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Dilbert HighSeed
Pirannha Corp
1
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Posted - 2013.04.25 20:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
OK, I recognize that there is no definitive answer.
Especially after the tiercide that is ongoing, plus the homogenization of ships.
However, I will ask the question anyway.
Background:
I am building a char that will be used pretty much exclusively for small ships/ small gang warfare.
I plan on flying BC's and smaller.
Whether the char ends up in FW or some organization like Agony, or even RvB is still up in the air.
My combat background runs from high sec warfare to long term wh life, to large null sec sov battles.
But it has been a LONG tome since I have done much of any combat, so I consider myself a neophyte with any combat with the new ships and changes to weapon systems.
So the question is what would be the "best" race and weapon system to focus on for parameters described?
I envision the char will eventually migrate to a second race, since that is inevitable, but I want to keep the skill training to substantially less than a year.
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Haulie Berry
514
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Posted - 2013.04.25 21:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
The one with the prettiest paint jobs. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society
The Devil's Tattoo
880
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Posted - 2013.04.25 21:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
I would go with either caldari or gallente.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
468
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Posted - 2013.04.25 22:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
In order of preference, I'd say
Caldari
Amarr/Minmatar
Gallente
Gallente still suffer from being kited by everything and fixed damage types (and you'll face 2 races of t2 ships that have good resists against your damage). Flying gallente boats is hard mode. Drones are basically useless unless you can pretty much prevent your target from moving.
Amarr has fixed (but decent) damage types, good damage and weapon range, but are kinda midslot challenged for small gang warfare.
Minmatar have great damage type selection, OK engagement range (but fighting at opt+falloff is less than 50% of your damage), good speed and decent slot layout.
Caldari have great damage projection and damage type selection, great midslots for small gang pvp mods. Not to mention the best (read: stupidly OP) ewar in the game for small gang combat. |
Dilbert HighSeed
Pirannha Corp
1
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Posted - 2013.04.25 23:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
chatgris wrote:In order of preference, I'd say
Caldari
Amarr/Minmatar
Gallente
Gallente still suffer from being kited by everything and fixed damage types (and you'll face 2 races of t2 ships that have good resists against your damage). Flying gallente boats is hard mode. Drones are basically useless unless you can pretty much prevent your target from moving.
Amarr has fixed (but decent) damage types, good damage and weapon range, but are kinda midslot challenged for small gang warfare.
Minmatar have great damage type selection, OK engagement range (but fighting at opt+falloff is less than 50% of your damage), good speed and decent slot layout.
Caldari missile boats have great damage projection and damage type selection, great midslots for small gang pvp mods. Not to mention the best (read: stupidly OP) ewar in the game for small gang combat. Missile boats have issues in large (50+ pilots) combat, but you said small gang. They also have decent turret ships, but they suffer from a lot of the issues gallente face except they often have more midslots available to try and compensate.
Thanks.
So thinking Caldari hulls, hybrids, rockets, small missiles, HAM's, in general.
Sound about right? |
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
468
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Posted - 2013.04.26 00:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dilbert HighSeed wrote:
Thanks.
So thinking Caldari hulls, hybrids, rockets, small missiles, HAM's, in general.
Sound about right?
Yeah. if you are new SP wise, i'd start off focusing on one of missiles or turrets (because there are support skills associated with each that are important to train). I'd suggest starting with missiles.
While you are at it, there's a lot more to pvp than just the ship and skills. There's tactics. If you are amenable to FW, I'd highly recommend joining Project Cerberus to teach you how to pvp in Caldari ships:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2921402#post2921402 (Here someone in the alliance recommended joining the corp, those guys know their small gang pvp and given the post appear to be recruiting). Plus if you join them you get pretty much an unlimited supply of hookbills, easily the best (non-pirate) faction frig out there right now. |
Cearain
Black Dragon Fighting Society
The Devil's Tattoo
880
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Posted - 2013.04.26 01:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
You do have to train drones if you want to be effecitve at galelnte. But you don't need to train missiles or shields.
Caldari are good ships. But Gallente have the best gank and tank ships in the game.
I mainly do solo brawling ships (inside scram range) here are my views of best and second best for what I do:
t1 frigate: 1)kestrel 2) tie tristan and incursus
t2 frigate: 1)hawk 2)ishkur/harpy tie
Destroyer: 1)Algos 2) corax
navy frigate: 1)hookbill 2) hookbill
Cruiser: 1)Vexor 2) don't fly a cruiser you will just die in a gatecamp or worse a slow painful death to a boosted kiting condor/hookbill/kestrel etc that you can never even lock.
BC: see second best cruiser.
Yeah others ships are better for disruptor range kiting and fleets. But IMO the gallente are great for fleets too because of the great damage. Gallente ships can be allot of fun to fly.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics
K162
1703
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Posted - 2013.04.26 02:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
I can and do fly them all but gallente is by far my favorite race.
sure, it's not suited to long range fighting, but nothing is more satisfying than unloading neutrons to the face :)
(but like you said, it's very subjective) |
Garresh
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
126
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Posted - 2013.04.26 07:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Just go minmatar. All those nerfs and we're still kickin.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
2637
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Posted - 2013.04.26 09:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Besides a few Caldari frigates, other races are currently subpar compared to Gallente in small gang context.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
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Seraph Castillon
Justified Chaos
60
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Posted - 2013.04.27 13:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
chatgris wrote:In order of preference, I'd say
Caldari
Amarr/Minmatar
Gallente
Fact: In low sec armor gangs are very common. If you specialize in Caldari you will not be able to do much in those gangs, save maybe flying a blackbird.
Fact: Gallente have by far the best close range brawler ships. Getting kited is not a problem when both sides are short range, which is often the case in FW lowsec.
Fact: Gallente/Caldari have the best T1 frigate line-up.
My ranking:
Gallente
Caldari
Minmatar
Amarr |
JAF Anders
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
94
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Posted - 2013.04.27 16:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Fact: chatgris has a better killboard than you do. =P
Seraph Castillon wrote:chatgris wrote:In order of preference, I'd say
Caldari
Amarr/Minmatar
Gallente
Fact: In low sec armor gangs are very common. If you specialize in Caldari you will not be able to do much in those gangs, save maybe flying a blackbird. Fact: Gallente have by far the best close range brawler ships. Getting kited is not a problem when both sides are short range, which is often the case in FW lowsec. Fact: Gallente/Caldari have the best T1 frigate line-up.
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Samurai Pizza Cats
469
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Posted - 2013.04.27 18:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
Seraph Castillon wrote:
Fact: In low sec armor gangs are very common. If you specialize in Caldari you will not be able to do much in those gangs, save maybe flying a blackbird.
This is true.
Seraph Castillon wrote:
Fact: Gallente have by far the best close range brawler ships. Getting kited is not a problem when both sides are short range, which is often the case in FW lowsec.
By "short range" I assume you mean within scram range. If so, you are very wrong. Gallente have awful ships for scram range fighting when it goes up against a rocket condor, rocket kestrel, or god forbid the hookbill. Not to mention if you find something that uses neuts.
Fact: I see a gallente ship around, I get excited because it's an easy kill.
Seraph Castillon wrote:
Fact: Gallente/Caldari have the best T1 frigate line-up.
Also false. The Gallente frigate lineup is pretty much this:
a) Incursus: Good for soloing people in cruisers who have no idea how to fit for frigate defense and getting 80 point killmails on BC. Good for boosted pvp against noobs in destroyers who don't know how to fly their ships for 40 point killmails. Otherwise, terrible for killing anything that knows what they are doing. Point is to really use the bonus to reps, you need a cap booster. That leaves you with a scram and prop mod, which puts you in a very very bad position for range control.
b) Tristan - if you fit it like an amarr drone boat (neuts + drones) then it's good against any other frigate that uses capacitor (which is a big weakness for Gallente). If a Caldari frigate is dumb enough to let you get into 6km (which many are) then you can neut their mods dry and win, otherwise you pretty much die. Even if you get a caldari frigate neuted dry, if he's smart he'll just kill your drones (which many don't).
Verdict: The tristan is good against other Gallente ships because it exploits their weakness (needs capacitor to fire), otherwise it suffers from a destructible weapon system with a fixed damage type.
c) Atron - Has no tank, needs cap to fire, can get killed by pretty much any Caldari frigate easily by scram range kiting (missile boats), or loses the tank+dps race (Merlin).
d) Maulus - Has a niche as a "damp you you can't lock while my drones and railguns peck you to death" ship. Even after all your drones are dead, it can slowly peck a single target to death. A decent ship for its role. Also good ewar for anti-ecm or anti-logi work. Still suffers from the fact that drones won't be able to really apply damage to a ship that is fast.
Caldari lineup:
Condor - A beast of a ship. 4 mid slots means you can have a prop mod + MSE + point + EWAR of choice (I like the td). It's a practically unneutable tackler with the utility high as well, the capless guns and the bonus to reduced warp disruptor/scram usage. It's also a better maulus in the "kite and apply dps from range role". (Tip: if damped by a maulus you cannot catch, fof's win every time as you move around his drones can't hit you much, and the fof's kill drones then force maulus off). I've seen condors pretty much solo everything in the game (including t3's).
Kestrel - Basically a slower, harder hitting condor with rainbow damage bonuses. Very good for brawling with other ships of your size, probably the best brwaler in its class.
Merlin - Suffers from using hybrids (range + cap) but if you like hybrids, has excellent bonuses and slot layout for maintaining range control and out dps + tanking your enemy.
Griffin - Hands down the most powerful ewar in the Caldari frigate class. One racial jammer can pretty much permajam your enemy.
Basically - I understand some people enjoy the RP of flying their race's ships. But please don't try and tell people that Gallente ships are a good choice (unless you are talking to a Caldari militia member, then by all means, please try to convince them to fly Gallente). |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1343
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Posted - 2013.04.27 18:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
If you want to be a pilot of questionable moral character (nanofag), you should pick Caldari or Minmatar. If you want to be a real man, pick Gallente.
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Andracin
Sickology
131
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Posted - 2013.04.27 19:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
I'd go with a turret based race first amarr/minmatar/gallente. All the gun support skills you train for one of the races also support the remaining two if you decide to cross train. Missle ships and skills primarily stick you with caldari with a few other choices in the minmatar and amarr lines, but none as extensive as the turret ships. |
Liam Inkuras
Chaotic Tranquility
Casoff
256
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Posted - 2013.04.29 03:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
Train Gallente, fit shield tank, melt faces.
Seriously though, Gallente really does shine right now in solo and small gang pvp. Their T1 frigates are exceptional, and the Atron is the beastliest fricking ship to ever fly amongst the stars. Gallente ships aren't naturally slow, it is when you start plating them and tacking on armour rigs that they become the obese.
I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
Dilbert HighSeed
Pirannha Corp
30
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Posted - 2013.04.29 06:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
Well, a ton pf different answers, as expected.
But that is good, since many people explained their reasoning.
I am still grinding out BC V before June 4th, so have some time to sort out what race to really focus on once that BC skill is learned. |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
Caldari State Capturing
405
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Posted - 2013.04.29 06:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ignore all the silly answers about this/that race/weapons performance.
Pick the race you like the looks of first and master them.
Style over substance!!
That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything. |
Aducat Ragnarson
Cult of the Black Goat
Dark Taboo
113
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Posted - 2013.04.29 09:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:Ignore all the silly answers about this/that race/weapons performance.
Pick the race you like the looks of first and master them.
Style over substance!!
^This
Every race has good ships for small gang warfare, some more and some less. However I would recommend, you just train for the race and weapon system you like and fly the ships you think look good. When you have gained a little all around knowledge you can easily crosstrain for other ships, especially as you already have BC V, Cruiser III and Frig IV for all of them. |
Balkor Wolf
101st Space Marine Force
Nulli Secunda
27
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Posted - 2013.04.29 11:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:The one with the prettiest paint jobs.
This is exactly how I choose ships to fly, I focus less on the ship's stats and more on how it looks, after all I will be spending many hours staring at it, may as well be staring at something nice ;P
Hell the whole reason I got a Nighthawk is because I love the ferox hull and the paintjob of it is beautiful, it's also the same reason I intend to train up for the widow while I've repeatedly been told to instead train for a redeemer as they are a more capable combat blackops. |
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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
784
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Posted - 2013.04.29 11:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
Gallente is manliest.
Proven fact.
BYDI (Shadow cartel) Recruitment open!
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Seraph Castillon
Justified Chaos
62
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Posted - 2013.04.29 11:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
JAF Anders wrote:Fact: chatgris has a better killboard than you do. =P
I won't argue with that. I do fly other frigate fits though, which gives me a different look at things.
chatgris wrote:Seraph Castillon wrote:
Fact: Gallente have by far the best close range brawler ships. Getting kited is not a problem when both sides are short range, which is often the case in FW lowsec.
By "short range" I assume you mean within scram range. If so, you are very wrong. Gallente have awful ships for scram range fighting when it goes up against a rocket condor, rocket kestrel, or god forbid the hookbill. Not to mention if you find something that uses neuts.
I actually wasn't talking about frigates here, but rather about those same armor cruisers. I am also fairly certain a rail Incursus is very effective at fighting scram range rocket frigs.
chatgris wrote:Seraph Castillon wrote:
Fact: Gallente/Caldari have the best T1 frigate line-up.
Also false.
I do mean both. Obviously they complement each other wonderfully. You're also selling Gallente short in your analysis of the frigate line-up. The Incursus' best fit is not the dual rep one. It can by rail or blaster fit w/ a single rep and do much better. The tristan also doesn't have to be fit with 3 neuts, a single neut will get a frigate neuted dry as well.
I'm no fan of the atron, but given it's speed it should be able to keep from getting kited in the hands of a decent pilot. |
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