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Waywatcher
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Posted - 2005.09.21 01:01:00 -
[1]
CCP over time have introduced nice new stuff to play with and at the same time altered things for us to learn to use again and for that im sure most peeps are happy, there are a few things which i would love to see and think would improve eve greatly...... first of all is PVP, now i know all the lame as griefers will post stuff like "I make billions from popping ships blah blah" i think we all know this isnt true (i know there are always exceptions) i think whats needed is wreckage! lets have blown up ships leaving wreckage that can be taken back to stations..... maybe in a new class of ship (Tug maybe?) and recycled to recover either components or minerals. Also lets make fights last longer, many times a fight between multiple bs or smaller ships can be over in seconds which makes combat less fun and less tactical. I dont see why maybe hitpoints could be increased?
Second is consistancy, I as im sure many of you guys fly HACs or smaller ships in combat which is fine, CCP have made changes over time to make different ships good in different situations. Long are gone the days when a bs hit frigs just as much as it hit a bs. Now heres were the consistancy comes in.... why change mods such as turrets/launchers/ECM and so on to make the smaller ships have advantages and not change nos and neuts? i just dont get it..... basically as Hanns sig explains is that a bs with a nos or 2 is going to paralise most HACs, all that needs to be changed is a fall off and optimum as most mods seem to have nowadays.
Just a few quick grumbles and ideas.... please feel free to suggest others or maybe disagree with me |
Waywatcher
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Posted - 2005.09.21 01:01:00 -
[2]
Oh and ban noob alts they do my **** in! |
Famine Aligher'ri
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Posted - 2005.09.21 01:18:00 -
[3]
I suggested ship wreckage awhile ago. Mainly for pirates who pirate in belts because obviously mining gear isn't worth nothing. So maybe a new skill to refine ship wreckage could be in order. Don't see it happening to much. I think it is because it's so easy to just gate camp in low security empire and pop ships. But that's just an assaumption.
-Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri
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Arnov Karsoth
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Posted - 2005.09.21 02:01:00 -
[4]
or why not make NOS work in another way.
heavy nos vs frigate = 20% effectiveness
heavy nos vs cruiser = 40% effective
heavy nos vs battleship = 60% effective
medium nos vs Frigate = 40% effective
medium nos vs cruiser = 60% effective
medium nos vs Battleship = 80% effective
small nos vs frigate = 60% effective
small nos vs cruiser = 75% effective
small nos vs battleship 90% effective
or something like that + a modifier for the skill that is needed for using the vampire modules
and the lenght of battles are mainly shortened by the amount of dmg all guns do nowadays.
why not instead of modify the hitpoints remove alot of the dmg output overall by all the guns
that would keep the balance we got in hitpoints today but lenghten the battles.
the npc dmg output would be needed to to be lowered accordingly also as the player dmg output would be lowered also.
id love to see a battle take 3-5min instead of 20-40sec as it is sometimes today.
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Vydek Daamth
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Posted - 2005.09.21 02:29:00 -
[5]
Waywatcher I remember you putting this idea up over a year ago. :)
I think the problem with wreckage is if you make it just as easy to get mins from blowing up ships as it is to mine..who would mine?
I mean really what your asking for is to have weapons work like mining lasers...or did I read you first paragraph wrong?
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Necrologic
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Posted - 2005.09.21 02:49:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Necrologic on 21/09/2005 02:49:15
 Quote:
Second is consistancy, I as im sure many of you guys fly HACs or smaller ships in combat which is fine, CCP have made changes over time to make different ships good in different situations. Long are gone the days when a bs hit frigs just as much as it hit a bs. Now heres were the consistancy comes in.... why change mods such as turrets/launchers/ECM and so on to make the smaller ships have advantages and not change nos and neuts? i just dont get it..... basically as Hanns sig explains is that a bs with a nos or 2 is going to paralise most HACs, all that needs to be changed is a fall off and optimum as most mods seem to have nowadays.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=215223
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Jex Jast
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Posted - 2005.09.21 02:50:00 -
[7]
What first paragraph? Isn't the whole thing a "fisrt paragraph"?
I don't see much problem in wreckage, obviously it shouldn't provide 80% of the mins the ship was made with, or else mining would reduce (but not disappear, many people don't want to fight, period).
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2005.09.21 07:58:00 -
[8]
1) Thanks for making my eyes bleed
2) Why is this in crime and punishment? Lack of punctuation is distasteful, but it's not a crime.
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ASIV TRE
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Posted - 2005.09.21 08:15:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
1) Thanks for making my eyes bleed
2) Why is this in crime and punishment? Lack of punctuation is distasteful, but it's not a crime.
Have you seen some of the other threads here? like the new implants whats that doing in C&P, some people seem to like posting off topic stuff here.
Dont like the nos thing though, it would mean an assault frig would have hardly any problems tanking and killing a BS
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Mardonius
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Posted - 2005.09.21 08:52:00 -
[10]
Originally by: ASIV TRE
Dont like the nos thing though, it would mean an assault frig would have hardly any problems tanking and killing a BS
I think I remember reading in the manual somewhere that battleships were the largest and most versatile ships; Not that they should be able to own anything and everything smaller with no problems.
I also remember watching a video where a battleship was set-up to gank elite frigates. He had medium guns fitted, and at least two webs, if I remember correctly. It was complete carnage. He took out about 5 or 6 elite frigates without breaking a sweat.
Battleships are capable of almost anything, so you can hardly whine that they have would have problems with frigates if Nosferatus were reworked. Just fit a webber and some *gasp* med/small rails and bob's your uncle.
I think it's about time combat became more tactical. What's wrong with a frigate taking out a battleship if the battleship isn't set-up and exposes a weakness? Battleships should have to fit for specific roles, anti-cruiser, anti-frig, fleet warfare, anti-bs etc. If a battleship can easily take out anything smaller in PvP, then the smaller ships become obsolete. Do you see the problem? Everyone would only battleships so long as they could afford them. At the moment the Heavy Nosferatu problem is a real issue because it is a "win button" against smaller ships.
Necrologic's topic expands on this issue in much more detail. |
dantes inferno
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Posted - 2005.09.21 11:54:00 -
[11]
Edited by: dantes inferno on 21/09/2005 11:54:06
"first of all is PVP, now i know all the lame as griefers will post stuff like "I make billions from popping ships blah blah" i think we all know this isnt true (i know there are always exceptions) i think whats needed is wreckage! lets have blown up ships leaving wreckage that can be taken back to stations"
my only problem with this idea is quite simply the extra strain on the server, if the wrecks had a lastibility of a hour or 2..how much ships get destroyed in eve during that hour or two? so how much wrecks could be left abandoned especialy if you consider fleet battles which are already a pain in the ass lag wise..this would make them a nightmare
"Also lets make fights last longer, many times a fight between multiple bs or smaller ships can be over in seconds which makes combat less fun and less tactical. I dont see why maybe hitpoints could be increased?"
yes please for the love of god either increase HP or make the stacking of damage mods impossible...but do sommethign to make a fight last more than mere seconds
"Second is consistancy, I as im sure many of you guys fly HACs or smaller ships in combat which is fine, CCP have made changes over time to make different ships good in different situations. Long are gone the days when a bs hit frigs just as much as it hit a bs. Now heres were the consistancy comes in.... why change mods such as turrets/launchers/ECM and so on to make the smaller ships have advantages and not change nos and neuts?"
no its fine as it is...the bs aint a "i win" button against frigs as turrets have a hell of a time hitting them and missiles do bugger all damage to them, having the nos/neut still gives a bs a defence against the smaller ship, these mods dont do damage and reduce the ships damage capabilites but at least will give a bs some survivability (im using frigs as an example as it was a situation i ran into lastnight...but my point is relevant in some degree to cruiser vs bs and frigs vs cruisers)
" i just dont get it..... basically as Hanns sig explains is that a bs with a nos or 2 is going to paralise most HACs,"
paralise..yes, destroy...no. the nos will just give the bs a better chance of surviving against the smaller class (though we dont want the bs to wtfpwn every smaller class ship....but at the same time we dont want the bs helpless against smaller class ships..and nos do have limited range..so it isnt totaly unbeatable) and remember the bs will be trading some of its dmg output to fit the nos
_____
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FooB2
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Posted - 2005.09.21 11:54:00 -
[12]
if it aint broke, dont fix it.
_______________________________________________
"Weyaye like, hinny" |
Waywatcher
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Posted - 2005.09.21 15:10:00 -
[13]
Lack of punctuation? you having a laugh? u reply on forums to have a go about punctuation? you should find something better to do.
As for the wreckage i dont see it putting any strain on the servers.... it would have to stay for long, and when refined wouldnt have to give a great mineral yeild. |
Weeman
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Posted - 2005.09.21 15:24:00 -
[14]
There are thousands of npc and player loot cans out there for a couple of hours at a time i dont think they are placing a huge strain on the server.
The fact of the matter is its very difficult to make isk once you get -5, its hard enough to get equip etc because if you're any good as a pirate organisation you will drive 90% of manufacturing out of the area. There are too many negatives.
As for the Heavy Nos this is pretty simple. If you're in a HAC you have to avoid Domi's and Typhoons. Its a win button for these ships. Admittedly only in certain roles but even still, if you cant get them jammed you're going to go down even if the pilots a tard.
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Berneh
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Posted - 2005.09.21 19:01:00 -
[15]
i love ways idea and i think it should be put in immediatly, i'll read his post tommorow but for now i have faith in his judgement.
all my love bern
Originally by: Oveur (at the eve radio party 05)
You havent seen anything yet
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Jacxx
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Posted - 2005.09.21 20:40:00 -
[16]
Why not just have the wreckage be another item in the cargo container? Just have random amounts of "Wreckage" of diffrent sizes depending on the ship end up in the loot container. Of course you would have to make these take up alot of space so you had to have a hauler follow you around to pick up the wrecked pieces of ship. Then just have these things refine into diffrent minerals depending on their size.
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Kickass
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Posted - 2005.09.21 21:28:00 -
[17]
Way,
Dont take this the wrong way, but I guess you would consider me a griefer. Since the first day when we all fell appart my group of people have made money from PvP and PvP only. It is all a matter of how you go by achieving it, if you want to come by I will explain to you how we do it.
And no I do not mean getting lucky with an indy and 500mil worth of stuff in its can, we usualy pop those cause we cant carry them.
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Cassendra
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Posted - 2005.09.21 23:55:00 -
[18]
Wreckage would have to amount to no more than some fraction of the insurance premium or else it would be the biggest exploit opportunity of all time.
Griefers? Ermm... aren¦t you one of them?  Not that it¦s a bad thing unless it¦s combined with an exploit imo. It¦s evil, yes... but that makes the game bipolar and hence ads content. If everyone was a good sportsman and honorable, without purely evil intent, we would quit from boredom.
CCP should have created one character per account. Noone seriously and meaningfully trains 2 characters on the same account anyway... not to a good level at least.
.
--------x---------
Cassendra
Assassin. Merc. Pirate.
Crusaders
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Cassendra
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Posted - 2005.09.21 23:56:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kickass
Way,
Dont take this the wrong way, but I guess you would consider me a griefer. Since the first day when we all fell appart my group of people have made money from PvP and PvP only. It is all a matter of how you go by achieving it, if you want to come by I will explain to you how we do it.
And no I do not mean getting lucky with an indy and 500mil worth of stuff in its can, we usualy pop those cause we cant carry them.
Erm no... your group has made its existence from floating around in space with virtually no meaningful PvP.
.
--------x---------
Cassendra
Assassin. Merc. Pirate.
Crusaders
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Vegeir
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Posted - 2005.09.22 02:30:00 -
[20]
I've made a recommendation on NOS and webs a few times I still think is the way it should lean.
First Nosferatu/Neutralizer Changes.
Small - 10km Range, Current Drain, Tracks like a 125mm Railgun.
Medium - 20km Range, Current Drain, Tracks like a 250mm Railgun (yes degrading)
Large - 30km Range, Current Drain, Tracks worse then a 1400mm Railgun.
This would obviously injur large Battleship Vampire Setups that move with much speed. Which is the only "problem" However it would eliminate the ability for a battleship to equip a NOS that is effective against battleships and frigates unless the Battleship is also equiped to Webify the target severely. It would also allow more use of small nosferatu in frigate engagments. Honestly they shouldn't put you in smart bomb range. I would almost say a small should have a 15km range.
Webifier Changes.
Long Range Web - 20km Base/30km T2 - 33%/44%
Mid Web - 10kmBase/15km T2 - 50%/66%
Close Web - 5km Base/7.5km T2 - 75%/90%
This would allow multiple things. First it would make most frigate engagements not Webcentric. As most frigates would get in and out of close range web. But Using a mid or long would augment their fighting capability but not completely arrest the opposing ship. It would also allow tierd webbing for cruiser tacklers. Use that Long range web to catch up before putting down the mid also and getting a good tackle. Blasterthrons and other close range battleships could use the close web for blaster effectiveness or alternatively a mid/long web to give better chance at closing range from range.
The options would be much greater and more evenly dispersed. It would bring CLose webs into smartbomb range also which is arguably a nice balance counter against frigates relying on heavy webs. I don't think frigates should be stopping battleships but battleships shouldn't be stopping frigates either. And I think this achieves that. Pack hunting will still be effective, very, perhaps even more so with long range disruptors/webbers and closer range scramblers/webbers dedicated ships doing better.
Alternatively, Make them small Medium and Large instead of long, mid and close respectively and make the fitting requirements frigate challenging, cruiser challenging and battleship challenging respectively.
So if a Battleship wants to fit on multiple mid range it can but giving up alot of slots would be rough, one large would be nice but require alot of range closing by itself. This would reduce the options and force more specific roles.
Now before someone says but that doesn't make sense, a big tractor beam shoots further. Close your eyes, breathe deeply and think. Is real fun. Is it fun having to use a battlehsip. Is it fun being droned, nos'd or webbed in a frigate. Is being in your web range always have to mean being in their web range?
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infused
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Posted - 2005.09.22 02:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Arnov Karsoth
or why not make NOS work in another way.
heavy nos vs frigate = 20% effectiveness
heavy nos vs cruiser = 40% effective
heavy nos vs battleship = 60% effective
medium nos vs Frigate = 40% effective
medium nos vs cruiser = 60% effective
medium nos vs Battleship = 80% effective
small nos vs frigate = 60% effective
small nos vs cruiser = 75% effective
small nos vs battleship 90% effective
or something like that + a modifier for the skill that is needed for using the vampire modules
and the lenght of battles are mainly shortened by the amount of dmg all guns do nowadays.
why not instead of modify the hitpoints remove alot of the dmg output overall by all the guns
that would keep the balance we got in hitpoints today but lenghten the battles.
the npc dmg output would be needed to to be lowered accordingly also as the player dmg output would be lowered also.
id love to see a battle take 3-5min instead of 20-40sec as it is sometimes today.
OMG... lets just change everything that works the way it should...
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Shin Ra
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Posted - 2005.09.22 06:29:00 -
[22]
Going back to what you said about loot.
If you go around in 20 man blobs trying to kill 2 people your not going to get much loot. Escpecially if you let all the noobs who come out in kestrels steal the loot.
If you go around with 4 ppl you will get a much higher % share of loot.
Hence why everyone in our corp DOES indeed make billions in loot.
-----------------------------------------
WoW player > Oh no I died! I have to walk now a bit! |
Weeman
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Posted - 2005.09.22 08:38:00 -
[23]
Im not being funny here but as for the Burn Eden guys trying to tell Priory how to pvp - take your heads out of your arses lads. Thanks in advance.
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ASIV TRE
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Posted - 2005.09.22 08:46:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Weeman
Im not being funny here but as for the Burn Eden guys trying to tell Priory how to pvp - take your heads out of your arses lads. Thanks in advance.
lol
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Grimwalius d'Antan
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Posted - 2005.09.22 10:16:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Waywatcher
first of all is PVP, now i know all the lame as griefers will post stuff like "I make billions from popping ships blah blah" i think we all know this isnt true (i know there are always exceptions)
The money comes from ransoming people by threatening to blow them up. Blowing people up can be fun, but it doesn't really add to the corp wallet. I'd say that 99% of the times you're ransomed, you WILL survive if you pay. People who kills despite being paid are morons and should not be seen as representatives of the distinct majority of criminals. You're using them as an argument, and it doesn't bear all the way.
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Roshan longshot
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Posted - 2005.09.22 11:04:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Waywatcher
CCP over time have introduced nice new stuff to play with and at the same time altered things for us to learn to use again and for that im sure most peeps are happy, there are a few things which i would love to see and think would improve eve greatly...... first of all is PVP, now i know all the lame as griefers will post stuff like "I make billions from popping ships blah blah" i think we all know this isnt true (i know there are always exceptions) i think whats needed is wreckage! lets have blown up ships leaving wreckage that can be taken back to stations..... maybe in a new class of ship (Tug maybe?) and recycled to recover either components or minerals. Also lets make fights last longer, many times a fight between multiple bs or smaller ships can be over in seconds which makes combat less fun and less tactical. I dont see why maybe hitpoints could be increased?
Second is consistancy, I as im sure many of you guys fly HACs or smaller ships in combat which is fine, CCP have made changes over time to make different ships good in different situations. Long are gone the days when a bs hit frigs just as much as it hit a bs. Now heres were the consistancy comes in.... why change mods such as turrets/launchers/ECM and so on to make the smaller ships have advantages and not change nos and neuts? i just dont get it..... basically as Hanns sig explains is that a bs with a nos or 2 is going to paralise most HACs, all that needs to be changed is a fall off and optimum as most mods seem to have nowadays.
Just a few quick grumbles and ideas.... please feel free to suggest others or maybe disagree with me
Why not have "scrap metal"? So many units persize of ship?
Frigates 5
destroyers 7
Cruisers 10
Battle cruisers 15
Battle ships 20...etc...etc
Thats combined with what loot is usally left behind...
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter [i]pirate[/i] or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box. |
Shai Faetal
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Posted - 2005.09.22 11:10:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Waywatcher
CCP over time have introduced nice new stuff to play with and at the same time altered things for us to learn to use again and for that im sure most peeps are happy, there are a few things which i would love to see and think would improve eve greatly...... first of all is PVP, now i know all the lame as griefers will post stuff like "I make billions from popping ships blah blah" i think we all know this isnt true (i know there are always exceptions) i think whats needed is wreckage! lets have blown up ships leaving wreckage that can be taken back to stations..... maybe in a new class of ship (Tug maybe?) and recycled to recover either components or minerals. Also lets make fights last longer, many times a fight between multiple bs or smaller ships can be over in seconds which makes combat less fun and less tactical. I dont see why maybe hitpoints could be increased?
Second is consistancy, I as im sure many of you guys fly HACs or smaller ships in combat which is fine, CCP have made changes over time to make different ships good in different situations. Long are gone the days when a bs hit frigs just as much as it hit a bs. Now heres were the consistancy comes in.... why change mods such as turrets/launchers/ECM and so on to make the smaller ships have advantages and not change nos and neuts? i just dont get it..... basically as Hanns sig explains is that a bs with a nos or 2 is going to paralise most HACs, all that needs to be changed is a fall off and optimum as most mods seem to have nowadays.
Just a few quick grumbles and ideas.... please feel free to suggest others or maybe disagree with me
no disrespect, but ... paragraphs 
-
meh. go away |
Shin Ra
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Posted - 2005.09.24 07:54:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Weeman
Im not being funny here but as for the Burn Eden guys trying to tell Priory how to pvp - take your heads out of your arses lads. Thanks in advance.
This coming from the corp who begged us for a NAP so we wouldn't kill you.
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2005.09.24 08:57:00 -
[29]
Shipwrecks have been proposed over and over again. It¦s a good idea. But it has some problems: for example the lag they could cause in a larger battle.
Here some suggestions to solve all this problems and realize shipwrecks:
- shipwrecks would disapear after 5 minutes. They need to be "secured" using the anchoring skill if some people want to tow it away. Otherwise the shipwreck breaks into smaller parts after 5 minutes and can not be recovered.
- Once secured (click 1 x anchor) the wreck stays 3 hours and can be towed away with a special shipclass (towing ship). The towing ship must be veeeeeeeeery slow to give the loosers a chance to fight again and get their shipwreck themselves. This will cause additional PVP fun once a 50 mil worth BS-wreck is out there somewhere. There will be something to fight for and something to take risks for.
- Instead of the can there now will be a shipwreck which is more realistic and also nicer than these unrealistic cans. This way no aditional lag can happen: no cans, but a shipwreck.
- there should be an option to "unmount" intact modules of the wreck and cargohol and it must be possible to loot these items. Shortly said: pilots "don¦t open cans anymore" - they now "open the shipwreck and can loot stuff like always.
- To prevent the exploiting of shipwrecks the insurance in 0.0 has to go. This means if a ship gets blown up in 1.0 to 0.1 Concord cleans the trade lines of shipwrecks and the insurance is payed out normally. In 0.0 the insurance refuses to pay and refuses to remove the wreck. The players have to do it themselves or waste the ISK in that wreck.
I think this solution would give additional impulses to settle 0.0 and to have more fun in PVP. It bebefits the larger gang, in the end an alliance should allways be able to recover the shipwreck. But it also gives chances to have additional combat when one group trys to secure the wreck and to tow it away. "Payback" is possible. All in all great fun possible with this idea. So if CCP would wake up and focus on things like this idea to fight the boredome a lot of players would be very happy.
Try a TDG spawn or the TDG complexes in Pure Blind, Syndicate or empire. |
Haniblecter Teg
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Posted - 2005.09.25 00:55:00 -
[30]
Paragraphs are your friend. That **** is hard to read.
Friends Forever |
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