's in your can; and if the pirate blows you up and you pay, they get what's in your can plus your cash. Therefore the pirate has an incentive to blow you up, regardless of if you paid or not.
Except that, as most pirates are fully aware of, the reputation of being a ransom-killer means that less people are even going to consider giving you the ransom in the first place. Combine that with multiple pirate factions that actively hunt ransom-killers. Thus why snigg is a fully respectable pirate corpration by player/pirate alike.
It would be wise to not confuse the simple difference between 'griefer' and 'pirate', just as pirates do not confuse the simple difference between 'npc hunter' and 'miner'. |
Necrologic
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Posted - 2005.09.18 07:04:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Clementina
Actually, in general, no you shouldn't pay ransoms. Primary reason is that you shoudn't be flying what you can't afford to lose, so it usually dosn't matter if you lose it or not.
For ships The reason being is that a pirate can either blow you up or not, and you can pay or not. If they pirate blows you up and you don't pay, they get what's in your can; and if the pirate blows you up and you pay, they get what's in your can plus your cash. Therefore the pirate has an incentive to blow you up, regardless of if you paid or not.
For pods, there is no economic incentive to blow you up after you paid, so it might be profitable to pay a ransom for them. However, the enjoyment factor of podding you, and collecting your killmail and corpse, might be incentive enough for him to do so after you have paid, that and sending you an evemail saying "pwn3d" or something similar.
It might actually be feasable to pay ransoms for cans of ore. there is less enjoyment factor of reniging on the ransom, although it might still exist for some pirates.
You should be ransoms even if you are flying what you can afford to lose. Ransoms are 99% of the time cheaper than the cost to replace your ship and loadout, not even counting the hassle of putting a new ship together.
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Redwolf
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Posted - 2005.09.18 07:46:00 -
[7]
Do not believe this pirate propaganda.
Do not pay the man, he does not deserve it.
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Cuty pie
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Posted - 2005.09.18 10:21:00 -
[8]
U should never Ever pay ransom from stupid Pirates!
They will just be back the next day to do it again.
keep your pride!!!
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Mahu
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Posted - 2005.09.18 10:39:00 -
[9]
Its not just Snigg who honour ransoms I'd say most pirate corps will do. On the subject of killing after the ransom being paid I expect that the perpetrators are either sad griefers or the killing was accidental ie they didn't get the cash quick enough or turn off their guns quick enough. In these circumstances the ransom should be given back.
Any how there's a lot of mud getting thrown at pirates but not many names of ppl who don't honour ransoms. All this pirate hatred seems a little sad in my opinion, after all this is just a game and we are paying customers to.
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Nicholai Pestot
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Posted - 2005.09.18 11:08:00 -
[10]
Dont worry Mahu, hate is part of the lifestyle.Rememeber you just took THEIR cash/ship/equipment. I dont excpect my prey to be happy about it.
To the OP, good advice.
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I have supped the milk of human kindness, and discovered i am lactose intolerant |
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2005.09.18 12:48:00 -
[11]
Always pay a ransom.
If he ignores your payment and kills you anyway, you can hurt him more than you alone ever could by shaming him on the forums. There are countless pirates who hunt ransom-breakers.
--
Proud member of the [23].
Selling Capital Cargo Bays and Kernite Mining Crystal IIs, cheaper than anyone else. |
Talon Calais
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Posted - 2005.09.18 23:30:00 -
[12]
...always pay.
If you do, everyone's happy (ok victim isn't overly happy, but it could be worse). Earlier today 4 of us ran into a barge in some random .2 space, cornered him within 5 seconds of entering the belt, he damn well knew he wasn't going anywhere until we letft. His thorax of an 'escort' ran and managed to get away because he was packing core stabalizers (modded to run, hah.), so as soon as his buddy jumped out, he paid us 20 mil on the spot no questions asked, no hesitation what-so-ever, and we proceeded to leave. Stuck around in the system for a chat while aggression wore off, but he was a very calm and cool customer, which I plan on meeting again sometime ^.^
Moral of the story: This guy did everything right, if you follow Malkas easy to read rules, everyone's a lot better off. We *don't* like blowing up freighters, it's not worth it, there's a very small chance you have something worth ripping open your cargo hold for.
Just click that "Give Money" button and it's all good for both sides.
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Kellin Borough
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Posted - 2005.09.18 23:44:00 -
[13]
Agreed.
The skill and the intelligence of pirates is many times underestimated which leads to the loss of a lot of ships. If you are locked down with barely any structure and your friends warp in, there is still time for the pirate to blow you up and get away. Most pirates are tactical geniuses which is why they find you when you think your being sneaky.
So just swallow your pride, accept the ransom as fair and save your expensive ships.
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Einheriar Ulrich
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Posted - 2005.09.19 00:37:00 -
[14]
I would never pay a ransom, but hey that is just me
So Say I. Einheriar Ulrich of the Bloodline of Einheriar.
****Minion Of VOTF****
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2005.09.19 01:00:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Cuty pie
U should never Ever pay ransom from stupid Pirates!
They will just be back the next day to do it again.
keep your pride!!!
Wouldn't that make you the stupid one for getting caught twice?
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Jex Jast
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Posted - 2005.09.19 01:15:00 -
[16]
Here's a little story from one of Verone's sigs:
"Verone blew up my Daddy's hauler because he wouldn't pay the ransom. Now I have to eat from the bin again."
That poor child. So think of your child when deciding to pay the ransom. Think of how he'd have to eat from that damned bin.
And think quick or you'll get shipkilled.
_____________________________________________
Assassin for hire. Low level, low prices. |
0Virtu0
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Posted - 2005.09.19 02:54:00 -
[17]
There was one time (the only time I've ever had an unfortunate encounter as a noob vs pie-rats!) when I was flying through Syndicate trying to reach Orvolle when I got the wtfpwn by some Tundragons.
For some reason they thought I would pay a 50mil ransom for my pod when I had only been playing for a few months, had maybe 4mil skillpoints, and no implants (I had 50mil back then?). In that case, I played games with the guy for a while and eventually told him that he's out of his mind. I found myself back in ROIR pretty quick 
So if you learn anything from this newbies, be NICE to people who offer reasonable randoms and be a ***** to the others.
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I play EvE and I don't even get a stupid signature. |
Sunli
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Posted - 2005.09.19 02:54:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kellin Borough
...
Most pirates are tactical geniuses ...
Men come upon the name genius,
like an insect comes upon the name centipede.
Not becuase it has a hundred legs,
but because most men can't count past fourteen.
Walt Whitman
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Tomahawk Bliss
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Posted - 2005.09.19 04:24:00 -
[19]
never pay for two reasons. #1 most people who claim to be pirates ar elittle kids who will blow you up anyway and then you are out both your isk and your ship/pod.
#2 is ****es the pirates off and bankrupts them and makes them write forum threads about it 
Besdies good pirates don't need to worry about this kind of stuff 
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Malka Badi'a
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Posted - 2005.09.19 04:32:00 -
[20]
Tom, I'm afraid your knowledge of the underworld is limited. And while I do not mean that in a belitting way, it is something that needs to be addressed.
This isn't a whining thread about isk. It's something recommended as advice to people who may find themselves in a ransom position in the future. There are unspoken rules in the shadow of low-security space that people need to be aware of. Never once did I tell them to always pay the ransom but to rather consider all of their options and be aware of the consequences that may follow.
While it would be nice to always have them pay the ransom like little drones, I would rather see them well informed on "the way things work". Something that I feel is far too commonly lost during the heat of the moment for most players. |
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Drew Peacock
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Posted - 2005.09.19 06:14:00 -
[21]
Are you an accountant or a real man?
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Mardonius
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Posted - 2005.09.19 06:24:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Mardonius on 19/09/2005 06:25:28
Originally by: Drew Peacock
Are you an accountant or a real man?
If not paying a ransom makes your ***** feel just a little bit bigger somehow, that still isn't a good reason not to pay.
Note the keyword, feel.
My sarcasm detector did show some activity on your post. But sarcasm is so hard to pick up on typed forum posts sometimes. Your siggy is a damn funny btw.
EDIT:Also your name suggests a funny post too. Drew Peacock (geddit? Har Har). |
Necrologic
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Posted - 2005.09.19 06:29:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Necrologic on 19/09/2005 06:29:35
Originally by: Drew Peacock
Are you an accountant or a real man?
I'm sorry Drew but...
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/Necrologic/collinssig2.jpg
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Kuolematon
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Posted - 2005.09.19 07:56:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Redwolf
Do not believe this pirate propaganda.
Do not pay the man, he does not deserve it.
QFT!
Never ever pay to pirate (Why call 'em pirates? Real pirates deserved their name, EVE so called pirates are mere leeches preying weak targets and easy kills).
Never ever smack pirate
Never EVER send hatemail to pirate!!
If they get you, try to get away or bite your tongue and accept loss and try to save pod. Do NOT talk to pirates because it's the fuel that keep 'em going.
What comes to ransoms, how stupid can one be? Pay 10mil and pirate pops you and gets your stuff. They are NOT honorable! Never been, never will be because there is NO honor by preying weak victims and soft targets!!
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Even Ikvar agrees I'm an alt |
Liver Damage
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Posted - 2005.09.19 12:50:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Kuolematon
Originally by: Redwolf
Do not believe this pirate propaganda.
Do not pay the man, he does not deserve it.
QFT!
Never ever pay to pirate (Why call 'em pirates? Real pirates deserved their name, EVE so called pirates are mere leeches preying weak targets and easy kills).
Never ever smack pirate
Never EVER send hatemail to pirate!!
If they get you, try to get away or bite your tongue and accept loss and try to save pod. Do NOT talk to pirates because it's the fuel that keep 'em going.
What comes to ransoms, how stupid can one be? Pay 10mil and pirate pops you and gets your stuff. They are NOT honorable! Never been, never will be because there is NO honor by preying weak victims and soft targets!!
Sweeping generalisations ftw!
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Marconious
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Posted - 2005.09.19 13:00:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Cuty pie
U should never Ever pay ransom from stupid Pirates!
They will just be back the next day to do it again.
keep your pride!!!
U know what i agree just give me the kill mail and your pod instead my alt makes me enough money anyhows and when i'm done killing u i'll prolly just sell any good loot and refine the rest to go towards building another ship so the next time i see u i can kill u again... I mean if u where to pay me to stop podding u i guess that would mean u save your ship/kit out and pod and well thats just a lame idea dont u think 
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Verone
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Posted - 2005.09.19 13:49:00 -
[27]
This topic is laughable.
In the area I've been operating out of recently, I've ransomed every ship I've managed to catch. In the last 11 days, I've been declined a ransom ONCE.
Subsequently I have barely even made an impression on the Snigg killboard for the last fortnight, however, I am almost 200 million isk richer, and all but one person I've encoutered has left my grasp alive, with their ship and modules intact.
Before you come here, and troll this thread with statements like :
"don't pay the ransoms, you'll end up getting killed anyway"
"pirates are scum, don't pay them, they'll still kill you"
etc, remember one thing. A sucessful pirate builds his business on trust. If he kills after ransom, and people get to know about it, trust for him, and his business goes down the pan.
Trust is something that I personally pride myself on. If I say I'll release you, I do so once I've been paid.
MY NAME IS VERONE OF SNIGG, AND I'M GOING TO KILL YOU TILL YOU DIE FROM IT! |
Azrael Callidor
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Posted - 2005.09.19 13:56:00 -
[28]
To be fair, i wouldn't pay the ransom on principle - whether i trusted the pirate or not (usually not, though).
I could only see myself paying if in a particularly valuable ship... but you'd have to get me to submit first  Pods, never. I never use implants and most pirates ask for far too much - cheaper to go to the clone bay in most cases.
What Verone says is true, though, if the pirate has any respect for his reputation then he will let you go after you pay. Name and shame, if not. Remember, it's only the priciples of my character that would make him prefer to go down in flames and i know its an unnecessary money sink... but do what's best for yours..
---
AC
"I'm no terrorist! I'm a freedom fighter!" ;) |
Randuin MaraL
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Posted - 2005.09.19 15:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich
I would never pay a ransom, but hey that is just me
Agreed. Because ... what is wrong with losing a ship'n'implants?
Remember - a ships role "is" to explode. Period.
Allow the pirate to collect the loot - makes one happy, too, from time to time.
____________________________________________________
Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die.
MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner |
Pheo
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Posted - 2005.09.19 22:23:00 -
[30]
While I'd have to say that I consider Pirates only one step up from Gategankers and Orethieves their presence does add something to the game. IMHO Eve would be poorer experience without them.
I tend to not pay the ransom either because it's ridiculously high or cause I'm in a bad mood. One of the few times I did pay was with Snigg and a pilot called Drossk. He was perfectly polite, good natured and honoured his side of the agreement albeit he probably didn't get as much as he wished.
Whilst I'd love nothing better than to pod a few pirates I think the game is more fun with them in than if they were out. Gategankers and orethieves now they are real scum.
"Death to all Amari Scum"
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