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2manno Asp
The Imperial Fedaykin
Amarrian Commandos
256
   |
Posted - 2013.04.19 01:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
Mad Target wrote:Don't worry if you are set on Amarr. The gunnery support skills you learn for their weapon systems like Rapid Firing, Sharpshooter, Trajectory Analysis etc will be equally useful on projectiles and hybrids.
this is one of your only real benefits to training amarr. that the skills are applicable to other gun-types.
the other is that amarr battleships classes and above are actually good. ofc, you have to get there, and you actually have to have these kinds of fights. without both...
Mad Target wrote:Missiles are relatively simpler to fly since you don't need to worry about transversal or range (as much). But they generally do less damage than a good gunnery setup.
and missles will have much higher alpha. you can use eft or eve stats to guage how much damage your'e doing during a fight, but you'll usually be horribly mislead in actual applied dps.
drones don't apply dps as the stats say they do. turret ships suffer from tracking and range issues. alpha is significantly more important in shorter fights, and in larger fights.
trust what i said before, and i'll modify that a bit because it really was meant for you. in the current meta for sub bs class players, missles are almost always better than anything else you'd be using. throw in a tracking disruptor and/or damps and you're good to go. |
Mad Target
Crimson Collective
The Obsidian Cartel
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 05:58:00 -
[32] - Quote
Well, I'll stick around in Amarr FW regardless. While the isk is going to be lower than say Minmatar it seems very easy to get in to fights which I like.
Learned about the warp in point in fw plexes and how to use D-scan. If i'm set to fight in short range i'll sit on the warp in point ready to tackle and shoot once I see incoming on short range D-scan. Lost a couple more frigate fights but I was actually dealing damage and not being kited to death. I just couldn't deal enough damage soon enough. But what can I expect with such low skills.
Also managed to complete a few plexes and got a bit of LP. I'll be able to buy more ships now. Also now i'm able to use MWD and fit rigs. Gives me more options.
I'm wondering how CCP is going to change missile launchers in summer. It may change the balance between them and other types of weapons. |
YoYoMommy
Aideron Robotics
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 06:51:00 -
[33] - Quote
I also recently joined FW with a new amarr character so if you want some decent fits hit me up in eve mail and I can send you some for amarr fits. My favorite by far is the coercer if you are looking for sub-cruiser class ships for solo pvp. |
STSxLight
Corporate Scum
Test Alliance Please Ignore
24
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 07:32:00 -
[34] - Quote
- in the case you are already in the plex and he comes for you its simple, stay at 0 at the beacon with ab on and scram web overheat, whe he lands spam aproach lock him up and kill him, if you are quick you can catch all of them
- in the case he is in the plex and you want to come in, he has a clear advantage as he is a kiting ship starting from range , in this case you have a lot of examples already on this page
GL o7
"Oh, you think nullsec is your ally. But you merely adopted nullsec; I was born in it, moulded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but BLINDING!" |
The VC's
Spack Force 5
132
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 16:56:00 -
[35] - Quote
Rail Atron. T1 rails are pretty good and with the atrons falloff bonus fairly resistant to range disruption. If you are not td'd shoot thorium, if you are, shoot iron. The dps is weak but that kiting condor is unlikely to be tanked. You can get a decent AB/scram/web/repper/150mm Atron that fights at the edge of scram range with antimatter. Loading iron or thorium you can at the very least drive off a liking condor. Alternatively, swap to mwd rail and go at them. Their mwd will oblige you with a large sig radius for your rails to hit. My favourite method of killing kite condors is a mwd executioner. Burn towards them shooting scorch and when you get in range switch to conflag and give the the green death fait accompli, their large sig radius helping you again. The last thing people expect a kiting executioner to do is burn in close. |
Zyress
Weapons of Divine Temper
136
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 18:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
2manno Asp wrote:Mad Target wrote:2manno Asp wrote:Mad Target wrote:Hello everyone,
Let me start by saying i'm quite new here. I'm interested in FW and joined it yesterday. I believe Amarr need more numbers in the fight against Minmatar so i joined the golden fleets with lasers and stuff.
I tried running some novice plexes already and somehow everytime a kiting Condor would warp in and tackle me. I'm interested in fighting so I stayed the first time in my AB fit Punisher which was not fast enough and did not have the range to deal any damage. I died.
I came back with an Executioner (still AB fit, can't use MWD yet) and another kiting Condor appeared. I managed just to get out of disruptor range and warp off with my armor running low. I tried fitting beam lasers with radio ammo and still did not do much.
My fit is something like this:
Highs - 3x beams or pulse lasers
Mids - AB, web and scram
Lows - damage control, plate and a rep
Of course, there's the question of skillpoints too but it seems missiles have superior damage projection and they use target disruptors while kitting. What would you suggest to do if I'm solo and flying a T1 Amarr frigate?
I would rather stay but for now I just have to warp out before getting locked otherwise I simply die without even putting up a fight.
Any feedback appreciated! in the current meta, i suggest you stop training turret based ships immediately. that means dropping your amarr skill plan now. train anything that shoots missles. caldari is obvious, minmatar have some good missle boats too. the hardest counter to a td ship or damp ship, is a missle boat. they almost all have very long lock ranges and are immune to td's. also, if damped or even full-out jammed, you can always load auto-targeting missles. i suggest a lm fit kestrel. load up caldari navy mjolnir missles and let them fly. if he's lightly tanked as your experience suggests, 2-3 volleys will put him on the pod express. Want to thank everyone for advice and feedback! Did not expect to get this much of it. However the post above is a bit sad. I don't want to train for caldari or minmatar... I like to fight for Amarr and use lasers as my primary weapon. I will probably start flying slicers when i get more isk and skills and i will definitely give coercer a go. i understand your sentiment. i originally had an amarr char (see portrait). then i realized that amarr ships have a CRUSHING lack of midslots, and T2 minmatar ships have AMAZING EM resists. not to mention that anyone fighting you knows you will be shooting em and therm. thus, can more easily plot against it. it's a hard pill to swallow. at least it was for me. but the sooner you get on with it the better.
Basically this, flavor of the month comes around and goes around. Right now frigate class Amarr ships are at a disadvantage, they have a dearth of midslots for e-war relatively short range weapons with relatively poor tracking and no damage type selection. They rely exclusively on armor tanks (don't have the mids to shield tank) which makes them relatively slower than other races boats too. They get a bit better as you move into larger hulls but in war you adapt or you die. Cross training into other races weapon systems and ships is a fact of life in Eve. Autocannon Punishers are pretty common you can easily find a fit on Battle clinnic they have the advantage of selectable damage type longer range, better tracking and they don't use cap. Look them up and see what I mean. |
Perkin Warbeck
Amarrian Space Poodles
24eme Legion Etrangere
125
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 06:48:00 -
[37] - Quote
If you want to stick with Amarr then you should try the beam coercer. They can deal a lot of damage out to 30-40kms but you will need to train T2 guns. Just burn away from your opponent to maintain range and hope that you pop them before they notice they aren't pointed.
This is assuming that your opponent is not in a light missile, double damped condor with Loki boosts and Snakes. I met one recently that did 7.1km/sec, had a 40km point and dampened your range to below 19kms. Then the only thing to do is make yourself a nice cup of tea, comment profusely on your opponents 'close' relationship with his or her family in local and then post on an OGB thread near here.
Incidentally, beam coercers are so awesome that they cannot actually die (and any killmails including one are obviously faked). Fact. |
LadySansha Stark
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 09:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
Mad Target wrote:Hello everyone,
Let me start by saying i'm quite new here. I'm interested in FW and joined it yesterday. I believe Amarr need more numbers in the fight against Minmatar so i joined the golden fleets with lasers and stuff.
I tried running some novice plexes already and somehow everytime a kiting Condor would warp in and tackle me. I'm interested in fighting so I stayed the first time in my AB fit Punisher which was not fast enough and did not have the range to deal any damage. I died.
I came back with an Executioner (still AB fit, can't use MWD yet) and another kiting Condor appeared. I managed just to get out of disruptor range and warp off with my armor running low. I tried fitting beam lasers with radio ammo and still did not do much.
thanks for asking this question. i think we have the same thorn in our sides (a certain pornofan, who keeps warping into novice plexes in amarr south to pad his killboard with noob kills).
flying a dessie is really only a deterrent (and will probably just attract a different flavour of bully), but if it'll stop me bleeding punishers, i guess it's worth trying. |
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
Caldari State Capturing
371
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 10:06:00 -
[39] - Quote
2 kiting condors.
Fix this **** See Sea Pea. |
Bengal Bob
The Flowing Penguins
Iron Oxide.
107
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 11:55:00 -
[40] - Quote
Mad Target wrote:Well, I'll stick around in Amarr FW regardless. While the isk is going to be lower than say Minmatar it seems very easy to get in to fights which I like.
Learned about the warp in point in fw plexes and how to use D-scan. If i'm set to fight in short range i'll sit on the warp in point ready to tackle and shoot once I see incoming on short range D-scan. Lost a couple more frigate fights but I was actually dealing damage and not being kited to death. I just couldn't deal enough damage soon enough. But what can I expect with such low skills.
Also managed to complete a few plexes and got a bit of LP. I'll be able to buy more ships now. Also now i'm able to use MWD and fit rigs. Gives me more options.
I'm wondering how CCP is going to change missile launchers in summer. It may change the balance between them and other types of weapons.
You sir will not remain a militia scrub for long. To help you learn quicker I offer: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=233784
Swing by Arzad, or Tararan and I am sure that you will get an honourable 1v1 from an oxide pilot (if you ask first - otherwise km whoring will occur)
Welcome to FW and good luck. |
Taoist Dragon
State Protectorate
Caldari State
430
|
Posted - 2013.05.10 21:47:00 -
[41] - Quote
Keep flying Amarr ship mate.
They make you a better pilot in the long run.
I fly them and they are great, you just need to pick your tagets probably more than the other races.
For kiting/TD condors
Go with a MWD/Scram/WEB pulse executioner with a SAAR and get in their faces asap once they are scrammed they are dead.
That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
830
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 00:20:00 -
[42] - Quote
Fit an mwd brawler and hope he doesn't have links! \o/
BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!
|
Colt Blackhawk
The Amarrian Expendables
140
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 07:54:00 -
[43] - Quote
1. CCP has srewd the ship rabalancing completely. Why?
Because they should have fixed OGB first. They have complete bullsh... data as long as ogb isn-¦t fixed.
I agree that double damp condor with ogb is completely op. 36km point range, speed like hell, 2 damps are able to eat even sfi in a condor.
2. Without OGB everything is fine. Kiting with condor or kiter hook is really not easy. Run from all faster mwd scram frigates because they will loop you and kill you. Of course as long as the pilot is skilled.
Without OGB the kiter condor is more for tackling assault frigs and killing gundessies plus ab frigs.
Use a scram mwd atron, slasher or exec and condor will be eaten. Galmil uses atron effectively for condor kiling.
3. Actually CCP sees: OOOOOOH: Condor is op. It can eat sfi.
What these dumb...ses don-¦t see is that condor is okay... as long as it is not boosted.
Tbh boosted condor can eat almost EVERY dessie for breakfast and almost every other frigate for breakfast.
And here is the problem. The problem is ogb in combination with condor and not the condor.
4. The players are the problem too. Because it seems eve is full of psychopaths instead of people who want to play the game.
I once was in a fleet in Nennamaila and had boosts like hell. I killed in a condor a non boosted atron pilot. I saw this pilot earlier, he was really good and prefered 1vs1. After killing him I felt like a total idiot. He didn-¦t even had a small chance. It was butchery.
I was a lot faster, td, 36km point.
Without boosts he would have eaten me easily.
If there wouldn-¦t be the whole fleet several 100km away seeing me I would have even let him go maybe. It was dumb. Not a fight but idiotic butchery. I even wrote him an evemail after that what for an idiotic sh... that was and excused myself.
And that is the problem with eve: This game is full of psychopaths not searching for a good fight but for butchery.
People who will not take a ruppie vs ruppie fight but will reship to a cynabal and undock 2 ogb^^ |
feihcsiM
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
227
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 12:26:00 -
[44] - Quote
For Amarr ships a MWD/scram Executioner is probably your best bet as previously mentioned in the thread.
On saying that out of all the T1 frigs/destroyers an AB twin damp Maulus would be my choice for pissing off kitey LM Condors.
[Maulus -Dampy Dampy Cheeky Monkey]
[High Slots]
125mm Railgun II - Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
125mm Railgun II - Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
[Med Slots]
1MN Afterburner II
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I - Targeting Range Dampening Script
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I - Targeting Range Dampening Script
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
[Low Slots]
Small Ancillary Armor Repairer - Nanite Repair Paste
Signal Amplifier II
Damage Control II
[Rigs]
Small Ancillary Current Router I
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
Small Polycarbon / Locus rig / else
[Drones]
Hobgoblin II x 6
2.2k ehp. 123dps overheated
Purely anti-kite condor fit.
Get the damps on, load Spike ammo, sit still & plink away at him for about 40dps. Even with max skill Loki boosts he can't drop your lock range low enough to be a problem in return (Over 113km lock range on a max skill Maulus hull with Signal Amp II, so you still have a 42km lock range with twin scripted damps on you in return).
If he wants to lock you back a max skilled condor pilot will have to close to under 7.6km.
He has the choice of dying slowly at range, warping off, or closing to point blank to try to get a lock.
If he does come in close overheat the scram & AB and tackle him, deploy drones and load antimatter, burn out to orbit at 8km (outside his lock range). With an overheated AB you are still faster than his base speed even when you are webbed and once his lock drops you can stop overloading the AB.
If he happens to have an overdrive or boosts and a web he will be faster than you and can choose to either risk brawling it out in his lower dps, fragile ship or pull out of scram range and escape. Otherwise he's toast.
It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine. |
Ayuren Aakiwa
Perkone
Caldari State
70
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 15:21:00 -
[45] - Quote
dual prop malediction with scram is perfect fr murdering condors. Also you can use a personal favorite of mine the nano fire tail with 2x 250 arty and a lml. med shield extender/nanos etc etc. If you are good at flying fast frigates that firetail can outrun most kiting ships that don't have ogb and essentially kill anything. Only a fully speed fit dramiel or ogb ceptor would be able to match that things speed.
pew pew 24/7 |
Major Killz
189
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 15:36:00 -
[46] - Quote
Use something with light missiles or long range turret ships. Rails with spike or artillery with Proton does the job unless you're dealing with dual td's. Which would suck. Those Condor set-ups explode fairly quickly to any swift breeze.
- Killz |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance
119
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 16:53:00 -
[47] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:A faster ship with a scram, and more dps. Which means every other T1 attack frigate.
there is nothing faster than a scared loki linked condor pilot. NOTHING |
Zen Guerrilla
CTRL-Q
Iron Oxide.
39
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 11:49:00 -
[48] - Quote
If you happen to sit in a plex and he is comming in, any AB/web/scram frigate can and will catch a condor if you practice a little. But if he is boosted, he will most likely slowboat out of scram range and get away.
So incase someone thinks he needs boosts to do frigate pvp, warp out and deny him the fight.
pew pew |
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Pixel Navigators
38
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 20:43:00 -
[49] - Quote
Best way to deal with kiting condors is to just not engage against kiting condors. |
Desiderya
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security
Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
320
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 14:22:00 -
[50] - Quote
Light Missiles work. Speed works. The Condor has a limited range, unless it sacrifices rig slots for it. When both frigates are moving at 2.5k + it's not uncommon to 'miss' with missiles even at vastly smaller ranges, unless the condor is the one being chased.
That aside, in a fast ship the brute force 'Han overheated first' can be enough if the fight starts at the usual 20km. The Condor is the slowest of the 't1 interceptor' lineup, so finding something that is faster is not quite that hard.
Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. |
Clive Stratton
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 07:38:00 -
[51] - Quote
Condors aren't hard to kill.
|
Zappity
Kurved Space
82
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:35:00 -
[52] - Quote
Clive Stratton wrote:Condors aren't hard to kill.
Wow, that was a tremendously helpful contribution.
I have found that you can catch the buggers in a fast Incursus by slingshot (if they aren't linked). But a Punisher? Still unconvinced. An Executioner should have no trouble and they can pack a punch.
I watched a Condor engage an autocannon Thrasher today. He melted before he got to range which was extremely satisfying.
I don't like Condors very much.
Hooray, I'm l33t! -á(Kil2: "The higher their ship losses...the better they're going to be.") |
Clive Stratton
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.15 09:52:00 -
[53] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Clive Stratton wrote:Condors aren't hard to kill.
Wow, that was a tremendously helpful contribution. I have found that you can catch the buggers in a fast Incursus by slingshot (if they aren't linked). But a Punisher? Still unconvinced. An Executioner should have no trouble and they can pack a punch. I watched a Condor engage an autocannon Thrasher today. He melted before he got to range which was extremely satisfying. I don't like Condors very much.
Or you could read the thread and realise that there are many ways to kill a condor. |
Ixpha
Spectral Technology
8
|
Posted - 2013.05.16 12:36:00 -
[54] - Quote
Zen Guerrilla wrote:If you happen to sit in a plex and he is comming in, any AB/web/scram frigate can and will catch a condor if you practice a little. But if he is boosted, he will most likely slowboat out of scram range and get away.
So incase someone thinks he needs boosts to do frigate pvp, warp out and deny him the fight.
easier said than done when you cannot know if the person is boosted or not untill you see speed/point range ect, by that time its usually too late if you already have him pointed and him slowboating his way out. |
Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
331
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 12:23:00 -
[55] - Quote
Ixpha wrote:easier said than done when you cannot know if the person is boosted or not untill you see speed/point range ect, by that time its usually too late if you already have him pointed and him slowboating his way out.
A scramed+webed condor won't slowboat anywhere.
And usually, anything with a MWD is enough to catch a condor. |
Daedricbob
Sons Of 0din
The Unthinkables
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 12:56:00 -
[56] - Quote
Attack frig + MWD + guns + scram + Pilot with LG snakes & Zor's = Pop. |
Zen Guerrilla
CTRL-Q
Iron Oxide.
43
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 19:46:00 -
[57] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Ixpha wrote:easier said than done when you cannot know if the person is boosted or not untill you see speed/point range ect, by that time its usually too late if you already have him pointed and him slowboating his way out. A scramed+webed condor won't slowboat anywhere. And usually, anything with a MWD is enough to catch a condor.
A scrammed, webbed condor WILL get out of your web/scram range if he is boosted. Trust me. Even without boosts, i need to overload web/scram/ab to keep them from getting away.
And an MWD won't help much if you're still slower than a condor.
pew pew |
Haulie Berry
735
|
Posted - 2013.05.17 21:13:00 -
[58] - Quote
Quote:A scrammed, webbed condor WILL get out of your web/scram range if he is boosted. Trust me. Even without boosts, i need to overload web/scram/ab to keep them from getting away.
You're daft.
Boosts apply to AB/MWD velocity - not base speed.
Anything AB fit with a scram will trivially outrun them with no prop. |
STSxLight
Corporate Scum
Test Alliance Please Ignore
24
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 08:16:00 -
[59] - Quote
hello dear pilot o7
i tend to fly the executioner very often fighting FW people with succes
FIT "scram kite exe"
3x dual light pulse II
abII
meta web
meta scram
400 plate
damage control II
heat sink II
rigs : 2 ancilar and 1 damage rig
i like this ship very much as its fast, good damage projecion and a lot of people will underestimate you and you will get more fights
its a powerfull ship as you can kill incursus, merlins, imp navy slicers, condors, slasers, firetails ,comets, atrons, other executioners ofc fit some and go nuts :)
now killing kiters is basicaly a tactical maneuver.....you ALWAYS wait for them in a plex at o at the beacon, have ab on web scram overheated, when they land spawm aproach and lock, you will catch most of them and kill them.
never warp in a plex where there is a kiting ship in it already because he starts with a advantage, and a good kiting pilot that also manual flies will always evade the slingshot
the idea is to make them come into you
now about tracking, you will have trouble tracking fast drones, you will need to web them to hit good so dont engage drone ships only when you master the executioner
as you have a plate, no armor rigs, and the new skills for armor you will be fast and can disengage at will
your main tactice is ofc use scorch and keep at range 7,5 8 km
slasher will still be able to close in on you so when it gets close imp navy multifreq is your friend, never use conflag as it has **** tracking
its a realy nice ship, god a lot of nice kills with it, and i use it every time i can, you can send me a eve mail for for info about targets that you can kill
"i hated amarr, but then i discoverd scorch "
Fly dangerous o7
"Oh, you think nullsec is your ally. But you merely adopted nullsec; I was born in it, moulded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but BLINDING!" |
Zen Guerrilla
CTRL-Q
Iron Oxide.
43
|
Posted - 2013.05.18 12:14:00 -
[60] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Quote:A scrammed, webbed condor WILL get out of your web/scram range if he is boosted. Trust me. Even without boosts, i need to overload web/scram/ab to keep them from getting away. You're daft. Boosts apply to AB/MWD velocity - not base speed. Anything AB fit with a scram will trivially outrun them with no prop. I guess we could "trust you" but you don't seem to have the first ******* clue what you're talking about. The base velocity of a Condor, at all 5s, with no prop, is 500 m/s. Even with a HG snake set, it only goes to 620ish, and with a T2 web applied, it's about 250. If they are outrunning you while webbed/scrammed, there are one of two possibilities: 1. They have a weird-ass dualprop + web fit. 2. You have a terminal case of the bads. Even with dualprop, HG snakes, and boosts, you're only talking about 800m/s, ballpark.
Well hello there, dumb alt. \o
That a ship with ab+scram or web+scram or any similiar combination is faster than a condor without the MWD is pretty obvious, thanks so much for telling me.
Let me elaborate what i actually meant:
I was talking about catching a condor that lands RIGHT ON TOP of you. While you lock him, he has time enough to cycle the MWD and pick up speed before the scram shuts the MWD off. Thanks to a magical internet spaceship thing called inertia, he has a pretty good chance he can still get out of web/scram range due to the top speed of a boosted condor.
pew pew |
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