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Dato Koppla
Rage of Inferno
Malefic Motives
155
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Posted - 2013.04.21 15:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
The title says it all, right now the cloaking subsystem gives a cap use bonus only and is easily the weakest cloaky subsystem among the T3s, give it a drone damage/hp bonus and 50m3 bandwith (maybe 125m3 bay) and it'll make it much more flexible and useable, I realize this kinda enters the Pilgrims territory but the Legion costs more and it will just be an improvement for a bigger investment (while maintaining some differences like TD bonus) so I don't think it will obsolete the Pilgrim. |
Jonas Sukarala
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
99
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 15:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
wishful thinking they haven't even done that for gallente the premier drone race what chance have amarr got?
'Tech3 ships need to be put down, like a rabid dog drooling everywhere in the house, they are out of line' CCP Ytterbium
Nerf missile range into place..... where is the TD missile change?-á ,...projectiles should use capacitor. |
Ager Agemo
Imperial Collective
269
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 16:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
at first i though it would be overpowered but after thinking about it, is not that overpowered given the skill investment, risks of flying a t3 and cost even tho that last one should not be a balance factor. |
Syrias Bizniz
Carnivore Company
Honey Badger Coalition
138
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 17:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote:at first i though it would be overpowered but after thinking about it, is not that overpowered given the skill investment, risks of flying a t3 and cost even tho that last one should not be a balance factor.
I didn't know there was a lot of skill investment in flying a T3 compared to a Recon / any other T2 ship. |
Dato Koppla
Rage of Inferno
Malefic Motives
157
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 01:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jonas Sukarala wrote:wishful thinking they haven't even done that for gallente the premier drone race what chance have amarr got?
Cloaky Proteus is already the best cloaky, capable of 600+ dps with Blasters and can even give up 1 turret for 25m3 bandwith/100m3 dronebay and maintain similar dps.
Cloaky Legion on the other hand struggles to break 300dps while still having more cap issues than the Proteus.
5 bonused mediums is hardly gamebreaking and the dps will still be lower compared to other cloaky T3s but it would allow for plenty of utility which is really nice for a cloaky.
I understand that cost shouldn't be a balancing factor but once again I don't think it will obsolete any ships, it will just make it useable, right now I've never even heard of cloaky legion being used outside of cloaky/nullified transport. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate
Sailors of the Sacred Spice
982
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 02:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dato Koppla wrote:Jonas Sukarala wrote:wishful thinking they haven't even done that for gallente the premier drone race what chance have amarr got? Cloaky Proteus is already the best cloaky, capable of 600+ dps with Blasters and can even give up 1 turret for 25m3 bandwith/100m3 dronebay and maintain similar dps. Cloaky Legion on the other hand struggles to break 300dps while still having more cap issues than the Proteus. 5 bonused mediums is hardly gamebreaking and the dps will still be lower compared to other cloaky T3s but it would allow for plenty of utility which is really nice for a cloaky. I understand that cost shouldn't be a balancing factor but once again I don't think it will obsolete any ships, it will just make it useable, right now I've never even heard of cloaky legion being used outside of cloaky/nullified transport.
It also gets 45km range with scorch. Blaster dps isn't the same as... real dps. The only reason cloaky proteus is viable at all is because you pick target and decloak on top of it.
Standings Improvement Service
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Drake Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
140
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 03:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Just change the bonus on the cloaking subsystem, but until the Proteus gets drones, because like sabre906 said, blaster dps isn't real dps and we all know how fail medium railguns are.
"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."-Vermaak Doe |
Ager Agemo
Imperial Collective
269
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 03:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
Syrias Bizniz wrote:Ager Agemo wrote:at first i though it would be overpowered but after thinking about it, is not that overpowered given the skill investment, risks of flying a t3 and cost even tho that last one should not be a balance factor. I didn't know there was a lot of skill investment in flying a T3 compared to a Recon / any other T2 ship.
go explode on a T3 :) (if you are using them for PVP which is what this is sorta about, you can expect to blow up) |
Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
246
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 04:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Legion needs a lot of attention, but it's not going to get any until the balance pass gets all the way to the end- the entire t2 and faction lineups is on the cutting board before t3.
I'll put in my .02 isk though- all the Legion really needs is more low slots. It's an armor tanker, and an Amarr one, why does it get so many mids and so few lows? Covert subsystem especially, since so many slots come from the offensive system. The covert bonus is rubbish I agree, but cloaky wouldn't be nearly so bad if it could fit 3 heat sinks and a tank at the same time.
- Mission Overhaul - Bridging the PVP / PVE Gap -
-áIf the game stops teaching people to fear lowsec, maybe people will start going there? |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
80
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 06:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'm curious why the Emergent Locus Analyzer subsystems don't grant a weaponless highslot to fit the probe launcher in.
Maybe it's time for the introduction of specialized slots, like the Zephyr and Echelon have. Grant a highslot that's only capable of fitting probe launchers. |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
141
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 22:22:00 -
[11] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:I'm curious why the Emergent Locus Analyzer subsystems don't grant a weaponless highslot to fit the probe launcher in.
Maybe it's time for the introduction of specialized slots, like the Zephyr and Echelon have. Grant a highslot that's only capable of fitting probe launchers. No. Adding these sorts of restrictions only take away from the "sandbox" idea. If you want to fly a cloaky T3 and want to fit a probe launcher, then please do so. Nothing is stopping you. There don't need to be special slots to further hold peoples' hands through the game. We've had too much of that going around recently. Eve is about choices and experiences.
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Dato Koppla
Rage of Inferno
Malefic Motives
158
|
Posted - 2013.04.23 00:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Dato Koppla wrote:Jonas Sukarala wrote:wishful thinking they haven't even done that for gallente the premier drone race what chance have amarr got? Cloaky Proteus is already the best cloaky, capable of 600+ dps with Blasters and can even give up 1 turret for 25m3 bandwith/100m3 dronebay and maintain similar dps. Cloaky Legion on the other hand struggles to break 300dps while still having more cap issues than the Proteus. 5 bonused mediums is hardly gamebreaking and the dps will still be lower compared to other cloaky T3s but it would allow for plenty of utility which is really nice for a cloaky. I understand that cost shouldn't be a balancing factor but once again I don't think it will obsolete any ships, it will just make it useable, right now I've never even heard of cloaky legion being used outside of cloaky/nullified transport. It also gets 45km range with scorch. Blaster dps isn't the same as... real dps. The only reason cloaky proteus is viable at all is because you pick target and decloak on top of it.
You don't get an optimal bonus like the Liquid Crystal sub, so it's more like 22km, with 200dps lol. Decloaking on top of something is the whole point of a combat cloaky and the Legions cap use bonus is straight up useless in this regard. Especially because as mentioned, it gets quite alot of midslots compared to lowslots in its cloaky configuration, which means you have space for a cap booster (eliminating the need for cap bonus) but no space for heat sinks.
Drones is just one option, but I'd be willing to take a laser damage bonus. |
LtauSTinpoWErs
Mafia Redux
Phobia.
6
|
Posted - 2013.04.26 22:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
I have decided to compare the bonuses of Force Recon's to their racial Covert T3's. Almost all of the 4 covert reconfiguration subsystems, match the damage bonus from the Cruiser Skill for each Force Recon. The second thing, is that each T3 should have Ewar strength equal to 50% of the Force Recon counter part, which is proven true. The only exception to this is the Tengu, and that has an EWAR strength of 42% rather than 50%. In the end, the Legion's covert subsystem needs to be redesigned to make it fall inline with its Force Recon counterpart.
The Legion's Covert Reconfiguration subsytem needs the following:
The Covert Reconfiguration should give the Legion:
10% bonus to drone hit points and damage per level
The covert subsystem should also give a Drone Bay of 200 and Drone Bandwidth of 50.
Evidence is below:
Arazu
Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level
Recon Ships Skill Bonus:
20% bonus to Warp Scrambler and Warp Disruptor range per level
Proteus
Covert Reconfiguration + Friction Extension Processor
Subsystem Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to medium hybrid turret damage per level
10% bonus to warp disruptor and warp scrambler range per level.
Damage Bonuses are equal for Gallante Force Recon and T3. Proteus's EWAR strenght is 50% of Recon's.
Rapier
Minmatar Cruiser Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret rate of fire per level
Recon Ships Skill Bonus:
60% bonus to stasis webifier range per level
Loki
Covert Reconfiguration + Immobility Drivers
Subsystem Skill Bonus:
30% bonus to stasis webifier range per level
5% bonus to medium projectile turret rate of fire per level
Damage Bonuses are equal for Minmatar Force Recon and T3. Loki's EWAR strenght is 50% of Recon's.
Falcon
Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus:
5% Bonus to Medium Hybrid Damage Per Level
Recon Ships Skill Bonus:
30% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength per level
Rook
Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus:
5% Bonus to Heavy and Heavy Assault Missile Launcher Rate of Fire per level
Tengu
Covert Reconfiguration + Obfuscation Manifold
Subsystem Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire per level
12.5% bonus to ECM target jammer optimal range per level.
The damage bonus matches the Rook and not the Falcon. Secondly, the Tengu's EWAR strength is LESS than 50% of the Recon's.
Pilgrim
Amarr Cruiser Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to drone hit points and damage per level.
Recon Ships Skill Bonus:
20% bonus to Energy Vampire and Energy Neutralizer transfer amount
Legion
Covert Reconfiguration + Energy Parasitic Complex
Subsystem Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to medium energy turret capacitor use per level
10% bonus to energy vampire and energy neutralizer transfer amount per level
The Legion's damage bonus does not match either Amarrian Recon at all. The Covert Reconfiguration should give the Legion a 10% bonus to drone hit points and damage per level. The Legion's EWAR strength is 50% than the Recon's.
The covert subsystem should also give a Drone Bay of 200 and Drone Bandwidth of 50.
In the end, you won't need the Legion to be a DPS boat because, you will be able to fill its highs with all neutralziers now, just like the Pilgrim. Drain targets cap while your drones chew away at the targets shields, armor and finally hull. |
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