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Talhlia
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Posted - 2003.07.29 22:49:00 -
[1]
When I need to travel long distances doing this really speeds my travels...now you no longer allow us to do this?
Please, please allow us to continue to MWD out of warp.
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.29 23:05:00 -
[2]
I don't think you were ever supposed to be able to do this. When I started, you couldn't, and that was okay then. It'll only add 5-15 seconds per gate, if they're not insta jump already.
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Derkan
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Posted - 2003.07.29 23:15:00 -
[3]
Well maybe it will force the pirates to become better space thugs. Camping gates are lame. Anyone with a ship and a laser cannon can camp a gate. Come on guys. You pirates are better than this
Derkan.
http://eve-coldfusion.com |
Macumba
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Posted - 2003.07.29 23:23:00 -
[4]
Excellent. Bring on the zerg. Anyone with any sense will travel in packs now that CCP are removing the one way to escape gate campers.
I think pirates can consider this their free money patch.
"PVP = griefing" Papa Smurf |
Talhlia
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Posted - 2003.07.29 23:27:00 -
[5]
5-15 seconds x 30 jumps = 150-450 seconds = 2.5-7.5 minutes more to travel 30 jumps.
Additionally NPC pirates at gates will be able to do more damage.
As for the PC pirates I would think they would like this change since they now have 5-15 more seconds to destroy their prey.
I haven't tried to see if you can still AB out of warp.
Really I don't see the problem, I mean you are declerating...why do you have to goto 0m/s before you can reacclerate at impulse power.
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.29 23:42:00 -
[6]
derkan, there are four places to pirate in this game: gates, belts, planets, and stations.
you'd get ****ed if pirates camped stations too. Nobody goes to planets. This leaves only roid belts. Great. Ore.
there is little choice if you want to rob somebody at the moment. Unless you know of a way I could trick people into meeting me at a planet?
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Doc Brown
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Posted - 2003.07.29 23:57:00 -
[7]
You pirates seem to forget.. those 5-15 seconds make the difference between life and death for us MWD users.
Don't forget.. by having them on we get -50% shield capacity (and still have a long recharge time) and -25% capacitor (still with the standard recharge).
Now you want an extra 5-15 seconds? What for.. oh yea. you want time becuase that's all it'll take for us MWD users to be blow away (and possibly poded too).
_________________________________________________
There are no bad ideas, only bad implementations. |
Talhlia
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Posted - 2003.07.30 00:01:00 -
[8]
Yep...so basically who in their right mind would use a MWD now?
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.30 00:03:00 -
[9]
does it really not occur to people that instead of installing a device that shreds your shields, you could install afterburners and a shield hardener? Or maybe ECM equipment.
If I'm not mistaken you pretty much use all your power running an MWD on most indy's. Do you think they were really designed for it?
adapt people. pirates constantly get the line in the sand pushed back, and they adapt and overcome. Be strong. Stand Tall. Etc.
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Derkan
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Posted - 2003.07.30 00:36:00 -
[10]
Mmm Roids. Maybe you space invaders can do something productive for a change. eh??
hehehe..
Again you guys are to good for bloackades. You to will have to change when the game starts to change. I do like it when you bums camp gates with 5 cruisers and I'm flying a indy. 5 guns ships against one unarmmed indy and then when some decent pirate hunters come along and out number you 3 to 1 you run like little girls. Atleast you have weapons to defend yourself. Indy pilots having nothing except the MWD and maybe 150 shields.
I hope in the coming months it will make it impossible for a pirates like yourselves to escape the bounty hunters. Maybe be then you'll live up to your name sake.
Again some pirate corps are far different then others. I'm not saying all pirate corps are the same.
Derkan.
http://eve-coldfusion.com |
StealthNet
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Posted - 2003.07.30 00:40:00 -
[11]
MWDs were nerfed because of that.
If you cannot drop from warp full speed, then unerf it. at least some, its a natural action. If you are a freelancer or a lonely voyager, now you *don't* have *any* means of escaping a good blockade: if you get locked, you will get scrambled, webbied and jammed, no matter what you do, period.
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Jarjar
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Posted - 2003.07.30 01:05:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Jarjar on 30/07/2003 01:06:22
 Quote:
Excellent. Bring on the zerg. Anyone with any sense will travel in packs now that CCP are removing the one way to escape gate campers.
I think pirates can consider this their free money patch.
Yay, another nerf to playing solo. I'm soo happy, now they're forcing me to join a 50+ members corp with members always wanting to go with me even to dead-end systems 60 jumps away, or what?
Seriously. There are two ways of dying of gatecamping pirates.
1) Running for the gate instead of running (warping) away
2) Not paying attention using the autopilot.
As soon as you see pirates at a gate - warp away again. They can't lock you if you warp again fast enough (about 10 secs). Also, you should have a clue they're there already, by checking the map stats + the local channel. |
Derkan
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Posted - 2003.07.30 01:09:00 -
[13]
Well that would be great but the local chat and the map seemed to be bugged 50% of the time so I don't what to tell you.
Derkan
http://eve-coldfusion.com |
Entity
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Posted - 2003.07.30 01:13:00 -
[14]
For 100 mil isk I offer a decoding chart that displays exactly what way the devs swing (in terms of piracy vs carebear), it involves the phase of the moon, the average temperature in Iceland for the past 4 days and how much whining has been done on the forums.
Seriously now, the poor MWD is now nerfed to the point of being completely useless. At least now it still was good for long travels, but big ships like bestowers and battleships take godawful long to accelerate from 0 speed, completely negating the point of the MWD because you can't even reach max speed over the distance from the warp-in point and the gate.
Perhaps this "fix" would have been good if the game didn't lag you to kingdom come when you drop out of warp. (HINT)
Summary:
1. MWD nerfed to death.
2. Only means of evening out the lag advantage pirates have, when warping to a gate, now removed.
3. Inability to "unhug" yourself from an asteroid or LCO after initiating warp.
Now, if the MWD would only apply its penalty WHEN IT IS ACTIVE, it would be much less bad, and make more sense. but we can't have stuff make sense now, do we?
Oh and a little note and warning to CCP:
I stopped playing counterstrike since Beta 6.1 because after that they completely altered the physics of the game making it impossible for me to play as I used to. It effectively became a new game and everyone had to learn to play again. CS is still one hell of a good game, but it's no longer the game I enjoyed.
Now, fortunately, this is not quite the case with EVE yet, but it's certainly headed that way with all the constant major changes to the game mechanics.
Changes like these are normally sorted out in the BETA STAGE, but then, this is Paid Beta 8 isn't it?
Sorry for the slightly sarcastic tone, but it's late, i'm tired, and even more tired of all the amazingly stupid nerfs without thinking of the consequences.
(I could write a book about how to "exploit" the new gate/station lockout thing too but Ill save you the rant)
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qrac
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Posted - 2003.07.30 01:59:00 -
[15]
Quote:
you'd get ****ed if pirates camped stations too. Nobody goes to planets. This leaves only roid belts. Great. Ore.
that's bs.. i went to asteroid belts in 0.0 space and passively scanned a lot of ppl... and guess what... LOTS of cu vapors, rare weapons and other rare modules.
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Insanes numquam moriuntur! |
Xyber
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Posted - 2003.07.30 02:15:00 -
[16]
Oh boy CU Vapours, what exactly is a pirate to do with those, oh wait we can sell them, only thing is no one really trades with pratesthese days, so well loooks like us pirates get a nice trophy of cu vapours to hang on the wall assuming tey don't blowup with the ship.
--- Sig ---
We've all dealt with it. In-game customer support. You would think that by now game companies might start to clue into the fact that a player whose run into a problem is already in a bad mood. So why design a support system around just ****ing them off all the more?
-Luke "Biscosity" Burkett |
StealthNet
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Posted - 2003.07.30 05:59:00 -
[17]
Edited by: StealthNet on 30/07/2003 05:59:59
Oh, thats so difficult to trade with an alt...
At 3 mil I think selling CUs are worth it. Don't you think ?
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.07.30 06:21:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Oh boy CU Vapours, what exactly is a pirate to do with those, oh wait we can sell them, only thing is no one really trades with pratesthese days, so well loooks like us pirates get a nice trophy of cu vapours to hang on the wall assuming tey don't blowup with the ship.
Heh...I'll take CUs off your hands at 1m each. But you meet on my terms, not yours. Call me sane, but I just don't trust ya
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Xelios
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Posted - 2003.07.30 06:57:00 -
[19]
Lets not forget normal AB's. Accelerating with an LiF AB to the new top speed takes 30 seconds in my Rupture, by the time you reach the top speed you're already at the gate.
Also, not being able to engage MWD before exiting warp will make running blockades almost impossible. Your MWD will now do you little good while you're waiting for EVE to generate the hordes of drones pirates now use to lag people exiting warp. By the time you get the environment loaded it doesn't matter if you activate your MWD, because you'll be locked, stasis'd and most likely destroyed by the time you reach your top speed.
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.30 08:26:00 -
[20]
Edited by: drunkenmaster on 30/07/2003 08:27:21
Oddly enough, while testing this, and the new gate security on chaos last night, I was chased down by the police.
My MWD was rendered near-useless, but I made it through the two jumps where I was paying attention, then when I looked up, I had about 3-4 seconds grace, and hit the MWD too late. I got roasted. And this would have continued through every system I visited for god knows how long, I returned in a bantam, and lost that too, even after I podkilled myself halfway across the empire.
So non-pvp types are not the only ones who are going to have a hard time.
better still, lets wait and see what it's actually like, then make comments after.
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Macumba
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Posted - 2003.07.30 09:00:00 -
[21]
JarJar, I was being sarcastic, it's difficult to tell on the internet I know, but who realistically is going to want to babysit their indys every time they log on?
This is just another example of the sledgehammer tactics employed by CCP when it comes to fixing things. Now that the pirates have whined loud enough CCP have stepped in and made it ridiculously easy to blockade. People warping into an area are already at a disadvantage, why take the **** further by not allowing them to leave warp at full speed? In fact, sod it, lets go back to beta when there were no invulnerability timers at all. Then the pirates can stop camping gates and start camping jump-in points and destroy people before they're even in sync with the new system. That way they can get another "notch on the bedpost" kill, a damp patch in their pants and whatever loot the ship drops.
Blockading a gate should be hard. It was fine as it was before, pirates were killing the slow, the stupid and the unwary. Just as they should. If they cry about not being able to make gazillions of ISK every day then tough ****, it's a niche profession and most of them don't do it for the money anyway, they do it for the thrill of ****ing people off.
Acceleration time vs invulnerability period vs lock time vs distance to gate. All you have to do is find a gate in a high traffic area that has a long warp-in point and you've got a guaranteed ISK factory. Throw in a few scorpions and the fact that there is no counter to being webified and itĘs FUN FUN FUN!
The jumping and docking timers don't matter either. If they're camping in 0.0 systems then they mean jack. They might stop people from attacking people in 1.0 space, but I doubt it.
Stopping people from leaving warp at full speed (whether AB or MWD) is stupid, and you'll see a lot of people complaining about being ganked if it's left in. This is the sort of thing never tested properly on Chaos, as Chaos is seen by most people as a place to test your loadouts or get some combat practice in. Alterations that have a huge impact on the game are never tested, they're just thrown into the mix and if they don't work (like the lockdown of Empire space) then they're glossed over.
Please stop the sledgehammer fixes.
"PVP = griefing" Papa Smurf |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.30 09:25:00 -
[22]
I tested it on chaos. it works fine. Just means you might need to make a couple of bookmarks, and occasionally look at the screen.
you act like there's gonna be an assault at every gate. (like neg sec people get in empire space) 8-10 bookmarks will easily open up half the universe.
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Praetorion
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Posted - 2003.07.30 09:26:00 -
[23]
This change is just bad for business, real business.
1) It breaks the work around for the "waddle to warp" bug.
2) It breaks the work around for "stuck on station" bug.
3) It makes travel even MORE tedious and time consuming.
4) It makes gate keeping all the easier for PC pirates. This in turn means even more victims to k3wl d00d gate camp3rs.
So to recap, you are introducing 4 major sources of rage, anger and frustration to your player base. You are improving the game ... how? By making griefers life a little easier?
Bottom line, the majority of your paying player base hates this change for 1 or all of the above reasons and they see no improvement to the game in return. This isn't a nerf to MWD's, it's a nerf to CCP's own Corp wallet if it goes live.
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lickspittle
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Posted - 2003.07.30 09:31:00 -
[24]
The only reason you were able to activate anything during warp up to this time was to give you a chance to use self-defense modules when the warp away from a location took too long to kick in and you couldn't use your weapons back at npc pirates.
The shield booster and shield hardener modules can still be used during warp to solve this problem.
-- Richard
CCP Programmer. Anything said above is not the official line, but my own take or opinion. |
Endyl
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Posted - 2003.07.30 10:17:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Endyl on 30/07/2003 10:23:44
>I tested it on chaos. it works fine. Just
>means you might need to make a couple of
>bookmarks
I often see this reply, am I the only one to not have personalised bookmarks for every gate of every system I travel trough ?
Sound scary, if you say there's 500 solar systems * about 3 gates per system * about 3 bases per system, that make a total of 4500 bookmarks... Fine :)
IMHO the true solution is BUY A FASTER COMPUTER SO THE ZONE LOAD FASTER.
I play often with friends sitted just near me, I compare my perfs with his often too, since we do races every time we move from a system to another.
He got a way fastert computer (P4 3 Ghz/Gforce4 vs P4 1.6 Ghz/Gforce 3) he win about 2-3 seconds jump time and about 1-2 seconds on warp in a standard area with no cans and stuff (on a 16 Mbit/s VDSL connection).
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Glowing Star
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Posted - 2003.07.30 10:34:00 -
[26]
I think I need to stress this, as ccp is going to get a lot of stuck reports suddenly.
I am repeatedly getting stuck to stations, both when I lunch and enter autopilot too soon. And when I happen to arrive in a new solar system on top of a staiton (which is great if I want to dock). By the time I have noticed i am stuck warp has been actived by the auto pilot.. Now usally I have the microwarp drive on me, and activating it gets me unstuck in 10seconds rather than 10minutes it sometimes takes without one.
Please fix this bug before you activate your microwarp changes, simply having a Cancel warp option will do the trick, as I can manually steer away from the object before warping.
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PropanElgen
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Posted - 2003.07.30 11:33:00 -
[27]
Edited by: PropanElgen on 30/07/2003 11:33:53
Quote:
The only reason you were able to activate anything during warp up to this time was to give you a chance to use self-defense modules when the warp away from a location took too long to kick in and you couldn't use your weapons back at npc pirates.
The shield booster and shield hardener modules can still be used during warp to solve this problem.
Even if the MWD out of warp wasn't intended, the result of removing this is that going past blockades will be alot harder.
So you are helping the greifers and hurting the vast majority of players.
If you actually do this, then at least make some changes to the 50% loss of shield and 25% loss of cap when fitting MWD.
Don't be surprised if lots of ppl cancel their accounts over this.
All the angels and the puny men of god looked away...
Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
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GALAGA
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Posted - 2003.07.30 12:31:00 -
[28]
Lickspittle,
When you are stuck next to a roid and activate warp, it automatically subtracts the cap needed to make the warp.
On a long jump, that will not leave much cap to run the sheild hardeners for very long, if they will activate at all.
So you will only get many frustrated players sitting there helpless while they watch NPC or players destroy their ships.
Seems that the only support that you have for this change is by Drunkenmaster and other player pirates who are going to have a real advantage by it.
I have gotten stuck next to many stations also, and without my afterburners or MWD I would never have gotten free without relogging.
But then again, if I relogged, half of my items would be offline when I came back online so that would be double jeapordy.
Not something you want to do in a system far from a station to refitt your modules.
P.S. I trained for 3 weeks and spent 10 mill for jump drive skills and it is the only skill you can buy and not use. Why don't you work on that instead? (Unless you are working on a good nerf for jump drives)
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"The Light shineth in the darkness, and the darkness comprehended it not." |
Mitchman
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Posted - 2003.07.30 12:31:00 -
[29]
Quote:
usally I have the microwarp drive on me, and activating it gets me unstuck in 10seconds rather than 10minutes it sometimes takes without one.
Log off for 2 minutes and you will be standing still next to the station, and not in warp anymore.
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Aelita
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Posted - 2003.07.30 12:44:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Aelita on 30/07/2003 12:52:06
Quote:
Quote:
usally I have the microwarp drive on me, and activating it gets me unstuck in 10seconds rather than 10minutes it sometimes takes without one.
Log off for 2 minutes and you will be standing still next to the station, and not in warp anymore.
WOW! That's stupid advice. May be this change is even more stupid.
I want to see that stupid person who will leave his ship two minutes in space. This game warp-in BUG is terrible as is. I'd report it zillions times because you are vulnerable to attacks but you are in warp so you can do nothing, nada, zero.
Until this bug will not be fixed leave activation for modules in warp as is because this is our last chance to avoid this bug. Bug were reported at least three months ago so why isn't fixed yet?
CCP developers aren't competent or so? Don't give us those kind incompetent explanations please.
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