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Ragnarok Knight
ROGUE - DRONES
30
|
Posted - 2013.04.21 22:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
Lowsec? Nullsec? GREAT! i love the idea of the removal of local. 
...but what about Highsec?
i don't believe that removing local from high-sec is a good idea.
CCP don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!
No one has complained about local *in highsec* with me. Every single person i have talked to about removing local ALWAYS talks about
A) lowsec - pvp B) nullsec - pvp
Not once in all 3+ years of EVEing, have i ever heard anyone complain about local *in highsec* I'ts taken for granted, and is viewed as simply ''doing it's job''.
Even the High-sec Trade hub scamming is something that is a ....although not my cup of tea... an emergent part of what makes eve such a unique game. However, highsec local is also used for recruiting newbies! Religious debates in Amarr. 1v1 frig battle offers in Rens! Goonswarm taunting the freighters in Jita! Countless other enriching activities!
Just the ability to quickly and easily talk to new players is a huge reason to keep local * in highsec* alive. without it alot of 14-day-trialers are going to think no-one is playing the game when they first start, but a handful of noob ships at the undock of their first station! LOL! i showed eve to a friend once, and they thought it was just one star-system XD removal of highsec local could seriously harm the % of people that turn into subscribers! No joke!!!
Basically: -----> Get rid of local in Nullsec and lowsec but leave all of highsec alone! <-----
It makes sense story line wise. Where there are well funded security forces at the gates keep track of everyone publicly.
Also, my suggested change will add to the feeling of Leaving highsec and entering dangerous low! The *contrast* between the two will be greater! Enhancing the experience of the game as a whole! if you simply remove local from both, then you solve the problems local is causing in low and nullsec....but you KILL the emergent gameplay of highsec!
I'm sure the standard arguments will be '' oh its just trade hub scamms'' '' oh you are just a high-sec warrior carebear blah'' and whatever else people are going to come up... but that's a load of bull.
Highsec local enriches the game for the same reasons that it damages the gameplay of lowsec and nullsec.
I genuinely believe what i'm saying makes sense, and i call upon the CSM and the players of eve in general to make this thread into something huge to get CCP's attention on such an important issue for all players!
Bring on the discussion! |

Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
84
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 00:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
sorry where did they say they were removing local? |

Ragnarok Knight
ROGUE - DRONES
30
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 00:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
http://themittani.com/news/local-be-removed-odyssey-expansion i know its April fools, HOWEVER if low / null were to have local removed.......i would want to keep high |

Machiavelli's Nemesis
Angry Mustellid
251
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 01:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ragnarok Knight wrote:http://themittani.com/news/local-be-removed-odyssey-expansion i know its April fools, HOWEVER if low / null were to have local removed.......i would want to keep high
Look at the date the article was posted.
FFS.
|

Ragnarok Knight
ROGUE - DRONES
30
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 01:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Local is an oppressive game mechanic, that genuinely does remove the mystery of what's out there. I would love for CCP to remove low and nullsec local. |

Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
1663
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 02:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sadly there are too many lazy people in this game that use local like a crutch to compensate for it and theyd cry too hard if ccp did remove it. I recommend WHs for no local goodness :) |

Tsobai Hashimoto
Hard Knocks Inc.
130
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 02:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Local will never go away, no matter how hard the CSM or anyone pushes for it. its just something that is going to stay as they want to bring in more players and Dust Mercs into EVE and keep the highsec players active and paying (everyone in EVE needs them even if you hate highsec miners)
But..... I do think that if you all banded together for a compromised idea that the CSM could push for, we could make it better......
Maybe a local delay depending on the sec status of the system? a one tick delay after gate fire per Sec status below 1.0
in null you wouldnt show up for 10seconds, and while it would still give a warning to ratters and botters, that is 10 seconds longer than you had before, and would surly double if not triple your attack success ratio, but at the same time allow nullbears time to learn there mistakes and start using dscan
also on that note, a nice big update to the dscan UI would be needed
I know its not what you all want, but its a start in the right direction, it also fits in with lore (if you like to play that card) the stargate notify all pilots of entrances and exits, but the less sec status the less manned are the stargates and there are delays with the flow of information.
Also could have this setup the other way as well, if you leave a system, you are still listed in system till you are moved by the delay to the next system, keeps it clean and a bit mysterious for chases and following pilots down a pipe
Entering system by cyno, covert cyno and WH would all be under the same rules.....after a few seconds the stargate systems are able to detect you and update the local comms relay.
Either way, I know us in HK, if we had a 10 second delay when jumping out of our WH and into a null pocket, we could F! some people up if they are not on dscan looking for probes or sigs....would be fun |

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
68
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 07:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
There are multiple threads on this subject and of course most of the AFK cloaking threads turn into this too as idiots mistakenly say removing local will get rid of AFK cloaking, which is demonstratively false.
If you do not want local go to WH space... If you do not want LOCAL go to WH space, its as simple as that!-á-á-á-á-á-á-á There are people who think that WH space is like 0.0 but without local, well they should light a cyno and try jumping to it. |

StoneCold
Somali Coast Guard Authority
137
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 08:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ragnarok Knight wrote:Local is an oppressive game mechanic, that genuinely does remove the mystery of what's out there. I would love for CCP to remove low and nullsec local.
Meanwhile somehwere in Sobaseki: The Armageddon was floating between the stars and only a silent clunk was heared every now and then. When the Captian jumped up from his Chair shouting: "THERE HE IS! THERE HE IS! - Set sails, full speed! MOAR COAL!" RING RING.
The captain realy wishes that those nasty stargates register every movement through them. For Hire Psychotic Monk for CSM |

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
68
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 08:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ragnarok Knight wrote:Local is an oppressive game mechanic, that genuinely does remove the mystery of what's out there. I would love for CCP to remove low and nullsec local.
If you want the mystery then all the data supplied in the map has to go too for low and null, such as:
Average pilots in space in the last 30 minutes Cynosural fields Number of pilots currently docked and active Pirate and police ships destroyed in the last 24 hours (Used by Dotaln to show that nice graph) Ships destroyed in the last hour Escapa Pods destroyed in the last hour Jumps in the last hour
In terms of the following:
Escape Pods destroyed in the last 24 hours Ships destroyed in the last 24 hours
I think they will need to go too, but could live with it:
In terms of the suggestion of 10 second delay in local, of course you do, then you won't just get the stupid and inattentive... If you do not want LOCAL go to WH space, its as simple as that!-á-á-á-á-á-á-á There are people who think that WH space is like 0.0 but without local, well they should light a cyno and try jumping to it. |

Graplok
RandomJive Corp
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 10:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
How about if you could opt out of local (or opt in)? Like turning your ship's transponder off or something. |

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
442
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 11:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:EDIT: A better idea that intelligent people have suggested is that CCP create a new region with no local and none of this intel and then see how that develops, wouldn't that be a lot better for the game? I was thinking of it since my day 1. Something with no WH mech, but also with no local "detectors". It was funny to have ships designed for reconnaissance... only for them to be outclassed by sites on Internet collecting data provided by CCP themselves though API, not to mention in-game stuff like watchlists. You don't have to search for deribs, you can just look for "ships destroyed last N hours". You don't have to clean your traces - no matter how eager you to clean biomass and shoot wrecks, "ppl podded" page will show everyone what you did. So much for "systems not under CONCORD surveillance". Heck, even wormholes can be "scouted" like this (even though it was nerfed eventually).
This is not to say that you don't need to scout, but so much data is given for free. And so people had to come up with things like logintraps, more alts etc, breaking immersion and destroying gameplay niches in favour of safer play.
I think I should at least be thankful that there are wormholes. After all I'm not looking for radical changes, but I will always welcome all new kinds of space with different rules. |

Ihazcheez Hashur
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 11:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Well, one thing I have suggested a couple of times is allow player intervention of the transmission of signatures from gates. In a similar fashion that folks 'bubble' gates in NULL; I have always proposed a similar, passive bubble mechanism that effectively cuts the gate off from the 'communication web', but allowed in low as well, concord will frown heavily if used in high sec . In a hypothetical example, you'd have either a dedicated ship module like a HIC bubble, or some kind of mobile poo as with the mobile warp bubble or interdiction sphere etc... In any case the sole purpose of this, instead of disrupt warp, is to passively prevent the gate transmitting signatures to 'local' as pilots enter the system through that gate.. So in plain effect, new pilot enters system, gate unable to update their computer of pilots in system, and they see empty region of space. Gate also unable to communicate new entity to system also, so folks already in system do not see new player in local also.. If pilots are so inclined they can shoot them out, but, it could add a very interesting mechanic to low / null if you wanted to cloak a fleet from local from new visitors or cloak a fleet from existing occupants... Pirates would certainly love it in lower sec areas I am sure.
Imagine sending a lone vessel in system, finding that delicious fleet of miners taking advantage of an 'empty system' and signature bubbling the gate, making that gank squad invisible to local, and indulging in all those tears.  |

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
68
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 11:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu, its a good idea, because it does not break the existing balance and gives something new to be explored and developed.
As for the idea of some sort of blocker, people have come up with these ideas and yes they are interesting, however the issue is game balance, you have to look at risk, the thing is that without local the risk is off the scale, because of the power projection of cyno's. I and many others feel that without local it will reduce numbers in 0.0 further, in the end you will just have PL running around looking for someone to gank, everyone else will be in HS, that would be the logical end game based on risk and power projection. If you do not want LOCAL go to WH space, its as simple as that!-á-á-á-á-á-á-á There are people who think that WH space is like 0.0 but without local, well they should light a cyno and try jumping to it. |

Ihazcheez Hashur
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 12:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote: As for the idea of some sort of blocker, people have come up with these ideas and yes they are interesting, however the issue is game balance, you have to look at risk, the thing is that without local the risk is off the scale, because of the power projection of cyno's. I and many others feel that without local it will reduce numbers in 0.0 further, in the end you will just have PL running around looking for someone to gank, everyone else will be in HS, that would be the logical end game based on risk and power projection.
I'm with you Dracvlad, thing is with Cynos that in my theoretical proposal, the bubbles would only affect the gate actually bubbled. if in a system with 3 or 4 gates, and you only had one bubbled, the other gates would pick up the signatures of cyno'd vessels, and light up local. The only way to make a cyno invisible is to bubble all system gates.. then if that happens, then whoever is attacking are most likely to steamroll the system anyway. Defenders can just shoot out the signature bubble(s) on a gate , and keep it clear if they need that local intel on cyno activity. Certainly a double edged sword, but a fairly dynamic.
In a way, it will make defending a system about scouting, keeping physical watch on gates if bubbling is chosen, or keeping gates free of signature bubbles if local is a must have.
As a low sec pirate I'd love to be able to cloak local from entrance systems, folks entering the system would clearly see the sig bubble, as you do with warp bubbles, so they can freely shoot it out, and re enter if they so choose to get intelligence back, but still gives us the ability to intercept if we also desire. if people warp off to go ratting ignoring the bubble, then for us the hunt is ON! piracy would be back, but still, dscan is a tool to be used.. Bring on the Pilgrim fleet for that delicious PvE carebear tear banquet. |

Zarnak Wulf
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
1179
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 12:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
I am just going to point out that the theme of Odyssey is 'exploration' and fanfest is this week. Silly people. |

Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
68
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 12:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ihazcheez Hashur wrote:Dracvlad wrote: As for the idea of some sort of blocker, people have come up with these ideas and yes they are interesting, however the issue is game balance, you have to look at risk, the thing is that without local the risk is off the scale, because of the power projection of cyno's. I and many others feel that without local it will reduce numbers in 0.0 further, in the end you will just have PL running around looking for someone to gank, everyone else will be in HS, that would be the logical end game based on risk and power projection.
I'm with you Dracvlad, thing is with Cynos that in my theoretical proposal, the bubbles would only affect the gate actually bubbled. if in a system with 3 or 4 gates, and you only had one bubbled, the other gates would pick up the signatures of cyno'd vessels, and light up local. The only way to make a cyno invisible is to bubble all system gates.. then if that happens, then whoever is attacking are most likely to steamroll the system anyway. Defenders can just shoot out the signature bubble(s) on a gate , and keep it clear if they need that local intel on cyno activity. Certainly a double edged sword, but a fairly dynamic. In a way, it will make defending a system about scouting, keeping physical watch on gates if bubbling is chosen, or keeping gates free of signature bubbles if local is a must have. As a low sec pirate I'd love to be able to cloak local from entrance systems, folks entering the system would clearly see the sig bubble, as you do with warp bubbles, so they can freely shoot it out, and re enter if they so choose to get intelligence back, but still gives us the ability to intercept if we also desire. if people warp off to go ratting ignoring the bubble, then for us the hunt is ON! piracy would be back, but still, dscan is a tool to be used.. Bring on the Pilgrim fleet for that delicious PvE carebear tear banquet.
I think your idea is very interesting, it creates a reason to fight too for the more aggresive defender, I actually prefer this to idea in comparison to all the others I have seen. If you do not want LOCAL go to WH space, its as simple as that!-á-á-á-á-á-á-á There are people who think that WH space is like 0.0 but without local, well they should light a cyno and try jumping to it. |

Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
870
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 15:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ragnarok Knight wrote:Lowsec? Nullsec? GREAT! i love the idea of the removal of local. 
Another bad remove local thread. 
Why does everyone who suggests that local be removed have to have a little devil at the end of the sentence?
Removing local will reduce pvp dramatically, like wormholes, and it will make low sec pvp more blobby. No thanks, that idea sucks.
http://eve-census.com/
If I want to remove 90% of pvp from low sec and null sec then I would remove local.
Go to a wormhole if you like no local so much. I think its neat that eve has that as a *part* of the game. But people are voting with their feet to stay where there is a local.
Its like having an election where 10% of people choose no local and 90% choose local. Your conclusion: "force no local everywhere!" Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|

March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
646
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 15:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Cearain wrote: Why does everyone who suggests that local be removed have to have a little devil at the end of the sentence?
because only wannabe carebear killers suggest such idea: they think it will make hunting bears easier.
that's why they only wannabe.
|

Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force Caldari State Capturing
258
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 16:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
Why would you even remove local from lowsec? It helps vastly in target acquisition in the fast paced pace of FW. |

Tsobai Hashimoto
Hard Knocks Inc.
130
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 16:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Ragnarok Knight wrote:Lowsec? Nullsec? GREAT! i love the idea of the removal of local.  Another bad remove local thread.  Why does everyone who suggests that local be removed have to have a little devil at the end of the sentence? Removing local will reduce pvp dramatically, like wormholes, and it will make low sec pvp more blobby. No thanks, that idea sucks. http://eve-census.com/If I want to remove 90% of pvp from low sec and null sec then I would remove local. Go to a wormhole if you like no local so much. I think its neat that eve has that as a *part* of the game. But people are voting with their feet to stay where there is a local.
Its like having an election where 10% of people choose no local and 90% choose local. Your conclusion: "force no local everywhere!"
Wormholes have only 10% of the population because you have to live out of a POS, you have to store all your ships in the POS, and to do anything in WH space you need nice ships, like a Tengu, or dreads, this takes a lot of SP that some players dont have, it also takes a lot of trust....when I was recruited I had to buy a near 2 billion isk tengu and haul it into deep WH space and setup in a POS with a bunch of people i dont really know.
also WH is not for casual players, you cant just log on and do stuff, most of the sites need 2 people, in C5 or C6 most sites need 5 - 10 people, you have to scan sites, roll statics
the local settings is not the reason why WH are only around 10% of the population. There are high end WH groups that if you dont have a dread IV with T2 siege you cant even apply, let alone get in.... |

Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society The Devil's Tattoo
870
|
Posted - 2013.04.22 17:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tsobai Hashimoto wrote:Cearain wrote:Ragnarok Knight wrote:Lowsec? Nullsec? GREAT! i love the idea of the removal of local.  Another bad remove local thread.  Why does everyone who suggests that local be removed have to have a little devil at the end of the sentence? Removing local will reduce pvp dramatically, like wormholes, and it will make low sec pvp more blobby. No thanks, that idea sucks. http://eve-census.com/If I want to remove 90% of pvp from low sec and null sec then I would remove local. Go to a wormhole if you like no local so much. I think its neat that eve has that as a *part* of the game. But people are voting with their feet to stay where there is a local.
Its like having an election where 10% of people choose no local and 90% choose local. Your conclusion: "force no local everywhere!" Wormholes have only 10% of the population because you have to live out of a POS, you have to store all your ships in the POS, and to do anything in WH space you need nice ships, like a Tengu, or dreads, this takes a lot of SP that some players dont have, it also takes a lot of trust....when I was recruited I had to buy a near 2 billion isk tengu and haul it into deep WH space and setup in a POS with a bunch of people i dont really know. also WH is not for casual players, you cant just log on and do stuff, most of the sites need 2 people, in C5 or C6 most sites need 5 - 10 people, you have to scan sites, roll statics the local settings is not the reason why WH are only around 10% of the population. There are high end WH groups that if you dont have a dread IV with T2 siege you cant even apply, let alone get in....
I can find plenty of wormholes to jump in to. If it were such great pvp, I and many others would do just that. The problem is that no local means you will find you are scanning down empty systems and wasting time. Time you could be spending pvping in known space. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|

Ryun Thar
Hedion University Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 01:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
whats removing local accomplish beyond making ganking easier?
most people only fight the lowest risk they can find now.. make me spam 'scan' every 10 seconds to make the predominant 8v1 even easier??
ugh. |

Davion Falcon
Those Once Loyal
50
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 02:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Minimize local and go do stuff around low/null for a month or two and let us know how that works out for you. Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise. Never forgotten, never forgiven. |

Tian Toralen
State War Academy Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 14:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
Why not optional local instead of removal? |

March rabbit
epTa Team Inc.
653
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 16:21:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ryun Thar wrote:whats removing local accomplish beyond making ganking easier?
most people only fight the lowest risk they can find now.. make me spam 'scan' every 10 seconds to make the predominant 8v1 even easier??
looks like a plan
|

Ryun Thar
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 16:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tian Toralen wrote:Why not optional local instead of removal?
8v1 isnt easy enough for most "pvpers"... they want "on grid" to be the first non-obnoxious indication you get that the 8 are upon you.
lazyness.. nothing more.
|

Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
2494
|
Posted - 2013.04.27 23:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
I think this is possibly the most effective April Fool's prank ever. Mane 614
|

Cosmo Raata
T-Cells Moar Tears
27
|
Posted - 2013.04.28 00:14:00 -
[29] - Quote
Honestly, local should be in control of system owners, both null & FW low sec, as in they can eliminate it or keep it. |

Craggus
BlueWaffe
94
|
Posted - 2013.04.29 16:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
Cearain wrote: I can find plenty of wormholes to jump in to. If it were such great pvp, I and many others would do just that. The problem is that no local means you will find you are scanning down empty systems and wasting time. Time you could be spending pvping in known space.
Because local is the only way to know if someone is in a target system..
I have mixed feelings on removing local from places other than w-space. It makes sense not to have it in w-space. These are "unknown" systems so, we use dscan and other tools (related to exploration, i.e. scanning) to find our targets.
Giving sov-holding alliances the option to remove local would be a better solution imo. Thru the use of i-hub upgrades or whatever it is they use.
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